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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-21-2014, 03:01 PM
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Just have to say that is the sweetest little face int the world. Good luck to you and your pup, I hope it can be corrected by diet and outgrown.
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-21-2014, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pattym View Post
I was going to stay out of this but, sorry, I can't.

Why would a breeder send a puppy like that into someone's home before the problem is resolved? What a heartbreaker. Thank you for all you are doing for this poor guy but it is a situation you should never have been placed in. As other have said, get multiple opinions and don't get stampeded into surgery before you are sure it's the right thing to do.

What should breeders do with these. Not this. Twenty years ago I was shipped a dobie puppy that was vwd positive with a roaring case of cystitis. We were at the vets every week for months. Died before the age of four with a hemorrhage in the lung. Yes, guys, she came from a highly reputable show breeder you all would know.

Back when I was breeding, 35-40 years ago I had a pup with cystitis. Kept her until is was resolved at six months before she was placed in a great home housebroken and with basic obedience training. Another pup once had a problem the vet couldn't seem to figure out and I had two homes that wanted her so much they would take her with the problem. Fortunately I held her back and the problem got worse and was finally determined to be a serious congenital defect and she had to be euthanized. Responsible breeding is tough and sometimes heartbreaking but you have no right to dump it on a loving family.

The breeder said his legs looked "95% better." I told her I was fine with them not being completely better as long she she was 100% sure they would straighten out. She was and still is so she let me have him. I'm not sure if 1. She is right and he will be fine, 2. She was lying about him being better/getting better or 3. She genuinely thinks he will get better but he will not.

I'm wondering if this is the same breeder that you are talking about. I feel really bad for this dog. On one hand, I paid a lot of money for him and I want a healthy dog but on the other hand, in less than a week, I've bonded with him and I don't want him to go back. I worry about what will happen to him if I give him back. Judging from a lot of his behaviors I can tell that he hasn't had as much socialization as he should have, has been kept in a kennel way too much and has had almost no training. At four months, I was expecting him to at least know "sit."
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-21-2014, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Just have to say that is the sweetest little face int the world. Good luck to you and your pup, I hope it can be corrected by diet and outgrown.
Thanks He has a wonderful personality too. I really hope he'll be okay.
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-21-2014, 06:27 PM
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The breeder said his legs looked "95% better." I told her I was fine with them not being completely better as long she she was 100% sure they would straighten out. She was and still is so she let me have him. I'm not sure if 1. She is right and he will be fine, 2. She was lying about him being better/getting better or 3. She genuinely thinks he will get better but he will not.

I'm wondering if this is the same breeder that you are talking about. I feel really bad for this dog. On one hand, I paid a lot of money for him and I want a healthy dog but on the other hand, in less than a week, I've bonded with him and I don't want him to go back. I worry about what will happen to him if I give him back. Judging from a lot of his behaviors I can tell that he hasn't had as much socialization as he should have, has been kept in a kennel way too much and has had almost no training. At four months, I was expecting him to at least know "sit."(Laureen#26)

I doubt it's the same breeder. They don't breed much anymore. Anyway your bonded with him now and he's your boy and he looks like a beautiful sweet boy. Sounds like your doing everything you can for him so let's hope it all turns out ok with him.
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-21-2014, 06:35 PM
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Since you love the puppy, if you don't trust the breeder this is already a bad sign. Like I said normally, the box will correct fast if you take him off the high protein food. You need something less than 24% and no supplements. When they grow so fast this can happen. I don't know your puppy but this is not that rare, nor common, but it can happen most often with large fast growing puppies. Then, again he could have something more serious. Have you changed his food and tried this?
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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-21-2014, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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Since you love the puppy, if you don't trust the breeder this is already a bad sign. Like I said normally, the box will correct fast if you take him off the high protein food. You need something less than 24% and no supplements. When they grow so fast this can happen. I don't know your puppy but this is not that rare, nor common, but it can happen most often with large fast growing puppies. Then, again he could have something more serious. Have you changed his food and tried this?
The food he is on now is 23% protein, as was the one the breeder was feeding him. I don't think he was ever on high protein food.

Edited to add: You say no supplements. Not even vitamin C? I've been giving him vitamin C and glucosamine but I'll try a couple days without and see if there's a difference.

Last edited by Laureen; 04-21-2014 at 07:34 PM.
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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-21-2014, 07:43 PM
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good read Growth Disorders in Young German Shepherds | German Shepherd Dog Club of Victoria

"Osteochondrosis and joint dysplasias have been studied in many species, in particular in pigs. Where the animals were selected for increasingly heavy end weight and rapidity of weight gain, the higher the incidence of symmetrical lesions in certain sites in joints and many growth plates. Experimentally in pigs, the incidence and severity of OCD was directly related to rapid growth ie. rate of weight gain.

When the diet was restricted and grown at a low growth rate, the incidence of OCD was dramatically reduced (almost to zero).

All dog studies in this area have shown to support the concept that the high caloric intake rather than the specific intake of protein, minerals or vitamins influences the frequency and severity of osteochondrosis and HD. The causes of ED while not as thoroughly studied, show similarities and probably similar outcomes.

The common conclusion from studies in dog is that excessive calcium, phosphorus and vitamin D along with a high energy diet and rapid weight gain causing rapid growth, are almost an ideal recipe for pushing the parameters for normal structural growth and joint soundness well beyond their normal limits, resulting in joint disorders. The higher incidence of osteochondrosis in males versus females is probably a direct reflection of this as males are often ¼ heavier than females at any one time, despite being born at a comparative weight.

Equally, this is not to say that genetics does not pay an important part in the body’s structural soundness, however excessive rates of weight gain and thus rapid growth result in pushing the body’s parameters beyond which they can cope, particularly if they were not the most structurally stable to start with. That is, excessive rate of growth and weight will not create severe HD or ED in itself; however, it can make an existing problem considerably worse."
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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-21-2014, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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The common conclusion from studies in dog is that excessive calcium, phosphorus and vitamin D along with a high energy diet and rapid weight gain causing rapid growth, are almost an ideal recipe for pushing the parameters for normal structural growth and joint soundness well beyond their normal limits, resulting in joint disorders. The higher incidence of osteochondrosis in males versus females is probably a direct reflection of this as males are often ¼ heavier than females at any one time, despite being born at a comparative weight.
Thanks for that. He's 17 weeks and 32 lbs. I actually just increased his food today because he was looking way skinny. I don't think he's eating too much and the calcium/phosphorus of his food is below 1.3%. I think the fish oil has vitamin D though so I will stop giving him that and see if that helps. Some folks on a Labrador Retriever forum were suggesting the fish oil for similar problems.

The food that the Great Dane Lady swears by is supposed to arrive tomorrow and I'm hoping that will make a difference! I emailed the xrays to several specialists but I'm still waiting to hear back from them.
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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-22-2014, 05:29 AM
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Another thing to check is parasites or bacterial infections like tick fever. It probably isn't that but I would worm him at least just in case.
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post #35 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-19-2020, 02:13 AM
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Years later but curious - how’s ur pup doing now? Did the legs straighten out?
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post #36 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-19-2020, 09:09 AM
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Years later but curious - how’s ur pup doing now? Did the legs straighten out?
She's not been back on the forum in 6 years.


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