My puppy looks a lot younger than 12 weeks - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
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My puppy looks a lot younger than 12 weeks

Hi, new to Dobermans here! I got a girl puppy on January 13 (of this year). She was from a byb, a little skinny, with some skin issues (likely from being kept sitting around in her own pee, since they've since cleared up), but otherwise healthy.

In the 2.5 weeks since I got her I've managed to put weight on her and clear up her skin issues.

But, she seems very small. She was born 11/03/2016. On 1/20/2017 I took her to the vet and she weighed 10.6 lbs and was a little skinny.

As of now, it does seem she's grown a bit, and put on a good bit of weight. I can't tell you her current weight, though, because I don't have access to a scale. I can see if I can find one.

However, she just seems small for her age. Now, I don't mind if she's going to be a petite Dobie. I just want to make sure she's not been stunted by the conditions she was in before I got her.

Here's a photo of her the day I got her, supposedly at 10 weeks:



And the following day (you can see the skin issues on her legs):





Here she is yesterday (01/30/2017 - around 12 weeks):

















I apologize for not getting better pictures...I'd just got home from work and she wouldn't stay still. Jumping around, trying to get my giant cat to play with her (he's 15 and set in his ways).

I know she needs some more weight (ie, visible ribs). I'm having a little bit of trouble because she just won't eat all her food. She loses interest about halfway through and just wants to play. I do pull her food after 20 minutes but next feeding is the same...she approaches her bowl with enthusiasm and then loses interest after about 3 minutes of eating. I'm cracking eggs over her food, adding flax seed oil, and giving her raw meat scraps when I can. She'll scramble to eat the wet cat food, if I forget to pull it out the way.

So, I guess, stupid premature question...does she seem "normal"? Just on the small side? Or, hey, it's only been 2.5 weeks so don't worry?

Thanks!

Jen
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 11:18 AM
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She looks like she was about 6 weeks old when you got her. Do you have akc paperwork?
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 11:48 AM
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Yes, I think she looks younger that what they told you.

Just feed her 3 to 4 times a day the amount of food which keeps her looking healthy (don’t overfeed thinking you’ll make her grow bigger--she’ll just be fat and get the runs, not grow taller), play with her, and let her grow up to whatever her size is supposed to be naturally. Puppies can be a bit ADHD about eating, but she’ll should soon learn to eat up what she wants in the 20 minutes you leave her food down, or wait until next time. Try not to pamper her too much with special treats to make her eat more--that will just make her an obstinately picky eater.

If you see signs of digestive upset or if she just doesn’t gain weight properly--if she’s bony or her hip bones stick out (you should be able to see her last few ribs and feel the rest, no rolls of fat anywhere), talk to your vet about her size, weight and how old he thinks she is.

She’s cute!!

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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She looks like she was about 6 weeks old when you got her. Do you have akc paperwork?
That's one thing that prompted me to post...I started looking at photos of Dobes the same age and noticed the striking difference in size.

I do have the AKC paperwork. It indicates the Sire and Dam, their registration numbers and Stud Book Issue No date, and the birthdate of my puppy as Nov 3, 2016.

Can that be easily falsified?
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, I think she looks younger that what they told you.

Just feed her 3 to 4 times a day the amount of food which keeps her looking healthy (don’t overfeed thinking you’ll make her grow bigger--she’ll just be fat and get the runs, not grow taller), play with her, and let her grow up to whatever her size is supposed to be naturally. Puppies can be a bit ADHD about eating, but she’ll should soon learn to eat up what she wants in the 20 minutes you leave her food down, or wait until next time. Try not to pamper her too much with special treats to make her eat more--that will just make her an obstinately picky eater.

If you see signs of digestive upset or if she just doesn’t gain weight properly--if she’s bony or her hip bones stick out (you should be able to see her last few ribs and feel the rest, no rolls of fat anywhere), talk to your vet about her size, weight and how old he thinks she is.

She’s cute!!
I'm glad to hear that her approach to her meals is normal for a puppy. So far, though, she doesn't seem picky or have a sensitive stomach. She'll eat anything and seems to be falling into a pattern with her BMs. She just gets distracted so easily.

I did ask the vet and he said something about her looking like she could be 11 weeks (at the time of the visit) and also something about her maybe not being a purebred, despite the papers.

Thank you, I also think she's cute. And she's a lot of fun. I just want her to be healthy! I can't wait until she's old enough to be my running partner!
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 02:16 PM
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Did they have more than one litter on the ground? If so, I'm wondering if they gave you papers for a different litter.


