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post #1 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-17-2015, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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I throw in the towel tonight.

one last final incident this evening. since the pup moved in and started getting very anxious about the environment with the barking and growling at a lot of non threats. it started changing my Danes behavior who is a follower.. she also gotten more anxious. tonight my dane nipped a person who was getting their dog who was playing too rough w delta. this has happened 3 times total regardless if delta was involved. and our soft n mild dane has never done such a thing ever ever. I have been trying to work on delta suspiciousness crating her in the vechile but it is strong and I can't work it out quick enough. so anyhow we are afraid of things escalating w our dane who is a lovely ready made dog the type of dog that makes u feel like u are walking amongst an angel.. with all the other instances of growling at me the bite the temper tantrums and effect on my dane. I've decided to send her back to breeder or to a rescue because there is several risks that are compiling.

It is only when you, as a human, stop acting intellectually and emotionally and start acting instinctually that you will start to realize one of the most important things you will ever need to know in order to have a balanced dog. As you work through all of this, your goal is not to make your dog trust, respect, and love you. It is to make yourself trustworthy, respectable, and loveable.
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post #2 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-17-2015, 11:01 PM
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I am sure that this is a very hard decision for you. However, I applaud you for making a move that will hopefully benefit both Delta and your family.

My sole bit of advice, is that if your pup's breeder does not take her back, please spend the effort to re-home her carefully and responsibly. This includes being fully upfront with the issues you have encountered.

There is no blame here. Sometimes dogs and households just don't meld.

I wish you the best...

John
Portland

Last edited by 4x4bike ped; 10-17-2015 at 11:06 PM.
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post #3 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2015, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4bike ped View Post
I am sure that this is a very hard decision for you. However, I applaud you for making a move that will hopefully benefit both Delta and your family.

My sole bit of advice, is that if your pup's breeder does not take her back, please spend the effort to re-home her carefully and responsibly. This includes being fully upfront with the issues you have encountered.

There is no blame here. Sometimes dogs and households just don't meld.

I wish you the best...

John
Portland

Great advice you are getting here. I volunteered at a rescue a few years ago and highly recommend if the breeder is not willing to take Delta back, for you and your family to work with a rescue to find her next forever home. That way a proper home check etc is in place, they can access if she will be a good fit for that particular family etc. The best thing you can do for her is to do what 4x4 suggested and let the rescue know fully what her issues are currently so they can find a foster home that can help her work on these before being placed and to better prepare he next owners for exactly what they will be getting with her (which means they are more prepared and in turn decreases the chance of her being returned again)
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post #4 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2015, 08:33 AM
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Did Delta come from a reputable breeder? Do you have a contract to return? I ask because if her breeder wasn't reputable and no contract, rescue would be your best bet.
Reputable Doberman rescues do a great job making sure the dog is matched with the right candidate and give her a higher chance of finding her forever home.

Good Luck, it is never easy to come to that process but sounds like you are making the right decision for Delta and your family.


"If your dog doesn't like someone you probably shouldn't either." -unknown
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post #5 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2015, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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I told the breeder about everything. still no answer so I guess that is a no.
thanks all for your support. I am really not doing too well. can't stop crying and stomach pains. I feel like I tried everything I could but there's just something things I cannot control. I try to Remember how I got my dane at 6 months and she couldn't walk down the street due tomorrow fear. I'd say we clicked a lot better too. and she is a very stable dog that everyone I know wishes they could take her home. I try to remind myself that delta can have that too like echo has. but I feel sooo bad I wish I could fix everything...Def in a world of pain right now.

It is only when you, as a human, stop acting intellectually and emotionally and start acting instinctually that you will start to realize one of the most important things you will ever need to know in order to have a balanced dog. As you work through all of this, your goal is not to make your dog trust, respect, and love you. It is to make yourself trustworthy, respectable, and loveable.
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post #6 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2015, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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damn word fill strikes again.

It is only when you, as a human, stop acting intellectually and emotionally and start acting instinctually that you will start to realize one of the most important things you will ever need to know in order to have a balanced dog. As you work through all of this, your goal is not to make your dog trust, respect, and love you. It is to make yourself trustworthy, respectable, and loveable.
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post #7 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2015, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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I'm working with a rescue organization. they said they will be calling to go over everything. I'm not sure I can even get through that conversation wo bawling.

