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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
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Mr. Business Journal

Good morning everybody !

Well - We all have to start someplace - Mr. Business's Journey started when he was a pup - He took private class's - which he passed - But after joining DT - I started reading about everybody else's Dobermans ! AND there accomplishments !!!!!!!!

It started a fire in me , We have a great Dob and he loves to work - the problem has been me = the time to do it . All that changed a few months ago - with me .

I enrolled Mr. B in a " group " basic Obedience class - two reasons - Mr. B -- needed to be around other dogs - and I wanted to restart at ground level - then go forward .

Last week - I was a failure as a trainer - I was behind him - I think some of the best lessons learned - are the ones we learn about our self's = to be a better trainer . I made a comment to my self to GET in the game !

As I said -- This was a " Group " class = many distractions ! The training area is on the small side - This is good - bad type of deal - to me . I like the idea of getting along in a close area - but needs more room to work - you know what I mean ?

Well last night was test night ! I will admit - I was nervous all day yesterday - lol To show case our training - in front of the other 6 dogs and there trainers + this was the first for both of us . Mr. Business was -- well - he just didn't act right yesterday - he was nervous - My wife even made a comment on him - Was he feeding off my nervousness ? I think he was - We got to the class - we were the first ones there - so had the whole place to ourselves - So ran him threw some quick things - like lose lead - sit stay - everything - but he was - don't how to say it here - he just didn't act like he do's when we do this = nervous acting .

Time has come to start the test ! We were # 2 to go threw the cones on lose lead - We started out and then the main trainer said loudly - DON'T pull on his lead ! I turned and held up my left hand - and said I don't even have a hand on his lead - I don't think she could see that - she then grinned and nodded her head - He did great on this .

We got threw all the other testing good - then the big one ! A 2 minute sit - stay - with distractions ! I will tell you - 2 minutes can seem like 2 hours - lol We were first up ! That was a mistake ! I should have passed on that and waited till number 2 or 3 - Here's the reason - It was the other dogs !

I said we will do the sit - The trainer then did all kinds of things to " Distract " Mr. B and get him to get up out of his stay - I knew we were getting very close on time - Then as she walked down to us one last time - with a baby carriage - with little baby dolls crying in it - 2 of the other dogs bolted to it - the other dogs just tripped up Mr. Business - with 5 seconds to go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was SO Pizzed at the other dogs and there trainers - lol - We get two chances at this this part - So I got my act together in a mili second : ) - petted Mr. B and told him he was a good dog - adjusted his collar and said OK boy - lets do this with a pat on the side - then we reset - - The trainer - to me - upped it up some on the distractions - I knew he was finally in to his game now and was not worried at all - HE passed !!!!!!!!!!! Told him good boy and many pats and rubs and had him all jacked up - He knew he had done good ! Then the trainer asked --- Who wants to follow that act ? As in - he really did a sit stay for almost 4 minutes !

Thinking back - that is what the class was about " Group " training as to when the other dogs bolted = great training for Mr. B and me !!!!!!!!!!!!

I personally think that group obedience is very tuff to do - We had done every kind of Distraction training - BUT - none with other dogs around - well we did with Mr.B Sister - But he knows her !!! Important lesson learned ! My bad !!!!

I'm am So proud of him ! And love him so much - I did not want to fail him = my training : ))

Got home and showed my wife Mr. B's Certificate - She gave him some pats and good boy stuff - then she looked at me and asked - SO what's next for you two ?? Good question ! I don't know right now - whether to now go to a advanced obedience class - and which kind - Go right into nose work ? I really love that idea - as you all now - the sky's the limit - many , many things to do - lol - Right know - I'm leaning to more obedience - maybe good citizens ? Maybe to a advanced obedience - competitive - maybe . Here's my reason - We will never forget Cindy's last words to us before we pulled out of Louisville to head Home -- She said -- You make him mind !!!!!!!!!! lol

Well - As I said - It's a start - Can't wait to see where this journey takes us - And thanks to all our DT family here for advice !

