What's the difference in Schutzhund - Page 2 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 08:40 AM
Alpha
 
Dobs4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,246
Location: Missouri
Dogs Name: Gunner, Eika, Ayla, Shrock...
Titles: Intl CH, BH, CD, T1, OB3, WAC, ATT, ATTS,
Dogs Age: 5,4, 3, 15 mos
Gallery Pics: 5
Visit Dobs4ever's Gallery
Thanks: 1,491
Thanked 5,067 Times in 2,303 Posts
Images: 5
                     
Good Schutzhund vs Great Schutzhund

A great handler and a great trainier!!! Ha - it does help to have a very high drive dog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimtc View Post
What is the difference between a "good" Sch III dog and a "great" Sch III dog?

What do GSD's and Mali's have that Dobes don't "typically" have.

Dobs4ever -
J Bar S Dobermans - Where Dobermans RULE!!!
Dobs4ever is offline  
Advertisement
 
post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 10:35 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 999
Location: Gone to the Dobermann kingdom!

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Dobermasha's Gallery
Thanks: 836
Thanked 1,141 Times in 500 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by K9Jarko View Post
I personally think it is humane to train/proof (not to be confused with the learning/teaching phase) utilizing what methods works best for each individual dog...rather then nag with corrections on daily/weekly basis using a tool that obviously has little to no effect for that particular dog.
I wonder how far one will go (still talking train/proof phase) to correct the dog? What is a humane level of correction? What you would not do to make the dog to work correctly? Will the e-collar be the highest level of the corrective tool you will be willing to go to "break" the dog?
(in general I am asking all the working people, not specifically K9Jarko )

Quote:
I over-heard a remark by a helper/decoy specifically concerning his mindset while working Dobermans....that left me thinking. He stated that Dobermans are pretty smart dogs (no surprise to any one on this forum I'm sure)...that if a helper permits a Dobe to get away even once with a fly-by without consequences (not necessarily talking physical correction) and even worse is permitted an "easy bite" after a fly-by....it'll take awhile to extinguish this - if ever, consistently . Dobes are thinkers.....his opinion was that they figure why expel so much energy and slam into a sleeve at high speed when they can pass the first bite up and receive an easier second try. Makes sense...especially when I've witnessed, more then a few times on various training fields....dog flies past the initial long bite and a helper will stand still without any pressure to the dog what so ever or worse he gives a prey (helper moves away/backwards from the dog) bite . At trials, even though the helper is required to drive/attack towards a dog that fails to engage/stick on the long bite....it's still an "easier" bite if for no other reason then distance/impact.
It sounds to me rather a huge disadvantage for the Dobies in sport. If I understood you correctly, despite of the fact that we all love our Dobes for how intellegent they are, apparently it works against them on the field and against the novice handler that may be easily oversmarted by such an intellegent animal. Another thing is the "stuborness" to work because the dog "thinks" too much? I believe that this is where GSDs and Mali's are different than Dobes. Especially Mali's. As I mentioned before, I observed a couple of them in training for about half a year. Those dogs are just never switched off. Go go go. High drive high willingness to work. But at the same time almost robotic obeying to commands. Also, the time to react to the given command seemed much shorter than GSDs. The most amazing sight I loved to see is "aus on the fly" when Mali is send for a long bite. It is amazing to see how dogs are literally drop to the ground in a bit on command from running at full speed to the helper. But I do not know if you call it nervesness but after they are given "aus" and drop, they will whine and do those body movements on the spot (not breaking their position tho) like asking to let them go! (again, I am speaking only about training sessions I was attending - my experience only)
Dobermasha is offline  
post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 12:01 PM
Alpha
 
Rosamburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,069
Location: WA State
Dogs Name: Cairo vom Shattenfell IPO3 (X5), S'lichobor Gvadalahara Sch3 X6 (RIP Hara),
Titles: IPO3, ZTP SG1A,
Dogs Age: 10.5
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit Rosamburg's Gallery
Thanks: 776
Thanked 5,808 Times in 1,643 Posts
Images: 3
                     
[QUOTE=Dobermasha;459664]I wonder how far one will go (still talking train/proof phase) to correct the dog? What is a humane level of correction? What you would not do to make the dog to work correctly? Will the e-collar be the highest level of the corrective tool you will be willing to go to "break" the dog?
(in general I am asking all the working people, not specifically K9Jarko )

IMO, First and foremost the dog has to KNOW the exercise. In my mind giving any correction in the teaching phase (before they KNOW the exercise but are still learning it) is unfair and inhumane. Second criteria is if the dog KNOWS the exercise and are incorrect, they need to know how to work through the corrections that are being applied and to be able to turn it off so to speak. This pre-supposes that the correction is not a form of compulsion which we define as correcting the dog INTO the correct position.

