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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-15-2018, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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5 Month Old Barking Around the Neighborhood

Hi everyone!

Nike is now 5 months old and we've been socializing her constantly. She's been in the car, parks, local small town downtowns, pet stores, walmart, lowe's, etc...

Since she was about 4 months old, we noticed she would growl at anyone that walks within a 1 mile radius around our house. She doesn't drag me over, wanting to meet the people, but will be super alert and starting growling. Now, she's barking and growling at the people "too close to our house." She's also always on leash when we're out walking around the neighborhood.

However, when we take out out and away from the house and immediate surrounding area, she does not bark at anyone. She doesn't like to walk up to strangers and greet them. She will do so at her own will and we let her explore comfortably.

We've talked to our breeder and also an experienced trainer and they both said she's still building her confidence and it's normal for her age. We've been telling Nike that "it's okay" and "quiet" after she goes one for 2-3 barks but doesn't seem to do the trick until the person of interest has turned the corner :/

I'm just wondering if anyone else has or had similar situations with their pups when they were young?

Thanks for any advice!
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-15-2018, 06:50 PM
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I have had all kinds. My current youngest is the most socialized Dobe that I have ever owned. Out in public on a leash or in a vehicle, he never barks or growls. He actively seeks out interaction with people. However he becomes extremely protective when someone appraches our house. If they knock or ring the doorbell he goes into complete "alert" mode. Scares the crap out of some folks! LOL

Then have owned a dog who I never let interact with strangers. He always appeared to be uneasy around them.

Then we had a boy who never barked or growled, but was the "sceeriest" dog around. Dos and people who did not know him avoided him like the plague. He would just plan his giant self in front of them and stare them down. Pretty funny.

Interestingly, there was a member here very recently who was concerned because her young dog wasn't barking. I believe the pup was about your girl's age.

In any case... since your breeder and your trainer agree on her behavior cause, I would just go with that for a while. It's pretty common at that age.

JMO
John
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-15-2018, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4bike ped View Post
I have had all kinds. My current youngest is the most socialized Dobe that I have ever owned. Out in public on a leash or in a vehicle, he never barks or growls. He actively seeks out interaction with people. However he becomes extremely protective when someone appraches our house. If they knock or ring the doorbell he goes into complete "alert" mode. Scares the crap out of some folks! LOL

Then have owned a dog who I never let interact with strangers. He always appeared to be uneasy around them.

Then we had a boy who never barked or growled, but was the "sceeriest" dog around. Dos and people who did not know him avoided him like the plague. He would just plan his giant self in front of them and stare them down. Pretty funny.

Interestingly, there was a member here very recently who was concerned because her young dog wasn't barking. I believe the pup was about your girl's age.

In any case... since your breeder and your trainer agree on her behavior cause, I would just go with that for a while. It's pretty common at that age.

JMO
John
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Hey John! Thanks for your input. It’s really amazing how they’re all so different 🤣 I actually did read that post and I thought to myself “this is the direct opposite!”

Nike was actually really quiet up until she turned 4 months old. And they overnight she started making her presence known in the neighborhood haha

But yea, we will keep working with her with breeders recommendations and hope for the best!


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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-15-2018, 08:49 PM
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Whitesocks,

As with 4x4's Dobes in previous post, our two Dobes Spock & Eva, both over 8 y/o have various modes of vocalization...

Both are vocal inside house (protective mode), selectively vocal with Dad in front yard (UPS/USPS/Garbage truck mode) and never vocal on walks (Alert/ search mode).

I've now got Spock desensitized enough to our multitude of Feral cats on one half a block I coined "The Cat Gauntlet" that he just looks and keeps going. (Trained with sit command and "Kitty Treat" reward over a period of several months) Now, I just praise them for good Kitty passing behavior- Look, but no pulling or noises.


Sample Group in "The Cat Gauntlet"



Inside the house I have been calling Eva & Spock over after a couple of barks at front window to sit, be quiet and get a tiny kibble "No Bark" morsel. This has reduced extended barking for every event they detect....
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Ten Doberman Rules
Poke Everything.
It's New? Bark At It.
Moves? Chase It.
Doesn't Move? Smell It.
Liquid? Spill and Dribble It.
Treat or Food? Wolf It Down.
Not Food? Chew It Slowly, Be Quiet & Hide From Human.
A Toy? Shred & Destroy It.
Stuffed? De-Stuff It.
Bites You Back? Wrestle It!
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-15-2018, 09:06 PM
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LOL Sarek!

McCoy is not allowed to bark when he is in the yard. House is fine, yard is a no no.

