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08-16-2018 08:12 PM
4x4bike ped
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mireille View Post
Feeling dumb, I should have checked the dates.
LOL... I do it all the time!

John
Portland OR
08-16-2018 04:49 PM
Mireille Feeling dumb, I should have checked the dates.
08-16-2018 01:11 PM
4x4bike ped Hi.. Mirielle

This thread is 8 yers old. You may want to start a new one.

John
Portland OR
08-16-2018 12:33 PM
Mireille
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobesofwizland View Post
What I have started doing with our little female who acts somewhat the same as yours is to say to her"Whats that" and get her to look at me and treat immediately. Even when she hears another dog barking I have done this and we walked across the street from another dog being walked and she didn't even react! I watched her body language and when she started to react to the other dog, I asked her What is that and she looked and got a treat.
I have been playing the what's that game with mine too. We only recently started that and it seems to be working at least while off leash with something much less conducive to reactivity than the sight of another dog when he is on leash. Off leash he is totally fine with everything. I have signed him up for a reactive dog class and they want us to use a head harness or gentle leader. From reading other posts here I am considering the canny collar.
11-07-2010 10:54 PM
MeadowCat I personally agree with your trainer and would not put a prong on her, even the Neck Tech.
11-07-2010 09:50 PM
Audrey1
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Both are calming agents. Rescue Remedy is a liquid and is also used for people. It's homeopathic flower essences. DAP is "Dog Appeasing Pheromone" which you can get in a spray. It's not to spray on the dog, though, so you'd need her to wear something.

It might help. I'd personally give it a try. I use either one or both for Shanoa when we're going somewhere that might cause some anxiety. I don't notice that she's any different other than she is less likely to react to things that normally make her anxious. She's not "drugged" or altered in any perceivable way, if that makes sense. It just seems that when I use it she's just a little more able to function during circumstances that might cause reactivity.

Rescue Remedy: Rescue&reg Remedy - Official Site
DAP: Dog Appeasing Pheromone: Dog Anxiety, Pheromone Spray
OK, thanks. I will check it out. Worth a try. Hey, maybe it will somehow make her think I am less anxious and then she might be. I'd take that. lol
11-07-2010 09:47 PM
Audrey1 My behaviorist didn't want me to use the prong because she felt Audrey would associate any pain with the other dog and that it would make things worse. That's why I use the Sense-ation harness (also because it reduces her power and she doesn't pull and walks really nicely on it). I do have a prong and also the newer swankier model by HS which looks like a metal necklace and haven't used them since the harness. But maybe I will put one on and have another lighter, shorter leash and use it if I need to if we run into a dog...and see if that works...
As is, like I posted just above, when there is no other dog around, she walks like a charm. Right next to me, leash is short but loose and she is relaxed.
Lexi sounds a lot like Audrey, but Audrey has given up on squirrels..but not on cats.
11-07-2010 09:42 PM
MeadowCat Both are calming agents. Rescue Remedy is a liquid and is also used for people. It's homeopathic flower essences. DAP is "Dog Appeasing Pheromone" which you can get in a spray. It's not to spray on the dog, though, so you'd need her to wear something.

It might help. I'd personally give it a try. I use either one or both for Shanoa when we're going somewhere that might cause some anxiety. I don't notice that she's any different other than she is less likely to react to things that normally make her anxious. She's not "drugged" or altered in any perceivable way, if that makes sense. It just seems that when I use it she's just a little more able to function during circumstances that might cause reactivity.

Rescue Remedy: Rescue&reg Remedy - Official Site
DAP: Dog Appeasing Pheromone: Dog Anxiety, Pheromone Spray
11-07-2010 09:37 PM
Audrey1
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Have you tried Rescue Remedy or DAP before you go on a walk? The DAP comes in a spray that you could put on a bandana around her neck. It might take just enough of the edge off to allow her to focus on you more easily.
Never heard of it. Calming agent? She is actually totally fine walking unless we have a dog coming towards us and we can't get away. When we are walking normally she focuses fine on me and she is right on my left side and doesn't pull. She focuses on me when there are construction people, leaf blowing machines, FedEx men, garbage trucks, motorcycles, etc. But you must understand that I walk her in our neighborhood or other places which don't have a lot of people (like downtown or some shopping area).