The reality is every dog has a different threshold for the proper level of correction. You have to know that level and go just beyond it. Anything less creates more of a problem and I think should be considered more inhumane to the dog because it increases the tolerance for the correction at the same time re-enforcing the negative activity.
Rosamburg is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Rosamburg For This Useful Post:
Incredibledobe (07-14-2009)
Advertisement
 
post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 12:56 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 999
Location: Gone to the Dobermann kingdom!

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Dobermasha's Gallery
Thanks: 836
Thanked 1,141 Times in 500 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosamburg View Post
Second criteria is if the dog KNOWS the exercise and are incorrect, they need to know how to work through the corrections that are being applied and to be able to turn it off so to speak. This pre-supposes that the correction is not a form of compulsion which we define as correcting the dog INTO the correct position.
I do not understand what you mean (the bold text), Could you please give an example of the exercise, mistake made by the dog and the correction given?


Quote:
The reality is every dog has a different threshold for the proper level of correction. You have to know that level and go just beyond it. Anything less creates more of a problem and I think should be considered more inhumane to the dog because it increases the tolerance for the correction at the same time re-enforcing the negative activity.
Agree. How about "overcorrecting" the dog? Some dogs will refuse to work if overcorrected. Would you step back and start over or will make the dog to obey, to break the "stuborness"? (Granted that the dog knows the routine).
(I am way off top. Probably it is a good idea to open another thread )

Last edited by Dobermasha; 07-07-2009 at 01:04 PM.
Dobermasha is offline  
post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 05:34 PM
Alpha
 
Rosamburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,069
Location: WA State
Dogs Name: Cairo vom Shattenfell IPO3 (X5), S'lichobor Gvadalahara Sch3 X6 (RIP Hara),
Titles: IPO3, ZTP SG1A,
Dogs Age: 10.5
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit Rosamburg's Gallery
Thanks: 776
Thanked 5,808 Times in 1,643 Posts
Images: 3
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobermasha View Post
I do not understand what you mean (the bold text), Could you please give an example of the exercise, mistake made by the dog and the correction given?




Agree. How about "overcorrecting" the dog? Some dogs will refuse to work if overcorrected. Would you step back and start over or will make the dog to obey, to break the "stuborness"? (Granted that the dog knows the routine).
(I am way off top. Probably it is a good idea to open another thread )
In terms of the first queston, say the dog knows he supposed to return to you after a blind search (as opposed to running a slalom course) when you call HERE. He runs by you even though you called his name and a here, so you begin to start nicking him with the collar. He then goes, oops I better do what I am supposed to do and turns back and heads for you. That would be one example, though there are ton of other places where it could be applied.

On the second question, that is part of knowing your dog and what it's threshold is. Our club members have the luxury of a TD who will yell at us to take it easy if it is not enough, or for that matter yell at us if it is too much of a correction. But it still comes down to knowing your dog. I have to get on Hara pretty good, sometimes, because of that stubborn streak and hardness. I don't have experience with a more sensitive dog. This is related to the original post. A good dog will take the correction and work through it, a not so good dog is more likely to shut down. The same is true when being put under pressure. A good dog will bite harder on the sleeve while getting a stick hit, the lesser dog will run.
Rosamburg is offline  
post #31 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 05:40 PM
Alpha
 
Rosamburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,069
Location: WA State
Dogs Name: Cairo vom Shattenfell IPO3 (X5), S'lichobor Gvadalahara Sch3 X6 (RIP Hara),
Titles: IPO3, ZTP SG1A,
Dogs Age: 10.5
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit Rosamburg's Gallery
Thanks: 776
Thanked 5,808 Times in 1,643 Posts
Images: 3
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobermasha View Post
I do not understand what you mean (the bold text), Could you please give an example of the exercise, mistake made by the dog and the correction given?




