One thing that annoys me about OB in AKC is that bitches in heat can't show and to get your money back you have to pay a vet $60 (or more) to say your bitch is in heat. So basically they steal your money or you have to try to guess when your bitch will be in heat and not register for shows around then. Meanwhile, the ring next to yours is showing conformation with bitches, not only in heat, but wearing nothing. Just have the bitches show last like they do in other sports or give a bitch a twice a year freebie to get their money back.
I found this article very interesting. Although one thing I ALWAYS tend to notice with positive methods is that it's always the border collie/shepherds/labs and not working breeds. It's hard for me to take this stuff completely serious if they aren't working with breeds that I consider to have strong prey drives and alertness. I often view training puppies like children, some children need a lot more affection and they strive off positive rewards but their are some children that do well under positive but sometimes need a spanking or a punishment. Although I want to do a majority of positive training, I also know that may not be enough. https://pethelpful.com/dogs/A-New-St...Train-Our-Dogs
Oh i agree - personally for me i don't have a problem with intact bitches showing during heat, they can show last for all i care. in UDC i've shown with intact bitches in heat and I volunteered to put my male next to them since the intact males didn't want to (this was rah). true story, berlin was going to be spayed anyway but i spayed her when i did because her heat cycle was due to occur right at the time we were going to compete in a tournament!
in terms of the article, i really think it has less to do with what breed you have, and the individual dog, and again - what you are capable of and so many things. i know how to shape things but for me, shaping a certain ideal behavior (standing without moving feet) can take months and still not be clear but if i just tell my dog no don't move your feet! and they get it, i will choose the second. thats MY choice. some people may choose differently - thats ok. and some people may choose not to train it at all. again ok. i think so much more goes into training than just saying how you train- what frame of mind are you training and reinforcing? how clear are your criteria? some people will break down an exercise and say today we are rewarding just the straight front, and ignore everything else. others are lumpers.
i am very much (perhaps more so than others) into the emotional aspect of what my run looks like - its why seeing how cherry shows and such bothers me so much because i want that snappy toothed bitch who barks back at me when i tell her to do something to make even a SMALL presence in the ring. even though i correct, i am very conscious of what the mindset is, and what did i reward or correct.
Um... anyone who thinks that Border Collies, GSD, and/or Labradors are not "working breeds" has obviously never worked with them.
And the "must offer a refund for bitches that come into season after entries close" is new within the past couple of years. Used to be, they didn't have to offer a refund. Even showing them last in a class, would you like to have your intact (or heck, even neutered) male be more interested in tracking her scent around the ring than heeling in the next class? If bitches in season are allowed to foul the ring with vaginal discharge, you might as well let dogs mark in the ring and people to leave bits of bait all over the place.
training issue. why make intact bitch owners suffer
my dog shouldn't put his head down to sniff PERIOD when he's working - intact bitch, squirrel, pee, you name it. i am very much for BRING ON THE DISTRACTION - for me, the harder the better. i don't want a sterile environment. intact females can show in heat last, can't they?
You can feel however you want about the breeds but the facts are they aren't a working breed and their brains function much differently. Even in doberkims videos you can see a HUGE difference in attention alone from the 2 different breeds she posted. It's just my opinion that some breeds are more respondent to positive training than others. My sheltie never needed a correction ever, her attention was always on me naturally.
A bitch doesn't have to "foul up a ring with vaginal discharge" they do have diapers and underwear for them to wear. Often times, here in CO anyways, we are ring to ring with conformation where bitches aren't wearing panties, so I don't see any difference. the odor's in the air either way. It doesn't seem to affect barn hunt, or Sch., or other sports where a dog has to do a job. It's just my opinion that AKC should either refund your money, or allow them to compete.
yes and no. i HATE using breed as an excuse. i hate excuses period. breed, rescue, age you got the dog, etc. look at the dog in front of you and train that dog. there will be limitations of what your dog has been bred to do for generations, but i have limited my dogs more than any breed or rescue situation has, by expecting that cherry wasn't capable of what chill is. cherry's SINGLE limitation is that physically she can never have the heads up position chill has - but even chill has to work HARD for that. my Facebook friends have seen the videos i have posted of working chills head position and prance for heeling.
yes breeds have differences - but you can overcome those differences. but crappy training (of any type) can take a dog with drive and have them do poorly in the ring, or take a crappy dog and cover it up and build them up. I've seen drive and biddability in dobermans just as much as i have seen some of the least drivey dogs in dobermans - same with BC's. I'm lucky to know chill's entire family and still train and show with most of his litter, and they are all very different.
Yeah, Chill is more attentive. He's got a lot more drive and overall "work ethic" than Cherry does. He's the one who thinks that heeling is a contact sport, involving teeth. Namely, his teeth.
chill's work ethic is what pulls him through - and you're totally right that's where he differs most from cherry who is the laziest being on earth. chill loves any game we do together and literally comes out of the crate ready to go - but i had that with rah too. its not unique to border collies - or even males. its certain dogs (of any breed) will do that, and certain ones will be a constant struggle. literally rah knew a dog show and when i opened up the back of the truck, he jumped out, grabbed his leash, and tugged his way into the building because he built on the energy. i never had to walk the building and let him acclimate - never had to work attention. that dog was ON the minute he arrived. looking back i could have managed him better with what i know now, but his warm ups weren't for attention. most of rah's warm ups were "remember we let go of every object we retrieve when mom says out".
we used to joke rah was 2 border collies and a maleness in one gigantic dobe body! not much about his training was doberman like - and honestly that messed me up for training berlin a LOT, who was his polar opposite.
I have to disagree that it has anything to do with breed. Any breed can be trained using any method, provided the trainer is very skilled. Working breeds can be just as successful using clicker training as other breeds. It's really just a matter of what the trainer wants to use, and how good they are at using that method.
Additionally, I think we all need to remember that our dogs decide what is aversive, not us. For example, Richter finds it quite aversive if we do the same exercise too many times in a row in agility...he's pretty sensitive, and he starts to think that he's wrong, and will begin to shut down. I have to be very careful to be really positive if we're going to be too repetitive with an exercise, because for HIM that is aversive. On the other hand, he doesn't find a prong collar aversive (note, I don't use one on him, though he has had one on at one point - he couldn't have cared less...). Many dogs find head collars quite aversive, even though they are not supposed to be. Each dog is different. For some, a verbal "uh uh" is quite aversive. For others, that's nothing. We can't generalize what's positive or what's aversive...each dog decides.
exactly - and what is aversive can also be affected by drive state, environment, etc. the lack of many dobermans ability to handle repetition drives me crazy, since i know some can - so i decided that cherry would have to work through that - and she does now, and we can do multiple reps of behaviors and she will actually build (at least at home now, which is a start).