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post #1 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Soon to be Doberman Puppy Owner with Questions...

Hello everyone, I am going to be getting my first Doberman puppy in about two months and I have some questions for anyone who has had experience with Dobermans. I live in Kansas City, Missouri:

1. Does anyone know of a top notch vet in this area who does a great job on cropping ears? this is my biggest fear with getting this puppy. Iíve seen some butchered ears on Dobermans before and DO NOT want that to happen to me. Iím willing to drive a little ways out and pay what itís worth to have the ears done right, and look perfect. Looking at the following link, Iím wanting the medium crop. Or maybe, slightly between the medium and the show crop. I want them to look good and be proportionate with the head and overall appearance of the dog. Hereís the link: The Doberman

2. This is where I plan to get my pup from, does anyone know, or has anyone had any experience with this kennel? DVR Kennels - Home They are located in Tennessee.

3. And last but not leastÖ..any suggestions on an intimidating name? Iíve searched all over and just havenít seen many names that seem to hit me just right. The ones I have so far are Justice, Tank, and Duke. Duke doesnít sound that intimidating to me, but Iím starting to get stuck on it for some reason.
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post #2 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 03:09 PM
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Me personally would not opt for a puppy from this kennel. No mention of health testing or titling of parents. Good breeders take care of the cropping for you and it is included in the cost of the puppy, not an "extra" charge. I'd pass. Do some research on this forum about purchasing a puppy from a reputable breeder. And go from there. Good luck on finding a puppy.
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post #3 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by G-Rod View Post
Hello everyone, I am going to be getting my first Doberman puppy in about two months and I have some questions for anyone who has had experience with Dobermans. I live in Kansas City, Missouri:

1. Does anyone know of a top notch vet in this area who does a great job on cropping ears? this is my biggest fear with getting this puppy. Iíve seen some butchered ears on Dobermans before and DO NOT want that to happen to me. Iím willing to drive a little ways out and pay what itís worth to have the ears done right, and look perfect. Looking at the following link, Iím wanting the medium crop. Or maybe, slightly between the medium and the show crop. I want them to look good and be proportionate with the head and overall appearance of the dog. Hereís the link: The Doberman

2. This is where I plan to get my pup from, does anyone know, or has anyone had any experience with this kennel? DVR Kennels - Home They are located in Tennessee.

3. And last but not leastÖ..any suggestions on an intimidating name? Iíve searched all over and just havenít seen many names that seem to hit me just right. The ones I have so far are Justice, Tank, and Duke. Duke doesnít sound that intimidating to me, but Iím starting to get stuck on it for some reason.

Well all I can say is that it wouldn't be a breeder I'd be interested in when all they can say about their stud is that "he's got nice structure and is big boned". No testing no nothing. I'd say find another breeder or suffer the consequences most of us have by not doing our research ahead of time. You can read my story if you'd like... yeah it's not about dobes but about not doing your homework the first time.
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post #4 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 03:15 PM
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This does not appear to be a reputable kennel, I would look elsewhere...


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post #5 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 03:22 PM
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I would look elsewhere for a puppy. Not only is there no mention of health testing outside vWD, they just purchased a KIMBERTAL puppy to use as a stud in future. BARF.

Please please look elsewhere. Your litter isn't even going to be AKC registered, its with the Continental Kennel Club which will register ANYTHING. They're probably charging the same amount of money for this litter as if it were an AKC litter.

Personally, I would never pay money for a puppy from a place like this.

I like Duke though, Duke is a pretty tough name.

You should contact OldDrumDobermans; she's an INCREDIBLE breeder and is located in Missouri if I'm thinking correctly. I would rather sit on her waiting list and *pray* that she deemed me worthy of one of her puppies than get a pup that will more than likely develop into a poor specimen from a breeder such as who you are considering now.

No responsible breeder would ever send puppies home before getting them cropped (unless the owner wants natural ears). It's much too risky to leave this procedure up to the new owners, as they most likely wont find a decent, experienced cropper who will also help them with posting and anti-infection measures.