Mr. Business & Ken

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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 08:49 AM
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What a great story and congrats to you and Mr. Business!! I vote for advance obedience.....take him to the next level as that will make him even stronger for your future classes.
What a great dobe' Dad !!!!!
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 09:37 AM
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Great Mr. Business & Team Dad story......thanks for sharing.
- the projected human nerves, is so real
- identifying this is critical, so one can remember the true goal / canine improvement & Fun together
- once this is grasped / your ready to go onto more advanced learning & achievements

It happened to me in 1978, with our first girl Tanya.
- first time Dobe owner and wife & I loved her so much / while we knew, their was lots to learn
- Beau signed up for three 9 week group courses / by a phenomenal lady trainer-handler
- OB on-leash & confirmation, followed by off-leash OB
- we took it serious / because I was scared by a K9 trained male doberman once, and wanted to do things right
- tested after 18 weeks, we edged out the GSD for the class win
- our 1 hours per day training, had paid off...so I thought

Fast forward, a few months later / signed up for a real OB judging.
- I too got their early
- I too practiced so seriously, but in the hot sun
- after 15 minutes, Tanya just sat down and said "screw you dad", with those big black eyes"
- wife said, "your making her nervous"...dad was counting the ribbons, before the event even started
- mom was right / so we waited for the event to start and our # to be called

When it was our turn, Tanya was acing every on-leash instruction to a "T".
- half way through the event, Beau was asked to remove the leash...which I did
- she was in a sit/stay (and looking around) & dad shouted "COME"
- Tanya headed towards her proud Dad and after 10 feet she veered 90 degrees, to the right
- and proceeds to find mom in the crowd & save her (LOL)...the sincere laughter was so real & humbling

I needed that, a few months later entered another competition / this time mom hid herself.
- Tanya stayed in the ring & we had an excellent score
- dad had learned, to trust his dog, fairness and learn to read her emotions / it wasn't all about B67

KEN - IMPO take the Advanced OB next.
- personally your learning will greatly expand, and its the foundation to everything
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------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 10:27 AM
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Cool--congratulations to both you and Mister B.

Do both--take an advanced Obedience course--think about doing either trial Obedience or Rally--or take a Rally course; most places that do group Obedience training will also offer courses in Rally and in early Rally you can ease into Obedience since there aren't group exercises. And look into a nosework class--this is fun stuff for dogs--doing what they want to do anyway--sniff.

But keep doing it--it'll keep Mr B up on dealing politely with other dogs--reminders are always good.

Again--congratulations to both of you. And yes, your emotions run right down the leash to your dog--if you are nervous you are going to see your dog pick up on that.
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 11:27 AM
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Do ALL the things!

I'd take the advanced obedience class. Then, go for his CGC. If time is a concern, then try the FDSA Intro to Nosework class (new session starts April 1st), so that you can fit training around your schedule.
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 11:54 AM
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Wow Ken, I am so impressed with your get up and go. You don't just talk about it, you do it!
Congratulations. They really do feel your nervousness, right through that lead.
Now I'm really excited about what else you two might do.
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 12:00 PM
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Beaumont, enjoyed your story, too. I think most can relate to our dog putting us through a humbling experience when out in the ring in front of everyone.
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everybody for your replies -- And the much needed advice to the path of our journey , yet to come .

6-7 - Great story and your work with Tanya ! Thanks for sharing

Diane , and Bug - Thanks ! I agree with the Advanced obedience and rally .

Rosemary - Thank you for your advice - You do such great work in training - Thanks again

Cressrb - Thank you very much - You can't get nothing in life sitting your -- rear end - Must come from my farm raising - OR Dads boot in my rear from younger days

I have learned so much from these classes - It has to deal more with me than Mr. B - My nerves - Have to get that under control - which I can do - I think . In the above post of mine - When Mr. B broke his sit stay - I don't know why - I felt more at ease - And I think he also felt at ease - Oh the reset - I knew he was like he should be - as I to was at ease , we were both on the same page - From then on - it was great , Big lesson learned for me .