I rarely use more than one word commands. But in this case (back yard barking) it was "Hey! there is no barking in dog land!" And then even without calling him in he would come inside and wait for his treat. The bowl of treats sits right by the back patio door.

The joke is that his bowl of treats sits within his grab, yet it would never even occur to him to "raid" his treat bowl. I believe his gratification comes from my approval rather than the physical treat.

John
Portland OR
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 10:15 AM
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I somehow missed any of your other posts - so a belated welcome to you and congrats on your puppy. We have two Irongate Dobermans from Eve.
A puppy goes through so many phases the first year. I consider a 5 month old equal to a 5 yr old child. So much to learn on their part and so much to teach on your part.
And with Dobermans each one is their own person and individual. Jada our second Dobermans was so different than Duggan and a real trial to us at first, especially in the
car. She had to bark at every thing and nearly broke our ear drums. It was not fun taking her anywhere. But, she did learn. The first year is just a lot of consistency in
commands and repeats over and over. She will get it.
I would love to see a picture of 'Nike' !

"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 10:54 AM
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Nike..thats a real cool name.......

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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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I somehow missed any of your other posts - so a belated welcome to you and congrats on your puppy. We have two Irongate Dobermans from Eve.

A puppy goes through so many phases the first year. I consider a 5 month old equal to a 5 yr old child. So much to learn on their part and so much to teach on your part.

And with Dobermans each one is their own person and individual. Jada our second Dobermans was so different than Duggan and a real trial to us at first, especially in the

car. She had to bark at every thing and nearly broke our ear drums. It was not fun taking her anywhere. But, she did learn. The first year is just a lot of consistency in

commands and repeats over and over. She will get it.

I would love to see a picture of 'Nike' !


Hi! It’s always great to meet other Irongate Dobermans out there! Just wondering, how did you train Jada in regards to the barking? We talked to Eve and she also mentioned teething might play a part in the barking. We just don’t want all our neighbors to think she’s aggressive, because she’s totally not, but her big girl bark and growl isn’t helping her case haha What are some things to say to them when they’re barking? I’ve been saying “it’s okay, their neighbors and they’re good people!” Lol and the hairs on her back do stand up and not sure if that’s a signs she’s more fearful than anything?

I’ve attached a photo of her but not sure if it’ll upload!


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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Nike..thats a real cool name.......


Haha thanks! Everyone we meet goes, “oh like the running shoes brand?!”


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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 04:50 PM Thread Starter
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LOL Sarek!

McCoy is not allowed to bark when he is in the yard. House is fine, yard is a no no.

I rarely use more than one word commands. But in this case (back yard barking) it was "Hey! there is no barking in dog land!" And then even without calling him in he would come inside and wait for his treat. The bowl of treats sits right by the back patio door.

The joke is that his bowl of treats sits within his grab, yet it would never even occur to him to "raid" his treat bowl. I believe his gratification comes from my approval rather than the physical treat.

John
Portland OR


Hey John!

How did you train McCoy to only bark in the house? I also want Nike to only bark in the house when needed but not outside at all. I’m afraid she’ll think that barking in general is bad and never speak again sorry, first time dobie mom so I’m worried about everything


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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Whitesocks,

As with 4x4's Dobes in previous post, our two Dobes Spock & Eva, both over 8 y/o have various modes of vocalization...

Both are vocal inside house (protective mode), selectively vocal with Dad in front yard (UPS/USPS/Garbage truck mode) and never vocal on walks (Alert/ search mode).

I've now got Spock desensitized enough to our multitude of Feral cats on one half a block I coined "The Cat Gauntlet" that he just looks and keeps going. (Trained with sit command and "Kitty Treat" reward over a period of several months) Now, I just praise them for good Kitty passing behavior- Look, but no pulling or noises.


Sample Group in "The Cat Gauntlet"



Inside the house I have been calling Eva & Spock over after a couple of barks at front window to sit, be quiet and get a tiny kibble "No Bark" morsel. This has reduced extended barking for every event they detect....


This is so awesome!! We don’t have many cats around the neighborhood but we have dogs and Nike goes off on them

Whenever you walked near the cats with Spock, you had him sit and reward him with treats when he didn’t bark? Nike kind of just goes off when she sees someone or dogs approaching around the corner and I can’t seem to get her to stop once she starts 🤦🏻*♀️ Would love to have Nike be alert and on search mode on walks but only vocal indoors when needed!

Thanks!!


