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Sam1491 02-14-2013 09:26 PM

The Rally Thread
 
11 Attachment(s)
A thread for newbies, proffesionals, and overall discussions on rally :)

I'll start,

Any tips for a newbie? I want to enter mabel soonish, she has a solid regular competition obedience foundation minus the stand for exams (the exam part) but rally is pretty much foreign to me and what i've seen so far of the signs gets me rather confused...they just seem so redundant.

Any moves that aren't in your beginner novice through excellent classes? (before open and utility style stuff)

miranadobe 02-14-2013 10:38 PM

I love talking about Rally, but I only know about AKC rally.
Some of the signs are redundant for the sake of laying out a course (right/left) and also to build skills for the next level (Figure 8s with and without distractions, Halt-Turn vs Halt/Pivot - which I find redundant if you just train a pivot, but that is another story.)

What do you mean: "Any moves that aren't in your beginner novice through excellent classes? (before open and utility style stuff)"? BN Obed has a sit-for-exam, Nov Obed has stand-for-exam but AKC Rally never has the judge put his/her hands on the dog. Or are you looking for things you'd do in Rally that you'd never do in Obed?

Sam1491 02-14-2013 10:41 PM

11 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by miranadobe (Post 1389706)
I love talking about Rally, but I only know about AKC rally.
Some of the signs are redundant for the sake of laying out a course (right/left) and also to build skills for the next level (Figure 8s with and without distractions, Halt-Turn vs Halt/Pivot - which I find redundant if you just train a pivot, but that is another story.)

What do you mean: "Any moves that aren't in your beginner novice through excellent classes? (before open and utility style stuff)"? BN Obed has a sit-for-exam, Nov Obed has stand-for-exam but AKC Rally never has the judge put his/her hands on the dog. Or are you looking for things you'd do in Rally that you'd never do in Obed?

Yes to the bold, just wondering if there is anything new to train, like I know for example there is a "back up" sign

And yea, the like stop halt stop or something like that, i overthink them they are so redundant. I just stare at it like...ok this can't be that complicated?...or is it lol

miranadobe 02-14-2013 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam1491 (Post 1389714)
Yes to the bold, just wondering if there is anything new to train, like I know for example there is a "back up" sign

And yea, the like stop halt stop or something like that, i overthink them they are so redundant. I just stare at it like...ok this can't be that complicated?...or is it lol

Well, I'm not sure which sign you mean there, but there are some signs that seem to overstate and others that seem to say something other than what it means. ie, inconsistencies. ;)

The Send To Jump is at an angle/in a way that you wouldn't do in Obed.

You don't do a German Left (in AKC Rally called Left About Turn) in AKC Obed, but you do in SchH.

The Leave Dog 2 Steps Call to Heel isn't something you'd do in Obed, and there's plenty of interpretation on how that one is supposed vs allowed to be executed.

There's also stuff where the rules say things, people interpret multiple ways, and then the AKC puts it in the newsletters to the judges on how they expect them to judge it, so it's helpful/useful to read those.

Sam1491 02-15-2013 12:04 AM

11 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by miranadobe (Post 1389866)
Well, I'm not sure which sign you mean there, but there are some signs that seem to overstate and others that seem to say something other than what it means. ie, inconsistencies. ;)

The Send To Jump is at an angle/in a way that you wouldn't do in Obed.

You don't do a German Left (in AKC Rally called Left About Turn) in AKC Obed, but you do in SchH.

The Leave Dog 2 Steps Call to Heel isn't something you'd do in Obed, and there's plenty of interpretation on how that one is supposed vs allowed to be executed.

There's also stuff where the rules say things, people interpret multiple ways, and then the AKC puts it in the newsletters to the judges on how they expect them to judge it, so it's helpful/useful to read those.

Good things to know,
I know when I was talking to the judge (who teaches other judges) he was saying that even he gets what we mean about the signs and that when they're done by people behind a desk who don't compete, if they even have a dog that's where a lot of the redundancy and weird phrasing comes from.

Any tips on teaching the back up? she seems to think it means sit since that's her auto feature.

Her stand right now she pops the front of me from my side but I can fix that :P

Isn't there one in the Execellent level, where you have to turn in a circle and have the dog go backwards? Or should I go to bed and come back tomorrow lol, I'm trying to remember what I saw two weekends ago when I stewarded.

sandy2233 02-15-2013 01:36 AM

I taught Emily back up next to the couch in my living room. You can use a wall too. In fact, I will use a wall for a tune up before a class that has a back up in it. I show RE and I am not familar with the turn in a circle and back up. There is a station where you are in forward motion and you have to back up 3 steps and then move on. Also there is a go to front and back up one, then two, then three steps. You can download all the new signs from the AKC site or you can buy the book. Think they run around $7 or $8. Reccomended reading for sure. Good Luck in your Rally ventures.

the_discowhore 02-15-2013 02:00 AM

I taught back up next to a wall too, in fact I taught back up to teach nice left turns :)

Rosemary 02-15-2013 08:19 AM

I think for the most part, the signs are pretty much self-explainatory, although every now and then, one throws me. Did you get a copy of the regulations? They have an explaination of each sign at the end.

