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post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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The breeders FB page is called Brutal Dragons Doberman Kennel


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post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 03:44 PM
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So, Louise&Arron....

Your words: " We can’t do it another other way in the UK because cropping and docking is illegal!

I am going to toss my 2 cents in here.

First of all, all my boys have been cropped and docked. I really prefer the look. But more importantly, almost every breeder that I would consider unites their pups and humans with the pup cropped, docked and dew claws removed.

That being said. Ears and tails do not make the dog.

If I lived in a country that had a ban on ear cropping, I would easily live with dog with "natural" ears rather than risk a compromise of health, breeding and temperament.

If your only reason for importing a Doberman to the UK is cosmetic, I would reconsider your priorities.

One more thing... As others have said. You may be making a huge mistake using a broker.

In my experience, one really benefits from a nice relationship with the breeder of their pup.

You will not get that with a broker acting as a middleman.

Oh.. One other thing: The pedigree, health and competition information that you provided here is so lacking, that that alone would cause me to drop all communication with these people and start researching a qualified Doberman breeder.

Best to you in your search.

John
Portland OR
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post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 03:55 PM
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https://dobermanblog.com/importing-a...der-in-europe/

There might be useful information here.

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post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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However we decided to source our puppy I will do my research hence why I am here.

The health of the puppy is my main concern. Our reasons for wanting a cropped and docked Doberman is because this is the breed my husband fell in love with as a child before it was made illegal in the UK. I am looking for a healthy cropped and docked Doberman.

Unless the dog is a true working dog I believe the decision to crop and dock is a “cosmetic” one anyway, regardless of the legalities. But I also believe it is a personal decision, and I respect that.

Thank you all for your advice. I have a degree in biomedical science, I understand genetics, physiology and biology of disease in particular cancer, it is an area in which I work every day. Trust me I am trying to do the best thing here.




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post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 04:14 PM
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I believe that.

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post #31 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 04:38 PM
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Aritaur Dobermanns - Full Monty
I may as well put myself out there for criticism. It's kind of a boring day anyway with snow still coming down. But, I hope the day never comes that I could not have my cropped/docked Doberman.
At this point it is cropped or nothing, but if as much as I love this breed now, I would have to wait until I came face to face with that decision.
I have looked at this kennel in England before and thought, I 'may' be able to handle one of their gorgeous Dobermans with uncropped ears. Can't do the undocked tail, though.
I think an uncropped/undocked Doberman has to be twice as good as a cropped one to look good.
If I lived in UK I would check ARITAUR Dobermans for sure. They may even give good direction for importing from EU as it looks like they have done that themselves.

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post #32 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 05:06 PM
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I echo the others- stay away from a broker. It is a sure way to get scammed- the wrong puppy, a sick puppy, a puppy with no papers, or worse yet no puppy and you're out several thousand dollars (pounds). We have seen it happen here on DT.

While I do think it's best to deal face to face with a breeder, there are some breeders in Eastern Europe that do some health testing (I would want more than most offer, personally) and they regularly sell puppies abroad already cropped and docked. Good luck!
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post #33 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 05:38 PM
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My thought on the broker situation.

I think of them like a pet store.

If YOU were the breeder, would you put your puppies in someone else's pet store and just let anyone who comes along buy them? I just think that it says that the breeder really doesn't care who gets the puppies. Just sell them.

As a breeder, I WANT a first hand relationship with my buyers. I want to interview them, I want to meet them, I want to like them because I want us to be able to continue to have a relationship, I want to know what they need so that I can choose the right puppy for them. I want them to be able to comfortably contact me with any concerns. I don't want a language barrier, and I hope that doesn't sound racist - I just want to be able to communicate with my owners. Why should my owners have to pay someone else to do the things I should be doing for my puppies and my owners?

Secondly, that is very little health testing. Very little. I would not support that monetarily, which tacitly says you approve of them doing less than what responsible breeders are doing.

Six weeks away from getting a puppy and you don't even know who the parents are for sure. Nope. No way. Put your dollars away for now.
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post #34 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 05:47 PM
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It is tough looking for a puppy and the ban in the UK further complicates the situation.

When I was looking for a pup, Sugars breeder came to our house to meet us and do a home study on us. He brought a binder with all of the health testing on both parents and their pedigrees. We discussed our life with Coco and what we wanted in a dog and what we had to offer. This was prior to us filling out an application. Once I filled that out, he requested to do a vet reference check which I gladly consented to. I was pleased that he was checking me out so thoroughly. I then spoke to him one night on the phone for an hour and asked him my 10 questions I had for him. When we were both satisfied with each other, we decided to enter into a contract.

He is coming over this weekend as he has 1 of Sugars sisters still because he hasn't found the right home for her. The other 2 sisters have been placed and they both may come over also this weekend.

I value this relationship with him. I didn't have this with Coco as she was from a byb. We text and check in regularly. He has offered to watch Sugar if we go away. This relationship is important.

I wish you luck and hope things work out well.
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post #35 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 07:57 PM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressrb View Post
https://dobermanblog.com/importing-a...der-in-europe/

There might be useful information here.


Just wanted you to know I have used this site before .........when you enter the link listed above .......go to the column that reads “about” ......then scroll to the very bottom..........you will see an option for “contact us”........you can email the holder of this blog and they might be able to give you more info regarding the dogs as well as the broker.
My dog Hoss is a European Doberman .....and this man from Doberman blog did some investigating for me.
Emailed day one......and they responded to me the very next day. Just a resource for you that might help with some of your questions.
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post #36 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 01:36 AM Thread Starter
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Hi everyone thanks again for your advice.