Would Rescue Remedy or DAP affect her even when she is not 'edgy'.
11-07-2010 09:33 PM
Herb2relax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audrey1 View Post
I do want some opinions on whether I am hurting her to hold her off her front feet with her collar high on her neck. If she is reactive and I have her collar and she starts to lunge, last night I found I could hold her there(probably less than a 10" off the ground) if the circumstances were all in my favor. Is this physically all right for her i.e. I don't want to do anything that is harmful. Thanks.
I was taught that the more you pull on the collar the more you are teaching them to pull but this was for walking on leash. I feel doing this could be making her more reactive. I am not sure what to tell you to do seems you are trying lots of things. When Lexi(rip) did this when seeing a dog(not as bad) or squirrel (the worst) I would turn and go in the other direction if I could and I understand what you are saying once over that threshold it really doesnt matter what you do feed/try and get attention nothing really works so you have to try and catch everything first which is not going to happen all the time. Not a very relaxing walk when you have to be on guard all the time. But do your best to keep from being tense/nervous as best you can your dog can sense it. Just keep working at it and hopefully you will see some progress remember it can be a long road. But what a great mom she has!

Also before going to training I had gotten Lexi a halti or gentle leader head halter and when I showed up my trainer made me take it off immediately. He did not approve of it even tho I thought it made my walks way easier. After being educated about the prong collar I ablsolutely love it. I use them on my terriers also. When out walking 3 dogs I use them if they were to all want to do something at once there is no way I could hold them all. If I have help I may not use them and when Kyrah and I go on outings I rarely use it but usually have it packed just in case. After learning how it works and seeing how easily I can control my dogs, they havent always walked like they do now, it is a training tool I will probably always want to have on hand. Dont think they cant rare on hind legs with it on b/c Lexi had no problems doing that IMO they just dont seem to pull as hard. Of course with her level of reaction I might get a trainers opinion first.
11-07-2010 08:53 PM
MeadowCat Have you tried Rescue Remedy or DAP before you go on a walk? The DAP comes in a spray that you could put on a bandana around her neck. It might take just enough of the edge off to allow her to focus on you more easily.
11-07-2010 06:06 PM
Audrey1 LuvMyDobes, yes if you were closer, we could work together. It's hard to find someone who is willing to do that. As for the body block, my husband will do that when there is no choice and that works for him. That is why I also asked about lifting her front paws off the ground.
Lelise - thanks for your insight. When my husband does it, she will fight but not so hard since he is able to control her physically by keeping her close to him. But if keeping her close to him is not a good thing, then he should not do that.
When we have been in a controlled situation, such as OB class, she can do her exercise in the classroom as long as the other dogs are facing away from her or at least focusing on their owners...and she focuses on me and then the exercise we are doing is fine. But on the street, it doesn't always work to ask someone to 'wait' so I can get some distance or to not look at her while I turn her around. People with well-socialized dogs just don't get it.
Melbrod, yes, I do all that. But it is good to post for reminder to all. Fortunately, we can go for a couple of weeks with no incident and then maybe 2 in one walk. Since I walk her 4 times a day for about 45 min. each walk, going for 2 weeks without an incident is good.
Thank you all for your input. I appreciate it.
11-07-2010 12:37 PM
melbrod Do your best, as you train, to distract and change the situation BEFORE she spots the other dog and starts to get even the least bit worried--start with the treats when YOU see something in the distance; don't wait until she sees a dog and starts getting upset. The same thing with seeing a future problem and turning away from the problem.

Hopefully,with time and patience, your ability to distract her will improve and her reaction distance will get smaller and smaller.

I know that would be awfully hard in a place where you meet other dogs randomly, but the more you can keep her from being triggered into bad behavior, the better. Make it easier for her to succeed by taking away the circumstances that tempt her to fail.

I bet you know this, but sometimes the obvious needs to be said, if only for other readers.
11-07-2010 12:05 PM
lelise All I know is that holding your dog back or close to you only intensifies their reaction and actually reinforces the behavior. In a pack, an unbalanced dog would be distanced from the pack leader until it is corrected, not brought closer.

