Help! My puppy is biting me. - Page 2 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jv17 View Post
So just reading this thread I have a question,I see some great advice.. but one thing that confuses me is the recommendation of putting the puppy in his crate after they keep biting..

Wouldn’t that be going against the whole crate training method of never using the crate as punishment?

Thanks!
^^ My thoughts exactly.

I've had 3 puppies in my lifetime, never had a dog that liked her crate / so I fail at this.
- just as well, we went crate-less, on 2nd pup...and never looked back
- takes almost 24/7 supervision, initially / but the positives, quickly materialize


Problem - Doberman puppy biting:

^^ My early training method has been coined here the "Beaumont Theory - Soft Bite/Muzzle Control", several years ago.
- may seen unorthodox at first glance, but I've had some good feedback/testimonials if given a chance

Mouthing for attention?
I don't worry about initial hand biting, its completely normal and gives one a chance to train soft bite/muzzle control starting from day1.
I approach puppy mouthing like a valuable learning experience, and treat as a very necessary opportunity.
My puppy biting rules are:
a) Mom is off limits to any/all mouthing...instead, Dad will fill the void/puppy mouthing need
b) only Dads hands are allowable body parts, for teeth to touch
c) no biting legs, feet, butt, arms, neck or face allowed
d) I don't redirect much and never leave the room to ignore puppy / if I leave the room, pup may consider that a win

I will stop puppy from constantly biting me, by putting my hand in their mouth (on purpose).
So this Dad offers up his hand as the sacrificial lamb, while young pup is still little.
My Training Method:
a) use my thumb or index finger, placed behind the molar teeth deep in mouth / and when pup bits down I am not getting hurt, because their gums clamping on me is ineffective
b) make a fist and wedge it in the pups mouth, so the pup is left with a wide open mouth momentarily, it can't close its jaws or exhibit much of any force
c) I will place my thump tip under pups tongue behind its little front teeth & it doesn't hurt...and hold it there, inside the lower jaw
d) I will grab K9 teeth (2 usually on the lower jaw) with my thumb and index finger looped together...pup twists & turns, and Dad lets go / pup can't bite back, when their teeth/jaw muscles are being effectively restrained
e) grab pups nose with my hand lightly & softly shake it, to initiate a playful reaction of open mouth

^^ Then I start saying "BE GENTLE" and "You CAN'T HURT DAD", soon they accept that I have some strange "super man" powers and the frequency and severity of biting decreases...now puppy is on the way to learning soft bite/muzzle control.
- because Dad's hand became the bite toy initally, I spared Mom from most of it
- and this direct hand approach, spared the family members from extra bits to the ankles, ass, face, arms, etc...which are off limits
- pup learned quick enough, my hand was the only bite target in the home...now our puppy likes to suck my thumb some

All this is playful, and teaches the human owner holds some sort of magic powers, that later will NEVER be challenged.
Next I proof the forever soft bite & controlled jaw muzzles with tennis ball in the mouth play.
- I tease pup with touching tennis ball on the tip of its nose
- allowing it to bit the ball, and I am constantly rotating it between its teeth
- ball is directed in & out of its mouth while the back of my fingers come into contact with the sharp tips of the long K9 teeth
- this is when, pup has come to respect the owners hand, and relaxes its ball grip considerably to not hurt the hand that feeds it

Also play tug-of-war sometimes the same way, wind up the puppy in excited play.
- but if my finger(s) accidentally enters the mouth of teeth, softness in bite is shown...in a split second
Finally, I teach young pup to take a half exposed peanut or almond out of my lips, in a very soft and controlled manner.

Soft Bite Training, lasts the dogs life time / it starts when their babies.
I've made it work on low, medium & high prey drive pups / building trust & respect, way before they grow up and reach maturity with much strength.


Tons of Info here:
https://www.dobermantalk.com/general-...py-biting.html

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

Last edited by Beaumont67; 05-04-2018 at 07:50 AM.
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jv17 View Post
So just reading this thread I have a question,I see some great advice.. but one thing that confuses me is the recommendation of putting the puppy in his crate after they keep biting..

Wouldn’t that be going against the whole crate training method of never using the crate as punishment?

Thanks!
I see that Beaumont67 just answered this query--this is a place where I disagree with Beaumont67's solution.

Crating a puppy AFTER leaving the puppy--interrupting the desire for attention and you being a participant in play hasn't worked to stop the biting you need to take further steps BECAUSE one common reason that puppies continue to bite is that they are so ramped up they are behaving the same way that an overstimulated toddler does just before they do a total melt down. The are so overstimulated they can't stop on their own. Crating them is a way to slow things down and most of the time a puppy at this point will do the same thing that a toddler does--they fall asleep because what they really needed was a nap and not more attention.

If you go back and look at my other posts about biting in this thread you'll see that I recommend that if you resort to crating the puppy that you don't do this for extended lengths of time. Crate the pup BRIEFLY--if he doesn't fall asleep within a coupler of minutes--let him out but often you'll find they just plain go to sleep. If I've crated a puppy because they don't seem to be able to stop biting on their own and they didn't go to sleep the next thing I'd do is put on their leash and go for a walk.

And I'll repeat that in my house there is no such thing as a "soft bite"--the house rule is no biting at all. I don't want a puppy to play with me s if I were another puppy--I'm not--I'll play but by my rules.

I've never found that briefly crating a biting puppy who can't seem to stop biting on his own hasn't affected his attitude toward crates. There is a crate that lives eternally with the door open in the kitchen by the slider. All my dogs and some of the cats regard this as a great place to go hang out because they can see me if I'm in the kitchen and hope springs eternal--maybe I'll give them a treat. My dogs travel crated, they are crated sometimes if they are not feeling well, they get crated if it's raining or snowing and I want them to dry their feet (on the blankets in the crate) before letting them loose in the house. As puppies they sleep in crates. In short crates are a part of the lives of my dogs--they are good with it. And I train them all with treat initially so that they learn that crates are a good thing. When they get crated, specifically for biting, there is no treat and no conversation about it--they seem to get the difference.
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 02:18 AM
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My dogs travel too , they are crated sometimes if they are not feeling well, they get crated if it's raining or snowing and I want them to dry their feet
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