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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-14-2008, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Cleats View Post
As I've been chatting about this I've heard concerns voiced over too-late announcements of judges and helpers. Schedules get planned around, among other things, who's judging and catching and certainly still being in TBD mode a month before the event will mitigate entries. My constructive suggestion is to find the best judge and helper(s) you can and get it announced before the new year. I know for a fact that some possible handlers will make their decisions to go or not go based solely on that.
Thank you. We will have it announced well before the new year. We will need to select our judges before we can get approval for holding the trial. You cannot submit an application to hold a trial without having the judge confirmed, so I can't imagine how any club would even be able to hold off that announcement until a month before trial and can see why people would not like that. I also have a few helpers in mind, and know at least one of them will come. If the club can afford it, we will go with a foreign judge. I know a few who would love to come over, we just need to be able to pay for that.


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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-14-2008, 08:06 PM
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Yes, you are correct about the judge(s). I was speaking more to the trial helper situation. Some are more fastidious about the safety of their dogs than others and the handlers I mentioned above select trials based on who's catching even more than who is judging. We all know that some helpers are more fluid and safe than others and reputations being what they are...
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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-14-2008, 08:41 PM
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That are great news, Lorna!!!!

Let me know, how I can help!

Take care Andrea and Dobermans


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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-14-2008, 08:45 PM
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Great news Lorna, depending on if I can get away (I have horses too) I'd love to come.

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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-14-2008, 08:52 PM
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Cool trial helpers and dog safety

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Originally Posted by White Cleats View Post
Yes, you are correct about the judge(s). I was speaking more to the trial helper situation. Some are more fastidious about the safety of their dogs than others and the handlers I mentioned above select trials based on who's catching even more than who is judging. We all know that some helpers are more fluid and safe than others and reputations being what they are...
Well said and exactly what I was thinking when I mentioned that the helpers would have a lot to do with the decision even if the dogs were ready. No one wants to see their dog hurt or their training set back...

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post #31 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-14-2008, 09:04 PM
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No, they don't. And what's more, if there's a trial within the same geographic effort level with better judges and helpers, UDC or no, the Dobe people I know will head for that one.
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post #32 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-14-2008, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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Obviously everyone wants safe helpers. I don't think a helper who is known to be unsafe is going to be doing much trialing or training for anyone. At least not for long. I know I would not have a helper at our club that I didn't think was safe. Helpers have to pass certifications to be able to work a trial too, so most of them are going to be safe. And no, before you all jump on me, I'm not saying that MAKES them safe, I'm saying they had to of demonstrated safe work to get their certification.
In my experience, the consideration of the helper comes into play more with training than trialing, if a helper is selected for a trial, it's usually because the club that selected him feels confident in his abilities. People that feel otherwise just don't work under that helper.
Some of it depends on the event too. Not everyone is always happy with the helpers selected for a regional or national, but I haven't seen too many people pull because of it if they needed that event to qualify for something else or if they really wanted to compete at that trial.
Not everyone knows every helpers ability either, so it's up to them to make the judgement as to whether or not they trust that club in their selection of a the helper. There are a few that are well known and a few that are not so well known. Even the well known ones have people who haven't worked under them before.
The other side of it is that if you always have to pick trials based on who the helper is, maybe you should be looking at your dog. When I enter a trial, I certainly look at who the helper is, but I don't base my decision to trial based on that alone. I think everyone asks, "who's the helper?" - but I don't think most people base thier entry on that. Probably more so with a local club trial where people don't know the helper. I usually feel pretty good about trusting the club that selected him in their decision.
I woud not base my decision on a helper around whether or not people would enter, I would base it on the helper's work.


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post #33 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-14-2008, 10:10 PM
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Cool safety vs aide

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Originally Posted by Incredibledobe View Post
Obviously everyone wants safe helpers....
Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Incredibledobe View Post
Not everyone is always happy with the helpers selected for a regional or national, but I haven't seen too many people pull because of it....
Agreed again, though I think this is because helpers chosen for trials of this level have usually been around and are well-known enough for being good trial helpers.

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Originally Posted by Incredibledobe View Post
The other side of it is that if you always have to pick trials based on who the helper is, maybe you should be looking at your dog.
Well I know for a fact people will choose where they train based on the type of dog they have and what the helper is like. For instance, if you know a certain helper just doesn't drive your dog enough to get the best out of him, why train there? Or if the helper doesn't listen to you, and treats every dog the same, whats the point? Or if the helper works every dog in defense, again, how long will that last? But I don't think, at least I would hope, that folks wouldn't pick their trials based on how well their dog might do with that particular helper. The only consideration I would have, would be safety...