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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 05:44 PM
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Hi There: You must have my Irongate's Calm Before the Storm (Tessa) sister. Tessa just recently got her big girl voice and she too is letting people who walk by the yard know that she is there. We also have a neighbor that has a trampline so she will bark a few times at them. I believe that it is just part of puppy age growing and really noticing new things and being a bit frightened and keeping the scary thing away with a show of "go away" bark. I just help her investigate in a very neutral manner as she looks to me for approval and then when she sees that it is not a scary thing after all calms down. We socialize in a controlled manner but she is still a young pup with so many new things - wheels such as bikes, skate boards and such seem to set her off so we have had the neighbor kids come by and let her see that it is not so bad. My previous boy Max did the same thing at that age but with a few more months and positive experiences it got so much better and he was calm wherever we went. I sometimes think that because Doberman pups look so much older even at a very young age, we expect a bit too much from them as they are still such young babies at 5 months old and everything is a new experience - good or bad. I keep her under her threshold when we are out and about and let her observe at a distance until she is comfortable and then we get closer to activity and people - too much at that age does them more harm than good as it is sometimes a slow process. She is beautiful and have fun - that little puppy stage sure went fast..
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 06:58 PM
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Ok, yup she is full of the dickens. I see it in her eyes, lol. She is beautiful - thx for sharing photo.

If she was barking just to hear her own voice or because of the excitement, I would always use the same word - No bark in a mean voice. If she didn't quit, I would reach around and
grab her leash and back it up with a tight grip. Just don't lose the faith and keep up the same commands. They will learn.

When we first started showing our third Doberman, Kiri at six months, she was growly, too. Standing in the crowd, waiting to hand her off to her handler, if someone came by and stood
in front of her staring, Kiri would start a low growl until they went away. It used to embarrass me. She doesn't do that anymore on the show grounds anyway as she is comfortable there.
Still if a stranger walks up to me, I will tell them to talk to me first before looking or petting my dog. Each has their own personality that you have to learn to interrpret by body language
and just living close with them.

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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 07:29 PM
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That is avery nice looking girl! Wonderful cut on those ears.
I am in luv!
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 07:31 PM
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Did Carl Pew crop her ears?
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 07:37 PM
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Hey John!

How did you train McCoy to only bark in the house? I also want Nike to only bark in the house when needed but not outside at all. I’m afraid she’ll think that barking in general is bad and never speak again sorry, first time dobie mom so I’m worried about everything


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Hi whitesocks

So... every Dobe that I have ever owned is innately protective. So with McCoy it was a matter of introducing him slowly to outside influences.

I live in Portland.It is a very dog friendly town. Starting at about 10 weeks I would take him to a street nearby and simply sit and watch the passersby. This street has shops, restaurants, taverns with outdoor seating. Lots of folks with children and dogs. Eventually, he just became used to the hoopla.

If he became ill at ease, I would have him lie down right beside me until the "threat" passed.

Once he was more secure, we started to walk the street. We went into stores, interacted with people and dogs. Eventually, he just got used to it. BTW, he is never off leash in public. Both he and I like it that way. We still walk that street every day. McCoy has become a great representative of the Doberman breed.

So...Although I always discourage aggression in public, I have never discouraged his innate protection of our home. I embrace it. It does take a few extra measures to insure my guests or visitors comfort. But it works out pretty well.

You may find this thread of mine from a couple of years ago interesting:

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...guard-dog.html.

My sweet boy cornered an intruder at 3 in the morning.

The one thing that I will say: Learn to read your dog. Study her body language so that you can accurately discern her immediate comfort level. To me this is very important.Especially with a Doberman.

John
Portland OR

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giselakim View Post
.... I keep her under her threshold when we are out and about and let her observe at a distance until she is comfortable and then we get closer to activity and people - too much at that age does them more harm than good as it is sometimes a slow process.....
This part. If she's barking or growling when she sees a dog (or whatever sets her off) she feels like she's too close. On walks, keep your eyes open; notice her body language and only go as close to whatever as her body language tells you she's comfortable with. If she stiffens up and does that laser focus thing, you've gone too close. Let her explore at her own speed.

Like 4x4 said, the first step is often just letting her sit and watch whats going by...at a distance where she feels safe.

Turn around and walk in another direction, if you need to. Be matter of fact about it...don't do the "It's ok. Don't be scared" thing, or at the opposite end of the spectrum, no yelling or collar jerking. Get her out of a situation before she ramps up and makes you have to do extreme things like dragging her away barking and yelling.

Work on getting her to focus her eyes on you. And give her time.


Arrrgggghhhhh.....I just reread your original post. Scrub what I said above....I thought the barking was going on while you were walking around in new areas of the neighborhood. I'll leave up what I wrote for other folks who have THAT problem to read, but in your case it doesn't really apply. Ooops

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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 08:08 PM
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LOL Mel... Still great advice.