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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 02:56 PM
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She is going to be who she is as long as you provide that proper food and exercise and address any health issues that may develop along the way , i speak of finish size.
Remember that dobe puppies can look skinny in the morning and little pigs by evening.
enjoy your pup.
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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Did they have more than one litter on the ground? If so, I'm wondering if they gave you papers for a different litter.
I can't answer that. I suppose that's possible. This was definitely some shady byb. The guy drove to meet me in a beat up old pickup that had hand stenciled on the camper 'Doberman Puppies ###-###-####'. I'd indicated beforehand I was interested in females so he brought two. One was a bit bigger than the one I chose. I was actually interested in a smaller Dobe and Fisher, my puppy, was not only the smaller but also has the most engaging personality.

So, it's entirely possible they had more than one litter and he got the papers mixed up. Or he runs a shadier operation than I originally thought and pulled a fast one.

Ultimately, I have a cute, lovable, healthy, and super smart puppy. My original post is more about information gathering and ensuring I am taking care of her right.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alan j. View Post
She is going to be who she is as long as you provide that proper food and exercise and address any health issues that may develop along the way , i speak of finish size.
Remember that dobe puppies can look skinny in the morning and little pigs by evening.
enjoy your pup.
I'll do my best!
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 04:45 PM
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Hi Jen from another Jen.

What is her name? She looks like a lovey dovey. She reminds me of my Coco when she was a puppy. Coco is also from a byb before I knew better.

You've got her now and your job is to give her the best life possible which it seems you are already doing. Now that we know better we can do better next time and not support another byb.

How did you get our cat? We have a cat that looks exactly like yours. Tiki is the boss of the house although Coco is the big 'little' sister. Coco loves Tiki to no end but Tiki does not feel exactly the same lol. Tiki tolerates Cocos loving and affection until she tells Coco she has had enough. They are actually very funny together and amuse our company to no end.

Enjoy your girl!



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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 04:49 PM
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I am brand new to Dobermans so prob can't help much but I can tell you what my dog weighed. my puppy Moose was born on 11-05-16. i took him home at 8 weeks and he weighed around 9 lbs. he weighs 20 lbs now! see pic below. your puppy is so cute btw.
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 06:02 PM
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My breeder doesn't crop ears before 10 lbs, and she is rarely worried that one or two won't be big enough. She crops shortly before 8 weeks. I think a decent number of her puppies might be close to 12lbs by the time they go home at 8+ weeks. I didn't get Piper from her till 10 weeks, so I can't speak from personal experience.

In the first picture her legs look kind of short, but it might just be the angle. She does look a little younger than stated. I wouldn't worry about weight, if anything she looks a little round, but their tummies get fat and skinny within hours. They are like young kids that way - they don't have strong abdomenal muscles to tuck everything in so an empty tummy makes them look like they are wasting away, and a full one makes them look fat.

Just keep her lean but healthy and it is what it is. Enjoy her and all of her puppy antics - she looks like she is full of them! Has she started chasing the cat yet?
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 06:11 PM
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She looks now about like the 8-9 week old puppies my breeder just sent home. Here was Piper at 14 weeks (we were in contact with our breeder when they born, so I'm very confident that her age is correct):

https://www.dobermantalk.com/puppy-co...new-puppy.html

Either way I bet she is a wonderful puppy, I would just work from the assumption that she is 3+ weeks younger than they told you.
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
Hi Jen from another Jen.

What is her name? She looks like a lovey dovey. She reminds me of my Coco when she was a puppy. Coco is also from a byb before I knew better.

You've got her now and your job is to give her the best life possible which it seems you are already doing. Now that we know better we can do better next time and not support another byb.

How did you get our cat? We have a cat that looks exactly like yours. Tiki is the boss of the house although Coco is the big 'little' sister. Coco loves Tiki to no end but Tiki does not feel exactly the same lol. Tiki tolerates Cocos loving and affection until she tells Coco she has had enough. They are actually very funny together and amuse our company to no end.

Enjoy your girl!
Her name is Fisher, after Carrie Fisher. I was content to call her Carrie but my son, who is 15, said it would be weird for him because he has a friend named Carrie. So, Fisher, or Fish, it is.

I got my cat from a rescue about 11 years ago. Like your Tiki, he's the boss. Right now he's twice Fish's size, in height. I think Fish weighs more now. Sphynx (the cat) just ignores Fisher or when she forgets herself and tries to play, Sphynx will put her in her place.

I also have a kitten named Finn. Finn wants to be friends with Fish and Fish wants to be friends with him. But, right now she's too rough with Finn. He's just a little too small. So, I limit their playtime.

Thanks for responding, Another Jen!

Jen
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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I am brand new to Dobermans so prob can't help much but I can tell you what my dog weighed. my puppy Moose was born on 11-05-16. i took him home at 8 weeks and he weighed around 9 lbs. he weighs 20 lbs now! see pic below. your puppy is so cute btw.
Sounds like Moose and Fisher are on similar tracks. Since Fish was born 11/03 and was 10lbs at supposedly 11 weeks. I asked my son how much he thinks she weighs now and he thinks close to 20.