Agree. How about "overcorrecting" the dog? Some dogs will refuse to work if overcorrected. Would you step back and start over or will make the dog to obey, to break the "stuborness"? (Granted that the dog knows the routine).
(I am way off top. Probably it is a good idea to open another thread )
In terms of the first queston, say the dog knows he supposed to return to you after a blind search (as opposed to running a slalom course) when you call HERE. He runs by you even though you called his name and a here, so you begin to start nicking him with the collar. He then goes, oops I better do what I am supposed to do and turns back and heads for you. That would be one example, though there are ton of other places where it could be applied.

On the second question, that is part of knowing your dog and what it's threshold is. Our club members have the luxury of a TD who will yell at us to take it easy if it is not enough, or for that matter yell at us if it is too much of a correction. But it still comes down to knowing your dog. I have to get on Hara pretty good, sometimes, because of that stubborn streak and hardness. I don't have experience with a more sensitive dog. This is related to the original post. A good dog will take the correction and work through it, a not so good dog is more likely to shut down. The same is true when being put under pressure. A good dog will bite harder on the sleeve while getting a stick hit, the lesser dog will run.

If it is shutting down completely, I think it depends on the dog, so you need to know the dog. Some dogs will need you to back off a bit and encourage them. Some like Hara need not to be rescued (which is very difficult to go through sometimes for me as a handler) and be made to work through it. I just went through this last week with retrieving, so it is fresh in my mind.
Rosamburg is offline  
post #32 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 06:47 PM
Alpha
 
Okie-dobie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,069
Location: Delta, British Columbia
Dogs Name: Jasmine, Cash,
Titles: Cash-IPO1,BH,TT,CGN, Jasmine-BH
Dogs Age: DOB: 07/06/06-04/29/09 RIP
Gallery Pics: 10
Visit Okie-dobie's Gallery
Thanks: 13,188
Thanked 12,008 Times in 3,772 Posts
Images: 10
                     
My trainer at our club does not allow e-collars.

Can someone explain the "fly by" are you saying that the dog actually runs by the helper? Then what does the dog do, try and turn back for the bite?

Dobereich's Valley of Jasmine - BH
Ante Up the Cash de Tejas - IPO 1, BH, CGN, TT
Chalmar's Cobra Strike - Puppy in training

Okie-dobie is offline  
post #33 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 12:11 AM
Alpha
 
Rosamburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,069
Location: WA State
Dogs Name: Cairo vom Shattenfell IPO3 (X5), S'lichobor Gvadalahara Sch3 X6 (RIP Hara),
Titles: IPO3, ZTP SG1A,
Dogs Age: 10.5
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit Rosamburg's Gallery
Thanks: 776
Thanked 5,808 Times in 1,643 Posts
Images: 3
                     
Sometimes that is the case. Usually it means they do not stick the bite on the long pursuit (courage test). Then yes they run back for another bite. This is generally not an issue for Hara, but since it can be a tendency with many Doberman's a little prevention can't hurt.

Doesn't allow e-collars? Nothing like spotting the competition 10-15 points before leaving the gate.
Rosamburg is offline  
post #34 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 06:01 AM
Alpha
 
Okie-dobie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,069
Location: Delta, British Columbia
Dogs Name: Jasmine, Cash,
Titles: Cash-IPO1,BH,TT,CGN, Jasmine-BH
Dogs Age: DOB: 07/06/06-04/29/09 RIP
Gallery Pics: 10
Visit Okie-dobie's Gallery
Thanks: 13,188
Thanked 12,008 Times in 3,772 Posts
Images: 10
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosamburg View Post
Sometimes that is the case. Usually it means they do not stick the bite on the long pursuit (courage test). Then yes they run back for another bite. This is generally not an issue for Hara, but since it can be a tendency with many Doberman's a little prevention can't hurt.

Doesn't allow e-collars? Nothing like spotting the competition 10-15 points before leaving the gate.

What, are you saying that a dog not trained/proofed on an e-collar is going to loose points to the competition just because of that????