John
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by giselakim View Post
Hi There: You must have my Irongate's Calm Before the Storm (Tessa) sister. Tessa just recently got her big girl voice and she too is letting people who walk by the yard know that she is there. We also have a neighbor that has a trampline so she will bark a few times at them. I believe that it is just part of puppy age growing and really noticing new things and being a bit frightened and keeping the scary thing away with a show of "go away" bark. I just help her investigate in a very neutral manner as she looks to me for approval and then when she sees that it is not a scary thing after all calms down. We socialize in a controlled manner but she is still a young pup with so many new things - wheels such as bikes, skate boards and such seem to set her off so we have had the neighbor kids come by and let her see that it is not so bad. My previous boy Max did the same thing at that age but with a few more months and positive experiences it got so much better and he was calm wherever we went. I sometimes think that because Doberman pups look so much older even at a very young age, we expect a bit too much from them as they are still such young babies at 5 months old and everything is a new experience - good or bad. I keep her under her threshold when we are out and about and let her observe at a distance until she is comfortable and then we get closer to activity and people - too much at that age does them more harm than good as it is sometimes a slow process. She is beautiful and have fun - that little puppy stage sure went fast..


Hey! Tessa’s parents are Harley x Streaker right? If I’m correct, Nike should be 1 month older. She’s out of Kenzi x Dawson. But both litters have the same “storm” theme! we’ve been socializing her slowly but have have taken her to our local downtown street, dog friendly malls, puppy socials, stores etc... and she does well. She really dislikes when people walk towards her and try to pet her abruptly so we definitely do keep an eye out for those people. When she sees us talking to neighbors or strangers, I definitely feel her ease up and she becomes more comfortable.

You’re right though, that puppy phase flew by!


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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 11:16 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, yup she is full of the dickens. I see it in her eyes, lol. She is beautiful - thx for sharing photo.



If she was barking just to hear her own voice or because of the excitement, I would always use the same word - No bark in a mean voice. If she didn't quit, I would reach around and

grab her leash and back it up with a tight grip. Just don't lose the faith and keep up the same commands. They will learn.



When we first started showing our third Doberman, Kiri at six months, she was growly, too. Standing in the crowd, waiting to hand her off to her handler, if someone came by and stood

in front of her staring, Kiri would start a low growl until they went away. It used to embarrass me. She doesn't do that anymore on the show grounds anyway as she is comfortable there.

Still if a stranger walks up to me, I will tell them to talk to me first before looking or petting my dog. Each has their own personality that you have to learn to interrpret by body language

and just living close with them.


Haha! Just curious though, what does “full of dickens” mean? Yea, we noticed Nike is very cautious and slow to approach anything new so we figured all these random dogs and strangers that walk or jog too closely to her, she gets into that super alert mode and I can feel the vibration through her leash as she starts the growl 🤦🏻*♀️

Yes! She was cropped by Dr. Pew! I love her ears and she’s gotten so many complements when we’re out and about!


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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
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Hi whitesocks

So... every Dobe that I have ever owned is innately protective. So with McCoy it was a matter of introducing him slowly to outside influences.

I live in Portland.It is a very dog friendly town. Starting at about 10 weeks I would take him to a street nearby and simply sit and watch the passersby. This street has shops, restaurants, taverns with outdoor seating. Lots of folks with children and dogs. Eventually, he just became used to the hoopla.

If he became ill at ease, I would have him lie down right beside me until the "threat" passed.

Once he was more secure, we started to walk the street. We went into stores, interacted with people and dogs. Eventually, he just got used to it. BTW, he is never off leash in public. Both he and I like it that way. We still walk that street every day. McCoy has become a great representative of the Doberman breed.

So...Although I always discourage aggression in public, I have never discouraged his innate protection of our home. I embrace it. It does take a few extra measures to insure my guests or visitors comfort. But it works out pretty well.

You may find this thread of mine from a couple of years ago interesting:

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...guard-dog.html.

My sweet boy cornered an intruder at 3 in the morning.

The one thing that I will say: Learn to read your dog. Study her body language so that you can accurately discern her immediate comfort level. To me this is very important.Especially with a Doberman.

John
Portland OR


Hey John,

Yep, that’s exactly what our breeder said. She mentioned all of her dogs will bark in the car as they see it as territory and it’s their nature to be protective. Which I totally love about this breed. I think I’ll need to take her out more and just sit with her. When we go out, we’re usually walking around and she does so well. That’s why it surprised us when she expanded her territory around our neighborhood. Maybe I’ll try sitting in my front lawn with her and just let her people watch haha

Did McCoy ever growl or bark during the socialization period when you took him to people watch on the streets? If he did, did you correct it by taking his focus away from the target of interest to focus on you? And were treats involved?

