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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2014, 01:08 AM Thread Starter
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Question Puppy?

Hello, I am new to this forum. I have a question to someone who been working with Dobermans, and have experience. I have a male dobe. puppy Ares, who just turned 8 months. At height of 29 inches, he is 88 pounds. Looks slim and fit. I am not sure thou, if Dobermans in average grow little more (and the fixed one grow even more), how big is my dog will be at maturity? When my husband wanted a smaller dog, I assured him that we are getting the dog that will be about 90 pounds. Maybe I should switch his food (from Blue Buffalo Wilderness Large Puppy) to something else? Or it is no point to fight with genes? Or just hope that he will not grow anymore? Help!!!
I will try to post fresh pictures tomorrow, if that helps.
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2014, 01:32 AM
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I have copied this from the DPCA standard:

SIZE, PROPORTION, SUBSTANCE

Height at the withers: Dogs 26 to 28 inches, ideal about 27 1/2 inches; Bitches 24 to 26 inches, ideal about 25 1/2 inches. The height, measured vertically from the ground to the highest point of the withers, equaling the length measured horizontally from the forechest to the rear projection of the upper thigh. Length of head, neck and legs in proportion to length and depth of body.

I'm sorry, but it sounds like you are going to have an oversized (not within the standard) dog. At only 8 months, he may continue to gain height until he is 18months old, and will continue to fill out until he is around two.
I am not trying to be rude, but where did you dog come from? Where his parents oversized? There is a trend for many less reputable breeders to breed oversized dobermans as a marketing ploy--unfortunately increased size is often associated with increased risk for health concerns, as these breeders also rarely test for genetic health concerns or concern them selves with health and longevity when breeding.
Is your dog neutered? Some dogs, when neutered young will tend to grow taller, but they don't tend to fill out in the same manner as a dog who is neutered at 18 months to 2 years in age.
Have you contacted his breeder? It would be interesting to see how his siblings are turning out.
If he is not fat, and you have been feeding him high quality food (with no intentions of trying to encourage growth by over feeding and supplementation) you will likely just have to wait untill his genes say "stop".
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2014, 01:35 AM
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I would like to add that there are a lot of people who are not a huge fan of blue buffalo foods. I'm not sure what the issues are exactly, and in am sure someone with more knowledge or experience will chime in. But I do know that there are better quality foods available. FROMM, Orijen, Acana, and Taste of The Wild come into mind--as these are available locally for myself.

Please do share pictures of your boy... We will be able to give you opinions on his condition and we also LOVE to be introduced to new members dogs
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2014, 07:39 AM
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Our boy is 8 months and only 65 pounds, and stands at about 25.5 inches tall (for reference). My pups father topped out at 90lbs and 28inches once full grown. Our boy should be roughy the same, give or take a bit.

We feed Acana Ranchlands and he has grown nice and slow.

Your boy is certainly on the bigger side, as stated above, 29 inches is outside of the standard. He is certainly not done growing yet, either. Where his parents large? Is he neutered? Do you know his pedigree? Many factors come into play.

Large puppy foods are iffy, I've never heard good things about them or about Blue Buffalo. I'd certainly switch foods if you can!

Keep an eye out for joint issues and health problems later in life, growing too fast and too big causes a lot of issues for dogs.

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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2014, 08:05 AM
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https://www.dobermantalk.com/food-fee...-pet-food.html
Here's a good one to get you started your research.

IMO, BB is overpriced garbage. ...and I used to feed it to my last two dogs. Then I started looking past the slick marketing and BB pushers in Petsmart. I have a whole bag sitting in my laundry room, waiting for the day I can return it for a full refund. *
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2014, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you everybody for participating. Breeder is a well known one in Texas. I new Ares has a European blood line in him, and his father about 100 pounds. Mother on another hand is small. I've heard that puppies pick up mother's traits in majority. He is very proportional to me, and doesn't have any health problems, according to my vet. You can feel some ribs and some waist line. We had to neuter him at 6,5 months, because it was originally companion dog. And we didn't want to make poor dog suffer. He was normal size puppy at 2 months, but started growing just as brought him home. He is a very balanced dog. Extremely smart and loyal. He is super well trained. He is good with kids. But very soon my house will be too small for all of us!!!!
I will try to switch food. My choice for Blue Buffalo was based on dog food advisor, I was looking for 5 star and available in a local Petsmart.
It is so hard to take pictures for one person, so pic maybe all sort of crazy, sorry. Plus I am not quite good with last Windows program, for that reason I couldn't flip some pic.
I also attached puppies pedigree. Just for info.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2014, 11:02 AM
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looks like he is in ok weight.......might be a couple pounds overweight.....

