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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
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Please help me with "Nova"

Hi guys. My GF and I need guidance bigtime with our 6month old girl "Nova". We love her to death and walk her all the time, she socializes with other people and dogs and does well. I have a 1/2 acre of property that she is free to roam and we hav play time everyday. When I am working she has the couch to herself and is very good in the house. She will steal a sock but never damages or swallows them. No furniture or sofa is ever touched. The problem is she does not come to you when you call her. She will stare at you from a distance and a lot of times will sit and stare while you call her. When told to sit, paw or lay NP at all! But she will not come to you. We say it in a soft voice, she knows she is not in trouble but it doesn't happen! She has come to us in the past is we have a treat in our hand or start playing with one of her toys. Yesterday she got out of the yard and started to run around in the front of my property and the neighbor's. The good thing is she did not run away but she would not come to us at all. She crossed the street multiple times to say hello to the neighbor which scared the hell out of us. After 15 minutes I finally grabbed her and had to drag her in house. Are we expecting to much from a 6 month old?? Is she being stubborn?? When calling her she isn't trying for us to chase her and her tail is not down like she is scared.

The Good:
She knows and listens to SIT, PAW and LAY.
Wonderful with other people, dogs and kids.
Very affectionate and loving
Doesn't touch anything in house

The Bad:
Will not come to you not matter how hard we try.

Please help!
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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 08:46 AM
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I know it sounds obvious but try more treats and more verbal praise. Make it a PARTY for her when she comes to you or does the behavior you're asking her for. Have you considered taking a puppy obedience class with her? I would really encourage that.
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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenkouki View Post
I know it sounds obvious but try more treats and more verbal praise. Make it a PARTY for her when she comes to you or does the behavior you're asking her for. Have you considered taking a puppy obedience class with her? I would really encourage that.
Hi, My GF is excellent with the "Praises" when she does finally come (which is rare and takes forever). I have been thinking about the classes but do not know of any quality ones on Long Island, I need to research this. What could POSSIBLY be the reason she would sit and stare at us when we are calling her? It is weird. Her head is straight up , she knows she isn't in trouble, she isn't distracting with anything else. She just stares;
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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 09:19 AM
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What kind of treats are you using? Use something like hot dogs, string cheese, etc. not dog cookies.
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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 09:21 AM
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Try online classes Fenzi Dog sports academy .
You will learn so much and never have to leave your house to practice.
Plus you will learn through your fellow classmates experiences and questions.
Recently i completed nosework classes, learned things that were not presented in my other classes.
Try it you will like it!
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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 09:23 AM
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We train our puppy owners to utilize chase as part of recall when they're younger. Puppies WANT to chase you. Be super exciting, run away from them, and praise the heck out of them when they come to you.

Once puppies are a little older, I train with a long line. Call pup, then reel them in. Praise the heck out of them and send them back out to play/sniff/do whatever. Make sure calling them to you isn't always resulting in the end of playtime.

When pups are very young, I use their meals when training this - when they're older, go with higher value treats or toys.
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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 09:28 AM
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I would work with her on a long line and with uber wonderful treats.

Things to do. Never call a puppy who isn't already on their way to you.
If she won't come and you must get her in try running away--most puppies will think this is a game and will run after you--have high value treats to give her when she reaches you.
Never grab at her collar if you are trying to catch her.
Never end outside time by calling her and instantly taking her inside--many dogs learn (as puppies) to not come because it means the end of play time. Start practicing while on leash or a long line calling her and then initiating more play time.
Some puppies will come to investigate if you lay down and don't move.

Find a beginning obedience class and I'd recommend one listed as beginning Obedience trial training--those trainers tend to have more in their bag of training tricks that trainers who train for "household" obedience.

Personally I never call a puppy who is out alone. But I rarely let a puppy out alone--and I've been doing recalls using all of the above techniques for getting the puppy to me since he came home.