Though I do see what White Cleats is saying about if there were two trials on the same day, and you know that one particular helper is better than another than you might go that route. But I wouldn't say thats anything like following a particular helper around, not in the sense that it helps your dog do better, the way some conformation folks might follow a judge they know that likes their dogs...

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Originally Posted by Incredibledobe View Post
I woud not base my decision on a helper around whether or not people would enter, I would base it on the helper's work.
As it should be.

As an aside, I would be interested in hearing who these "other dobe" folks are in the Bay area that are trialing dobes...

"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
but performance indicates what the animal actually is."
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post #34 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Well I know for a fact people will choose where they train based on the type of dog they have and what the helper is like. For instance, if you know a certain helper just doesn't drive your dog enough to get the best out of him, why train there? Or if the helper doesn't listen to you, and treats every dog the same, whats the point? Or if the helper works every dog in defense, again, how long will that last? But I don't think, at least I would hope, that folks wouldn't pick their trials based on how well their dog might do with that particular helper. The only consideration I would have, would be safety...

Very well said, I wish I could write as well as you! , that's what I meant when I wrote....

Quote:
In my experience, the consideration of the helper comes into play more with training than trialing,

Quote:
As an aside, I would be interested in hearing who these "other dobe" folks are in the Bay area that are trialing dobes...
[/QUOTE]

I don't know who WC is talking about. The ones I know of are...

Patrick & Jett
Me & Hoss (and training with Diva too)
Marie & Basia
Danielle with Phoenix & Viggo
Chuck & Cowboy
Leif & Ruby
Margaret & Diesel

Most of these folks are working towards their ScH I's right now and we should see more of them come Spring.

WC - who are the teams you are talking about? Are you trialing? I know you were going to get a puppy at one time, but are you working another dog too?I am curious, what are the names of the Dobes you have titled?


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post #35 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 01:08 AM
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Sorry, and I certainly understand why you're asking, but I don't drop resumes. Mine or anyone else's. Though I do talk about others I do so in generalities so as not to speak out of turn -- at least not without their express permission. You'll never see me drop names on this forum -- not my club, my trainers, my helpers, my breeders nor my closest associates.

However, yes Lorna, you're correct, I am not working a dog right now and am still waiting on a breeding.

Oh, and I wasn't talking about people in the Bay Area -- I know very few handlers with working Dobes in our local area.
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post #36 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 02:36 AM Thread Starter
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But you must have dogs that are trained and trialing right? I refer to this statement...

Quote:
Additionally, for the mental and physical health of my dogs I only trial them so often and though Santa Rosa is a stones throw from me, I feel like it would be a wasted trial -- especially as there is likely to be only like 5 other dogs there.
That would imply you have dogs trialing "so often"- as in plural. I'm just curious as we have been to many, many trials all around CA. & Wa. the last 2 years and I have never met you or seen anyone else with a dobe, other than guys and Wendy. There's a lady at alameda with an Eric James dog - you?


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2007, 2008, 2010 ADA Siegerin
UDC/ADA CH.Tahi Reme Gloria
CGC, STT, ZTP-V1B, SchH 3, IPO 3
2010 ADA SIEGER, Incredible Courage, CGC,STT,
ZTP-V1A, IPO 3, SchH 3
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post #37 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Cleats View Post
Sorry, and I certainly understand why you're asking, but I don't drop resumes. Mine or anyone else's. Though I do talk about others I do so in generalities so as not to speak out of turn -- at least not without their express permission. You'll never see me drop names on this forum -- not my club, my trainers, my helpers, my breeders nor my closest associates.

However, yes Lorna, you're correct, I am not working a dog right now and am still waiting on a breeding.

Oh, and I wasn't talking about people in the Bay Area -- I know very few handlers with working Dobes in our local area.
Lorna asked what dogs you had owned and titled, not for your resume! This is a Doberman forum for Doberman fanciers. Most of us love to talk about our dogs or we wouldn't be here. You are entitled to the cloak and dagger stuff but this isn't exactly the CIA either. I do think your opinions, regarding the UDC and it's relevance to the sport, would carry more weight if you would stand up and be counted. JMHO

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post #38 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Cleats View Post
Sorry, and I certainly understand why you're asking, but I don't drop resumes. Mine or anyone else's. Though I do talk about others I do so in generalities so as not to speak out of turn -- at least not without their express permission. You'll never see me drop names on this forum -- not my club, my trainers, my helpers, my breeders nor my closest associates.