Please please don't get a puppy from these kennels. She doesn't test for DCM (dilated Cardiomyopathy, which can show up in dogs as young as 5 months, and as old as 14+ years), PHPv (eyes), Hips (OFA/Penhip) for Hip dysplasia, etc.

This breed is a terribly expensive one to own even without any of the genetic diseases or common disorders in the breed, so be sure that the puppy you are purchasing has the best chance at a long, happy and healthy life by getting said pup from HEALTH TESTED parents.

Good luck.

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post #6 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 03:25 PM
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Yes I agree about Old Drum Dobermans. You can google the name to find her website. She is a Doberman Talk forum member who has answered my questions in the past, just a lovely lady. She is fairly close to you.

Kansa Dobermans in Wichita is also fairly close to you.


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post #7 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 03:32 PM
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I'd run far away from that kennel. There are red flags all over the place -- no health testing, no titling, hardly a health guarantee, no valuable information about the dogs, etc. When choosing a Doberman breeder, it is absolutely essential to make certain that the breeder is health testing and titling their dogs. Dobes are a breed that have some pretty serious health issues, and while purchasing a dog from a reputable breeder doesn't guarantee that your dog will live a long healthy problem free life, it greatly increases the chances. Make sure that any breeder you choose checks for hips, thyroid, and cardio at the very least. Titling is important because it's a way of proving the dog's temperament and structure. I know a lot of people don't care that their puppy's parents were shown and recieved a championship, because they're only looking for a pet, but it is important. It's one way of proving that the dog is perhaps worthy of being bred someday, it proves the dog's structure, and a dog needs to have a good temperament in order to be in a show ring filled with other dogs they don't know and to allow a judge to examine them. Obedience, Agility, and working titles are also a good thing for the sire and dam to have.

A breeder should also have a guarantee against any congenital health issues for life, IMO. Ex: If one of the dogs my breeder has bred suddenly drops dead of cardiomyopathy at 7 years old, she'll replace that dog.

Cropping is also something you don't have to worry about when purchasing a dog from a reputable breeder. A reputable breeder has their puppies cropped by an experienced cropping vet and allows the ears to heal before the puppies head off to their new homes. That way all the owner has to worry about is posting the puppy's ears.

I'm so glad that you've found Dobermantalk and I hope the members here will be able to help you in your search for a Doberman puppy. It'll be well worth the wait to have a puppy from a good breeder.



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post #8 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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well thanks for the replies everyone, that was quick. here is my only issue with some of the breeders that i've found around here in missouri, they all want $1,500+ for a dob. I've done searched every place around KC. I simply just can't afford to put out that much money on a pet. if I was rich, I would do it in a heartbeat, but I live paycheck to paycheck as it is.
does anyone know of a better place to get a good dob for less than $1,500?
And still, if I were to end up with one that doesn't have the ears cropped, any recommendations on where I could go to have that done with superb quality?
Yeah, I'm glad I came across this site too....I've already found alot of helpful info!
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post #9 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 03:59 PM
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Check out Old Drum Dobes. As far as names go, Thor, Maximus, Raider, there are lots of tuff names out there.

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post #10 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rod View Post
well thanks for the replies everyone, that was quick. here is my only issue with some of the breeders that i've found around here in missouri, they all want $1,500+ for a dob. I've done searched every place around KC. I simply just can't afford to put out that much money on a pet. if I was rich, I would do it in a heartbeat, but I live paycheck to paycheck as it is.
does anyone know of a better place to get a good dob for less than $1,500?
And still, if I were to end up with one that doesn't have the ears cropped, any recommendations on where I could go to have that done with superb quality?
Yeah, I'm glad I came across this site too....I've already found alot of helpful info!
I would then save my money until I could afford a puppy from a reputable breeder. I would either buy from a reputable breeder or go to rescue. But you also need to understand that this is a fairly expensive breed to own; health wise, training and good fences etc.