The one thing from now on is we will have to travel to Beech Grove IN - Southeast side of Indy to pursue the other classes - About a 45 minute drive + we have planting season coming on . I plan to use the rest of the day to explore the class options at Pawsitive Partners and see what we can work in .

Anybody that runs out of stuff to do - you can check out there web-site and see if any thing pop's out to yeah .

Thanks

Mr. B & Ken
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 12:27 PM
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I was thinking Rally, Adv. Obedience, Nosework......the sky's the limit.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 03:04 PM
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KEN - once you learned the source of the nerves (aka U), pretty easy to fix...wives are so smart !!
- dogs think in the moment, so train in the moment / don't day dream on the future outcome

As soon as I saw the error of my ways / I completely changed.
- next girl was Amy (year 2000) and I puppy trained her off-leash / she was a quick learner
- years later, I joined DT and heard many real trainers, doing Rally and advanced stuff
- so the Forum helped me realize, it would be a shame / to not OB title, a good dog

Entered Amy in a big show, on long weekend / we needed 3 passes with +80%, in all sections.
- we hadn't practiced formally much, in last 5 years / so practiced on our dead end street, for a week
- I paid for 4 entries & practiced on the Friday night there
- one advanced Rally gal asked if she could pretend judge, my girl...absolutely
- she finally came to the word STAND, and Beau drew a blank
- I went to all the training classes, in 1978 / stand for examination, was not practiced back than
- so together we learned it quick, on the Friday night, fun secession

Round 1 - DQ...a male dobe got the hots for sweet AMY and sniffed her behind.
Round 2 - we passed.
Round 3 - we placed 3rd.
Round 4 - we placed 2nd...so thrilled, we just kept getting better with added confidence

^^ And dear older Amy had graduated with her OB Novice title and we were all very proud of her.
- her ribbons, now rest on her memorial shelf/brick wall (at end of hall) / what we did together, still brings a smile
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------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks 6-7 !

So , this afternoon - I have spent time on Pawsitive Partner's web-site , Now I am more confused , lol

I checked out there Obedience classes - They have beginner novice - then the next class up is there novice class - there are some things in the beginner class we did train on , like sit for examine , and a few others . But then again , I think we could start out with the novice class

Then I checked out the Rally Obedience class . WOW - I like that class , Now I see why Rosemary recommended it .

SO my friends - Mr. B and I are going to lean on you - Thoughts , Ideas ?? Do we need to start all over at this new place ? Or just head into Rally ? I don't want to do something I have no idea as to what I'm doing to start off with .

Remember - I'm just a ole farm boy , just getting our feet wet , so to speak

Would it help if I posted up there web-site to give you all a good idea as to what I'm looking at ?

Thanks

Mr. B & Ken
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 04:29 PM
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Ken (and Mr. B)

I would just give them a call and see if you can talk to a trainer, and see where they think that the two of you would fit in best.
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 04:37 PM
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You want whatever is largely off-leash...take the challenge.
- much less will be boring...a repeat of basics, not necessary

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 04:52 PM
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If you can do obedience, you can do rally. I think a lot of the rally classes are more about learning the signs than anything. Rally is based on the "doodling" moves intended to teach better heeling and the like for obedience, although some of the new AKC Master level signs are based on freestyle moves.

Is this them? Pawsitive Partners According to the website, you need to either take the Competition Beginner Novice class first or have the trainer's permission to the Competition Novice class. Radar's suggestion of talking to the trainer is a good one. Quite frankly, the BN Sit Stay (PCD as well), while the handler walks around the ring is a darned sight harder than a lot of people think it is.


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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 06:06 PM
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I don't intend to derail the OP, but just a quick question while on this subject.
We had been working on Duggans CD before the surgery and now they say never a collar.
We plan on switching to Rally, but I cannot find where they have to have a collar, or can we
use a halter to train and compete? Anyone know? I bought the AKC rules book on obedience/rally,
I looked on AKC site for answers, I called the front desk at AKC. No one knows. They were going to find
the answer and call me back. So wanted to get Duggans ROM title and the CD/or Rally is all we have left
to get for him. Thanks anyone.