When I walk out my door and see people walking their dogs or kids, I can sense her alertness and the growl follows almost immediately. I’m guess that would be a good time to have her sit and focus on me? Also, more often than not, she always finds a passerby across the street or jogging in her direction when I’m crouching to pick up her poop 🤦🏻*♀️ Slows down my reaction time significantly lol


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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 11:29 PM Thread Starter
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This part. If she's barking or growling when she sees a dog (or whatever sets her off) she feels like she's too close. On walks, keep your eyes open; notice her body language and only go as close to whatever as her body language tells you she's comfortable with. If she stiffens up and does that laser focus thing, you've gone too close. Let her explore at her own speed.

Like 4x4 said, the first step is often just letting her sit and watch whats going by...at a distance where she feels safe.

Turn around and walk in another direction, if you need to. Be matter of fact about it...don't do the "It's ok. Don't be scared" thing, or at the opposite end of the spectrum, no yelling or collar jerking. Get her out of a situation before she ramps up and makes you have to do extreme things like dragging her away barking and yelling.

Work on getting her to focus her eyes on you. And give her time.


Arrrgggghhhhh.....I just reread your original post. Scrub what I said above....I thought the barking was going on while you were walking around in new areas of the neighborhood. I'll leave up what I wrote for other folks who have THAT problem to read, but in your case it doesn't really apply. Ooops


Haha no worries! I still think it’s very relatable! The dogs we usually encounter are on he opposite side of the street. Nike would already be peeing or doing her own thing when she sees them and her laser focus sets in. When dogs are close to her, she more often than not would want to play and will do a playful bark when I don’t let her in the streets lol

Today, she was done pooping, I bent down to pick up her poop and out of nowhere, this jogger takes the turn and starts jogging towards us on the same side of the street. She immediately takes her stance and growls + bark. I grabbed her and tried to calm her down, which she did a bit but she’s obviously amped up. Am I correct to assume this jogger was wayyyy too close for her comfort and she judged it as a threat?


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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 11:49 PM
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Hey! Tessa’s parents are Harley x Streaker right? If I’m correct, Nike should be 1 month older. She’s out of Kenzi x Dawson. But both litters have the same “storm” theme! we’ve been socializing her slowly but have have taken her to our local downtown street, dog friendly malls, puppy socials, stores etc... and she does well. She really dislikes when people walk towards her and try to pet her abruptly so we definitely do keep an eye out for those people. When she sees us talking to neighbors or strangers, I definitely feel her ease up and she becomes more comfortable.

You’re right though, that puppy phase flew by!


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You are right, I was confused by the "storm" theme - lol. Yes, Tessa's parents are Harley x Streaker and she is one month younger. Two litters so close together had to have kept Eve very, very busy! We had Tessa's sister Paisley here for awhile and two pups were a handful (but I loved it) can't imagine two litters Love the collars and Nike is beautiful. It's nice to hear from other Irongate parents. Take care.
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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You are right, I was confused by the "storm" theme - lol. Yes, Tessa's parents are Harley x Streaker and she is one month younger. Two litters so close together had to have kept Eve very, very busy! We had Tessa's sister Paisley here for awhile and two pups were a handful (but I loved it) can't imagine two litters Love the collars and Nike is beautiful. It's nice to hear from other Irongate parents. Take care.


Haha no worries! Eve told me about Paisley’s stay over with Tessa when I talked to her last! Sounded like a lot of fun Are you located near Eve? We’re down in the SF Bay Area


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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 01:34 AM
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Haha no worries! Eve told me about Paisley’s stay over with Tessa when I talked to her last! Sounded like a lot of fun Are you located near Eve? We’re down in the SF Bay Area


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We live about 90 miles from Eve about 15 miles south of Sacramento. She has such a lovely place and it is always great to talk to Eve!! It really sounds like a good idea to just sit with Nike in your front yard and people watch as you stated. Tessa and I do that everyday and it amazes me what she notices and she is getting more comfortable with the joggers and all the activity. In the backyard I let her get out a bark or two as it is her yard and then we investigate (lol) and then I tell her "enough", I have it under control. She is getting it but it all takes awhile and most of it at that age is just puppy fear - just alot of small steps in exposure everyday builds their confidence. Puppies change so much during their first year, what they learn one day goes right out the window a week from then it seems, what did not bother them on day 4 will have them in barking fits on day 15 - LOL - just be patient and consistent - puppyhood does not last forever and enjoy it when you can
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