I go with treats in hand to where the puppy is and hand them a treat and invite them to come with me for more.

And over a lot of years with Dobermans I really don't expect really good and prompt recalls at six months--and I don't think they are really reliable until well over a year. Puppy brains are way too responsive to distractions that look more exciting than coming for a treat.

And finally some puppies are more responsive to the lure of a favored toy than any kind of treat.

Good luck--she's just young and keep working at it under controlled situations. A structured class really helps both you and her.

dobebug
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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 09:42 AM
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Over the years , I have found that this a problem with Dobermans - I call it CRN = Can't remember there Name ! Oh yeah - Kasia was the queen of just looking at you like - You talking to me ? Even Mr. Business gets this every once in a while .

I like Greenie's reply with working with OB . I had Mr. B to , two different OB classes and that was a game changer with him , I know things are much different now But Like LDi said - there are on line classes you can take and study .

What really helped Mr. B was teaching him on a lead to sit , stay , Front , Front with a come to me - started out with a short lead and then I kept making it longer and longer - I had him sit and stay then walk back 20 feet then call him to front . And as the great posters on here said - High value treats work . When Mr. is goofing around - all I have to do is say treat time and he's hauling it to the door .

I did have a major call off the other day when the neighbors dog came over and I couldn't call him off . We are working on that now .

The best foundation is good training - that is where it all starts - But even with that - Like I said about , they will forget there names .

Maybe look on you tube for some good videos on training - even maybe some on Rally OB .

One last thing , I promise She is 6 months old and still tons of puppy left in her ! I have also came across that age group that they hit a road block on training - I had to shorten my classes here at home with them .

Best of luck ! You will get it , just keep at it

Doc
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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the idea's. We used little cookies and will try better stuff for treats. She was in a long line yesterday and would not come, just sat and stared. We will work on the training, I also ordered a prong collar as well like a lot of you recommended on this site. She has a regular collar right now.
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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 09:48 AM
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The Fenzi Dog Sports Academy recall class, Calling All Dogs https://www.fenzidogsportsacademy.co.../courses/12090 won't be running until the August session.

Oh, I nearly forgot this recent' blog post, where Denise Fenzi talks about recall work with her new puppy. https://denisefenzi.com/2020/05/want...tastic-recall/

This DVD on Really Reliable Recalls is helpful, though. https://www.cleanrun.com/product/rea..._dvd/index.cfm
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 10:02 AM
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Liverwurst is also high value for treats. What I have done is work with two people one person is a little further away not much one person holds the dog loosely facing the other person the person with out the dog calls dog's name come clapping yeah yeahing as soon as dog come jackpot (a lot) of high value treats. Turn dog around and repeat do this several times a day. Increase space between two people hope this helps
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 10:42 AM
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I train my pups (had girls, since 1977) all off-leash with zero treats...I want 100% recall, living on a busy Hwy.
- I've retrained treated dogs before, that are not reliable / from other local Pet training schools

Since our pups are 10 weeks old, they get to help mom take one of Dads old socks, out of the dryer & deliver it back to the bed room.
- our Dobes bed is a Leather sectional (during the day) & in the Master bed at night

I train with Voice Pitch (from baby soft to Loud) / Hand Signals / Whistle recall sometimes, if I'm hiding / and establishing a Strong Bond.
- even in bed, I will rub dogs tail nub (relaxing her) & belly very soft rubs...till Dad falls asleep
- recall is all about Bond, Love & Respect...in your Leadership
^^ When lacking some, perfect recall is Fruitless to expect @ a young age.
- and our former Amy, was fully OB trained @ 6 months young, via city street walking off-leash...but she had the desire to please, on Day3 home with us
- all pups are different

Our current dog, was a most Stubborn girl, with insane Red Zone Prey Drive...from 10 weeks old.
- she was the real challenge, for me // and humbled Dad, many times
- getting through her Frenzy state with hackles up and K9 teeth mouth Frothing ...as a pup
- even riding in my truck, she would attack the side window...seeing a new mom pushing a baby carriage...just insane, early on