It is only when you, as a human, stop acting intellectually and emotionally and start acting instinctually that you will start to realize one of the most important things you will ever need to know in order to have a balanced dog. As you work through all of this, your goal is not to make your dog trust, respect, and love you. It is to make yourself trustworthy, respectable, and loveable.
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post #8 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2015, 12:00 PM
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I'm sorry things are not working out. Please contact a doberman rescue if your breeder does not take her back. Delta needs a fair chance to improve with people who understand the breed and can best help her find the right home.
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post #9 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2015, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traceeyeager View Post
I'm working with a rescue organization. they said they will be calling to go over everything. I'm not sure I can even get through that conversation wo bawling.
I know this must be a hard time for you, but I commend you for doing what's best for Delta in the long run. With the help of the rescue she will be matched with a home that will help her flourish. It will also be a weight off your shoulders as I know you have been going back and forth on this decision for quite some time, dogs are very intune with how humans feel and she may be sensing some tension around her and that's not what you really want for her right? Please keep us posted on her progress with the rescue.
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post #10 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-18-2015, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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yes spoke with my trainer who has been in home and around my other dogs for the past 2 years. what may be a big contributing factor is delta needs to be in a home w no other females. I hoping that will lead to her being a calmer and more relaxed delta and echo back to her level headed un stressed self. none the less still very difficult.

It is only when you, as a human, stop acting intellectually and emotionally and start acting instinctually that you will start to realize one of the most important things you will ever need to know in order to have a balanced dog. As you work through all of this, your goal is not to make your dog trust, respect, and love you. It is to make yourself trustworthy, respectable, and loveable.
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post #11 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-19-2015, 09:44 AM
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Well, good for you for working with getting her a good home. These are however things you need to consider when bringing in a new puppy. Puppies play and are not calm. They need lots of attention and training. Introducing a puppy to a older pet is also vital in the process.
Hopefully, you will take the Dane to obedience group class and give her more confidence and manners.
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post #12 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 05:15 AM Thread Starter
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I'm glad that you think you know my dane and how she is untrained and unmannerly. shes actaully a therapy dog that goes to nursing homes. no one knew that she would have become so maternal and that delta would have become so very overly suspicious in nature and that it would have affected echo as much as it did. when echo decided that she needed to protect her sister and was checking people w her teeth I decided that it had gone too far. I seen warning signs along the way from the time the pup growled at me from 8 or 10 weeks and I had been keeping an eye on everything. but I cannot put other people at risk and that ended up being my determining factor. I did not put her off cause she is a puppy. I love her dearly even though she was a bit of aloof w me I could have done things to work on that. but maybe cause she's so suspicious she could not get so close w me. I don't know but I would have been willing to work through it like all the other troubles I had w her. I was determined to make it through.
and also yes we did introduce them properly from the beggining.
I been at home w the pup and with her 24/7 working with both.
it's one of the hardest decision I've ever had to make and I'm left w huge emptiness wo her here. I did my best for her in all that I did.
overall at the end of the day I had a liability risk w my other dog.

It is only when you, as a human, stop acting intellectually and emotionally and start acting instinctually that you will start to realize one of the most important things you will ever need to know in order to have a balanced dog. As you work through all of this, your goal is not to make your dog trust, respect, and love you. It is to make yourself trustworthy, respectable, and loveable.
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post #13 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 05:25 AM Thread Starter
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Danes are different they do not have as much of a hardness factor to them they have a lot more flight instinct to them and are often prone to some anxiety. confidence in them will not look like a dob but will look like a stable easy go with the flow additude. basically the dob threw off her balance.
do you really think that a proper introduction like we did would have prevented all these problems.
your comments are unlogical to the relevance of the post.

It is only when you, as a human, stop acting intellectually and emotionally and start acting instinctually that you will start to realize one of the most important things you will ever need to know in order to have a balanced dog. As you work through all of this, your goal is not to make your dog trust, respect, and love you. It is to make yourself trustworthy, respectable, and loveable.
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post #14 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 03:40 PM
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traceeyeager, hang in there.
I assume you are talking about puppy age dog, right?

