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post #1 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-09-2017, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Ear Pockets

Does anyone have a good close up picture of an actual ear pocket. All the ones that are posted on this site don't work. Something to do with photobucket. I'd like to see a good pic of exactly what they look like, and where to place the extra "pocket bumper". I've been posting for quite a while. Jefe's ears look fine, but can come together when the post are out during the drying time. I've been using first cotton extra pocket bumpers and then extra 2" long pieces of backer rod 1" above the bottom of the backer rod post for the past 2 postings. I'm not confident that I'm placing the bumper rod in the exact right location as I don't know exactly what a pocket looks like. What I call the "bell" of the ear i'm assuming is not the pocket. I don't see anything else that looks obvious to me.
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post #2 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-09-2017, 12:22 PM
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The pockets occur where the ear leather meets the top of his skull towards the front (behind the "natural fold") Sometimes the small cupped area the ear post sits in can be referred to as a "pocket" as well which can lead to confusion. Here are some photos of pretty severe pockets:

https://www.dobermantalk.com/ear-crop...raight-up.html

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post #3 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-09-2017, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
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I guess the "pocket" is the inward bulge right next to the top of the head. I'll look when I next take my pups ears down, but I don't believe my pup has pockets like that. His ears still come together when the post are out, at alert, or when he's looking down. Weird. I've done a lot of looking. There's just not a really good set of pics out there showing close ups of the pocket itself. This helps if i'm understanding what i'm looking at. It appears obvious. Thanks
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post #4 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-09-2017, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudnHouston View Post
I guess the "pocket" is the inward bulge right next to the top of the head. I'll look when I next take my pups ears down, but I don't believe my pup has pockets like that. His ears still come together when the post are out, at alert, or when he's looking down. Weird. I've done a lot of looking. There's just not a really good set of pics out there showing close ups of the pocket itself. This helps if i'm understanding what i'm looking at. It appears obvious. Thanks
That's correct Bud--sometimes it's easier to feel rather than see a pocket. But if you look at the inside of the ear a pocket will look kind of like the inside of a dent--if it's a big pocket (like the ones pictured in this thread) you can see the indentation from either side of the ear leather.

And when you put in a bumper, the bumper (whose sole purpose it to push out the indentation (commonly referred to as a pocket) sits on the inside of the ear leather (the hairless side) at the indentation--between the ear leather and the back taped post where the indentation is. It is held in place by the ear on one side and the post itself. If you are going to use a small piece of calking rod for the bumper cut the calking rod in half. lengthwise--place it so that the round side is against the ear and the flat side is stuck to the back taped post. The bumper should be perpendicular to the ear and the post--across the width of the ear and it would generally be just barely above where the ear attaches to the head.
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post #5 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-09-2017, 05:23 PM
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My general "rule of thumb” way to deal with ear pockets....I push with my thumb in various spots on the inside of the dog’s ear where it meets the top of his head. If my pressure on a particular place on the dog’s ear makes it stand upright instead of slanting inward, that is the place where I put the bumper. The pressure of the bumper acts the same way that my thumb does.
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post #6 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-10-2017, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
That's correct Bud--sometimes it's easier to feel rather than see a pocket. But if you look at the inside of the ear a pocket will look kind of like the inside of a dent--if it's a big pocket (like the ones pictured in this thread) you can see the indentation from either side of the ear leather.

And when you put in a bumper, the bumper (whose sole purpose it to push out the indentation (commonly referred to as a pocket) sits on the inside of the ear leather (the hairless side) at the indentation--between the ear leather and the back taped post where the indentation is. It is held in place by the ear on one side and the post itself. If you are going to use a small piece of calking rod for the bumper cut the calking rod in half. lengthwise--place it so that the round side is against the ear and the flat side is stuck to the back taped post. The bumper should be perpendicular to the ear and the post--across the width of the ear and it would generally be just barely above where the ear attaches to the head.
That's the best description I've heard, thanks. I'll look more closely next time I post, and try to do it right, this time. Using some of the other pics on this site, it appeared to me that the "pocket" was what I call the bell of the ear. I always placed the bumper towards the bell, which I thought was the pocket, even though it looked like a normal bell to me. This is a common problem with posting. I'd like to see your comment and a few nice close up pics made sticky. The primary sticky post that I, and i'm sure many others, use is at the top of the puppy forum. To my eyes, it sure appears that the extra backing rod, or bumper rod, is placed in the rear (bell) of the ear, and not at the side towards the head. It's also unclear that the rod should be placed at where the ear and the top of the skull meet. I'm not complaining about the sticky post. That post took me through my first Dobe with show cut ears, and they came out beautiful. This pup with the tips touching on alert has scared me. I'm overly picky with how the ears should look. Doing it wrong is something i'd never forgive myself for.
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post #7 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-11-2017, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudnHouston View Post
That's the best description I've heard, thanks. I'll look more closely next time I post, and try to do it right, this time. Using some of the other pics on this site, it appeared to me that the "pocket" was what I call the bell of the ear.
There was a really good posted series of pictures (marked with circles and arrows) that ended up without pictures when the online posting site decided after the fact to charge for third party hosting so I can't refer to that.

