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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
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Early surprise

Well, I didn't make it to the show this morning. At 4:12 Greta started having her puppies. It's now 8:30-ish and Hank and I should be in the ring, instead i'm in my jammies and robe in the kitchen floor. So far we've got 6 puppies - 2 boys and 4 girls. She's doing really well and the pups are active and healthy.

If everything is going well tomorrow I'm going to try to make it to day 2 of the show. Jon and the boys can puppysit for an hour.

"The miracle isn't that I finished... The miracle is that I had the courage to start."
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 09:57 AM
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Congratulations.

How about some pics!

Naveen

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Originally Posted by TracyJo
You know that the growling is just his way to assert his dominance and attempt to control the world, don't cha???? It's caused by his brain growing faster and larger than his skull, be very careful, he could snap at any second now!!!! :-)
Classic.....


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RIP my sweet Princess.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 11:28 AM
 
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Isn't this the litter out of a rescue bitch? Or am I confusing her with someone else? Who is the sire?
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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Greta isn't a rescue... I'm not sure who you're thinking about. The sire is Southern Prides High Voltage.

The pup count is 8 now. I'll try to get pictures soon.

"The miracle isn't that I finished... The miracle is that I had the courage to start."
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 12:13 PM
 
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Southern Prides Hight Voltage. One of Suzan Shipp's dogs. He will be two years old next month. As far as I know the only health testing he has had is for vWD. We know that he can't be OFA certified because he isn't old enough yet.

I remember in another thread you stated he is preparing for his SchI. I guess I could say my puppy is also preparing for his SchI. Whether he will ever get it is problematic. The sire of your litter failed one or two temperament evaluations at the UDC National. He doesn't have any titles except the virtually meaningless "Intlch", his owner doesn't show in the AKC.

All in all he doesn't qualify under your description of responsible breeding as stated in this previous post you made here:

IMO breeding any of the four accepted colors is fine,as long as the heath testing (OFA, thyroid, vWD, etc) is complete, the parents are representative of the breed standard, and there has been some attempt to prove the soundness of the parents (either through conformation shows, or various working arenas).

Last edited by micdobe; 11-11-2006 at 12:26 PM.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 09:44 PM
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why do you have to rain on the parade? why..



PUPPY PICS!!!!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by micdobe
Southern Prides Hight Voltage. One of Suzan Shipp's dogs. He will be two years old next month. As far as I know the only health testing he has had is for vWD. We know that he can't be OFA certified because he isn't old enough yet.

I remember in another thread you stated he is preparing for his SchI. I guess I could say my puppy is also preparing for his SchI. Whether he will ever get it is problematic. The sire of your litter failed one or two temperament evaluations at the UDC National. He doesn't have any titles except the virtually meaningless "Intlch", his owner doesn't show in the AKC.

All in all he doesn't qualify under your description of responsible breeding as stated in this previous post you made here:

IMO breeding any of the four accepted colors is fine,as long as the heath testing (OFA, thyroid, vWD, etc) is complete, the parents are representative of the breed standard, and there has been some attempt to prove the soundness of the parents (either through conformation shows, or various working arenas).
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 09:47 PM
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congratz. are you a breeder? is she titled at all? just wondering.

pics please.


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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 10:14 PM
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She just had a litter, so obviously she is a breeder. And no, the dam is not titled. Very little health testing on either parent.

As for raining on a parade, why shouldn't a breeder be called on their practices when they are advertising their litter?
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-12-2006, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zucker
why do you have to rain on the parade? why..



PUPPY PICS!!!!!!

Any responsible breeder following ethical practices and the highest regard for the breed and the issue of overpopulation as it stands, won't mind a bit being asked questions. In fact IMO they would welcome the questions being that they have the breed's best interests at heart and would hope that others do too, they would probably be glad to see concerns being that not nearly enough people in general have issues with throwing two dogs together. I would imagine also, any breeder boasting the road that an ethical responsible breeder must follow (health testing, titling, temperment testing, etc...) for all to hear (or read) would certainly make sure to follow that to a T as well, unless it just means that everyone else should....

Keniesue - I hope the mom and babies are doing well, and everyone stays healthy.

Last edited by Lexus; 11-12-2006 at 09:20 AM.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-12-2006, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
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I didn't post to advertise.

Actually, I thought I was telling a funny on myself and Hank -- in that we didn't make the Saturday show. I've been excited and nervous about getting him to this show and all that went POOF at 4am.

All's well though, the pups and Greta are doing well and Hank and I will be showing this afternoon.

"The miracle isn't that I finished... The miracle is that I had the courage to start."
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-12-2006, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Any responsible breeder following ethical practices and the highest regard for the breed and the issue of overpopulation as it stands, won't mind a bit being asked questions. In fact IMO they would welcome the questions being that they have the breed's best interests at heart
I agree completely...there is nothing wrong with "raining on a parade" like this one.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-12-2006, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexus
I would imagine also, any breeder boasting the road that an ethical responsible breeder must follow (health testing, titling, temperment testing, etc...) for all to hear (or read) would certainly make sure to follow that to a T as well, unless it just means that everyone else should....
I agree that's the way it SHOULD be. But talking the talk is always a LOT easier than actually walking the walk.



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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-12-2006, 12:18 PM
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-12-2006, 12:29 PM
 
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"congratulations!"

Why? For what? That a backyard bred litter has been born? That they will probably end up in homes not good enough for them? That the odds are at least half of them won't stay in those homes permanently? That their parents have minimal health testing, increasing the chances the puppies won't have good health? That their sire at least has questionable temperament based on not being able to pass even a puppy evaluation at the UDC National?

As I understand it neither of these dogs would be allowed to be bred in Germany, and I have been hearing for over 20 years how superior the German breeding system is to the American one.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-12-2006, 12:51 PM
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Not only that but these puppies being born will probably go to homes that the owners have the same morals as this backyard breeder...and they will bring more poor puppies into the world.

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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-12-2006, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LapDog
Not only that but these puppies being born will probably go to homes that the owners have the same morals as this backyard breeder...and they will bring more poor puppies into the world.
Exactly. And the cycle continues.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-12-2006, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexus
I would imagine also, any breeder boasting the road that an ethical responsible breeder must follow (health testing, titling, temperment testing, etc...) for all to hear (or read) would certainly make sure to follow that to a T as well, unless it just means that everyone else should....
Was wondering the same thing. That means to me this breeder knows how to go about breeding better dogs, with high priorities to make the next generation of Dobermans genetically and conformationally healthy with solid temperaments, but doesn't practice what they preach, so to say. Which is really sad. It shows me this breeder says one thing, but is actually condoning and doing backyard breeding anyway. Of course, I would have never known until the breeder advertised (I mean posted) on this board that she had a litter of new puppies.

Such a young stud dog cannot even have all of their complete health testing and failing a puppy temperament test is a huge red flag, not having any meaningful titles, and not having complete health testing, all of those really add up...and not in a good way. And that is just on one side of the new puppies pedigree...
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-12-2006, 02:41 PM
 
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What is the dam's pedigree?
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-12-2006, 03:29 PM
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I see that even the 3 year old in her avatar is up for sale, too.
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