My dog used to get very anxious (whining and pulling in the dog's direction) or aggressive in reaction to another aggressive dog on walks. When I made up my mind that we were going to walk past a dog and he was going to ignore it... that made a huge difference. (It didn't happen overnight, but my attitude drastically improved my dog's behavior). If your dog senses that you are anxious about an approaching dog they will react accordingly because you are showing weakness. Once I decided to take control of the walk before any problems occurred, the dogs didn't even react to what they would have before because they didn't feel that I thought it was a threat.
11-07-2010 10:36 AM
LuvMyDobes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audrey1 View Post
LuvMyDobes, thank you for your response.
Most of the time we can turn and go (with her on my left, a left turn with my body is more powerful than a right turn/pull) and most of the time she will go with me to avoid the situation. Believe me I feel no shame in avoiding a threat!
The only time we are in trouble is when I am stuck on both sides with dogs or a dog is coming towards us faster than we can move away...or if I choose to not walk the extra few blocks to go around the dog and try to remove ourselves visually from the other dog.

Yes, I need to get her to ALWAYS listen to me. Thanks.
Is there any way to see that situation coming and get her off to the side? I have done that in a pinch using my body to block my dog from the others. I wish you lived closer, we could work together.
11-07-2010 09:21 AM
Audrey1 LuvMyDobes, thank you for your response.
Most of the time we can turn and go (with her on my left, a left turn with my body is more powerful than a right turn/pull) and most of the time she will go with me to avoid the situation. Believe me I feel no shame in avoiding a threat!
The only time we are in trouble is when I am stuck on both sides with dogs or a dog is coming towards us faster than we can move away...or if I choose to not walk the extra few blocks to go around the dog and try to remove ourselves visually from the other dog.

Yes, I need to get her to ALWAYS listen to me. Thanks.
11-07-2010 09:04 AM
LuvMyDobes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audrey1 View Post
I do want some opinions on whether I am hurting her to hold her off her front feet with her collar high on her neck. If she is reactive and I have her collar and she starts to lunge, last night I found I could hold her there(probably less than a 10" off the ground) if the circumstances were all in my favor. Is this physically all right for her i.e. I don't want to do anything that is harmful. Thanks.
Yes, holding her off of the ground can be perceived by the dog as punishment and sometimes makes them worse because they relate that action with the other dog and often it exasperates the situation. It can hurt and will not help her overcome her fear or aggression. What you need to do is first learn the signs she gives that she is going to react, watch her very closely and before she begins to react, THEN you use the “back up recall” or the “turn and go “ technique.

The 'back up recall' is usually taught in obedience classes. You walk with the dog on your left and while moving forward, you stop and back up several steps calling the dog to your front. This displaces her attention away from the other dog unto to you.

The 'turn and go' technique is simply saying your dogs name in a upbeat fun voice and turning away from whatever is causing her to react and going away from it. This sounds like the method that will work best for her right now.

Both of these techniques are rewarding for the dog because they remove her from the threat, keep her under threshold and usually the dog is rewarded through praise and treats which is all good. You should practice these moves at home BEFORE you go out where you will encounter other dogs so she knows what the drill is. Just remember there is no shame in avoiding a threat. Good luck!
11-06-2010 08:10 PM
Audrey1 CU is awesome. I have the book and have started reading it slowly, to digest and employ methods. But, if my gal gets reactive, even before she hits 10, she is not interested in food. You can throw the food on her head and she pays no attention.

It's basically dogs she doesn't know (and she only can walk with 3 dogs)...so, that's a lot of dogs she 'doesn't know'.

I do want some opinions on whether I am hurting her to hold her off her front feet with her collar high on her neck. If she is reactive and I have her collar and she starts to lunge, last night I found I could hold her there(probably less than a 10" off the ground) if the circumstances were all in my favor. Is this physically all right for her i.e. I don't want to do anything that is harmful. Thanks.
11-06-2010 07:02 PM
MeadowCat CU is awesome. I find that using a food tube filled with canned green tripe, or a canned dog food, is a great way to give fast, constant reinforcement when you are working on something in CU in a situation where normally a dog would be too "sharky" to be taking treats from your hand. I've had a lot of success with that method.
11-06-2010 11:19 AM
AuraDobe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audrey1 View Post
That works if I am going by barking dogs in a yard but not if the other dog is on the street (on leash with owner) and I am unable to turn around to get distance. This would happen if the other owner is also walking fast towards me and doesn't slow down, or if I am in a situation where I can't go back or turn at a corner because there is another dog w/owner in which case I have to try to go behind something where she can't see them. These situations don't happen too often but they do happen and I am never comfortable or confident about it.