Yeah, unfortunately (and someone actually pointed out this) sometimes people refer to the bell as a "pocket" when they are trying to explain where to place the post itself. Just so there is no mistake--the bell is NOT a pocket. It is really the more rigid curved cartilage at the back, base of the ear--that's what a bell really is.

Quote:
I always placed the bumper towards the bell, which I thought was the pocket, even though it looked like a normal bell to me. This is a common problem with posting. I'd like to see your comment and a few nice close up pics made sticky.
Don't try to orient the "bumper" by any references to the "bell". As far as pictures go--I can hear long time members of the forum laughing--they can all tell you that I DON'T DO PICTURES--and frankly, I don't want to learn--I used to occasionally send pictures my dogs to other people who would post them here for me--but the only reason I had pictures was because I was showing them and I had ring shots for wins. I probably haven't used my very expensive DSL camera in a couple of years and probably wouldn't start trying to get pictures of pockets.

Quote:
The primary sticky post that I, and i'm sure many others, use is at the top of the puppy forum. To my eyes, it sure appears that the extra backing rod, or bumper rod, is placed in the rear (bell) of the ear, and not at the side towards the head. It's also unclear that the rod should be placed at where the ear and the top of the skull meet.
I better go and look at the stickys because I didn't even think that post had a picture of a pocket much less where the bumper should be placed.

So I'll try to make this very clear in a written format. Pockets form in the pinna (the ear flap or leather) mostly toward the front of the head where the pinna attaches to the skull. Most often just behind where the little flap of skin folds back against the outside of the ear. The bumper (no matter what it is made of--either a chunk of cotton or a small piece of backing rod) would lie parallel to the top of the skull (across the width of the ear) and perpendicular to the ear leather. And it would most often be placed just above where the ear and skull meet.

Quote:
I'm not complaining about the sticky post. That post took me through my first Dobe with show cut ears, and they came out beautiful. This pup with the tips touching on alert has scared me. I'm overly picky with how the ears should look. Doing it wrong is something i'd never forgive myself for.
The pictures that have opened for me mostly show just one ear really tipping in--not both--and that's the ear I think has a pocket. I also don't think it's even much of a pocket so you shouldn't have a lot of trouble correcting it.

The reason it only shows up when your puppy is alert is because it's a nice long crop and it's only the one ear that tips in.

Does this make it clearer where you need to look for the pocket? I think you've been trying to find it far back at the rear of the ear because you had mistaken the bell for what we've been calling a pocket. The cartilage is so hard (rigid) at the bell (and it's also where the cartilage hardens first) that I've never actually seen a puppy with anything that even resembled a pocket there.

But you aren't the first to think the bell was somehow related to pockets--there is a fairly long thread, mostly between me and a man whose forum name is "Chief" (I think--I'll try to look it up later--it might help you to read it) about some problems he was having when posting.

Good luck--keep asking questions if it's still not clear...
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post #8 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 07:07 PM
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OK Bud,

Do an advanced search using Chief's Posting Progress, Master Chief and dobebug and a date of 10/17/15. This is a three page long thread mostly about posting ears & pockets. It had a ton of pictures attached but were all Photobucket so they can no longer be seen--too bad because Chief's owner is the man who had confused the bell with a pocket and the written descriptions about what he was doing and what I was telling him are generally enough for you to see (as I said above) that you weren't the first (and probably won't be the last) to end up confused with the pocket/bell issue when it comes to ear posting.

My apologies for making you do a search--but I have never figured out how to post a link to an earlier thread (or post) so this is the best I can do for you.

Good luck...
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post #9 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 07:22 PM
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I wonder what ever happened to Master Chief. We used to talk all the time.

The guy was cool. He got so much flak from the "mean people" when he first came on, but it did not bother him. He actually started a thread about Chief! Then he suddenly disappeared.

I pm'd him a couple of times, but no response. Maybe I'll try again.

John
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post #10 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
OK Bud,

Do an advanced search using Chief's Posting Progress, Master Chief and dobebug and a date of 10/17/15. This is a three page long thread mostly about posting ears & pockets. It had a ton of pictures attached but were all Photobucket so they can no longer be seen--too bad because Chief's owner is the man who had confused the bell with a pocket and the written descriptions about what he was doing and what I was telling him are generally enough for you to see (as I said above) that you weren't the first (and probably won't be the last) to end up confused with the pocket/bell issue when it comes to ear posting.

My apologies for making you do a search--but I have never figured out how to post a link to an earlier thread (or post) so this is the best I can do for you.

Good luck...
Bug- the easiest way is to find that thread and respond to it. You can also "tag" bud like you would on social media by putting the @ right before typing the username. Like this @BudnHouston and he will receive a notification in the top right corner just like a pm.

There is a "fix" for the photo bucket pictures too. I posted a link for a google chrome plugin in the site help forum that can be downloaded to your internet browser. Hope this helps.
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post #11 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-13-2017, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by greenkouki View Post
Bug- the easiest way is to find that thread and respond to it. You can also "tag" bud like you would on social media by putting the @ right before typing the username. Like this @BudnHouston and he will receive a notification in the top right corner just like a pm.

