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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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What's the best food for a Doberman Pup

I read an article on here somewhere that said that most puppy food isn't actually good for a pup. Apparently some of the ingredients make a pup grow too fast, and can cause joint issues in the future?
So what kind of food is best to feed him? I know it said 'all life stages', but my vet said to look for a brand of dog food that is specific for large breed puppies (I didn't even mention the article). My vet seemed pretty knowledgeable on the breed (which I'm thankful for) and he is the second only vet I trust in my area (due to the fact that a lot of the others are just in it for the $$$, like human doctors).
I've looked into Fromm, but I'd like to hear what some of you chose to feed your lil firecrackers.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 09:34 PM
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Well... This is a very controversial topic. I will simply relate my most recent experience.

My youngest, who was born 2 1/2 years ago, came from a well known breeder. When he was 12 weeks, I had the opportunity to hook up with her at a show in Washington. It had only been 2 weeks since I had picked McCoy up at her place in Southern Oregon, but I thought it would be nice to see how she thought the pup was coming along and grab any pointers.

So... The first thing she said, other than his ears were coming along well, was that she would like to see some more weight on him. Her recommendation Was to feed him Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy

Now... Eukanuba is not a very well received dog food on this forum. Still, Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy is a 4 star kiblle. Yes... lots of filler.

As I trust this breeder (McCoy is our 3rd Foxfire dog). I went with her recommendation.

McCoy thrived on this food. Never an issue. He did get a little chubby around 5 months, but by 7 months he was spot on. Never an intestinal issue, coat and muscular development were great. Skin was perfect. He was never sick.

Ay 14 months I transitioned him to Orijen and Acana. I finally settled on Acana Wild Prairie , which now has changed since the US production and sourcing to Acana Meadow Land. No problem.

2 weeks ago McCoy had a brief issue with diarrhea. First time ever. Antibiotics, Fortaflora and some added fiber. A couple of days.... Done deal . Lots of his going around in Portland

My thought is that Whatever you pup does well on and you can afford, you should go for it.

There are many brands of dog kibble that I personally would avoid, but the main thing that I wish to avoid is dog food "snobbery".

I figure with all the extra stuff I feed McCoy, It costs me about $5 per day to feed him. But, I guarantee you that if that did not fall within my budget, I would be able to find a cheaper, yet still healthy solution.

Best wishes to you and Rufus.

John
Portland OR
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 01:13 AM
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The "best" food is one your dog likes to eat, does well on, and doesn't break the bank to feed.

I recommend reading the book Dog Food Logic. DOG FOOD LOGIC - MAKING SMART DECISIONS FOR YOUR DOG IN AN AGE OF TOO MANY CHOICES - Dogwise Published Items - Dogwise.com It seriously helped me calm down, take a deep breath, and make an informed choice about what to feed my crew.

Of my current dogs, Ilka was raised on large breed puppy food, Leo was raised on the same adult food that Lucky and Ilka ate, and I have no idea what Lily was given. Ilka and Lily currently eat Fromm Adult (purple bag) and Leo eats Science Diet Sensitive Stomach and Skin (I will be switching her to a fish based kibble, though).
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 08:50 AM
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Raw feeder here with a new pup.

This is the first pup I have reared on raw (have been feeding it for years though). He came home with a bag of Acana (Junior large breed???). We switched him after a few days (he was 10 weeks). He was just back at the breeders (he is 15 weeks now) and she commented that the rest of the litter all have missing teeth and stinky mouths, his nails grow twice as fast and that he is more hydrated than the rest (he is not much of a drinker). The rest are still on Acana. Its a small sample size but interesting nonetheless.

I feed 3 dogs for around $7/day. I feed a protein with bone (largely chicken right now), offal, tripe, diatomaceous earth, fish oil, coconut oil, a fruit/veg puree and kelp. I do shop around a bit but all my meats come from safe sources. If I were to still be feeding Orijen/Acana I would be spending much more....double probably.

That isn't the deciding factor though. I worked in the pet food industry briefly and would never, ever feed kibble again.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 12:14 PM
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I second the book recommendation from Rosemary - it's a fantastic book, inexpensive and a short, easy read. It will help you understand dog nutrition and is written by someone with a master's degree in canine nutrition.

As far as food goes, you should feed either an "all life stages" food or a "large breed puppy" food. Which food is whatever food your pup does best on. I've fed several and my dogs have done well on many foods. I am currently feeding Fromm and my dogs thrive on it.