Doberman is not an easy breed to deal with. My first doby was 6 months old and it was 25 years ago. I did not have to deal with the puppy energy as much with him.
My second boy has TONS of energy, partially because I got him at 2mo, back in August. I also have three medium size adult mutts from the rescue and one small terrier we foster for the past few months. Dealing with the puppy doberman for the first two months (and still is) was a nightmare. He would constantly and understandably wanted to play with my adult dogs, they would not want it. Nevertheless, my doby boy is very determined and continues to get in the face of my other dogs. He tries to play with the 10lb foster and he does not understand that his paw weights as much as the little foster and of course he constantly tries to stamp on her in his play mode.
My three adult beaches lived together for 8 years and never had a fight, but that changed once I got the doberman puppy. He has dis-balanced the pack and on top of it he is constantly annoying them. One day doby was getting in the face of the older dog (12yo) and of course she barked on him, because if it my rottweiler mix (8yo) jumped on my older (12yo) and literally tried to kill her. I was not home at the time, my wife was, she said she could not take them apart and the only way she could stop it is to stick her arm into the 8yo mouth. In the midst of the fight the Rotty mix did not realized my wife's arm in her mouth and bit through on one side of her hand and took about 2" of skin on the other side of the arm. My wife called me and I had to rush home to help my wife with the wound. Ever since the incident the 8yo and 12yo are cautious of each other (its been over a month now) and now when we leave dogs without supervision, we have to separate them into different rooms (never had to do it before) and we are constantly watching for the signs of aggression from the 8yo towards older dog.
I guess the moral of the story is that Dobies are not easy puppies to have especially if you already have other dogs. Doby is very determined and hard headed. You have to spend a lot of energy and time to train them right.
Saying all this, I love my Doby boy and would never giving him back even if I had dark thoughts at the beginning. However, I especially AGAINST giving him to the RESCUE/SHELTER. We've dealt with the rescue and foster dogs, and I could never understand why people give up on their dogs.
I am trying to say, don't give up, give him a little more time. Invest into private trainer, have patience....
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post #15 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFBayArea View Post
traceeyeager, hang in there.
I assume you are talking about puppy age dog, right?

Doberman is not an easy breed to deal with. My first doby was 6 months old and it was 25 years ago. I did not have to deal with the puppy energy as much with him.
My second boy has TONS of energy, partially because I got him at 2mo, back in August. I also have three medium size adult mutts from the rescue and one small terrier we foster for the past few months. Dealing with the puppy doberman for the first two months (and still is) was a nightmare. He would constantly and understandably wanted to play with my adult dogs, they would not want it. Nevertheless, my doby boy is very determined and continues to get in the face of my other dogs. He tries to play with the 10lb foster and he does not understand that his paw weights as much as the little foster and of course he constantly tries to stamp on her in his play mode.
My three adult beaches lived together for 8 years and never had a fight, but that changed once I got the doberman puppy. He has dis-balanced the pack and on top of it he is constantly annoying them. One day doby was getting in the face of the older dog (12yo) and of course she barked on him, because if it my rottweiler mix (8yo) jumped on my older (12yo) and literally tried to kill her. I was not home at the time, my wife was, she said she could not take them apart and the only way she could stop it is to stick her arm into the 8yo mouth. In the midst of the fight the Rotty mix did not realized my wife's arm in her mouth and bit through on one side of her hand and took about 2" of skin on the other side of the arm. My wife called me and I had to rush home to help my wife with the wound. Ever since the incident the 8yo and 12yo are cautious of each other (its been over a month now) and now when we leave dogs without supervision, we have to separate them into different rooms (never had to do it before) and we are constantly watching for the signs of aggression from the 8yo towards older dog.
I guess the moral of the story is that Dobies are not easy puppies to have especially if you already have other dogs. Doby is very determined and hard headed. You have to spend a lot of energy and time to train them right.
Saying all this, I love my Doby boy and would never giving him back even if I had dark thoughts at the beginning. However, I especially AGAINST giving him to the RESCUE/SHELTER. We've dealt with the rescue and foster dogs, and I could never understand why people give up on their dogs.
I am trying to say, don't give up, give him a little more time. Invest into private trainer, have patience....