"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh
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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 06:34 PM
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AKC requires a collar, with a leash that can detach from the collar.

From the Rally Regulations dated 11-1-17
Chapter 2 Section 15. Collars.
All dogs in the rally ring must wear a properly
fitted collar approved by the judge. No special training collars, such as
electronic collars or prong collars will be permitted. Nothing may be
hanging from the dog’s collar.

ASCA and UKC also require a collar. WCRL, C-WAGS, and CRO all allow harnesses, though.


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Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-NST OD-WD2
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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 07:18 PM
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maybe that 'approved by judge' would give some leeway?

I hate to give this up going forward with his ROM. I mean for the health of the dog it is not
that important at all, but just hoping I could find something that would work.

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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 07:18 PM
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Thanks 6-7 !

So , this afternoon - I have spent time on Pawsitive Partner's web-site , Now I am more confused , lol

I checked out there Obedience classes - They have beginner novice - then the next class up is there novice class - there are some things in the beginner class we did train on , like sit for examine , and a few others . But then again , I think we could start out with the novice class

Then I checked out the Rally Obedience class . WOW - I like that class , Now I see why Rosemary recommended it .

SO my friends - Mr. B and I are going to lean on you - Thoughts , Ideas ?? Do we need to start all over at this new place ? Or just head into Rally ? I don't want to do something I have no idea as to what I'm doing to start off with .

Remember - I'm just a ole farm boy , just getting our feet wet , so to speak

Would it help if I posted up there web-site to give you all a good idea as to what I'm looking at ?

Thanks

Mr. B & Ken
Hi Kenny,

You've already figured out one of the most important things that you get from a class--the trainer trains YOU! And if you have got the bug (well not that bug but the urge to try some ring stuff with your boy who likes to work) it sounds to me like Pawsative Partners has their classes set for maximum help for ring competition and boy does that help with cold feet when doing this for the first time.

I'd take the beginner novice class next if I was doing this--I would not, at this point get into anything that is primarily off leash--that is a big jump and beginner novice is a first step titling class for AKC Obedience. Rosemary mentions that some of the BN exercises are tougher than they might appear--all my dogs had CD's (which is the next title up the line in AKC Obedience) when BN was made a title class but AKC always allows a period of time when dogs with more advanced degrees can go back and earn those preliminary titles--I think I took three of my guys through and was amazed not so much by how many first timers dogs failed stuff in BN but how many of the dogs who had advanced degrees failed things in BN--one of the exercises that was often failed was the Sit Stay that Rosemary talks about.

Then I'd probably take a beginning Rally course--mostly because many of the Rally exercises will improve your dogs performance for more advanced Obedience classes.

And I'd try to work a nose works class in because so many dogs just really like it.

Don't think of the beginner Novice class as just a replay of the class you and Mr. B just took but as more training with another trainer because they all have great tips at every level.

Farm boy! Yeah, right--pick the hayseeds out of your hair Ken--think of it as a way to make you a better partner to Mr. B--the more confident you are the more confidence he'll be.
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 07:32 PM
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Just curious....they require a collar. But does your leash have to be attached to it?

I would think a vet's note about not using a collar would help.
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 07:43 PM
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maybe that 'approved by judge' would give some leeway?

I hate to give this up going forward with his ROM. I mean for the health of the dog it is not
that important at all, but just hoping I could find something that would work.
Hi Cressrb,

The "approved by judge" doesn't give any leeway as far as it being a collar goes--it's because there are some different ways of fastening a collar that are allowed and some things that aren't allowed I've been told. Buckles and snap clips are allowed but there are some clasps (breakaways) that aren't.