Edited to add: if you are going to feed an all life stages food, I recommend you use this calculator to make sure the calcium/phosphorus ratio is appropriate for your pup: https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-...ed-puppy-food/


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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sisu27 View Post
Raw feeder here with a new pup.

This is the first pup I have reared on raw (have been feeding it for years though). He came home with a bag of Acana (Junior large breed???). We switched him after a few days (he was 10 weeks). He was just back at the breeders (he is 15 weeks now) and she commented that the rest of the litter all have missing teeth and stinky mouths, his nails grow twice as fast and that he is more hydrated than the rest (he is not much of a drinker). The rest are still on Acana. Its a small sample size but interesting nonetheless.

I feed 3 dogs for around $7/day. I feed a protein with bone (largely chicken right now), offal, tripe, diatomaceous earth, fish oil, coconut oil, a fruit/veg puree and kelp. I do shop around a bit but all my meats come from safe sources. If I were to still be feeding Orijen/Acana I would be spending much more....double probably.

That isn't the deciding factor though. I worked in the pet food industry briefly and would never, ever feed kibble again.
This is essentially a great diet for any human or dog. Humans and dogs would naturally eat meat, organs, small bones, bone marrow, dirt (aka mineral supplement) lots of root vegetables, any fruit a human gave them, and then the fish and coconut oil are just bonus good things that they'd occasionally get in small quantities. Toss in a probiotic or some fermented stuff since fermented foods have been used as preserved food for as long as we can tell and you're back to a diet your and your dog's body runs clean on.

When I'm eating at my best this is what I aim for, in the meantime I feed my dog leftovers and this kibble version of the above https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I haven't tried it but I would eat it. It even smells like food instead of "dog food" that you wouldn't touch.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-02-2017, 01:28 PM
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Meadowcat, thank you for the information. I was wondering if you fed your puppies the Fromm large breed puppy food or one of their all life stages formulas. If you fed them an ALS food, which one? My local pet store has both Acana and Fromm foods to choose from. I get my pup in 2 weeks.

(these % are rounded some)

Acana Large Breed Puppy
Protein 33%
Calcium 1.4%
Phosphorus 1%
https://acana.com/our-foods/heritage/puppy-large-breed/

Fromm Large Breed Puppy
Protein 27%
Calcium 1%
Phosphorus 1%
https://frommfamily.com/products/dog...ical-analysis/


Thank you.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-02-2017, 10:51 PM
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Got some links to share, & info. below.

We never feed puppy food, promotes faster growth & joint problems / and I use to sell a few top brands.
- only All-Life-Stages, from 9-10 weeks old here
- puppy feeding guidelines, is a 50% increase of kibble by-adult-dog weight

PS - Acana & Orijen dog food is manufactured by Champion Pet Food in Alberta, Canada.
Ingredients Explained: https://animalso.com/dogfood/brand/orijen/


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaumont67 View Post
Hi Steve and cutie Zeus - please don't take this the wrong way, here to help.
Purina Pro-Plan in general is 2.0/2.5/3.0 out of 5 star rated. https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/dry/
Pup is hungry because kibble has the nutritional value of sawdust.

Common unhealthy & filler ingredients in cheap Pro-Plan are:
- poultry by-product meal (source of glucosamine), brewers rice, whole grain corn, whole grain wheat, corn gluten meal, corn germ meal

PS - I'm sharing a Link to another puppy on Pro-Plan, less than 5 years ago...sad ending though.
This month this same dog, made it onto the Rainbow Bridge thread...Yep, dobe never reaches its 5th B-Day.
- we are what we eat / dogs included...its up to us as Pet Owners, to real labels & understand buying decisions made
So study my posts, on his older thread & digest the infomation: https://www.dobermantalk.com/puppy-co...uppy-food.html

I'll always stick with 4-5 rated kibbles and 5 star organic treats...only.
- we now use Orijen Regional Red (Canadian company)...5 star (human grade quality)

For our 85 pound adult Kelly, that has a perfect coat & all muscle:
- I also put puppies on All-Life-Stage kibble / puppy kibble too rich and promotes faster growing (not good for bones).
- BTW puppies eat 50% more than an adult dog...given same weight
Morning meal - 2/3 cup of premium kibble in the morning + 2/3 lb. of home cooked Meat & Veggy stew.
Evening meal - 1.0 cups of kibble
General Competitor Analysis: Pet Perfect Express -- "Delivering human grade kibble for human pets"

