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Please help me with "Nova"

5K views 53 replies 19 participants last post by  falnfenix 
#1 ·
Hi guys. My GF and I need guidance bigtime with our 6month old girl "Nova". We love her to death and walk her all the time, she socializes with other people and dogs and does well. I have a 1/2 acre of property that she is free to roam and we hav play time everyday. When I am working she has the couch to herself and is very good in the house. She will steal a sock but never damages or swallows them. No furniture or sofa is ever touched. The problem is she does not come to you when you call her. She will stare at you from a distance and a lot of times will sit and stare while you call her. When told to sit, paw or lay NP at all! But she will not come to you. We say it in a soft voice, she knows she is not in trouble but it doesn't happen! She has come to us in the past is we have a treat in our hand or start playing with one of her toys. Yesterday she got out of the yard and started to run around in the front of my property and the neighbor's. The good thing is she did not run away but she would not come to us at all. She crossed the street multiple times to say hello to the neighbor which scared the hell out of us. After 15 minutes I finally grabbed her and had to drag her in house. Are we expecting to much from a 6 month old?? Is she being stubborn?? When calling her she isn't trying for us to chase her and her tail is not down like she is scared.

The Good:
She knows and listens to SIT, PAW and LAY.
Wonderful with other people, dogs and kids.
Very affectionate and loving
Doesn't touch anything in house

The Bad:
Will not come to you not matter how hard we try.

Please help!
 
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#3 ·
Hi, My GF is excellent with the "Praises" when she does finally come (which is rare and takes forever). I have been thinking about the classes but do not know of any quality ones on Long Island, I need to research this. What could POSSIBLY be the reason she would sit and stare at us when we are calling her? It is weird. Her head is straight up , she knows she isn't in trouble, she isn't distracting with anything else. She just stares;
 
#6 ·
We train our puppy owners to utilize chase as part of recall when they're younger. Puppies WANT to chase you. Be super exciting, run away from them, and praise the heck out of them when they come to you.

Once puppies are a little older, I train with a long line. Call pup, then reel them in. Praise the heck out of them and send them back out to play/sniff/do whatever. Make sure calling them to you isn't always resulting in the end of playtime.

When pups are very young, I use their meals when training this - when they're older, go with higher value treats or toys.
 
#15 ·
We train our puppy owners to utilize chase as part of recall when they're younger. Puppies WANT to chase you. Be super exciting, run away from them, and praise the heck out of them when they come to you.

Once puppies are a little older, I train with a long line. Call pup, then reel them in. Praise the heck out of them and send them back out to play/sniff/do whatever. Make sure calling them to you isn't always resulting in the end of playtime.

When pups are very young, I use their meals when training this - when they're older, go with higher value treats or toys.
This part in bold is the KEY to good recall. When you train, most people make the mistake that when they call "come", it means the end of the fun the dog was having. They quickly learn that they do NOT want to "come" because it's a "bad" thing. When you train recall, it should almost never mean their fun ends. When I train recall, I nearly always send them back to what they are doing early on. And I NEVER use recall for something the dog doesn't like - not "come" to get a bath, "come" to get your nails done, etc. "Come" should be FUN!

I'd start over with your training, and use a new word. With puppies (and many adults), starting by running away works really well, because chasing is fun!

I'd also recommend a class or trainer to help you. You've "poisoned" the command and you need to train it differently.
 
#7 ·
I would work with her on a long line and with uber wonderful treats.

Things to do. Never call a puppy who isn't already on their way to you.
If she won't come and you must get her in try running away--most puppies will think this is a game and will run after you--have high value treats to give her when she reaches you.
Never grab at her collar if you are trying to catch her.
Never end outside time by calling her and instantly taking her inside--many dogs learn (as puppies) to not come because it means the end of play time. Start practicing while on leash or a long line calling her and then initiating more play time.
Some puppies will come to investigate if you lay down and don't move.

Find a beginning obedience class and I'd recommend one listed as beginning Obedience trial training--those trainers tend to have more in their bag of training tricks that trainers who train for "household" obedience.

Personally I never call a puppy who is out alone. But I rarely let a puppy out alone--and I've been doing recalls using all of the above techniques for getting the puppy to me since he came home.

I go with treats in hand to where the puppy is and hand them a treat and invite them to come with me for more.

And over a lot of years with Dobermans I really don't expect really good and prompt recalls at six months--and I don't think they are really reliable until well over a year. Puppy brains are way too responsive to distractions that look more exciting than coming for a treat.

