What do Breeders think about new California Law - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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What do Breeders think about new California Law

https://katu.com/news/nation-world/c...-dogs-and-cats

Curious to what our forum experts think of this new law.

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 10:30 AM
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I have not seen a pet store that sells puppy's in a very long time , pets really should not be a impulse buy , more of a purchase much like some of the gun laws...a 3 day cooling off period.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 11:13 AM
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Generally, it doesn't bother me as long as people aren't walking in, seeing a cute pet and walking out the door with it as an impulse purchase. I hope that the agencies placing pets that way would be checking out the homes.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 01:15 PM
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I've seen many breeders upset over this but I think most are assuming worst case scenarios. The pet stores that I have seen that implement this usually are working hand and hand with the local shelter. Will that always happen? no. But I think it will happen in a majority of the cases.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 02:14 PM
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Yeah.. What GR said.

Portland is a very pro dog town. The only time I see puppy and cats for sale in a local pet supply store is in conjunction with a pet adoption push. And, they are usually advertised events. And they are not actually "for sale". Its is a pet adoption fee with and adoption contract. But in all fairness... I don't shop at large generic pet stores.

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 10:07 PM
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Are the pet stores supposed to act as satellite "storefronts" for the shelters? If not, who benefits here? The owner of the pet store? Do the shelters get some percentage?

I mean, I get the law...I just don't think this is the best way to effectuate it. It encourages impulse buying. And, assuming the conditions of pet stores won't be required to change as well, animals will be kept in worse conditions than a shelter. Or, at least that's how it always seemed in the pet stores I went in as a child.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-04-2019, 03:48 PM
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Maybe it will stop the flow of dogs to Canada.... Sorry I have a small beef with all the retail rescue we have in my area...
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-04-2019, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiloh View Post
Are the pet stores supposed to act as satellite "storefronts" for the shelters? If not, who benefits here? The owner of the pet store? Do the shelters get some percentage?

I mean, I get the law...I just don't think this is the best way to effectuate it. It encourages impulse buying. ...

That seems to me to be exactly what is happening at pet stores nowadays- they've become storefronts for rescue adoptions...

This could benefit the Pet Store in several ways:

1) Draw customers into pet store, even if they don't adopt
2) New adopters would tend to purchase needed food/supplies at same store
3) Store might get a cut of adoption fees or charge a fixed fee.
4) Circumvent new restrictive state/city laws on pet sales. (such as in CA)

Chain Pet Store where we buy our dog food/supplies has regular adoption events almost every weekend.

Also, we spent many weekends at a different spin-off pet store (from large chain) training Spock for CGC. There was always an adoption event each Saturday. I witnessed lots of impulse adopting of pets. (toy dogs were most popular)

Didn't appear to be any home or background checking going on, as done with single breed shelters, just lots of dogs adopted and pet products being sold! Only difference between this operation and city shelter would be the no-kill policy for the pets.

Just my observations.

Maybe a DT member who has actually organized adoption events such as these, could enlighten us?


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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-04-2019, 08:42 PM
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I don't really think it will have a very big impact on much of anything. Not that many people buy puppies from pet stores anymore - they go online and order direct from the greeder/dealer.

There is a pet store not too far from here that has always sold puppies claiming they are "rescues"...... I think I was born a skeptic.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-04-2019, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzmar Dobermans View Post
There is a pet store not too far from here that has always sold puppies claiming they are "rescues"...... I think I was born a skeptic.
You're not a skeptic, it's been proven... . Happens here too. Many "rescues" here import pregnant females about to pop, then sell the pups for 500-600! Many also smuggle pups over the border illegally and "adopt" them out. It's terrible.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 06:39 AM
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I have noticed that for the past few years here ( Indiana ) I have not seen any puppies for sell in a pet store - or kitties - If there is any kittens in the crates - they say they are from our local shelter and up for adoption .


I should say that these pet stores are our local one's - It may be different in - near Indy
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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Wonder if they could be a starting point in law making .......meaning later could they start regulating other things like breeders?
California many times can be quite the trend starter in future laws........what do you thinK ?
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 01:18 PM
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The AKC has this to say about similar laws:
https://www.akc.org/clubs-delegates/...p-laws-affect/ Of course, the AKC is just interested in registering dogs, the more "purebreds" the merrier, and can advocate bad breeding practices themselves, but one point is made here--some of these laws are framed in such a way that decent breeders are affected too--it's often in the fine print.

It seems to me that, as with just about all regulations, the responsible folks get caught by a lot of these laws, and the really bad ones just skate by and find another way to do what they want to do. A lot of states already have laws about puppy mills and bad breeding practices, but it does't seem to make much of a difference. The state doesn't fund the personnel they need to police their regulations, and the rules are often too vague to apply, anyway. What do you do about the skinny dog on a chain in the backyard next to yours? He has a dish of food thrown at him from time to time and a water dish that is more or less kept filled; he has a shelter of some sort--that's all the law requires. And places like Kimbertal--bad breeders, we all know, but they find a way to pass their inspections, (mostly) and they make money--there may be a tax reward that keeps the state from shutting them down?