However, yes Lorna, you're correct, I am not working a dog right now and am still waiting on a breeding.

Oh, and I wasn't talking about people in the Bay Area -- I know very few handlers with working Dobes in our local area.
WC, I agree with much of what you say on the forum. But I believe it does add more credibility to what you put out there if people know who you are and what you do and what you have accomplished. I for one have stated numerous times on this forum that I am certainly no expert, just barely above novice handler with my first sport dog (though I have not been w/o a doberman in the past 26 years). What you see is what you get.

In addition I think this notion of "name dropping" is a bit over the top. I think it is helpful to know about the people in the sport as well as different clubs and who people are associated with. It certainly has given me a better picture of what is going on in this country. I also think it is important for me to credit those that have given me so much guidance over the past 5 years. They deserve more credit than me for anything my dog and I have accomplished.

Last edited by Rosamburg; 10-15-2008 at 12:36 PM.
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post #39 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 01:18 PM
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Lorna - late to the thread, but we (Marc and I) would love to come up and help in any way we can - count us in! Sending you a PM.
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post #40 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 06:03 PM
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Cool credibility and dobe teams....

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Originally Posted by Rosamburg View Post
WC, I agree with much of what you say on the forum. But I believe it does add more credibility to what you put out there if people know who you are and what you do and what you have accomplished.
Ditto. I agree. As we all know, different clubs and their helpers have reputations out there for their training techniques and successes. And while one can't always assume that a certain style of training prevails at a certain club, if you've visited that club often enough, you generally have an idea. All this helps to give the outsider a better "global picture" of what goes on where.

At any rate, I have no clue who White Cleats is or why he/she prefers to remain anonymous. It does take away credibility. To the best of my knowledge, and based soley on what I've read here on DT, WC had a "rescue" bitch named Sadie that he trained for a very long time to get a SchH I on her.

And if I remember correctly, you said your club is a DVG club, that there were only three clubs in your Bay area, but this was the only one you would even consider.

I also remember reading that you were getting a puppy back in August... A red male singleton from Weyermuhle/Mooreiche lines? I may be off on that, but as I was expecting our puppies to arrive that month as well, it seems like thats what I remember. Weren't you going to name him Quno?

Anyway, I suppose if someone *really* wanted to know, all they'd have to do is look at past DVG results for clubs in the Bay Area with a Dobe named "Sadie".

To add to Lorna's list of Dobe teams here in NorCal, I know that there is:

Wendy & Covae
Wendy & Eiko
Jennifer & Zeke
Jennifer & Esco
BJ & Nala
Art & Cashus
Art & Dunja
Chris & his Eschenbruch dog

and I know there's more...

Ah well, here's to getting to know everyone... Whether its through DT, the NorCalSchH list, Lorna's UDC events, wherever... You can never have too many friends or too many resources.

"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
but performance indicates what the animal actually is."

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post #41 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-28-2008, 10:56 PM
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sorry posted in the wrong thread


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post #42 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-01-2009, 06:34 AM
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UDC events

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Originally Posted by Incredibledobe View Post
I am asking for everyone's input. Our club would really like to hold a regional UDC event, hopefully to include both conformation and IPO trial.

The feedback I have gotten from casual contacts was not much. We are a small club and cannot afford to spend all of our resources on an event like this with no help or support.

Additionally, it would be great IMO, to get members on the west coast together to meet, get to know each other, and share ideas on how to make our region more active.

So I would like to have as much feedback as possible from everyone here who might be interested....

1) Would you travel to/attend a UDC event in Santa Rosa, California?

2) would you enter a UDC conformation event? - same location?

3) Would you enter a UDC IPO trial - same location?

4) Would you support either or both types of events with help in putting it on?

All answers appreciated! Time is short for planning this event in Spring, 2009.

Lorna O'Connor
Western Regional Director
I live on the east coast and could not trvel that far but I aaplaud your initiative. The biggest problem with UDC is a lack of conformation events. I have been investigating AKC clubs so as to get more involved with my dobe. It is unfortunate that people are not willing to put in the time necessary to effectively promote the heritage of the working Dobe. I am as guilty as the next. I wish ther was a way to cooporate with AKC on in some way on such events. The closest UDC affiliated club is an hour and a half away from me (Tristate Doberman club) They have the only UDC conformation event besides the nationals that I know of. Good luck.
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post #43 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-01-2009, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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We have had a great response and our event is confirmed and ready to go. We will be e-mailing and mailing premium lists in the next few weeks. Here's the details....

