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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Rehoming

We have reached a bad point. Shavo is going to need to be rehomed, in a home with no children. My daughters safety is our number one priority and we can't allow him to be in our home with her anymore. He was doing perfectly fine with her, and we have been working with a behavior specialist but he will randomly snap at her. I don't want to have him put down if possible because he is a great dog, he just cannot be around children. I don't know how to get him rehomed and don't want to take him to a shelter because he will be put down if we do that.
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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 06:39 PM
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As I and a few others said in this thread (https://www.dobermantalk.com/puppy-c...help-asap.html), I'm concerned about his temperament. Personally, I think he needs to be evaluated by a qualified veterinary behaviorist before you consider rehoming him. In many states you are liable for any bites after rehoming a dog, even if you disclose prior bites. I'm very concerned about the risk with him, and whether you work with a rescue or do a private rehoming I really think he needs a full assessment.

You can find board certified veterinary behaviorists here: https://www.dacvb.org/search/custom.asp?id=4709

In my opinion, that's the responsible move before anything else happens.
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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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We dont have any certified veterinary behaviorists near us, for over 200 miles. That's not something I can do. We work with a trainer who has a masters degree in animal behavior however, and he said Shavo has a good temperament, he just doesn't trust my daughter.
At this point, my husband is ready to have him put down, which I don't want. I want him to go to another home so he can live a happy life without this threat of being put down.
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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 07:28 PM
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Please contact Marsha Sheppard here in Utah. 801-553-6444
[email protected]
She handles all the rescues for Utah Doberman Club.
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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 07:31 PM
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I forgot to ask. Did you contact the breeder first and foremost. Undoubtedly they will want to know the problem.

"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh
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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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His breeder has kids, and another litter of puppies they are taking care of right now. They won't take him back.
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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 07:51 PM
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Did you purchase him from a Utah breeder? I may be able to foster him as I have no children in the home, but I do have other dogs and cats. How is he with other animals?
You are welcome to send me a PM and I will do all I can to help.
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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 07:53 PM
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What is the name of the trainer you are working with?

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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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We work with Andrew Maunder from Utah county dog training. He's been fine with other dogs in dog parks and the other dog I have at home, but we don't have cats or other animals so I don't know how he would do. He was purchased from a breeder here in Utah.
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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 04:36 AM
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Beautiful dog.........you should be able to find a home for him......hang in there and keep working with forum members........there’s got to be a way to find a great home for your dog.
Meanwhile keep kiddo’s safe and away from your Dobe .....if pup bites and causes an incident rehoming might then become very difficult.
Thanks for your efforts to find a home versus putting the dog down......bummer that things have not worked out for your family.

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post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 11:53 PM
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It seems like you have made a difficult but very good decision. In reading the old thread, the problems were pretty serious back in June:

“He's calmed down a ton, no longer lunging at her when he sees her but still barks if she gets close. We are waiting for a behaviorist that will be able to help us with him. She has been able to feed him treats and give him a toy but he won't allow her to pet him.”

Lunging, barking at your daughter, avoidance of contact, all of those behaviors are extremely LOUD communications from the dog that he is severely uncomfortable and anxious around your daughter. Being put in a situation where he is constantly stressed about it means he’s constantly adrenalized - biting, for a dog, is the next step in communication if the dog is not getting the safety he feels he needs by barking, lunging, and avoiding.

Please provide him a safe area away from your daughter until he is rehomed. That is an urgent need for both of them. This photo you posted shows a dog in a HUGE AMOUNT of distress to be in this situation. Whale eye, ears pinned back, tense lines around the mouth. This is the exact way to force a dog to bite, because he cannot get out of the stress zone.

Please please practice strict separation until this dog can be rehomed. It seems likely he has been accidentally been repeatedly stressed in this living situation. He may feel he has to bite to get the stress removed because nothing else has worked.