who measured his height?, I often wonder if correct heights are being taken. a good description of the proper way to measure the height of a dog............. http://mygermanshepherd.org/how-to-m...ht-and-weight/

looks to have good bone and body on him, but as mentioned 29 is oversized for our breed.....

I have had dogs gain their full adult height around your boys age, they just got 'wider' and deeper bodies as they matured.

but most did grow about an inch after 8 months of age.

and, yes, there is no point to fight with genes.



Hugz to Ares.

Last edited by Darkevs; 11-11-2014 at 11:17 AM.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2014, 11:07 AM
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"well known" doesn't necessarily mean reputable. care to share?

and the breeder should be able to tell you what to expect in an adult dog from their lines.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2014, 11:24 AM
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I like to see my dogs really lean, but for a puppy I think he looks good. He is a handsome devil for sure. I thinks he is going to grow untill his body figures it done. I agree with Darkevs--I see people all the time guesstimate the weight of there dogs--way over guesstimate size as well. Was he weighed at the vet? And how did you measure him?

If you share his pedigree some one may be able to pipe in and tell you more about his parents/lines and how much Alegre he may get.
No matter how much he grows and how he turns out--the most important thing is that he is well loved and his physical and mental needs are met.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2014, 11:44 AM
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29" at 8 months is oversized. And 88lbs... He does appear to be a bit overweight. Leaner is better as it places less stress on joints.

Euro lines does not mean extreme over sized.

My euro boy is 28" and hovers at 80-84 lbs. he's also 3 years old and in exceptional shape.

As Falnfenix said well known doesn't mean reputable.

Bb foods are not the best option, especially now that they've admitted to using by product meals.


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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2014, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gia View Post
Thank you everybody for participating. Breeder is a well known one in Texas. I new Ares has a European blood line in him, and his father about 100 pounds. Mother on another hand is small. ----------------- I also attached puppies pedigree. Just for info.
I didn't see a pedigree, but if I would hazard a guess, I'd say either Lonestar in the Baytown area or SuperDobes? If so, neither on are considered reputable breeders.


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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2014, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone. I am not a professional breeder nor person with experience on this breed, so mentioning "well known" will refer to couple people who purchased and had puppies with them, also some internet research. I was looking for Doberman puppy in general for my sons 3 year old birthday. Height measure was done in vet office, and 10 more times by couple different people with some internet help. Weight also gets measured once a week at the vet office, since his training classes are in the same facility. I am watching for him not to get overweighed. Puppy food was switched couple times, due to excessive gas or skin condition, also some grain intolerance leading to diarrhea. Blue Buffalo seems to meet all the requirements. I just thought maybe he is growing rapidly because of this food. He eats twice a day, and only eats half of what states as feeding guidance.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2014, 11:38 PM
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I'm sorry I need to measure my dog again (he's either running, or sleeping). He's 6 1/2 months and about 65lbs, but he is very athletic. Any comparison?
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2014, 11:40 PM Thread Starter
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I have this guilty feeling following me everywhere. Like I am doing something wrong. Maybe it is just large dog, and it is not going to depend on feeding or anything else? Problem is that there is no proportions for oversized dog, so where is the line whether your dog is still growing or turning to obese one?
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 12:08 AM
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Weight won't be the disqualifier for meeting the breed standard--rather height is, as I mentioned above. There are no specific numbers that will tell you if your boy is overweight. It is based on look and feel.