Dobereich's Valley of Jasmine - BH
Ante Up the Cash de Tejas - IPO 1, BH, CGN, TT
Chalmar's Cobra Strike - Puppy in training

Okie-dobie is offline  
post #35 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 06:47 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 554
Location: SC
Dogs Name: Lord & Maya

Gallery Pics: 9
Visit Lord's Gallery
Thanks: 92
Thanked 223 Times in 159 Posts
Images: 9
                 
I read what Rosamburg said (especially the first post) and i have to say i agree 1000%.
Lord is offline  
post #36 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 07:10 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,854
Dogs Name: Rah, Berlin and the Cherrybomb
Titles: too many to list!
Dogs Age: 5.5, 3.5, and baby
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit doberkim's Gallery
Thanks: 492
Thanked 12,283 Times in 2,449 Posts
                     
i really have to stress what steve just said - for ANY correction - the key is ensuring that your dog understands the exercise BEFORE they are corrected for it, and they understand HOW THEY CAN TURN THE CORRECTION OFF - be it a collar correction, verbal, electronic collar, you name it. that's fair, that is effective, and it's the only way i want to train.


and yes, i do find the thinking nature of the dobe can be hard. it's the same reason why you cannot drill. other breeds will be happy to do the same thing over and over and over again multiple times every day for years. my dogs are constantly trying to reinvent the wheel - its cute, but its [email protected]#[email protected]#[email protected] annoying sometimes. for me, i still have to train basics sometimes, and retrain them - because without consistent input from me, my dog will decide on his own how to do things. it doesn't matter if he learned it a different way 2years ago. i love it, but i hate it...

this would be a very interesting different thread.

in any sport, the difference between a good dog and a great dog i think is the handler for the most part. good handlers can make so so dogs look amazing, and crappy handlers can hold back any good dog.


Bowie's Here Comes the Boom! UD BN RN TKP WAC CGC
Katwalk Calm Like a Bomb UDX OM1 PCD GN BN TKP CD-C CGC
Bowie's Atomic Bomb NW1 TKI
ARCHX Bowie's Semper Fidelis v DRU, UD ASCA-CDX CDX-H D-CD RE RL1X RL2X RL3 ATT WAC TT CGC VC FFX-OG
Beja's Bombs Away v Bowie, CD ASCA-CD CD-H BN RN NA NAJ RL1 WAC ATT YTT PTT CGC CHIC#71265
Bowie's Modern Love RN CGC
Forever in my heart


more beatings, less love!
doberkim is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to doberkim For This Useful Post:
Incredibledobe (07-14-2009), robinb (07-08-2009)
post #37 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 07:34 AM Thread Starter
Alpha
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 355
Location: New Jersey
Dogs Name: Sammy
Titles: BH
Dogs Age: 2
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit jimtc's Gallery
Thanks: 283
Thanked 204 Times in 124 Posts
               
Quote:
Originally Posted by doberkim View Post
i really have to stress what steve just said - for ANY correction - the key is ensuring that your dog understands the exercise BEFORE they are corrected for it, and they understand HOW THEY CAN TURN THE CORRECTION OFF - be it a collar correction, verbal, electronic collar, you name it. that's fair, that is effective, and it's the only way i want to train.


and yes, i do find the thinking nature of the dobe can be hard. it's the same reason why you cannot drill. other breeds will be happy to do the same thing over and over and over again multiple times every day for years. my dogs are constantly trying to reinvent the wheel - its cute, but its [email protected]#[email protected]#[email protected] annoying sometimes. for me, i still have to train basics sometimes, and retrain them - because without consistent input from me, my dog will decide on his own how to do things. it doesn't matter if he learned it a different way 2years ago. i love it, but i hate it...



this would be a very interesting different thread.

in any sport, the difference between a good dog and a great dog i think is the handler for the most part. good handlers can make so so dogs look amazing, and crappy handlers can hold back any good dog.
Could the opposite be said:? "A great dog will look good with a so so handler, given a good trainer"
jimtc is offline  
post #38 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 11:35 AM
Alpha
 
Rosamburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,069
Location: WA State
Dogs Name: Cairo vom Shattenfell IPO3 (X5), S'lichobor Gvadalahara Sch3 X6 (RIP Hara),
Titles: IPO3, ZTP SG1A,
Dogs Age: 10.5
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit Rosamburg's Gallery
Thanks: 776
Thanked 5,808 Times in 1,643 Posts
Images: 3
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okie-dobie View Post
What, are you saying that a dog not trained/proofed on an e-collar is going to loose points to the competition just because of that????
Under a good judge there are nuances in the performance of an exercise that are going to be picked apart. I would venture to say there are things that you are at an EXTREME disadvantage on in the proofing and securing stage of training if you do not have the option being able to fine tune the exercise by using an e-collar.