And finally some puppies are more responsive to the lure of a favored toy than any kind of treat.

Good luck--she's just young and keep working at it under controlled situations. A structured class really helps both you and her.

dobebug
 
#21 · (Edited)
Some puppies will come to investigate if you lay down and don't move.....
Another thing that might work in an emergency is to whoop invitingly (Yippee! Look, look, look at me) and run AWAY from the puppy. That might trigger her to play chase with you and at least get her away from the danger area.

If she's looking at you or you can get her attention, you can pretend to discover something on the ground, pick it up and look at it, or pretend to eat something. Make your actions big, bold and excited so that she really gets curious. That's more for a dog who is wandering around slowly keeping half an eye on you than one who is charging off into the distance.


...Personally I never call a puppy who is out alone. But I rarely let a puppy out alone--and I've been doing recalls using all of the above techniques for getting the puppy to me since he came home.

I go with treats in hand to where the puppy is and hand them a treat and invite them to come with me for more.
Yup...If I need to end a play session, or do something the dog might not like much, I go get the dog (with a treat if possible), and snap on the leash. I make a practice during ordinary play time of intermittently calling the dog to me and then encouraging her to leave again, or coming up with a new activity that she will enjoy (like fetch, for example. Dog comes, you praise and then throw the ball.)

When you call her, praise--happy, happy, joy, bounce--throw a party--when she is moving toward you (even if it is 5 minutes later and you're pissed with her)--never yell or act angry if the dog is heading your way.
 
#8 ·
Over the years , I have found that this a problem with Dobermans - I call it CRN = Can't remember there Name ! Oh yeah - Kasia was the queen of just looking at you like - You talking to me ? Even Mr. Business gets this every once in a while .

I like Greenie's reply with working with OB . I had Mr. B to , two different OB classes and that was a game changer with him , I know things are much different now :frown3: But Like LDi said - there are on line classes you can take and study .

What really helped Mr. B was teaching him on a lead to sit , stay , Front , Front with a come to me - started out with a short lead and then I kept making it longer and longer - I had him sit and stay then walk back 20 feet then call him to front . And as the great posters on here said - High value treats work . When Mr. is goofing around - all I have to do is say treat time and he's hauling it to the door .

I did have a major call off the other day when the neighbors dog came over and I couldn't call him off . We are working on that now .

The best foundation is good training - that is where it all starts - But even with that - Like I said about , they will forget there names .

Maybe look on you tube for some good videos on training - even maybe some on Rally OB .

One last thing , I promise :grin2: She is 6 months old and still tons of puppy left in her ! I have also came across that age group that they hit a road block on training - I had to shorten my classes here at home with them .

Best of luck ! You will get it , just keep at it :2smile:

Doc
 
#9 ·
Thank you for the idea's. We used little cookies and will try better stuff for treats. She was in a long line yesterday and would not come, just sat and stared. We will work on the training, I also ordered a prong collar as well like a lot of you recommended on this site. She has a regular collar right now.
 
#10 · (Edited)
#11 ·
Liverwurst is also high value for treats. What I have done is work with two people one person is a little further away not much one person holds the dog loosely facing the other person the person with out the dog calls dog's name come clapping yeah yeahing as soon as dog come jackpot (a lot) of high value treats. Turn dog around and repeat do this several times a day. Increase space between two people hope this helps
 
#12 · (Edited)
I train my pups (had girls, since 1977) all off-leash with zero treats...I want 100% recall, living on a busy Hwy.
- I've retrained treated dogs before, that are not reliable / from other local Pet training schools

Since our pups are 10 weeks old, they get to help mom take one of Dads old socks, out of the dryer & deliver it back to the bed room.
- our Dobes bed is a Leather sectional (during the day) & in the Master bed at night

I train with Voice Pitch (from baby soft to Loud) / Hand Signals / Whistle recall sometimes, if I'm hiding / and establishing a Strong Bond.
- even in bed, I will rub dogs tail nub (relaxing her) & belly very soft rubs...till Dad falls asleep
- recall is all about Bond, Love & Respect...in your Leadership
^^ When lacking some, perfect recall is Fruitless to expect @ a young age.
- and our former Amy, was fully OB trained @ 6 months young, via city street walking off-leash...but she had the desire to please, on Day3 home with us
- all pups are different