I believe that dobes do best in a body condition scale of 3-4. They are a lean athlete breed, and should be built like an athlete. You should see muscle definition--participularly in the"butt" and upper arm areas. You should be able to easily feel ALL the ribs and bony prominences of the spine. When viewing the dog from above, you should notice a definite waist. You should be able to see the last few ribs. Being a pup still, your boy probably still has some excess skin for growing, so it may be a little more difficult to tell how fit he really is. Vets tend to allow dogs to run a little on the chubby size.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 12:18 AM
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Yikes... Has anyone noticed that the #9 lab looks like the modern day show lab? Anyways... Back on topic.
Here is my girl at 6 months. Probably a body condition 4-5. Not a lot of muscle tone as she was still very much a baby



Here is Phoenix at 9 months, probably around a four. Her last few ribs were easily visible with movement, but not showing up readily in the photo :/ she is still lacking the muscle and chest that she has now at almost two. She is a short girl (still within the standard) at 24.5" and 68 lbs-- she is quite "thick" for a girl with a notable chest and neck

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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 12:33 AM
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Nice dogs Ma!
I believe if a dog's AKC registration starts with a "W" and is a Doberman, they should show muscles after 6 months. If it's some chunky lap dog with no working physique, they ought not be in the show ring. Working breed dogs that are creme de la creme need to show a good physique. Don't really care about the cosmetic garbage. It's a working dog.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gia View Post
I have this guilty feeling following me everywhere. Like I am doing something wrong. Maybe it is just large dog, and it is not going to depend on feeding or anything else? Problem is that there is no proportions for oversized dog, so where is the line whether your dog is still growing or turning to obese one?
From looking at his pedigree, I'd say you simply purchased him from someone who would be called a "backyard breeder". His pedigree looks pretty typical of a dog from that type of breeder. Neither his sire nor dam have any AKC titles (not even a CGC), nor do they have any health testing listed on the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals website. Also, the dam whelped this litter 9 days before her second birthday.

It's probable that this person subscribes to the "Euros are bigger" hogwash, and is deliberately breeding for oversized dogs. And it is hogwash, because the height difference between the AKC standard and the FCI (international standard used in most of Europe) is just under an inch.


~~~The Current Hellhounds~~~
Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L5/CH ADP-L1(Pr)/L2(Pr) GPS-NST OD-WD2
CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L5/CH S-ADP-L1(Pr)/L2(Pr) GPS-NST OD-WD2
~~~Requiescat In Pace~~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 08:21 AM
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This chart shows the differences in breeder "types".


~~~The Current Hellhounds~~~
Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L5/CH ADP-L1(Pr)/L2(Pr) GPS-NST OD-WD2
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~~~Requiescat In Pace~~~
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 08:28 AM
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I love that chart! I posted it once in a local fb group and ooooh the greeders were 'offended'

I skipped and danced and laughed and laughed.


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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 09:10 AM
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Your pup has absolutely zero conformation champions in his pedigree. This is why he is over sized - his lineage more than likely does not have proper conformation.

"stay hungry, stay foolish."
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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 10:14 AM
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Based on your first post, you already know that your dog is outside the parameters of the breed standard for size. In my opinion, the best thing to do with that knowledge is to follow the body condition score chart provided above and just keep your dog in his best body condition. Do your best by your dog to keep him as healthy and happy as you are able.
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-12-2014, 05:57 PM
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By 8 months, you can switch him to an adult kibble. Blue Buffalo is ok, but you can do better. See if you can find a good feed store with knowledgeable staff and talk to them about what to feed.

At 29" he is oversized by about an inch - at 8 months of age, I'd say he isn't done. Be very careful about controlling his exercise - you don't want him to overdo it because he could easily injure himself - no forced exercise. Others have commented about his weight - which may be fine... just don't let him get heavy. 100 lbs would be overweight.

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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-17-2014, 02:30 PM
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Hello! He is cute! Doesn't look like he;s from a reputable breeder. Seems there are a few well known but not good breeders in TX, I'm in TX too. Well I don't see how he's too big for the house just being a little bigger than standard. Dobes are a bigger breed in general and surely not a small dog in general even within breed standard. I would suggest Nature's Variety Instinct or Wellness Core if you need a good food from Petsmart. Both are better than Blue in my opinion for sure. Early neutering also changes how the dog grows and early neutered pets tend to grow taller due to the growth plates not receiving proper amount of hormones.
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-17-2014, 04:49 PM
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Just food for thought... some lines tend to mature early and some late. He may significant;y slow down on his growth earlier than later. Fingers crossed for you.


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