Now all is very well here - every time we went outside on the front porch / she got neck scratches, hand massages, inside ear rubs, etc. // soon I was training her to Recall, as she returned to lap up my hand & voice attention...even without dog knowing, an
Organic Training secession was in progress.
- our Bond became bullet proof // and now I can call her easily off, a skunk / bunny / squirrel / etc....just several yards away
- right in her tracks, If I order her to STOP...she gets it now
- she is not afraid, if I have to yell like a Drill Sargent...when the last skunk was under our bird feeder, in the black of night...had to avoid than spray encounter, real quick
- I taught her that we both respect each other // and If Dad is yelling, obviously her Safety is in Danger
- so this style of Co-Dependence, get the win-win here...and the rest, finally became easy
- I have always trained, for a mild form of Separation Anxiety (SA)....non destructive, of coarse & I become critical worthy enough in dogs life, to please their Master
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 11:04 AM
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I just saw this on FB: https://www.facebook.com/events/177216820284545/

“I am the sea witch. I am the tide you fear and the turning you can't deny. I am the sound of the waves running over your bones on the beach, little man, and I am not amused at finding you on my doorstep.”
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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnfanatic View Post
She was in a long line yesterday and would not come, just sat and stared.
Did you reel her in, or did you simply let her stay there?

“I am the sea witch. I am the tide you fear and the turning you can't deny. I am the sound of the waves running over your bones on the beach, little man, and I am not amused at finding you on my doorstep.”
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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falnfenix View Post
We train our puppy owners to utilize chase as part of recall when they're younger. Puppies WANT to chase you. Be super exciting, run away from them, and praise the heck out of them when they come to you.

Once puppies are a little older, I train with a long line. Call pup, then reel them in. Praise the heck out of them and send them back out to play/sniff/do whatever. Make sure calling them to you isn't always resulting in the end of playtime.

When pups are very young, I use their meals when training this - when they're older, go with higher value treats or toys.
This part in bold is the KEY to good recall. When you train, most people make the mistake that when they call "come", it means the end of the fun the dog was having. They quickly learn that they do NOT want to "come" because it's a "bad" thing. When you train recall, it should almost never mean their fun ends. When I train recall, I nearly always send them back to what they are doing early on. And I NEVER use recall for something the dog doesn't like - not "come" to get a bath, "come" to get your nails done, etc. "Come" should be FUN!

I'd start over with your training, and use a new word. With puppies (and many adults), starting by running away works really well, because chasing is fun!

I'd also recommend a class or trainer to help you. You've "poisoned" the command and you need to train it differently.
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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Awesome guys, really cool of all of you. I am trying to think of a new work to replace come, what should it be? Also, this is our fault but one of you asked what did we do when she didn't come when being on a line. My GF would sit on the grass like she was ready to play but Nova still wont not come over. So after about 10 min we would give up and walk away which obviously is not good. Wht should have we done? Walk towards her??
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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 11:53 AM
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Alternatives to the "come" cue are "here", "close", "to me", "come" in a different language (French, maybe), or just about anything else that's easy to holler over a distance and that doesn't sound like any of your other cues. I save "front" for a formal obedience recall, but that's another option.

I'm going to try training my dogs a whistle recall, even though they are rarely allowed off lead (no safe places for it around here).


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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnfanatic View Post
Thank you for the idea's. We used little cookies and will try better stuff for treats. She was in a long line yesterday and would not come, just sat and stared. We will work on the training, I also ordered a prong collar as well like a lot of you recommended on this site. She has a regular collar right now.
Don't use a prong for recall!

Try much better treats. Figure out what drives her nuts. Liver? Braunschweiger? Cooked chicken? Tripe? Keep working until you figure it out, and use a variety. She should never know what awesome thing is coming her way. Be excited - if she likes personal play, use that, too! It should be the BEST THING EVER when she comes to you.