There is a "fix" for the photo bucket pictures too. I posted a link for a google chrome plugin in the site help forum that can be downloaded to your internet browser. Hope this helps.
LOL! Aw Greenkouki--this is for the entertainment of the posters who know I've become a perfect idiot about computers . Reading these instruction is like trying to read a foreign language--I don't do any social media so just imagine me with my head wreathed in question marks about "tag" and "social media".

I knew I could respond to the old thread but didn't think the whole list was going to be interested in a very long thread basically dedicated primarily to pockets. What I really wanted to do was just make a link--and I'm still very "DUH" about that--so I figured if I could give him enough information so that he could find and read through that thread it might shed further light on the pocket issue and what to do about it.

Thanks for trying to educate me and I'll go read the instructions on the "fix" but I never succeeded in creating a Google account so I'm probably just firmly establishing my failure at all things computer these days.

dobebug the Luddite (stop laughing John)

PS Just went and looked at the "fix"--more foreign language--but I don't use either Firefox or Chrome as a browser. So--more "DUH!

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post #12 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-15-2017, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
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I found the Master Chief post, installed Chrome, but still can't see the photobucket pics.
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post #13 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-15-2017, 11:22 AM
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Just for those who don’t want to search, here’s the Master Chief link, missing pictures and all. The posts are very informative and not just about posting; well worth the read.

https://www.dobermantalk.com/ear-crop...vy-thread.html
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post #14 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-15-2017, 01:15 PM
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Thank you, thank you Melbrod--that link is the thing I don't know how to do...

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post #15 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-15-2017, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
Thank you, thank you Melbrod--that link is the thing I don't know how to do...

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If the other tech jargon was hard to follow maybe I can help you with how to do this at least bug!

The easiest way is to go to that thread and at the top in your address bar highlight the text- double click in the middle of that text really fast and it will highlight. Then using the right mouse button click once and go down and click copy with your left mouse button. The text will then be copied. Then go to reply to the thread that you want to post the link, click the right mouse button again and use the left mouse button and click while you're hovering over "paste" with your cursor.

Bud, you still need to add the photobucket fix extension to chrome for the images to show. You can download it here.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/d...bifiaedg?hl=en
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post #16 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-15-2017, 05:36 PM
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I have a Mac...right and left button clicking? .... with a touchpad.

I go to the window (address bar) at the top of the screen (it says “dobermantalk.com” in this case) and click on it. It will then display the link code for the page you are on. Highlight the code which shows up, and click on “copy" (in the edit menu). Go to where you want to put the link and click on “paste".

Then type
HTML Code:
[/URL]
at the end of the stuff you copied over and

HTML Code:
[URL]
at the beginning--that should display as a link once you have posted it.

Example, the code for this page plus the URL tags:
HTML Code:
[URL]https://www.dobermantalk.com/puppy-corner/295274-ear-pockets.html#post3903810[/URL]
gives you this:
https://www.dobermantalk.com/puppy-co...ml#post3903810

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post #17 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-15-2017, 11:46 PM Thread Starter
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Wow, thanks so much. Downloaded Chrome and the file extension fix. Works perfect.
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post #18 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-17-2017, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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Still having problems

Took Jefe's ears down for reposting. Still having issues. He seems fine, but whenever he lowers his head to smell, or does a strong alert, the ears come together. I've been trying to get the bumpers placed right after my misstart with putting the bumper in the bell. Nothing seems to be working. Attaching some pics of the top of his ears. There appears to be an indentation behind the fold, or is that part of the fold and normal? Feeling frustrated right now. My last Dobe had long show ears that came out perfect. I'm doing everything as before, but can't seem to overcome the dreaded ears together thing. I'm beginning to wonder if the cut was done wrong to start with. Different breeder this time using a different vet.
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post #19 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-17-2017, 10:54 AM
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They look OK to me. The indentation you see where the ear meets the top of his head is normal, as is the way the front edge of his ear folds backward to help make that cup. In a pocket, the ears are folded over so much that the inside of the ears edges sag and the ear practically touches the top of the head.
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post #20 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-17-2017, 11:19 AM
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Something doesn't look right to me. Maybe I am seeing the same thing Bud is.

Could it be the crop? Who did the crop?

"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh
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post #21 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-17-2017, 11:33 AM
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IMG_4513 by Melissa Brodhead, on Flickr

There.

Just wanted to see if I could draw it using only a touch pad and Flickr.

As you can see, I couldn’t.
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post #22 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-17-2017, 11:34 AM
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Do you have a picture of when you think they are too close together? In the third image he looks pretty alert and they look pretty straight up and down to me....?


DSC_0133
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post #23 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-17-2017, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Why are they touching at the tips if not for pockets? Do you think the cut is bad?
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post #24 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-17-2017, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudnHouston View Post
Why are they touching at the tips if not for pockets? Do you think the cut is bad?
Can you get a photo of when they are touching so we can get a look?


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
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post #25 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-17-2017, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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The third image is not at alert. He actually crinkles his brow between his ears when he "super" alerts. Pulls his ears together at the tips. The attached pic is from a few days ago, but it's still the same.
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