I would like to just reiterate, perhaps I’ve not made this clear enough, that I won’t be spending any money on any puppy I am unsure about whoever I get it from.....no papers no puppy.....no heath checks no puppy......no pedigree no puppy.

I have taken your advice and have contacted a couple of breeders in the UK who have imported their dogs and bitches from Europe. I have even come across a breeder who has a dual location...Belgrade and London who I have asked advice from.

Thanks again....and I understand


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post #37 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 10:27 AM
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You might try sending a PM to member Iceman here on this forum. He hasn't posted in a while, but he's a breeder in Cyprus. He might have alerts turned on to get your message - it's a least worth a try. https://www.dobermantalk.com/member.php?u=8407


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post #38 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louise&Aaron View Post
DAM : HD-A
SIRE: HD-B, vWD N/A, DCM N/N, B LOCUS B/B, Narcolepsy N/N

Any advice here?


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This is insufficient health testing.

You would want to see for BOTH parents:
Hips (hips are done on both in this case)
vWD Status (only done on sire on this case)
At the very least an echo done in the last year from the date of breeding. Not done here.
Eyes, examined and certified by an ophtamologist. Also not done here.

Ideally - but I've not seen it as frequently done in europe, you'd also want to see:
A thyroid pannel at least one year before date of mating.
Elbows
A holter monitor test for the heart.

There are other health tests/results I would like seeing but they aren't what I consider bare bones minimum, non-negotiable.

The B locus is only useful in terms of knowing the possibility of the resulting offspring being either black or brown based. Interesting they don't have the D locus listed, as dilutes are not allowed in the European standard most Euro breeds test for it.

The DCM N/N is likely the PDK4 gene (also called DCM1) but it does not give the dog a clean bill of health regarding DCM as DCM is polygenic and we have thus far only located 2 of the suspected 30+ genes involved. This information is useful for research purposes, possibly for breeding, but it is not a 'health test' per se.

Also the hip grading system has changed in europe, it is now straight equivalent to OFA.
HD-A = Excellent
HD-B = Good
HD-C = Fair
HD-D = Borderline
etc.

I would definitely find a breeder you are interested in and then use a broker solely for the transport if you are unable to fly out yourselves.
A friend of mine had a good experience importing from Vital Screen in Belarus.
I just gave a quick look at their website, the dam of their latest litter is listed as being cardio free with an EKG and Echo-Doppler. The Sire just says cardio free so I would enquire further about what that means for him. I think they have their own transport/contact/broker people, as they seem to have a UK specific contact.

Of course I cannot vouch for them myself, I can only say my friend had a good experience, her bitch will be 3 this year, so far so good on all the health tests, she's a UKC Ch, got her BH and has her first CC to becoming a UDC Champion, her hips were rated good by OFA, only issue I can think of is she has a hard time tolerating and digesting grain, but that is minimal. Stellar temperament. Whether that's a fluke or a reflection of the breeding program as a whole is another question, but that's where you come in and do your homework. If possible ask for proof of the claimed health tests.

This is not an endorsement, simply giving you an idea of where to start looking and researching.
If you have any questions about what should be potential red flags, what kind of questions to ask, DT is here to help you.
http://www.vitalscreen.ru/pupies-.html

Last edited by Artemis; 03-14-2019 at 10:56 AM.
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post #39 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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I am in touch with some breeders


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post #40 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 01:16 AM Thread Starter
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I wanted to say thanks....after all your advice we ditched the importer and have since been in touch with a breeder.
She is a lovely lady and really cares about her dogs and the puppies.
After discussions about parents health I have seen health certificates and Doppler results for Dam and Sire.....all good!
Dam is Liberos sister and is also vWD carrier but Sire is clear so Pup will only carry the gene. We won’t breed so that’s ok with me.
The breeder has offered a contract that guarantees no known genetic conditions will affect pup - she is clearly serious about the health of the breed.
I get a really good feeling from her.

She has arranged transport to our door in about 6 weeks time so we don’t even need to worry about travelling to collect him.

Sooooooooo

This is Axel




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post #41 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 07:51 AM
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You must be excited!
Who is the breeder?
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post #42 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 07:52 AM
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post #43 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
You must be excited!

Who is the breeder?

Nina at Brutal Dragons she’s fab, extremely supportive and I trust her! No problem at all with sending the health info....she sent me the certificates immediately


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post #44 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 09:16 AM
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That is exciting. I'm glad it worked out for you the way you wanted. Be sure and keep us updated with pictures.
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post #45 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressrb View Post
That is exciting. I'm glad it worked out for you the way you wanted. Be sure and keep us updated with pictures.

Oh I will! He’s so beautiful and his parents are amazing.
Dam is Lora Diamond Stamm (Liberos sister) and Sire is Mata Leon Fort Bellators


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post #46 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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Photo update of Axel




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post #47 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 09:18 AM
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Beautiful boy! When do you get him?

"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh
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post #48 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 09:38 AM
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Axel.........love that name...........love that PIC of the dobe prowl.......!!! Stunning.......

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post #49 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cressrb View Post
Beautiful boy! When do you get him?


29th April......I’ve booked the week off work


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post #50 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 10:15 AM
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I am so excited for you!
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"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh
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