Redwood Working Dobermann Club
Western Regional UDC Event
Conformation Show & IPO Trial
Temperament Testing - Friday, April 3rd, 2009
Conformation Show & IPO Tracking - Saturday, April 4th, 2009
IPO OB & Protection - Sunday April 5th, 2009

IPO entries are limited to 15 dogs. Practice days and helpers will be available at the field the week prior to the event.
Food & Drink will be available for purchase at the field.
Restrooms, electricity, shaded parking, and large dog exercise areas are all available at the field.
Location: Redwood Club field, 3163 Juniper Avenue, Santa Rosa, CA. 95407

Tracking on grass at Browns Farm, Sebastopol, CA.

Judges: Temperament Tests & Conformation: Nancy Christensen

IPO Trial: Ted Hartmann (DVG)

Helpers: Shane Garrehy, Brian Dewey, & Chuck Dickinson


Contact: Lorna O'Connor (707) 544-6371 or [email protected]


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2007, 2008, 2010 ADA Siegerin
UDC/ADA CH.Tahi Reme Gloria
CGC, STT, ZTP-V1B, SchH 3, IPO 3
2010 ADA SIEGER, Incredible Courage, CGC,STT,
ZTP-V1A, IPO 3, SchH 3
Jewell iz Gratsiano, BH
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post #44 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-01-2009, 02:16 PM
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I would like a premium list! We might try and make it down. Is the IPO trial limited to Dobermans only?

Jessica Wilcock, DVM
Talent Dobermans

Home of:
Am/Can CH Talent's Hector v BJF CD,RE,BH,ROM
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post #45 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-01-2009, 03:45 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by talentdobe View Post
I would like a premium list! We might try and make it down. Is the IPO trial limited to Dobermans only?
We would LOVE to see you Jessica! The IPO trial is open to all breeds and at this time, we'll have at least 2 GSD's and 1 mali. I hope you and Mark can make it!


Lorna & the INCREDIBLE Dobermanns...
2007, 2008, 2010 ADA Siegerin
UDC/ADA CH.Tahi Reme Gloria
CGC, STT, ZTP-V1B, SchH 3, IPO 3
2010 ADA SIEGER, Incredible Courage, CGC,STT,
ZTP-V1A, IPO 3, SchH 3
Jewell iz Gratsiano, BH
Incredible Honor
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talentdobe (01-01-2009)
post #46 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-04-2009, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
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There has been a change in helpers as we are continually working on getting the best avaialble for our event....

We now have Shane Garrehy & Jose from Alameda (whose last name escapes me at the monemt but he has done regionals and nationals too - like Shane) for our IPO trial.

Patrick O'Connor will do temperament tests provided he is completely recovered from shoulder surgery this month.


Lorna & the INCREDIBLE Dobermanns...
2007, 2008, 2010 ADA Siegerin
UDC/ADA CH.Tahi Reme Gloria
CGC, STT, ZTP-V1B, SchH 3, IPO 3
2010 ADA SIEGER, Incredible Courage, CGC,STT,
ZTP-V1A, IPO 3, SchH 3
Jewell iz Gratsiano, BH
Incredible Honor

Last edited by Incredibledobe; 01-04-2009 at 01:03 AM. Reason: spelling!
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post #47 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 11:58 PM
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Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Dogs Name: UDC Champ, Incredible Chanel SCH3 aka Basia
Titles: CGC WAC YTT ATT SCH3 IPO3
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Premium List for the UDC Event for Western Region

PREMIUM LIST IS READY. PLEASE EMAIL [email protected] TO REQUEST ONE BE SENT TO YOU. Looking forward to this "Dobie Fest".


Redwood Working Dobermann Club
Western Regional UDC Event
Conformation Show & IPO Trial
Temperament Testing - Friday, April 3rd, 2009
Conformation Show & IPO Tracking - Saturday, April 4th, 2009
IPO OB & Protection - Sunday April 5th, 2009

IPO entries are limited to 15 dogs. Practice days and helpers will be available at the field the week prior to the event.
Food & Drink will be available for purchase at the field.
Restrooms, electricity, shaded parking, and large dog exercise areas are all available at the field.
Location: Redwood Club field, 3163 Juniper Avenue, Santa Rosa, CA. 95407

Tracking on grass at Browns Farm, Sebastopol, CA.

Judges: Temperament Tests & Conformation: Nancy Christensen

IPO Trial: Ted Hartmann (DVG)

Marie Miller
Vom Lohner Kennel
Rio Di Perlanera, CGC,OB1(retired)
UDC Ch. Incredible Chanel, CGC,WAC,YTT,ATT,SCH3,IPO3
Rebholzer Danzig
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