I think the move you are thinking of (the circle with the dog walking backwards) is actually the 270 and 360 turn to the left. If you do it as a very small circle, then, yes, the dog might end up walking backwards to stay in position. The second station in this video is a 360 to the left. Ilka @ LCCOC May 27, 2012 - YouTube

Sam1491 02-15-2013 09:07 AM

11 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by sandy2233 (Post 1390138)
I taught Emily back up next to the couch in my living room. You can use a wall too. In fact, I will use a wall for a tune up before a class that has a back up in it. I show RE and I am not familar with the turn in a circle and back up. There is a station where you are in forward motion and you have to back up 3 steps and then move on. Also there is a go to front and back up one, then two, then three steps. You can download all the new signs from the AKC site or you can buy the book. Think they run around $7 or $8. Reccomended reading for sure. Good Luck in your Rally ventures.


I saw this one(the circle thing), and hmm it's probably like Rosemary said, it just looks like a circle from outside the ring.

As to the bold, yea I saw that in the RE class my friend got her title from, i've tried the couch for the back up...auto sit, it's helping nicely on our stand command applying to next to me not auto in front of me.
The one judge was suggesting to start from the base and work on a stand by using your opposite of dog leg to touch their toes or belly so they stand, then move to taking one step back for a week or so with a massive party and build from there...or something like that. I never have a pen and paper when I need it lol.

We have all the beginner signs printed out, and I'll probably invest in the book as well as print off all the reg.'s

Thanks for all the help everyone, I guarantee I'll be overthinking and making it more complicated than necessary as I usually do lol

dax0402 02-15-2013 01:54 PM

You will do great. Baron and I learned on our own through the signs themselves (which I got on e-bay already laminated) and books and a DVD. The books were "Rally On" by Marie Sawford and "Click Your Way to Rally Obedience" by Pamela S. Dennison. Can't find the DVD at the moment but got the books and the DVD through J&J Dog Supplies: J and J Dog Supplies: Agility

Also, used the AKC rule book which also helped me understand the stations and rules. I think there are new excercises that were added last year so if you don't have an older AKC rule book, I would get a newer one.

I loved Rally and had a lot of fun with it. We did Rally after we had our CD so we had to enter the B classes.

When we practiced, sometimes we would set up a small course and sometimes just practice two or three excercises at a time. Like to mix it up.

Best of luck and have fun!

Dobelove 02-15-2013 02:11 PM

I think the backing up three steps is only in excellent. But I taught Avril by standing in front of her and stepping into her and saying "back, back, stand". Once she got that I slowly started moving to her side and saying it.

They have all the signs on the AKC site somewhere and before each run they have walk throughs. Usually the other exhibitors are more than willing to help if you get confused.

Rosemary 02-15-2013 03:08 PM

You can either order a booklet with the rules, or you can be cheap like me, and just download them, and print them yourself (faster, too). http://images.akc.org/pdf/rulebooks/RO2999.pdf (Obedience and rally are in the same booklet) This is the link to download the signs. I just printed out the new ones, and put them in sheet protectors. (I already had a set off of eBay that weren't laminated, so I just needed the new ones.) http://classic.akc.org/pdfs/events/rally/signs_2012.pdf

Oh, and for the three steps backwards, I don't use the word "back", I just say "heel", and start walking backwards. I honestly don't remember how I taught her to heel backwards, but I think I just started with her standing beside me, and told her to "heel", and took a step back. Now, she can heel backwards for quite a bit, from either moving forward, or from a sit.

Sam1491 02-16-2013 12:02 AM

11 Attachment(s)
Thanks for all the support and help guys :)

It's just so foreign to me and obedience has always been about specifics and remembering not reading lol

I know some aren't until excellent but I'd like to be prepared for all levels since the beginner we pretty much are and that's just my style for this sort of thing. We have all the beginner signs printed out (another one of my mothers begun and unfinished hannah training ideas :rolleyesww:) I'll have to pull them out and see. Then we have a drop in rally class I am off work for this coming Monday after Hannahs "obedience" class. Maybe I'll run her through.

Thanks again guys.

Any general tips and tricks you've learned? Personal problem areas?

It's not just me that can benefit :)

Jenny 02-16-2013 08:01 AM

The Rally Thread
 
We take a rally class. It's lots of fun with a great group of people. The dogs are all different levels some are working on their REAs out her just starting out. Vader has on RE leg so we are getting there! Don't know if I will continue on and go for his RAE.