This is especially obvious on distance exercises where you have absolutely no way to reach out and touch your dog without an e-collar.
OB phase
1. the send out
2. long down
C-phase
blind searches

In nearly every other exercise there are things you can do with an e-collar that you just cannot fine tune with a prong collar. Though I just kind of threw that figure out there, if you look at it, a point here and a point there through both b and c phases can quickly add up to 10-15 points. Some people even use them in tracking though I never have.

I can certainly understand someone's reluctance to use an e-collar. I refused to use one for a few years and thought they were completely unnecessary and even inhumane. However, my views changed, and now see them as a not only a very viable tool, but one that is impossible to ignore if you are really serious about competition. At our club the e-collar like every other correction applied to a dog, is left up to the handler whether or not it is to be used. Nobody is forced to do something they think is wrong.

Again the e-collar has to be in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing. There is no quicker way to screw up a dog if used incorrectly.

A training partner one time told me about his friend that picked up and re-located to be near a trainer he worshiped. The trainer was not only a known Sch competitor, but made a lot of money doing seminars advocating ONLY positive re-enforcement/cookie training. When the guy walked into the trainers office he had so many e-collars on chargers it made his hair stand on end.

Last edited by Rosamburg; 07-08-2009 at 11:51 AM.
Rosamburg is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Rosamburg For This Useful Post:
Okie-dobie (07-08-2009)
post #39 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 11:52 AM
Alpha
 
Okie-dobie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,069
Location: Delta, British Columbia
Dogs Name: Jasmine, Cash,
Titles: Cash-IPO1,BH,TT,CGN, Jasmine-BH
Dogs Age: DOB: 07/06/06-04/29/09 RIP
Gallery Pics: 10
Visit Okie-dobie's Gallery
Thanks: 13,188
Thanked 12,008 Times in 3,772 Posts
Images: 10
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosamburg View Post
Under a good judge there are nuances in the performance of an exercise that are going to be picked apart. I would venture to say there are things that you are at an EXTREME disadvantage on in the proofing and securing stage of training if you do not have the option being able to fine tune the exercise by using an e-collar.

This is especially obvious on distance exercises where you have absolutely no way to reach out and touch your dog without an e-collar.
OB phase
1. the send out
2. long down
C-phase
blind searches

In nearly every other exercise there are things you can do with an e-collar that you just cannot fine tune with a prong collar. Though I just kind of threw that figure out there, if you look at it, a point here and a point there through both b and c phases can quickly add up to 10-15 points. Some people even use them in tracking though I never have.

I can certainly understand someone's reluctance to use an e-collar. I refused to use one for a few years and thought they were completely unnecessary. However, my views changed, and now see them as a not only a very viable tool, but one that is impossible to ignore if you are really serious about competition.
Again they have to be in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing. There is no quicker way to screw up a dog if used incorrectly.

A training partner one time told me about his friend that picked up and re-located to be near a trainer he worshiped. The trainer was not only a known Sch competitor, but made a lot of money doing seminars advocating ONLY positive re-enforcement/cookie training. When the guy walked into the trainers office he had so many e-collars on chargers it made his hair stand on end.

I will be interested to hear what our trainer has to say. I am not against e-collars, they just are not used at our club. Thanks for the replies.

Dobereich's Valley of Jasmine - BH
Ante Up the Cash de Tejas - IPO 1, BH, CGN, TT
Chalmar's Cobra Strike - Puppy in training

Okie-dobie is offline  
post #40 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 12:21 PM
Alpha
 
Rosamburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,069
Location: WA State
Dogs Name: Cairo vom Shattenfell IPO3 (X5), S'lichobor Gvadalahara Sch3 X6 (RIP Hara),
Titles: IPO3, ZTP SG1A,
Dogs Age: 10.5
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit Rosamburg's Gallery
Thanks: 776
Thanked 5,808 Times in 1,643 Posts
Images: 3
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okie-dobie View Post
I will be interested to hear what our trainer has to say. I am not against e-collars, they just are not used at our club. Thanks for the replies.
What is the focus of the club? Are there any really serious competitors there?
BTW did the dog in the picture clear the creek with his drive?
Rosamburg is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Rosamburg For This Useful Post:
Okie-dobie (07-09-2009)
post #41 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 10:02 PM
Lil Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 64
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Dogs Name: Apasch vom Haus King of Queens
Dogs Age: 4
Gallery Pics: 12
Visit wrussell's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 65 Times in 31 Posts
Images: 12
       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okie-dobie View Post
I will be interested to hear what our trainer has to say. I am not against e-collars, they just are not used at our club. Thanks for the replies.