Your Moose is adorable!
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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My breeder doesn't crop ears before 10 lbs, and she is rarely worried that one or two won't be big enough. She crops shortly before 8 weeks. I think a decent number of her puppies might be close to 12lbs by the time they go home at 8+ weeks. I didn't get Piper from her till 10 weeks, so I can't speak from personal experience.

In the first picture her legs look kind of short, but it might just be the angle. She does look a little younger than stated. I wouldn't worry about weight, if anything she looks a little round, but their tummies get fat and skinny within hours. They are like young kids that way - they don't have strong abdomenal muscles to tuck everything in so an empty tummy makes them look like they are wasting away, and a full one makes them look fat.

Just keep her lean but healthy and it is what it is. Enjoy her and all of her puppy antics - she looks like she is full of them! Has she started chasing the cat yet?
I call that a milk belly! And you're right, it comes and goes throughout the day. But, I can always see about 4-5 ribs. But, I guess puppies are more variable with that, eh?

She doesn't chase that big gray one because she gets a can of whoop ass. But, the kitten...whole other story. And the kitten keeps coming back for more.
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Busytown View Post
She looks now about like the 8-9 week old puppies my breeder just sent home. Here was Piper at 14 weeks (we were in contact with our breeder when they born, so I'm very confident that her age is correct):

https://www.dobermantalk.com/puppy-co...new-puppy.html

Either way I bet she is a wonderful puppy, I would just work from the assumption that she is 3+ weeks younger than they told you.
She's so big! She looks full grown, though I know she's not. Beautiful pup.

I'll come back and update with photos and weight as she gets older. It should be interesting to see how she progresses.
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 08:59 AM Thread Starter
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My breeder doesn't crop ears before 10 lbs, and she is rarely worried that one or two won't be big enough. She crops shortly before 8 weeks. I think a decent number of her puppies might be close to 12lbs by the time they go home at 8+ weeks. I didn't get Piper from her till 10 weeks, so I can't speak from personal experience.

In the first picture her legs look kind of short, but it might just be the angle. She does look a little younger than stated. I wouldn't worry about weight, if anything she looks a little round, but their tummies get fat and skinny within hours. They are like young kids that way - they don't have strong abdomenal muscles to tuck everything in so an empty tummy makes them look like they are wasting away, and a full one makes them look fat.

Just keep her lean but healthy and it is what it is. Enjoy her and all of her puppy antics - she looks like she is full of them! Has she started chasing the cat yet?
Oh, I meant to respond to the short legs part...that's something I'm not sure of. If she's younger than they told me then I think they're normal length. If she's actually 13 weeks then, yes, they're on the shorter side.

When I am playing with her and am physically more on her level I think they look lanky but then when I am standing above her I think they look short. So, it might be angles?
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 09:42 PM
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Oh, I meant to respond to the short legs part...that's something I'm not sure of. If she's younger than they told me then I think they're normal length. If she's actually 13 weeks then, yes, they're on the shorter side.

When I am playing with her and am physically more on her level I think they look lanky but then when I am standing above her I think they look short. So, it might be angles?
I saw my breeders current litter today (they are 7 weeks) and asked her about usual weight+age. She said some litters are just reaching 10 lbs around 7 weeks, but this current litter was born huge and have already topped 12 lbs! I checked out their legs and they do seem short at the moment, maybe it is just the phase.

It seems like maybe she was approx 7-8 weeks at the vet visit by weight.

And around their ribs are a litle like their tummies, they don't have a lot of muscle tone so they stick out when they turn and bend. Don't forget Dobermans grow up to be slim, trim dogs.

As far as age, maybe coordination can give you a clue. So I spent a couple hours with the 7 week old puppies today and will say that they love to run around, but when it is at any speed more than a trot they are tumbling over their feet. More exuberance than coordination. By 10.5 weeks when we got her, Piper's coordination was quite improved. She could run around reasonable well. Not perfect by any means, but tripping up was the exception rather that the rule. When she did fall she could control her skids and slides and be up and going right away, where when these guys fall they splat and are a jumbled mess of legs they have to sort out before getting back up.

My cat was terrible. When Piper came home she would sashay by her then strut off just faster than Piper - basically teaching Piper to chase her. Of course Piper quickly grew and the cat realized within a month or two the error of her ways. She gave a swat once or twice, but not enough to teach her anything. The cat mostly avoids her now, but it has been up to us to temper her desire to chase the cat.
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
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I saw my breeders current litter today (they are 7 weeks) and asked her about usual weight+age. She said some litters are just reaching 10 lbs around 7 weeks, but this current litter was born huge and have already topped 12 lbs! I checked out their legs and they do seem short at the moment, maybe it is just the phase.