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Rosemary 02-16-2013 11:08 PM

I finally got around to printing out the UKC Rally rules and signs. (Methinks me needs a new color cartridge. :D) Figured I'd go ahead and learn them too, just in case there is an event around my neck of the woods. While most of them are pretty much the same, there are a few things that are different, like the spirals not being done in the same pattern. They also have one that seems pretty confusing where you leave your dog, you run a few steps, and then call the dog to front while you are running. Really? That sounds.... difficult.

Sam1491 02-16-2013 11:12 PM

11 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosemary (Post 1396682)
I finally got around to printing out the UKC Rally rules and signs. (Methinks me needs a new color cartridge. :D) Figured I'd go ahead and learn them too, just in case there is an event around my neck of the woods. While most of them are pretty much the same, there are a few things that are different, like the spirals not being done in the same pattern. They also have one that seems pretty confusing where you leave your dog, you run a few steps, and then call the dog to front while you are running. Really? That sounds.... difficult.

Yes and no, have you ever done a run away from your pup as it's coming to help reinforce come? Or done a backwards run/skip to reinforce a close fast front?
It's the same thing, it's honestly a training trick of mine :D

I bet you're overthinking it....like I do with most of the signs :P

Rosemary 02-16-2013 11:29 PM

Knowing me, I'd trip over my poor dog. :) I've done the run backwards thing, but I don't remember ever turning and running, and then having the dog do a front at a run. I guess I just need to study the explanation of the station a bit more in depth. I just sorta skimmed.

Jenny 02-26-2013 12:30 PM

Just thought I'd brag on my handsome boy. . . finished his RE this past weekend. Now on to his RAE!

Lori Z 02-26-2013 12:49 PM

Way to go Jenny!!:bier:

vivienne00 02-26-2013 12:54 PM

Where's that winning shot from home with his ribbons? Such a beautiful boy needs to be shared a bit more. I love V! You 2 rock!

Jenny 02-26-2013 12:58 PM


Rosemary 02-26-2013 03:07 PM

Maybe I'm being overly ambitious, but I've downloaded the UKC and ASCA Obedience and Rally rules and signs. I figure even if the girls and I never actually get around to competing in their venues, it wouldn't hurt to be familiar with them, just in case. ASCA has some interesting stations.

miranadobe 02-26-2013 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam1491 (Post 1393762)
Any general tips and tricks you've learned? Personal problem areas?

It's not just me that can benefit :)

Teach a kickback stand, not the step-forward. (My mistake made 7 years ago and am not going to fix now.) With some of the stationary combination stands (into downs/from sits) some judges are really critical if your dog gets out of heel position as it transitions from one position (sit/stand) to another (down/sit/stand). So if your dog steps with his back legs rather than his front, you will control heel position.

You will likely make a lot of fast progress through Novice and Advanced. (Hey, we've got Dobes, they make it exponentially easier than some other breeds!) Expect to lose some traction as you get into Excellent. It will prove where your foundation was lacking - so, in other words, don't be in a rush to get through Novice & Advanced because you might not be as solid as you think. Then also realize that learning and reliably executing the Excellent level stuff could take longer than it took you to do Nov/Adv. Don't get frustrated if that happens.

My best piece of advice though is to be a good sport. Nothing ruins this like the folks who don't respect the honest efforts it takes to get there, whether by cheating their way through or dismissing the hard work of others.

slh6a 03-02-2013 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miranadobe (Post 1443346)
You will likely make a lot of fast progress through Novice and Advanced. (Hey, we've got Dobes, they make it exponentially easier than some other breeds!) Expect to lose some traction as you get into Excellent. It will prove where your foundation was lacking - so, in other words, don't be in a rush to get through Novice & Advanced because you might not be as solid as you think. Then also realize that learning and reliably executing the Excellent level stuff could take longer than it took you to do Nov/Adv. Don't get frustrated if that happens.

My best piece of advice though is to be a good sport. Nothing ruins this like the folks who don't respect the honest efforts it takes to get there, whether by cheating their way through or dismissing the hard work of others.

I totally agree about blowing right through classes! My advice, fail early. I promise is it slightly devastating when you mess up (you not the dog). If you mess up one time early then if you do later it won't be so hard. On our second day out I blew right past a "down" sign. DOWN! Diego hits the deck when I say down, but I just looked right past it a kept walking! I went to the car and cried as he licked the tears off my face, but I had learned an important lesson and hopefully won't make that mistake again! Don't stress!

Also, don't be hard on your dog if you screw up. It isn't his fault it is YOURS. I HATE watching juniors! Some of them haven't learned this lesson and even with a score of 95 they will talk about how dumb their dog is or how badly the dog screwed up! I HATE hearing this. My trainer taught me if something goes wrong it is YOUR fault, not the dog!

HAVE FUN and GOOD LUCK!

Jenny 03-02-2013 07:47 PM

It took v longer to get through advanced. Finished his RE in three straight shows. It depends on the dog, day, judge, etc. V to be reminded that he could still behave without the leash. Lol. We will star working towards are RAE soon.


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