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post #11 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rod View Post
well thanks for the replies everyone, that was quick. here is my only issue with some of the breeders that i've found around here in missouri, they all want $1,500+ for a dob. I've done searched every place around KC. I simply just can't afford to put out that much money on a pet. if I was rich, I would do it in a heartbeat, but I live paycheck to paycheck as it is.
does anyone know of a better place to get a good dob for less than $1,500?
And still, if I were to end up with one that doesn't have the ears cropped, any recommendations on where I could go to have that done with superb quality?
Yeah, I'm glad I came across this site too....I've already found alot of helpful info!

Purchasing a doberman from a place like that will cost you a hell of a lot more then $1,500.

Owning a dog generally will cost a hell of a lot more then $1,500.

It doesn't sound like you're ready to be a dog owner, at least not a Doberman owner.

I've been researching for two years... reading this board... I make good money and still don't think I'm ready to take on the financial responsibility to take on a Dobe.

Good luck.
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post #12 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 04:03 PM
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Do you have a cash reserve ready for if this puppy has health problems? You said you live pay check to pay check are you sure you're going to be able to handle the responsiblity of a dober pup? I don't mean sound like I'm scolding you. I'm just telling you from experience, getting a pup from a non reputable breeder is a big mistake and in the end it's better to pay 1,500 for a healthy puppy.

I lost my girl before she was even a year old because of it and I'm still paying off the vet bills...

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post #13 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rod View Post
well thanks for the replies everyone, that was quick. here is my only issue with some of the breeders that i've found around here in missouri, they all want $1,500+ for a dob. I've done searched every place around KC. I simply just can't afford to put out that much money on a pet. if I was rich, I would do it in a heartbeat, but I live paycheck to paycheck as it is.
does anyone know of a better place to get a good dob for less than $1,500?
And still, if I were to end up with one that doesn't have the ears cropped, any recommendations on where I could go to have that done with superb quality?
Yeah, I'm glad I came across this site too....I've already found alot of helpful info!
Price is a major factor for a lot of people, I understand that. My family is far from wealthy, but we still managed to pay $1200 for Keira and $1250 for Dance (my Toller). We saved money up until we had enough for the initial cost. You might find a puppy for $600 or $800 from a non-reputable breeder, but you'll still have to fork out another $500 or more for a good crop... so you really don't save anything in the end. Not to mention the potential for other problems that may or may not pop up as a result of not getting the dog from a good breeder.

I don't want to sound holier than thou -- aside from the 3 dogs I have now, and two we adopted from rescue organizations, all of my past dogs weren't from good breeders. And all but one of those dogs died before they reached 5 years old. The one who did live a long life had a horrendous temperament and horrid structural issues. My family learned the hard way.



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post #14 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 04:10 PM
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Have you considered looking for a rescue doberman? There are always lots of dobies of varying ages, both cropped and uncropped, who need a home. They are always spayed/neuteredm UTD on worming, vaccinations and heartworm meds, and have been evaulated to find out what kind of home would be best for them. And, with an older dobe, you get to miss out on the "fun" puppy stages of chewing, potty training, etc. Maybe rescue might be the way to go. If you really want a puppy, research, save your money, and go from there. Old Drum Dobermans and Kansa are fantastic folks. Why not get in contact with either or both of them. I'd be willing to bet they would be more than happy to discuss dobermans with you and help you get a well bred, healthy puppy that would be right for you. Good Luck!
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post #15 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 04:32 PM
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If you're looking at spending less than $1000 on the initial purchase you should definitely go for a rescue dog! Most rescues do temperament testing and will be able to tell you which dogs are good with cats/kids etc.

It also takes the potty training and initial expense of puppyhood out of the equation.

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There are so many dobes looking for a home. By supporting the breeder you're currently looking into, you're just confirming to her that its OK to keep adding to this rescue problem by breeding her unhealth tested, untitled dogs. Why can't she just spay them and keep them as lovely family pets? Greed, that's ALL.

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post #16 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 06:01 PM
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I agree with everything above. If you can't afford to get a doberman from a good breeder (which that one is not) then rescue instead.

One thing to consider is that you will save money on the ear cropping by purchasing from most good breeders, the ears will already be done FOR you, and done WELL, even if it meant that breeder had to have them done by someone from the other end of the country.

And I agree with any puppy of any breed you also need to be prepared for disasters, most often in the form of eating something completely inedible and objectionable.