Good luck.
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post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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That image was taken before any of these issues before she even hit him. They are separated and have been since the issues started.
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post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 10:55 PM
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I read the thread and I just get the feeling there's more to this situation. I'm NOT calling anyone a liar. I'm NOT saying you've missed something. It just feels "off" to me like something is missing. I don't know.....maybe it's just me.
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post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunni_honey_buns View Post
That image was taken before any of these issues before she even hit him. They are separated and have been since the issues started.
That’s great that you are protective of both your daughter and your Doberman! Sounds like you’re on top of it.

It doesn’t really matter when the photo was taken, I was just trying to share some observations about the dog’s discomfort in the situation. The body language is a textbook illustration of how dogs communicate their discomfort in a number of ways long before they resort to a bite. It is pretty dramatic communication when you know what to look for.

Hope you’re having some luck with the rehome!
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post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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I spoke with the breeder, the breeder is willing to take him back, but she has children in the home so I personally don't think its a good idea to send him there. Someone else in the house stepped on his paw on accident today and now he is behaving in a similar way towards her. This is a grown adult and not a child that stepped him his paw, and did not hurt him. He is not limping, not licking the paw and not showing ANY sign of distress. She has never once hit him, never done anything to break his trust. This is a grown adult that feeds him and spends a long time with him and has been around him since day 1 and sees him daily. This is an extreme temperament issue at this point and I believe he needs to be moved to a new home immediately, if not put down.
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post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunni_honey_buns View Post
I spoke with the breeder, the breeder is willing to take him back, but she has children in the home so I personally don't think its a good idea to send him there. Someone else in the house stepped on his paw on accident today and now he is behaving in a similar way towards her. This is a grown adult and not a child that stepped him his paw, and did not hurt him. He is not limping, not licking the paw and not showing ANY sign of distress. She has never once hit him, never done anything to break his trust. This is a grown adult that feeds him and spends a long time with him and has been around him since day 1 and sees him daily. This is an extreme temperament issue at this point and I believe he needs to be moved to a new home immediately, if not put down.
It's really a breeder's responsibility to take him back. That's what a good breeder would do. She should have him evaluated, and if his temperament is so bad that he needs to be euthanized, that's something she needs to know, at the very least. You may also have legal obligations in your contract (if you had one).


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post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 06:15 PM
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Probably not the breeders first rodeo.......in all fairness to the dog...... please consider a return to the breeder or rescue before a bite is on record.
Please get the dog out of your home obviously this dog is stressed ........a different environment with a professional might be a good change for everyone.
You have an easy out with the breeder.......make your move.

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post #18 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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The breeder says she has never had any issues with any of her other litters. However, I know she's not the best breeder, because Shavo was extremely underweight when we got him and she over breeds her dogs. We never signed any contracts when we got him, so we don't have any obligations to the breeder.
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post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triciakoontz View Post
It seems like you have made a difficult but very good decision. In reading the old thread, the problems were pretty serious back in June:

“He's calmed down a ton, no longer lunging at her when he sees her but still barks if she gets close. We are waiting for a behaviorist that will be able to help us with him. She has been able to feed him treats and give him a toy but he won't allow her to pet him.”

Lunging, barking at your daughter, avoidance of contact, all of those behaviors are extremely LOUD communications from the dog that he is severely uncomfortable and anxious around your daughter. Being put in a situation where he is constantly stressed about it means he’s constantly adrenalized - biting, for a dog, is the next step in communication if the dog is not getting the safety he feels he needs by barking, lunging, and avoiding.

Please provide him a safe area away from your daughter until he is rehomed. That is an urgent need for both of them. This photo you posted shows a dog in a HUGE AMOUNT of distress to be in this situation. Whale eye, ears pinned back, tense lines around the mouth. This is the exact way to force a dog to bite, because he cannot get out of the stress zone.

Please please practice strict separation until this dog can be rehomed. It seems likely he has been accidentally been repeatedly stressed in this living situation. He may feel he has to bite to get the stress removed because nothing else has worked.