Our current dog, was a most Stubborn girl, with insane Red Zone Prey Drive...from 10 weeks old.
- she was the real challenge, for me // and humbled Dad, many times
- getting through her Frenzy state with hackles up and K9 teeth mouth Frothing ...as a pup
- even riding in my truck, she would attack the side window...seeing a new mom pushing a baby carriage...just insane, early on

Now all is very well here - every time we went outside on the front porch / she got neck scratches, hand massages, inside ear rubs, etc. // soon I was training her to Recall, as she returned to lap up my hand & voice attention...even without dog knowing, an
Organic Training secession was in progress.
- our Bond became bullet proof // and now I can call her easily off, a skunk / bunny / squirrel / etc....just several yards away
- right in her tracks, If I order her to STOP...she gets it now
- she is not afraid, if I have to yell like a Drill Sargent...when the last skunk was under our bird feeder, in the black of night...had to avoid than spray encounter, real quick
- I taught her that we both respect each other // and If Dad is yelling, obviously her Safety is in Danger
- so this style of Co-Dependence, get the win-win here...and the rest, finally became easy
- I have always trained, for a mild form of Separation Anxiety (SA)....non destructive, of coarse & I become critical worthy enough in dogs life, to please their Master
 

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#16 ·
Awesome guys, really cool of all of you. I am trying to think of a new work to replace come, what should it be? Also, this is our fault but one of you asked what did we do when she didn't come when being on a line. My GF would sit on the grass like she was ready to play but Nova still wont not come over. So after about 10 min we would give up and walk away which obviously is not good. Wht should have we done? Walk towards her??
 
#17 ·
Alternatives to the "come" cue are "here", "close", "to me", "come" in a different language (French, maybe), or just about anything else that's easy to holler over a distance and that doesn't sound like any of your other cues. I save "front" for a formal obedience recall, but that's another option.

I'm going to try training my dogs a whistle recall, even though they are rarely allowed off lead (no safe places for it around here).
 
#19 ·
#22 ·
I have taken two of my dogs to AKC Obedience Champions.
Long line training does wonders, most of the time when a dog does not intuitively respond to a command it is because they do not know what they are expected to do.
Start with 25 to 50 feet of parachute cord attach it to collar, parachute cord is very light and produces minimal drag.
Put your dog in sit stay back off 10 or 15 feet to start then a simultaneous COME command and slight tug on the cord, if she doesn't move keep the pressure on the cord and show the treat.
It goes without saying lavish praise during the whole time she is coming.
 
#24 ·
EWWWW. *I* think it's gross. My husband and the dogs are welcome to fight over it! :grin2: (He's pretty much 100% German!)
 
#25 · (Edited)
A little story:

Years ago I was training my boy off leash in a large fenced field. There was a guy training his pup on leash on the other side the field.

I was working on Sit... Stay... Come. I'd put my boy in a "Sit". Command "Stay", and walk quite a distance away. After brief time I would call him. He would come and sit right in front of me. Rinse and Repeat may a half dozen times.

Eventually the other guy came over and asked how I trained him to come with such success. He was having a terrible time teaching recall to his young dog

I told him something like: Consistency, patience and short regular dedicated training periods works for me.

He asked "Is that it"? I smiled and said "Almost"... and pulled a baggie out of my pocket.

"Bacon... my dogs will do anything for bacon!" LOL

John Lichtwardt
Portland OR
 
#27 ·
Ha ha, braunschweiger is quite literally the only way I will voluntarily eat liver. And I don't share with the dogs. It's mine, all MINE!

And yeah, I might have just a *touch* of resource guarding when it comes to braunschweiger. :roflmao:
 
#29 ·
Ok guys, hello to everyone, quick update. I have been training her in the house and she is doing EXCELLENT. she will sit, stay and come to me in the hallways of the house. I just strated using the prong collar yesterday and that is going very well so far. I brought her in the backyard to do some traning for the day and it was impossible. All she wanted to do was play. She would run and run, not listen for anything. So I played with her for like 30 min but still did not want to listen, even took the ball. No help.
 
#30 ·
Hi Gnfanatic,

You need to bear in mind that the first rule in dog training is that dogs do not generalize well.

This always comes as a total shock to new trainers when the dog they have doing everything like 'sit, stay, down, come" are perfect in the house but the minute they take the dog to a class or anyplace except the house the dog is an amazing embarrassment who appears to have never heard any of these commands.