I notice that breeder also has all 4 colors and prices differently according to color. I don't know if you have a specific color in mind, but if you are considering either a blue or a fawn you should google doberman cda and verse yourself on it. You just need to be educated before making the decision. Although if you do end up going to a good breeder your chances will dramatically decrease of being able to find a dilute anyway.

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post #17 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 08:51 PM
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wow, I spent thirty seconds on that site and exxed it out. Main reason? they link to Kimbertal Kennels. I didn't bother going to any other page after I saw that.

Other than that, I agree with what everyone else has said on Rescuing, on the costs of dobermans, and that you get what you pay for with cheaper puppies. My silly self bought from a back yard breeder - before i was DT-savvy - and have been very lucky to have a happy, healthy, beautiful girl. I can give you names of many people here who have not been so lucky.



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post #18 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 09:36 PM
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Rescue. Rescue. Rescue.

Look at my blog. We have been rescued (six times) by the best Dobermans ever. They never fail to amaze us.

While you are out puppy shopping, remember the abandoned ones that are sitting in kennels, hoping someone will notice how much they need a friend.

I worry that you want help with an intimidating name. You could name your male Doberman "Fifi", and he would still answer with a majestic step, a regal presence, and a willingness to protect.

Take your time.
A Doberman is a terrible thing to waste.

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post #19 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 09:50 PM
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You seem like a very smart person. You were wise enough to come on this forum and do your research . PLEASE listen to all the great advice you have been given. Also, since you stated you live from paycheck to paycheck, please take a look at my vet bills thus far in the year 2009 and we still have 7 weeks to go!!! Note that I have 2 Dobermans from great breeders - these were simply routine care items that MUST be done or illnesses/injuries that can easily happen when you have a Doberman.

Bella

1) leg injury = $780 at the emergency vet)

2) bladder infection (staff) that was extremely difficult to diagnose for a while so
lots of tests have been done and had to do additional test to finally find the
antibiotic it would respond to (very expensive drug, of course) = $350 and
counting because we will do another urinalysis at the end of drug therapy

3) possible thyroid problems (more tests to be done when her bladder infection is
cleared up) = $150 and counting

4) annual heartworm prevention + annual heartworm/Ehrlichia test + vaccine titers so we can go to training class = $180

Zen

#4 above + Ehrlichia treatment + neuter + current eye injury from getting a large seed burr embedded underneath his 3rd eyelid = $900+ and counting (eye is not fully healed and must be rechecked)

The point is that the initial cost of the dog is peanuts compared to the long-term cost and that is not a joke. Are you sure you are ready for ownership? Waiting and saving your money for the initial investment + an emergency fund might be a really good approach to it.

P.S. You can do the total costs above because I might break down if I have to do it. Although I have pet insurance on both of them, it does not cover routine care (titers, vaccines, neuter, etc.) and it does not cover 100%. Also, I have to pay first and then file a claim.

Extra P.S. Note that this list does NOT INCLUDE good food, crate, health insurance, toys, treats, beds, collars & leashes, coats, flea/tick prevention, etc.

Final P.S. You could definitely drive a nice sports car for the same monthly cost as a Doberman.

THE BOONDOGGLE
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post #20 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 10:13 PM
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Even a free Doberman can put you in the poorhouse. The vet bills are not cheap for routine care, and downright devastating for emergency care.
As my brother always reminds me: "You are going to go broke from all those 'free' Dobermans!"

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post #21 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by triciakoontz View Post
You seem like a very smart person. You were wise enough to come on this forum and do your research . PLEASE listen to all the great advice you have been given. Also, since you stated you live from paycheck to paycheck, please take a look at my vet bills thus far in the year 2009 and we still have 7 weeks to go!!! Note that I have 2 Dobermans from great breeders - these were simply routine care items that MUST be done or illnesses/injuries that can easily happen when you have a Doberman.