SFbayarea I have to respectfully disagree with you on your mindset of being totally against Rescues when looking to rehome a dog or puppy. The OP has been having numerous issues with this puppy, troubles bonding, has kids and another dog and things just got too crazy for her. For the sake of Delta (the Doberman puppy) and for the owner who has been back and forth on the decision to keep delta has made the choice that tension between her and delta is not fair to her nor the dog. It sounds like she had the best intentions and had a trainer working with her etc. Sometimes things just don't work out and it was a learning experience that maybe a Doberman was not the best breed to fit in her household at this time. Rather than continuing this cycle she was encouraged to reach out to a rescue that specializes in dobermans to help her with the new home search. I do agree with you that there are good and bad rescues out there...the rescues that I have had contact with (our local Doberman rescue is SPDR) have been amazing. Their volunteers are generally those who own the breed themselves, have bred them, etc. they will be able to best access where delta is at and even work with her before rehoming on what she is struggling with so she has less of a chance of being returned. They also do home checks and see if it is suited for such a breed. Obviously, we all hope no dogs would ever have to be returned to a rescue, but she learned and did what was best for delta in the long run. this person also contacted the breeder and had no response so I think she did the most responsible next option.
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post #16 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 06:47 PM
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I am sorry, I disagree on many levels. I see way to many dogs in shelters on a death row and not enough volunteers to foster them.
I believe you are fully responsible for the poor soul you picked from the pet shop, breeder, etc. I also would never believe that you cannot raise a normal dog from a puppy even if that puppy is unruly. I do believe though if you know what you are doing and with time and attention invested into the puppy you will have a normal acting dog.
Puppy is not a toy that you can pick up and in a few months realize its too much for you or the breed is not for you. DO YOUR HOMEWORK, go to shows, talk to people who have puppies. In a normal situation, would you consider your son or daughter is too much for you, or not your sort of thing and give him/her up. Same thing here, I consider my puppies, my dogs are my family - a family who will always depend on me. How can I betray that trust?

I can't believe more people here have not said the same thing I am saying. I also can't believe that more people have not convinced tracee to push through the hard times and seek more professional dog training assistance.

Last edited by SFBayArea; 10-22-2015 at 06:52 PM.
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post #17 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 06:57 PM
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post #18 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 07:05 PM
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I can't believe more people here have not said the same thing I am saying. I also can't believe that more people have not convinced tracee to push through the hard times and seek more professional dog training assistance.
It's totally situational, in this case there is another dog being negatively affected by the addition of the puppy and an owner who has willingly admitted (after already being in training) that she can't and doesn't feel able to handle it.
It's much better the puppy gets a fresh chance and the current dog resumes life as normal than to try to force them and their human parent to work through what may be an awful fit.

Every dog isn't for everyone (regardless of the amount of research put in). At least this person is doing it responsibly and contacting the breeder and a reputable rescue.
It's hard to be honest with yourself sometimes and at least she/he's got the courage to do it.

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post #19 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 07:10 PM
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Didn't mean to like this.....

Do some research, reputable rescues aren't shelters/don't put dogs to sleep due to time in the rescue.

I personally volunteer for a rescue. Doberman specific. And we keep dogs in foster homes as long as needed. Baring aggression or debilitating illness no dogs are euthanized, They're cared for, loved, and safe until the right family comes along.

The Red Devil Diva & Her Shamelessly Obedient Human
Bubba: Allergy King and Chief of Naps
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post #20 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam1491 View Post
It's totally situational, in this case there is another dog being negatively affected by the addition of the puppy and an owner who has willingly admitted (after already being in training) that she can't and doesn't feel able to handle it.
It's much better the puppy gets a fresh chance and the current dog resumes life as normal than to try to force them and their human parent to work through what may be an awful fit.

Every dog isn't for everyone (regardless of the amount of research put in). At least this person is doing it responsibly and contacting the breeder and a reputable rescue.
It's hard to be honest with yourself sometimes and at least she/he's got the courage to do it.
@ Sam.... I totally agree.

@SF... Disagree all you want.... Dobe pups, regardless of the best of intentions and training do not necessarily thrive happily in all homes. IMO, this woman did everything a reasonable person would do to introduce and acclimate her new girl to her home. She is broken hearted, yet she is still doing the right thing.

At some point, if the pup becomes a repeated threat to the safety and well being of her family and pets, the responsible thing to do is to carefully re-home the pup. Especially since this pup is young and been in training since she came home.

This seems to be exactly what the OP is doing.

I think you should reconsider your opinion. IMO, the puppy will be much happier in a different environment. As will her family and her current Dane.

John
Portland OR
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post #21 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 07:43 PM
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Wont even respond as Sam said pretty much everything. If you read back into the OP numerous other threads you would see the whole picture for what it is, not every situation is the same, and in this case they did what was best for deltas mental health and long term happiness. Also like mentioned before shelters and rescues are vastly different, my pit bull came from devore high kill shelter and Iv'e seen the worst. Rescues are not high kill shelters period.
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post #22 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 10:13 PM
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Well I am sorry to hear about your loss. I think I read your post the other night. You see I just got myself a doberman puppy as well she has been with us about a month now, she is now 3 months old when I got her she was 9.