The answer to this particular problem is to keep the dog on leash. Start slowly take the dog to someplace familiar (like the back yard) and start the training process all over there--as if the dogs knew nothing--when the dog knows and responds to the training and the commands in both the house and the yard--move out to the driveway or the sidewalk in front of the house--rinse and repeat.

When I'm training a dog for competition in Obedience or Rally I spend far more time taking the dog places he's never been and working him there through his commands. Eventually they 'get' that sit means sit no matter where you are.

Getting the dog in a class is helpful to further the training process.

Good luck--and have fun while you are doing it.

dobebug
 
#32 ·
In addition to what Bug said, three things we talk about often in dog training are Distance, Duration, and Distraction.

Dogs (and puppies especially!), are going to struggle each time you increase the distance you work at, the duration of a behavior that you expect, and the amount of distraction around them. When you go from inside the house (low distraction), to outdoors, you've MASSIVELY increased the amount of distraction! That means you really, really need to DECREASE the duration of the behavior you expect, and the distance away you are from the dog in order to get success. The three things all work together. So, if a dog can hold a "down" for 30 seconds indoors with you 2 feet away, she may only be able to do it for 5 seconds when outdoors with you 1 foot away, because the distraction level has gone WAY up (you need to decrease both distance (away from her) and duration expected, because of the very high level of distraction! And some behaviors may simply not be possible because they aren't trained enough yet.

Setting reasonable expectations and setting your dog up to succeed are really important.

If you haven't been in any group classes yet, I find them really, really important. Because of the pandemic, you may not be able to right now. If you can, I would! If you can't, I'd look into whether you can find an online class right now. Having a good trainer to support and guide you is SO important. We have some great online puppy classes I can recommend near me (it wouldn't matter that you aren't local, because they are online :) ). There are some other good online resources, too. If you haven't found your way to Kikopup's training channel, it's a good free resource. The Fenzi Academy is good. But I would definitely look for just a good, basic training class to get you started.
 
#41 ·
I absolutely agree, MeadowCat--since 1959 I've trained a lot of puppies ad adult dogs in a lot of things and with every new dog I have to remind myself that my young dog can't read my mind and I have to start slowly and make every minute of training count by being overjoyed with any and all progress.

I'm no better than the beginning trainers in expecting too much too soon from puppies and it's tempting to do this particularly with Dobes because they are so responsive and smart they pick up stuff faster than many other breeds. But there are simply some things that don't happen quickly and it's in your interest and that of your dog to keep that in mind.

dobebug
 
#33 ·
My suggestion is this, set your dog up for success.
Like right now you know you can accomplish basic sit-down,stays,come while inside the house.
Thats great !
Now while remaining inside the house work with use of repetition,repetition,repetition, bond with your pup during these sessions.
Just this creates a strong relationship and bond.
As time goes by this loyalty will evolve into a desire to please you. So teaching becomes easier for you and your pup as you grow together.
Seriously going outside for a young pup can be quite distracting because shoot its exciting and new.
Just like little human kids we encourage them in special ways when they please us so identify what your dog LOVES the most and that the reward.
Might be food....might be a toy, whatever the dog loves the most.
Dogs will do just about anything if its worth it, so, make it worth it.
Only the owners will know what those things are that motivate our dogs the best.
Hold tight before going outside for training.
Sometimes repetition is the only way to for us “the humans” to know .. ......that the dog truly understands what is expected or him/or her.
Once you the human really senses that The dog understands the task thats when you take baby steps as Dobebug was mentioning when proceeding outside.
So much fun to have a pup around hoping to hear from you again soon.
 
#34 ·
Thank guys, I am still looking into class options as well. You are definitely right about distractions out doors. She hears everything and anything, pretty amazing! I will start training with the leash outside and see how it goes. BTW, the prong collar is only for stopping a dog from pulling when walking or can you use it for all sorts of training?
 
#35 ·
I personally don't prefer a prong on a puppy.

I use it to walk adults. I don't use it for any other kind of training. I find it so much more successful to show a dog what you want them TO do instead of simply correcting them for what you don't want them to do. Additionally, it's really unfair to a dog to correct them for a behavior they haven't learned how to perform. A puppy has NOT learned behaviors yet.

You'll have a happy, engaged dog who wants to learn if you use reward based training right now to reinforce the behaviors you like. Using corrections early on can really shut down a puppy and hinder your training.
 
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