It seems like maybe she was approx 7-8 weeks at the vet visit by weight.

And around their ribs are a litle like their tummies, they don't have a lot of muscle tone so they stick out when they turn and bend. Don't forget Dobermans grow up to be slim, trim dogs.

As far as age, maybe coordination can give you a clue. So I spent a couple hours with the 7 week old puppies today and will say that they love to run around, but when it is at any speed more than a trot they are tumbling over their feet. More exuberance than coordination. By 10.5 weeks when we got her, Piper's coordination was quite improved. She could run around reasonable well. Not perfect by any means, but tripping up was the exception rather that the rule. When she did fall she could control her skids and slides and be up and going right away, where when these guys fall they splat and are a jumbled mess of legs they have to sort out before getting back up.

My cat was terrible. When Piper came home she would sashay by her then strut off just faster than Piper - basically teaching Piper to chase her. Of course Piper quickly grew and the cat realized within a month or two the error of her ways. She gave a swat once or twice, but not enough to teach her anything. The cat mostly avoids her now, but it has been up to us to temper her desire to chase the cat.

How coordinated are they at 13 weeks? I can tell you Fisher still sometimes stumbles over her own feet. She did it this morning when she tried to bound up the front porch steps and then a little later when she was doing puppy bounces at my son's shoe laces.

But, it does sound more and more like she's a few weeks younger than her 'papers' show.

I also control her access to the kitten. Because that stupid kitten, Finn, will let Fisher grab her by the neck and thrash him about. He complains but just lays there. Fisher is getting no negative feedback from Finn. Sphynx, on the other hand, has dug his claws into the side of Fisher's face a couple times, making her yelp. So, she mostly leaves HIM alone.
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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 12:36 PM
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I personally think she is probably the age they told you - I look at ear size, and there is definitely enough ear size in that first picture to put her at approx 10 weeks. Her small size most likely has to do with the condition of her dam/how SHE was fed and kept, and what they fed or didn't feed the puppies starting at about 4 weeks. Lots of BYB's wait a long time to wean puppies because it costs money to feed them - then when they DO wean them, it is cheap quality food and they rarely feed enough for all the puppies.
I'm assuming that you had the vet worm her and check for worms, but if not, make sure you do that. I don't know what you are feeding but please feed good quality kibble - if you are buying it at the grocery store, I guarantee you that it isn't good quality.
Good luck to you. Please learn from this experience that supporting a crappy breeder is only going to guarantee that he will produce more puppies.

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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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I personally think she is probably the age they told you - I look at ear size, and there is definitely enough ear size in that first picture to put her at approx 10 weeks. Her small size most likely has to do with the condition of her dam/how SHE was fed and kept, and what they fed or didn't feed the puppies starting at about 4 weeks. Lots of BYB's wait a long time to wean puppies because it costs money to feed them - then when they DO wean them, it is cheap quality food and they rarely feed enough for all the puppies.
I'm assuming that you had the vet worm her and check for worms, but if not, make sure you do that. I don't know what you are feeding but please feed good quality kibble - if you are buying it at the grocery store, I guarantee you that it isn't good quality.
Good luck to you. Please learn from this experience that supporting a crappy breeder is only going to guarantee that he will produce more puppies.
I CAN tell you he mentioned he was feeding the puppies the same adult food he fed the mother - the Tractor Supply store brand.

I am feeding her Blue Buffalo puppy food. The vet did deworm her and sent me home with a second dose that I am scheduled to give tomorrow. They took a stool sample but I didn't hear anything back so I am guess nothing showed up that alarmed them.

She has grown a lot since I got her, though.
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 08:01 PM
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This is my last litter at 6 weeks of age. At 10 weeks the "petite" little girl weighed 17-1/2#, the other 3 girls were 18#3oz, 18#7oz and 19#. The boys were 22#, 23# and 25#. Sounds like your little one is on the right track. Good luck with her.



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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 09:22 PM
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If it was the 4Health brand, that's not a bad food, actually. Now, if they were feeding the cheaper stuff (Retriever?) then it's not as good, maybe Dog Chow quality.

I've fed 4Health off and on for the past few years, and my dogs have done well on it.


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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2017, 08:14 AM Thread Starter
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If it was the 4Health brand, that's not a bad food, actually. Now, if they were feeding the cheaper stuff (Retriever?) then it's not as good, maybe Dog Chow quality.

I've fed 4Health off and on for the past few years, and my dogs have done well on it.
It was the Retriever stuff. There's actually not a Tractor Supply close to where I live so I doubt I'll ever by their stuff. Especially since there's a Petco in the same shopping center as the Kroger I do my grocery shopping at.
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