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Last edited by Beaumont67; 10-02-2017 at 11:00 PM.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-03-2017, 08:37 AM
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Thank you. I put the Large breed puppy food side by side with the regional red and it appears that the regional red has higher percentages in most nutritional items. The calcium in the Regional Red is also nearly 2% though the Phosphorus is higher which nearly gives the suggested ratios on most sites.

https://www.chewy.com/orijen-regiona...e-dry/dp/29727

The breeder has the dogs on Nutro grain free, so I am just comparing them side by side.

https://www.chewy.com/nutro-grain-fr...ised/dp/136761

Thank you again.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-03-2017, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Meadowcat, thank you for the information. I was wondering if you fed your puppies the Fromm large breed puppy food or one of their all life stages formulas. If you fed them an ALS food, which one? My local pet store has both Acana and Fromm foods to choose from. I get my pup in 2 weeks.

(these % are rounded some)

Acana Large Breed Puppy
Protein 33%
Calcium 1.4%
Phosphorus 1%
https://acana.com/our-foods/heritage/puppy-large-breed/

Fromm Large Breed Puppy
Protein 27%
Calcium 1%
Phosphorus 1%
https://frommfamily.com/products/dog...ical-analysis/


Thank you.
My latest puppy (who is now almost 2) was raised on the Fromm Salmon Tunalini formula and did really well on it. The Fromm large breed puppy formula is also good. I would recommend feeding whatever the breeder feeds for AT LEAST A MONTH - don't add any additional stress to your pup's transition to your home by changing foods right away. If you want to change after that, go ahead and do a slow transition to a new food. I really like Fromm's foods, but there are a lot of good foods out there. I personally think Champion foods are overpriced for what you get, but lots of people like them.


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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-23-2017, 09:56 AM
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Not sure what everyone thinks of the Kirkland (Costco) Natures Domain puppy food. The only one I saw was the chicken and pea formula. It seems to have what the other "well known" brands have.
Protein 27%
Fat 15%
Fiber 4.5%
Calcium 1.2%
Phosphorus 1%

Per Dog Food Advisor Calcium Calculator
Calcium = 3.3 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.2 to 1

Last edited by outacontrol; 10-23-2017 at 10:08 AM. Reason: Added more data
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-23-2017, 10:19 AM
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Is that the one in the bright green bag that is Holistic/Organic?

I do like that one over the others.

My first choice is the raw, but I do feed a good kibble so they are used to it when out on the road, camping, showing or whatever.

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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-23-2017, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressrb View Post
Is that the one in the bright green bag that is Holistic/Organic?
I don't think so. I didn't see that one at my Costco. This was in a teal bag.
It did meet the AAFCO standards for All Life Stages including large breed dogs.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-23-2017, 12:44 PM
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Earthborn Holistic was recommended by my vet.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 02:24 PM
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My puppy is 2 months old and I feed him with Josera Family Plus (dry food for the bitch and her puppies). He ate that at his breeder's so I bought a bag to take home with us. I did not want to switch his food right after separating him from his family and bringing him into a new home, as it could have caused more stress for him.

Josera isn't exactly the best food out there, but the breeder tried it for the first time a couple of months ago, and he loved the results.

Before Atila finishes his Josera bag, I will slowly switch to Sam's Field Puppy. I never heard about Sam's Field until a year ago, when it was recommended to me for a puppy I got home from the shelter to cure it from a nasty, bloody diarrhea. The puppy loved it, and it really did help him, along with his medicine.

As for the other brands, I can definitely recommend Orijen, Acana and Carnilove.
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-01-2019, 01:40 PM
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My voat is for Natures Domain puppy food
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 04:49 PM
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Sisu- I'd be interested in talking with you about amounts, ratios, etc and different food to feed a puppy. Are there any sources you found that are good references? We would like to do this with our next pup and I want to be prepared. We have the time and resources and I don't think that there would be anything better than whole organic foods when possible. We just don't want to miss out on the vitamins and minerals they need, etc.
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 06:46 PM
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Pam, this is an older thread. I'm not sure Sisu is even still participating actively here. You might do better to start up a new thread with a shout-out for folks who raw feed to give you some advice.
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