I'm wondering if anyone remembers...it seems like California was discussing some kind of state-wide legislation a few years ago that dog show folks said would really affect their ability or desire to enter shows in that state. I don't remember anything about what it said, or if it got passed. Does that ring a bell with anyone??



I'm thinking a lot of education about puppy-mills and bad breeders aimed at ordinary pet owners may be a better way to go. But there is always the impulse or thoughtless buyer who won't listen to anything that is said, and the guy who doesn't want to spend the money that those "avaricious" breeders charge for their puppies (you know, the ones who test for health problems and make sure their puppies have an enriched environment? The ones who spend beaucoup money to title their dogs?) And there are always things the bad guys can do to "explain" their puppy-sales--"the litter was an accident; I'm planning on fixing the female so it won't happen again." Call me a cynic, but yeah sure.......

It's always a problem with these regulations...how to fine tune them so that bad breeding practices and sales are stopped, yet the good breeders aren't so over-regulated that they just quit trying to keep a kennel going.

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Mel.....now we are treading...or is that threading......LOL......these things are what I was wondering about.

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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 01:28 PM
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"The new law says individuals are still allowed to buy from breeders."
Of course breeders are the next target , their has been a undertone against them brewing for years.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 01:40 PM
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Re-edited my post to say even more!!! Check again if you want to hear even more of a rant.
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 07:12 PM
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Glancing through the California animal laws, I found this one interesting.

"The state further prohibits an owner from permitting any dog to run at large on a farm where "livestock or domestic fowls" are kept, absent special circumstances."

I'm guessing (only partly in sarcasm), that you have to pay the state a fee so your dog can be registered as an official farm dog. And dish out even more money if you are actually using your dog for herding---you'll need a permit stating that there are "special circumstances" which apply to your dog. Ka-ching!

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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-06-2019, 01:05 PM
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I don’t think the new California law will have much, if any, direct impact on responsible breeders. It explicitly excludes breeders when defining “pet store”, so the concerns AKC expresses about how breeders are affected by new definitions of pet sellers in other states don’t apply. That’s not to say the AKC is aligned with the California law - probably not, since it will likely impact purebred sales overall. But it doesn’t impact direct sales by a breeder.

Here is how the California law defines pet store: “(i) “Pet store” means a retail establishment open to the public and selling or offering for sale animals, including, but not limited to, animals for use as pets or animals intended as food for other animals. “Pet store” does not include a retail establishment open to the public and selling or offering for sale animals to agricultural operations for purposes that are directly related to the raising of livestock or poultry on a farm or ranch. A person who sells, exchanges, or otherwise transfers only animals that were bred or raised, or both, by the person, or sells or otherwise transfers only animals kept primarily for reproduction, shall be considered a breeder and not a pet store.” [California Health & Safety Code, Section 122350]

The new law does mean that animals sold by pet stores must first be spayed or neutered since rescue animals generally must be. And while we all know this often isn't the best course for the individual animal, it has some significant pros for animal welfare as a whole. (I personally dislike the blanket neuter/spay laws, but I also recognize their benefit and the effort and politics around being more targetted about it.)

If you’re interested, you can find the changes made by the bill here: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...201720180AB485. The page will also let you navigate through the code itself.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-06-2019, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
Glancing through the California animal laws, I found this one interesting.

"The state further prohibits an owner from permitting any dog to run at large on a farm where "livestock or domestic fowls" are kept, absent special circumstances."

I'm guessing (only partly in sarcasm), that you have to pay the state a fee so your dog can be registered as an official farm dog. And dish out even more money if you are actually using your dog for herding---you'll need a permit stating that there are "special circumstances" which apply to your dog. Ka-ching!
Mel, I think you may have stopped reading a little too soon on this one: “It is unlawful for any person to permit any dog which is owned, harbored, or controlled by him to run at large on any farm on which livestock or domestic fowls are kept, without the consent of the owner of the farm...”

I’m sure there are oddities in the code, but this one seems like its reasonable.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 01:50 AM
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Cool--thanks for the extra part. My bad on this one...California, I take back my post (just this one, mind you)

My quote was from a summary of California Animal Law
Author: William McCarty Noall Publlshed by Pepperdine University School of Law

It gave quite a different impression.

"The state further prohibits an owner from permitting any dog to run at large on a farm where "livestock or domestic fowls" are kept, absent special circumstances."

Guess I should have gone to the true source: CA Food & Agri Code § 30955 (2013) which says what you quoted.

But really I thought that a Michigan State University review would be accurate. The article I saw was quite a bit older; what you quoted is from 2013, so maybe they changed the wording to be more specific??

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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-14-2019, 10:19 PM
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Here's some of CA's dogs that were "going" to be "killed", retail rescue anyone?

https://www.citynews1130.com/video/2...YChvgt1soEoN6Q
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