But don't stop now--a CD might be easier than the two Rally classes (you need an RA so you also have to get an RN before the RA). But I know dogs (a Doberman in particular who ran headlong into a sliding glass door at full speed and really did a lot of damage to his neck. He had just finished his championship and had passed the WAE and was in the process of being trained for a CD (Rally wasn't an AKC title class at that time)--his owner spent most of a year training him on a harness but when she showed him in Novice Obedience she showed him on a flat buckle collar--his training was good enough that he didn't lag and he didn't forge so the fact that it was a collar was a non-issue and in fact with all his points from Novice he managed to get into DPCA Top Twenty Obedience that year. He couldn't go any farther because he was also restricted from jumping. That's another consideration--is he allowed to jump--because if he's not RA has at least one required jump exercise and another one sometimes found exercise in RA. CD has no jumping.

I know of other dogs and other breeds who have had problems and because of them couldn't wear a collar--but if there is no pressure on the collar it's not going to do any damage--and no one cares how the training was done--I know one long time Dobe owner who routinely trains with no collar at all when training anything--if you can do that sticking a collar on to go in the ring with a leash snapped on to it shouldn't keep your boy from getting a CD.
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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 07:47 PM
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Just curious....they require a collar. But does your leash have to be attached to it?

I would think a vet's note about not using a collar would help.
Dogs have to be leashed except when inside the ring or training ring, and must enter and leave the ring on a leash. While they have to wear a collar with a detachable leash inside he ring, there is nothing that I know of that says they can't be in a harness outside the ring.


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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 07:54 PM
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Just curious....they require a collar. But does your leash have to be attached to it?

I would think a vet's note about not using a collar would help.
Yes, if the Obedience class is the CD--there are exercises on leash (and the leash must be attached, but removable--to the approved collar.

Off leash classes (Heel Off Leash for instance) the leash is removed and the collar stays on the dog.

Vet's excuses don't work on requirements for AKC classes. (Nor for ASCA classes and as I recall CKC--Canadian Kennel Club--has virtually the same regulations.
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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 07:58 PM
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Dogs have to be leashed except when inside the ring or training ring, and must enter and leave the ring on a leash. While they have to wear a collar with a detachable leash inside he ring, there is nothing that I know of that says they can't be in a harness outside the ring.
They can be brought to the ring on a harness--but the harness must be removed and a collar with detachable leash put on the dog before it enters the ring and it must be wearing it leaving the ring.
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2018, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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Good , Good Morning everybody ! Boy - What a wealth of information we have on this site ! Thanks everybody for your input !

After reading your thoughts - I think at this time - I will contact Pawsitive Partners and see when the next BN will start - as I seen it's a 8 week course and see how that works out with Planting season coming up - I want to make sure I have the necessary time to be able to insure a successful out come

I like the off lead work idea - But , Knowing my little buddy like I do - I think he really needs a solid foundation in Obedience first - My reasoning is that I have personally know several of the Shelby County Deputies that are our K-9 units - They are also drug trained to boot - When the handler calls - the Dog obeys - That came from there Obedience training - to me . With this kind of training I feel that it would make Nose Work easier for both of us - when were both on the same page .

A Qoute from Bug : Ken--think of it as a way to make you a better partner to Mr. B--the more confident you are the more confidence he'll be.

You are a 100% right ! When your out of your element , To me , it works on you , a little = the unknown . I feel now that with one under our belt + added training - we will be in our zone of comfort No Nerves !

Sorry here - If I seem to be jumping around = hard to follow - But one thing I learned in lose lead was I was holding the lead to tight - Not giving him enough freedom on the lead - I relaxed the pressure , We then became one , He was feeling the pressure , I think and then was wondering what he was missing with the added pressure on the lead . Just that one little adjustment made a world of difference .

OK - One last question , for now anyway , But what is the meaning for CD -- RA and RN , lol

Thanks again

...Ken
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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-10-2018, 11:20 AM
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OK - One last question , for now anyway , But what is the meaning for CD -- RA and RN , lol

Thanks again

...Ken
They are AKC titles.

CD= Companion Dog
BN= Beginner Novice
RN= Rally Novice

This link will tell you what all he AKC titles mean Titles and Abbreviations - American Kennel Club

And AKC is just he beginning of a long list of competition opportunities.
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