Good luck.
I thought the exact same thing when I saw this photo on the other thread, it appears the dog was uncomfortable way before the situation escalated.
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post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 12:22 PM
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@OP I’m going to be very blunt here, it is apparent that you have not kept your dog and child completely separated since the original incident based on your posts, you said he’s calmed down a bit, no longer lunging at her but barking if she gets close and you said he was doing perfectly fine with her when you were working with a trainer but he’s been randomly snapping at her. Now you have an incident where he is behaving in the same way towards and adult. Imagine if you had to live in a situation where you constantly felt uncomfortable, you would be on edge, and things that wouldn’t normally bother you would now bother you because you are already stressed to the max, this is what has happened to Shavo. Several people have given you a lot of advice, but it seems that you always have an answer as to why that’s not an option. This dog has the potential to either become a great dog with someone else or he might have serious temperament issues, but one thing I can say for sure is that if he stays in your home he his going to bite someone.

Now you have options of rehoming this dog via rescue group or the breeder, even a member here offered the possibility of taking him, but you don’t seem to want to do any of these things. You need to make a decision quickly before someone gets hurt and Shavo pays the the ultimate price.
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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 07:03 PM
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How old is he now?? Quite frankly, I would not trust this dog to be rehomed - you could set yourself up for a big lawsuit if he injured someone in a new household. I'm sure that it would be beneficial to have him evaluated by a real behaviorist - we are all just interpreting your posts as best we can.
I will tell you that if I ever had a dog behave that way towards a child or adult in my household, I would not hesitate to euthanize them..... I would never rehome a dog like that to become someone elses problem. JMHO

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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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I have already contacted a rescue, and haven't heard anything back from them. I don't want to give him back to the breeder because she is not a good breeder and I don't know what she is going to do with him. As far as I'm concered she is going to turn around and resell him to someone that has no idea what is going on. She has made no suggestions on what to do, only that she will take him back into her home with 6 children under the age of 15. That is NOT something I am comfortable with, but **** me for feeling like that right?
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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzmar Dobermans View Post
How old is he now?? Quite frankly, I would not trust this dog to be rehomed - you could set yourself up for a big lawsuit if he injured someone in a new household. I'm sure that it would be beneficial to have him evaluated by a real behaviorist - we are all just interpreting your posts as best we can.
I will tell you that if I ever had a dog behave that way towards a child or adult in my household, I would not hesitate to euthanize them..... I would never rehome a dog like that to become someone elses problem. JMHO
Hes just over 1 now. We don't have any behaviorist near us, the only things I can find are vets that keep telling me they don't deal with the behavior side.
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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 07:46 PM
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Did you ever contact Marsha?

"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh
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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzmar Dobermans View Post
How old is he now?? Quite frankly, I would not trust this dog to be rehomed - you could set yourself up for a big lawsuit if he injured someone in a new household. I'm sure that it would be beneficial to have him evaluated by a real behaviorist - we are all just interpreting your posts as best we can.
I will tell you that if I ever had a dog behave that way towards a child or adult in my household, I would not hesitate to euthanize them..... I would never rehome a dog like that to become someone elses problem. JMHO
I don't entirely disagree with MaryJo here. I was concerned about this dog's temperament in the original thread, and I remain concerned.

It's easy from the outside to think that there are things that could have made the dog uncomfortable, or there's more going on, and sure, there could be.

BUT...and this is a BIG, BIG but...if you've never had a dog with a genetically bad temperament. If you've never lived that, it's REALLY easy to judge from the outside and say that it's all the fault of the owner. And, as an owner, it's really easy to feel guilty. I can't say what this owner has done wrong. But I have personally been there. I've had "that dog." And I know that I did everything in my power to make her okay. I DID put in all the work. I DID spend more money than I care to think about on veterinary behaviorists, good trainers, spent years and years working with her, managing her environment...we didn't have kids. And it still came to a point of having her euthanized because it wasn't safe, and she was miserable in her own skin every single day. So I'm going to step back and have some empathy for this owner, because this could be that dog. We all know he's from an unethical breeder. We all know that can produce crappy temperaments. We also all know that a dog that is biting is a huge liability risk to rehome - it's a risk to a rescue or to place privately. If his temperament is sketchy...I don't know that it's the wrong thing to make a hard call. I see too many situations of rescues that refuse to make that call, and the fallout when the dog bites someone else.

OP, I'm sorry you're in this situation. Whatever the cause, it sucks.
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