This being my 3rd puppy I was pretty prepared. This is my First Doberman, not getting her ears fixed since she will just be a family dog I have not found her to difficult. She is indeed a rare breed I must say very keen to her environment, she has had a couple behavior problems but I corrected them quickly and I also have a older pound dog in my home who has groomed her as well.. I knew doberman's were good dogs from when I stayed with my mother during a summer or 2, her husband was a breeder very loyal and protective and above all else highly intelligent.

What I am getting at, is don't give up these dogs are really special. Yet if it cannot be fixed you have to do what you have to do.. Dobermans need a certain master for sure..

Good Luck op. I hope it works out for you and the puppy.
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post #23 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-22-2015, 10:21 PM
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Sometimes what's best for the dog is NOT to stay in their current home.

Griffin came from a breed rescue/ SPCA. He's been my constant companion for 7.5 years now.

It honestly takes more guts to admit when something is simply not working and then to do something about it. It takes more guts to admit that sometimes what is in the dog's best interest is to find another home for the dog. Not try to tough it out and ruin the dog, or make the dog and your family miserable.

My Dobes have been hand me down dogs. In Logan's case, he was a terrible fit for his second home but a wonderful fit for my home. He wound up helping a friend of mine with PTSD, and was a very good dog.

So kudos for doing what's right for the dog. Breed rescues are great resources, and they screen homes so that the dog will find the right place.
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post #24 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-23-2015, 06:16 AM Thread Starter
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hi.
I sent delta to doberman rescue. she is gone yesterday morning and it's one of the hardest things I had to do. I had my husband drive her straight there so there was no switching vechiles. for those of you who think maybe I wasn't truely committed to her in the long run. we had bought a 9 thousand dollars fence just for delta that is already paid for and is getting installed next week and their will be no delta there. I really wanted to hang on to her but after my echo nipped a person for the 3rd and has been getting aggressive due to the puppy's impact on her that was my sign from above. I'm not very interested in lawsuits or anyone getting hurt because of dogs. I evaluated for myself also that I think delta didn't want to bond with me too much because of the environment with so many dogs n kids she was so interested in everything else but my touch. one of my reason for doing this is that I feel delta has more potential to have more focus on her future master w less in the environment. I hope that the environment change helps and she becomes less suspicious. and again I had a trainer a canine therapist who told me delta would need a no female home and that even with me managing the situation to my best ability that they would have better lives apart. I contacted the rescue and talked with her. she said it's only the beggining and it could get a lot worse if I continue. and i know dobermans arent like a lab. i had friends who would have liked to have her and i could kept tabs on her returned to me so i knew dob are special and not something to fool around w so i decided to do rescue . I know that some of you disagree with sending her to the rescue but after contacting several sources telling my story everyone said it was for the best. I tried to scan my brain for solutions til I couldn't anymore. for those saying puppies require time I was with her 24/7 I made it my sole job to raise her. I swear ppl don't read the posts. I cannot tell you how hard it was to come to a conclusion like this. I basically had to put aside all my selfish wants of the relationship I wanted to have w delta I had to know that some ppl would disagree or look down on me I had to actually be very embarrassed when I did email call the rescue. it's a very hard thing to do. her last day here I spent morning til night w her and tried to soak up the last minutes of everything I could w bursting into tears happening often. after she left I cried from 8 am to 2 pm straight and couldn't move or get out of bed at all. and I'm not done crying yet. when this happens you grieve like someone has died but just all my dreams died. the worst part is I took her everywhere I go regularly and the memories are everywhere I turn. I like to think that I really did the hard part and spent a lot of time training and she'll be more prepared for her next home cause she really could a been off the chain. from what I hear delta is doing a lot better than me right now and seemed to transition seamlessly.

It is only when you, as a human, stop acting intellectually and emotionally and start acting instinctually that you will start to realize one of the most important things you will ever need to know in order to have a balanced dog. As you work through all of this, your goal is not to make your dog trust, respect, and love you. It is to make yourself trustworthy, respectable, and loveable.
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post #25 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-23-2015, 06:25 AM Thread Starter
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any this has relevance how? aka why the hell. nobody is taking about dumping her somewhere.

It is only when you, as a human, stop acting intellectually and emotionally and start acting instinctually that you will start to realize one of the most important things you will ever need to know in order to have a balanced dog. As you work through all of this, your goal is not to make your dog trust, respect, and love you. It is to make yourself trustworthy, respectable, and loveable.
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