Bella

1) leg injury = $780 at the emergency vet)

2) bladder infection (staff) that was extremely difficult to diagnose for a while so
lots of tests have been done and had to do additional test to finally find the
antibiotic it would respond to (very expensive drug, of course) = $350 and
counting because we will do another urinalysis at the end of drug therapy

3) possible thyroid problems (more tests to be done when her bladder infection is
cleared up) = $150 and counting

4) annual heartworm prevention + annual heartworm/Ehrlichia test + vaccine titers so we can go to training class = $180

Zen

#4 above + Ehrlichia treatment + neuter + current eye injury from getting a large seed burr embedded underneath his 3rd eyelid = $900+ and counting (eye is not fully healed and must be rechecked)

The point is that the initial cost of the dog is peanuts compared to the long-term cost and that is not a joke. Are you sure you are ready for ownership? Waiting and saving your money for the initial investment + an emergency fund might be a really good approach to it.

P.S. You can do the total costs above because I might break down if I have to do it. Although I have pet insurance on both of them, it does not cover routine care (titers, vaccines, neuter, etc.) and it does not cover 100%. Also, I have to pay first and then file a claim.

Extra P.S. Note that this list does NOT INCLUDE good food, crate, health insurance, toys, treats, beds, collars & leashes, coats, flea/tick prevention, etc.

Final P.S. You could definitely drive a nice sports car for the same monthly cost as a Doberman.
Have to agree. If I added up all my vet bills for this year, I'd probably have a massive coronary and die LOL, and I didn't have any emergent type bills. I just don't think about it. Plus when I think about the food, toys, treats, shampoo, Paco Collars/Leashes, beds, dremel sanding drums, apparently I work only to support my dogs. Oh well, there are worse things in life . But it is definately something you have to keep in mind. Things happen, animals get hurt and they must have medical attention when they do. Make sure you can afford it before you take on that responsibility. What if you dog suffers a broken bone? That is unbelieveably painful. Can you look at those eyes knowing how much pain they are in and shrug your shoulders and say "Oh well, I can't afford to take you to the vet?" And that goes for any animal.
Dawn
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post #22 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-12-2009, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FairSky View Post
wow, I spent thirty seconds on that site and exxed it out. Main reason? they link to Kimbertal Kennels. I didn't bother going to any other page after I saw that.

Other than that, I agree with what everyone else has said on Rescuing, on the costs of dobermans, and that you get what you pay for with cheaper puppies. My silly self bought from a back yard breeder - before i was DT-savvy - and have been very lucky to have a happy, healthy, beautiful girl. I can give you names of many people here who have not been so lucky.

I've seen a couple people bring up that this place I was looking at is linked to Kimbertal Kennels, what's so bad about them?
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post #23 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-12-2009, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
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Everyone sure is being helpful, I appreciate it. I've never been on a forum where I've gotten this many responses in this short amount of time. Thanks.
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post #24 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-12-2009, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rod View Post
I've seen a couple people bring up that this place I was looking at is linked to Kimbertal Kennels, what's so bad about them?
They are the single most infamous back yard/commercial breeder of dobermans in this country. Use the search feather on this forum, they have been discussed AT LENGTH. You can read all about them.

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post #25 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-12-2009, 09:30 AM
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In my search for a pup I didn't even see a single pup for less then $1,500 except for one breeder who charged $1,200 if the ears were left natural, if they cropped it was $1,500... I didn't go with that breeder.
What they are charging is extremely low, which I am sure seems like a plus right now... Unless this breeder is extremely wealthy and is basically eating all the cost of care for the pups and their mom, they are not giving adequate care for the pups. This could be extremely expensive for you from the first trip to the vet. and what is with the $100 difference in the price of the puppies? is it by color?
I would also definitely go with a breeder that handles the ear cropping before you get the pup. I have not had a cropped doberman yet and I am constantly researching different posting techniques, common problems, watching videos etc. because I am stressed I will screw that up. I would not be able to deal with the immediate post surgery care, and I think most people who are new to it would struggle as well. It is also difficult to find a vet that is great with a crop, you need to do a lot of research, see pictures of their past work etc. A good breeder should know who is good, I would be even more worried about this breeder if they cant give you a reference for a good vet to crop. The cost of a crop is usually over $300 I believe, so keep that in mind.
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