Last night when I had her front feet off the ground by holding her collar, it worked because she doesn't have enough power in only her hind legs to lunge. But I don't know if that hurts her by holding her up off her front feet like that (lifting her by the collar high up on her neck). If someone has an opinion on this, pls let me know.

I will check out the links given above. Thanks.

Do you have the book Controll Unleashed? This may be helpful to you. Leslie (the author) does an exercise she calls, "there's a dog in your face!" The goal is to build a positive association to, well, dogs being in her face.

You might look into CU classes, too, they might be really helpful to you guys.
11-06-2010 10:21 AM
Audrey1
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobesofwizland View Post
What I have started doing with our little female who acts somewhat the same as yours is to say to her"Whats that" and get her to look at me and treat immediately. Even when she hears another dog barking I have done this and we walked across the street from another dog being walked and she didn't even react! I watched her body language and when she started to react to the other dog, I asked her What is that and she looked and got a treat.
That works if I am going by barking dogs in a yard but not if the other dog is on the street (on leash with owner) and I am unable to turn around to get distance. This would happen if the other owner is also walking fast towards me and doesn't slow down, or if I am in a situation where I can't go back or turn at a corner because there is another dog w/owner in which case I have to try to go behind something where she can't see them. These situations don't happen too often but they do happen and I am never comfortable or confident about it.

Last night when I had her front feet off the ground by holding her collar, it worked because she doesn't have enough power in only her hind legs to lunge. But I don't know if that hurts her by holding her up off her front feet like that (lifting her by the collar high up on her neck). If someone has an opinion on this, pls let me know.

I will check out the links given above. Thanks.
11-06-2010 09:27 AM
dobesofwizland What I have started doing with our little female who acts somewhat the same as yours is to say to her"Whats that" and get her to look at me and treat immediately. Even when she hears another dog barking I have done this and we walked across the street from another dog being walked and she didn't even react! I watched her body language and when she started to react to the other dog, I asked her What is that and she looked and got a treat.
11-06-2010 09:11 AM
AuraDobe The only head collar that I would even consider is the Canny Collar. It brings the nose down to the neck, not around, so there is much less danger of injury.

The Canny Collar - The Best Collar to Stop Dogs Pulling on the Leash

Good luck with your girl.
11-06-2010 08:12 AM
LuvMyDobes I use the http://www.snootloop.com/ and have found that it actually helps keep Sweep calm in situations where other dogs cannot be avoided. When I took her for her echo, we had to go into a waiting room full of all kinds and sizes of dogs. She entered and sat by me while I checked in and then quietly sat by me while I filled out paperwork. A flat coated retriever lunged and barked at her twice but she did not react at all. She has worn the snoot loop in classes and I believe that when it is on, she knows I am in charge and will take care of things. We are now working on getting that trust without the snoot loop.

I have always been against head halters because of possible neck injury but the fit of the snoot loop is different and the control is basically from the collar which sits up high on the neck behind the ears all of the time and although the ring is under the chin, the collar is what directs the dog, not the headpiece.
11-06-2010 12:19 AM
Audrey1 Mangujowa - I chuckle at your comment about the need for very high value treats. Yes, she would do the same - mainly not be interested in food if she saw a dog...or maybe try to eat the food and your hand while still staring and getting ready to react. Yes, she gets out on a walk with doggie friend at least once a week.

Adara - yes, she misunderstands...she doesn't trust other dogs. What is BAT? yes, my main objective is to keep everyone safe.

I walked her rather late tonight since I had to go out. On the way home, there was a dog in front of our house. She did not like that at all! I took her around the corner, behind a bush and up someone's driveway. Held her collar and got her front feet off the ground and she was unable to pull or lunge or spin. That worked. I had to hold her there until the other dog was down the street..then she was calmer. I think I will try to do this technique unless someone thinks I should not.
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