Check out the links Rosemary posted on training - those are all fantastic resources.
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& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT L1V L1E L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG DOG TKN WAC
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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 12:17 PM
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Oh, I was watching this Facebook Live video last night, and she talks about recall training in it, as well.

https://www.facebook.com/thecognitiv...87983815566113


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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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I will watch the movies tonight. She pulls when walking , that's why I bought the prong collar. She loves cooked chicken
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post #21 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
Some puppies will come to investigate if you lay down and don't move.....
Another thing that might work in an emergency is to whoop invitingly (Yippee! Look, look, look at me) and run AWAY from the puppy. That might trigger her to play chase with you and at least get her away from the danger area.

If she's looking at you or you can get her attention, you can pretend to discover something on the ground, pick it up and look at it, or pretend to eat something. Make your actions big, bold and excited so that she really gets curious. That's more for a dog who is wandering around slowly keeping half an eye on you than one who is charging off into the distance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
...Personally I never call a puppy who is out alone. But I rarely let a puppy out alone--and I've been doing recalls using all of the above techniques for getting the puppy to me since he came home.

I go with treats in hand to where the puppy is and hand them a treat and invite them to come with me for more.
Yup...If I need to end a play session, or do something the dog might not like much, I go get the dog (with a treat if possible), and snap on the leash. I make a practice during ordinary play time of intermittently calling the dog to me and then encouraging her to leave again, or coming up with a new activity that she will enjoy (like fetch, for example. Dog comes, you praise and then throw the ball.)

When you call her, praise--happy, happy, joy, bounce--throw a party--when she is moving toward you (even if it is 5 minutes later and you're pissed with her)--never yell or act angry if the dog is heading your way.
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Last edited by melbrod; 05-28-2020 at 01:25 PM.
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post #22 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 12:53 PM
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I have taken two of my dogs to AKC Obedience Champions.
Long line training does wonders, most of the time when a dog does not intuitively respond to a command it is because they do not know what they are expected to do.
Start with 25 to 50 feet of parachute cord attach it to collar, parachute cord is very light and produces minimal drag.
Put your dog in sit stay back off 10 or 15 feet to start then a simultaneous COME command and slight tug on the cord, if she doesn't move keep the pressure on the cord and show the treat.
It goes without saying lavish praise during the whole time she is coming.
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post #23 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 03:05 PM
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Braunschweiger ??????

That would NEVER work here MC ! Kadin and I would be fighting over it !

BTW - You must have some German in you , were the only ones that seem to like it !

Sorry to get side tracked here , but it's Meadow's fault
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post #24 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECIN View Post
Braunschweiger ??????

That would NEVER work here MC ! Kadin and I would be fighting over it !

BTW - You must have some German in you , were the only ones that seem to like it !

Sorry to get side tracked here , but it's Meadow's fault
EWWWW. *I* think it's gross. My husband and the dogs are welcome to fight over it! (He's pretty much 100% German!)
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Richter & Sypha
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& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT L1V L1E L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG DOG TKN WAC
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post #25 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 03:12 PM
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A little story:

Years ago I was training my boy off leash in a large fenced field. There was a guy training his pup on leash on the other side the field.

I was working on Sit... Stay... Come. I'd put my boy in a "Sit". Command "Stay", and walk quite a distance away. After brief time I would call him. He would come and sit right in front of me. Rinse and Repeat may a half dozen times.

Eventually the other guy came over and asked how I trained him to come with such success. He was having a terrible time teaching recall to his young dog

I told him something like: Consistency, patience and short regular dedicated training periods works for me.

He asked "Is that it"? I smiled and said "Almost"... and pulled a baggie out of my pocket.

"Bacon... my dogs will do anything for bacon!" LOL

John Lichtwardt
Portland OR
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Last edited by 4x4bike ped; 05-28-2020 at 03:14 PM.
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