I have to comment that it suprising that this discussion has remained as respectful of training techniques regardless of individual feelings. When it started i expected it to get extreme.
wrussell is offline  
post #42 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-08-2009, 11:20 PM
Alpha
 
Quita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,022
Location: New Jersey
Dogs Name: Risa (D.O.B. 7/26/07) & Bacci (D.O.B. 8/22/09) & Fiddler R.I.P. (8/9/98-11/5/09)
Titles: Risa CGC
Dogs Age: Risa 2 yrs 5 months, Bacci 4 months
Gallery Pics: 21
Visit Quita's Gallery
Thanks: 1,816
Thanked 2,111 Times in 822 Posts
Images: 21
                     
Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrussell View Post
I have to comment that it suprising that this discussion has remained as respectful of training techniques regardless of individual feelings. When it started i expected it to get extreme.
Yes, a very good discussion! Thanks everybody for all your input! A very interesting and informative discussion...



Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
Quita is offline  
post #43 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 08:55 PM
Alpha
 
Okie-dobie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,069
Location: Delta, British Columbia
Dogs Name: Jasmine, Cash,
Titles: Cash-IPO1,BH,TT,CGN, Jasmine-BH
Dogs Age: DOB: 07/06/06-04/29/09 RIP
Gallery Pics: 10
Visit Okie-dobie's Gallery
Thanks: 13,188
Thanked 12,008 Times in 3,772 Posts
Images: 10
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosamburg View Post
What is the focus of the club? Are there any really serious competitors there?
BTW did the dog in the picture clear the creek with his drive?
Sorry Rosamburg just saw this now. I guess mainly the focus of our club first off is to have FUN with your dog and have your dog enjoy it. Secondly is to compete. Our club is not hardcore, super obsessed with competition, I'm not to sure what you mean by serious competitors. Yes that is one of our goals, but we are in no rush with our dogs. In fact if you are in a hurry to rush your dog through just to compete this is not the club for you.
Ryan our trainer has trained a few for the Canadian team in the past and he is very well respected. I asked him about the e-collars, he said he has used them on a couple of dogs but that's it. I have never seen him use one, nor has anyone else at our club. To be honest any problems I have seen arise he finds a way to correct it so far. I have only been with this club for about 5 months, well regularly for about 3 1/2 months. As I become more experienced in the sport I will probably be able to give you a better explanation. I pick up my puppy tomorrow so this is the beginning of a long journey ahead. I have used an e-collar in the past, and would use one again depending on the circumstances. I am so far very happy with Jasmine's progress, Ryan has done wonders. Time will tell.
Oh, and Jasmine's not a golfer she prefers racket sports, so no she did not clear the creek!

Dobereich's Valley of Jasmine - BH
Ante Up the Cash de Tejas - IPO 1, BH, CGN, TT
Chalmar's Cobra Strike - Puppy in training


Last edited by Okie-dobie; 07-09-2009 at 08:57 PM.
Okie-dobie is offline  
post #44 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-09-2009, 08:59 PM
Alpha
 
Okie-dobie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,069
Location: Delta, British Columbia
Dogs Name: Jasmine, Cash,
Titles: Cash-IPO1,BH,TT,CGN, Jasmine-BH
Dogs Age: DOB: 07/06/06-04/29/09 RIP
Gallery Pics: 10
Visit Okie-dobie's Gallery
Thanks: 13,188
Thanked 12,008 Times in 3,772 Posts
Images: 10
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrussell View Post
I have to comment that it suprising that this discussion has remained as respectful of training techniques regardless of individual feelings. When it started i expected it to get extreme.
Funny but I did not think it was going to get extreme at all.

Dobereich's Valley of Jasmine - BH
Ante Up the Cash de Tejas - IPO 1, BH, CGN, TT
Chalmar's Cobra Strike - Puppy in training

Okie-dobie is offline  
post #45 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 03:03 AM
Alpha
 
Rosamburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,069
Location: WA State
Dogs Name: Cairo vom Shattenfell IPO3 (X5), S'lichobor Gvadalahara Sch3 X6 (RIP Hara),
Titles: IPO3, ZTP SG1A,
Dogs Age: 10.5
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit Rosamburg's Gallery
Thanks: 776
Thanked 5,808 Times in 1,643 Posts
Images: 3
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okie-dobie View Post
Sorry Rosamburg just saw this now. I guess mainly the focus of our club first off is to have FUN with your dog and have your dog enjoy it. Secondly is to compete. Our club is not hardcore, super obsessed with competition, I'm not to sure what you mean by serious competitors. Yes that is one of our goals, but we are in no rush with our dogs. In fact if you are in a hurry to rush your dog through just to compete this is not the club for you.
Ryan our trainer has trained a few for the Canadian team in the past and he is very well respected. I asked him about the e-collars, he said he has used them on a couple of dogs but that's it. I have never seen him use one, nor has anyone else at our club. To be honest any problems I have seen arise he finds a way to correct it so far. I have only been with this club for about 5 months, well regularly for about 3 1/2 months. As I become more experienced in the sport I will probably be able to give you a better explanation. I pick up my puppy tomorrow so this is the beginning of a long journey ahead. I have used an e-collar in the past, and would use one again depending on the circumstances. I am so far very happy with Jasmine's progress, Ryan has done wonders. Time will tell.
Oh, and Jasmine's not a golfer she prefers racket sports, so no she did not clear the creek!
I think that describes the atmosphere at most clubs. It sounds to be more social in nature than competitive. There is nothing wrong with this, and most people would probably find this more enjoyable than a competition oriented club. When I say competitive I am referring to people striving to get on the podium at regional, national and ultimately world level competitions. Our club, for example is very competition oriented. In that kind of environment handlers are constantly looking for ways to get every last point. Today I got to the club at 6:45 PM. Apparently people had started tracking at 11 am even though it is a weekday. They trained until 9:30 pm. Unfortunately I do not have the time to be this dedicated, but try to gain as much experience as I can to make a good showing.
Rosamburg is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Rosamburg For This Useful Post:
Okie-dobie (07-10-2009)
post #46 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-14-2009, 05:31 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 350
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit alys's Gallery
Thanks: 1,711
Thanked 543 Times in 236 Posts
                     
hi all
I am in England and I went to a competition on sunday for all breeds in Schutzhund. There was 1 dobe and 14 GSD and 2 malinois. The dobe was very good and finished near the top(3rd or 4th) just messing up on sendaway cost him top marks in obediance.Tracking he got 71 and was very good in protection(82) The dog is shown internationely as well and a nice dog to live with in the house according to the owner/breeder (Aritaur) It gave me inspiration with my dobe as it can be done. And arent dobes just sooooo much cuter!!!!

Lynn:
alys is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to alys For This Useful Post:
Okie-dobie (07-14-2009)
post #47 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-14-2009, 10:46 AM
Alpha
 
Rosamburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,069
Location: WA State
Dogs Name: Cairo vom Shattenfell IPO3 (X5), S'lichobor Gvadalahara Sch3 X6 (RIP Hara),
Titles: IPO3, ZTP SG1A,
Dogs Age: 10.5
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit Rosamburg's Gallery
Thanks: 776
Thanked 5,808 Times in 1,643 Posts
Images: 3
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by alys View Post
hi all
I am in England and I went to a competition on sunday for all breeds in Schutzhund. There was 1 dobe and 14 GSD and 2 malinois. The dobe was very good and finished near the top(3rd or 4th) just messing up on sendaway cost him top marks in obediance.Tracking he got 71 and was very good in protection(82) The dog is shown internationely as well and a nice dog to live with in the house according to the owner/breeder (Aritaur) It gave me inspiration with my dobe as it can be done. And arent dobes just sooooo much cuter!!!!

Lynn:
I am guessing that you meant the protection LOOKED very good to you. As far as the official grading, a score of 82 would be considered sort of a low good, A score of 90 is required to be considered an SG (Very Good).
Rosamburg is offline  
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome