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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-18-2019 04:19 PM
lindajoy HQ Dobermans is very well known in the Midwest. She breeds beautiful dogs that excel in various venues. She has litters on the ground now, although maybe not available. I would also talk to Kathleen with Smack-Dab around the Chicago area if you are interested in agility. 3 of the the 2019 TOP 20 were her breeding and she also has been breeding for a long time.
12-06-2019 01:30 PM
dobebug You know, I'm sure that in a litter bred by a reliable breeder hoping for show prospects that there will be several puppies who really aren't show prospect--for the most part the things that make not show prospects are minor and for the most part no one would ever notice them. But if the breeder is breeding for and producing proper temperament the pet puppies will have all the same (or at least similar) qualities as the show pups.

Most of the breeders I know charge almost the same price for their pet puppies as the show prospects because they have the same health testing, the same parents who have been health tested and are probably champions so I don't think you need, for what you say you want, to get a show prospect.

But do remember that many quality breeders (as someone already mentioned) require a co-ownership on pets as well.

Several of the breeders I know pretty well sell pets on co-ownerships with a clause that says when the puppy is neutered he/she will be signed over the to person entirely.

dobebug
12-06-2019 11:14 AM
MeadowCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meldrew79 View Post
Reading this old post makes me laugh! I started researching breeders in 2012 and didn't end up buying a pup until 2016! Just goes to show that it's true what they say about the best-laid plans....
Actually, really a testament to patience, and waiting for the right puppy!
12-05-2019 03:17 PM
vargab81
12-05-2019 03:10 PM
Meldrew79 Reading this old post makes me laugh! I started researching breeders in 2012 and didn't end up buying a pup until 2016! Just goes to show that it's true what they say about the best-laid plans....
12-03-2019 01:53 PM
greenkouki
Quote:
Originally Posted by vargab81 View Post
I prefer show dogs as they have a easier temperament compared to working dogs and look wise more perfect.Also I want to show my dog.
I guess I meant vs. a "pet", sorry for not being more explicit.
12-03-2019 12:59 PM
vargab81
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenkouki View Post
Is there a reason you want a show dog vs. a pet/performance?
I prefer show dogs as they have a easier temperament compared to working dogs and look wise more perfect.Also I want to show my dog.
11-28-2019 09:55 AM
MeadowCat I thought Denise Fenzi's blog on contracts was pretty level headed: https://denisefenzi.com/2018/04/purc...th-a-contract/
11-27-2019 02:46 PM
Fitzmar Dobermans I think there are some generic contracts listed somewhere.... will have to think about where. Mine is outdated, and I don't make it public.
11-26-2019 10:45 AM
Artemis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
If you really like this pup, then ask for a copy of the contract to read. See if you can live with the terms of it. If there are things you don't like, ask the breeder if you can reach a compromise on them. If you and the breeder can't agree on terms, and you think that there is no way you can live with the contract, then say "thanks, but no thanks", and look elsewhere.

I second this. I strongly encourage people to ask to see the contract even before they get on a waitlist or put a deposit, because the contract will say a lot about a breeder's mentality and values, and it makes more sense to see if you mesh well earlier on.
11-26-2019 10:36 AM
Rosemary
Quote:
Originally Posted by vargab81 View Post
Can you please share a sample co-owner contract for a male show puppy - so that I know what to expect. A very generic one would do. I will try to stick to the generic one I get so that I do not land myself with trouble with my first show dog.
It really depends on the breeder.

Some of them have a fairly simple one page contract requiring that their name stay on the dog, the dog has to have all appropriate health testing before being bred, the breeder has to approve any breeding decisions, and the usual the dog comes back to them if you can't keep it.

The other end of the spectrum is a multi-page contract that spells out in excruciating detail exactly what you must feed the dog, exactly what handler you have to use, exactly what judges you can and can't enter under, how long you have to title the dog, and a whole host of nit-picky things that you have to do in every day life.

If you really like this pup, then ask for a copy of the contract to read. See if you can live with the terms of it. If there are things you don't like, ask the breeder if you can reach a compromise on them. If you and the breeder can't agree on terms, and you think that there is no way you can live with the contract, then say "thanks, but no thanks", and look elsewhere.
11-26-2019 09:33 AM
greenkouki Is there a reason you want a show dog vs. a pet/performance?
11-26-2019 08:10 AM
vargab81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzmar Dobermans View Post
I would never sell a show prospect puppy without a co-ownership. I did so once (to another Doberman breeder), and got royally screwed. That said, I agree that you really need to be comfortable with the breeder, and with the written contract. Some contracts are absolutely ridiculous - but most are fair.
Can you please share a sample co-owner contract for a male show puppy - so that I know what to expect. A very generic one would do. I will try to stick to the generic one I get so that I do not land myself with trouble with my first show dog.
11-25-2019 07:50 PM
Fitzmar Dobermans I would never sell a show prospect puppy without a co-ownership. I did so once (to another Doberman breeder), and got royally screwed. That said, I agree that you really need to be comfortable with the breeder, and with the written contract. Some contracts are absolutely ridiculous - but most are fair.
11-25-2019 03:29 PM
MeadowCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by vargab81 View Post
I do not have practical knowledge but have some friends in dog show world who know the ropes.As owner I "think" my responsibility will be to keep the dog in show condition with proper diet,supplement,exercising, socializing and show stacking. As I am paying full price for a puppy why do I still need to sign co-ownership and complicate things. My preference will be to get a puppy without co-ownership but if that is not possible I do not have a choice but to sign.
I can't think of many breeders that would sell a show puppy to a first-time show owner without a co-own. In fact, many breeders are moving to co-owns for pet pups, too, to protect themselves and the pups. There are opinions on that on both sides, of course. You have to decide how you feel about it, I suppose, but I would try not to buy a puppy from a breeder I didn't "mesh" with in the first place, nor would I buy from someone that had a contract I couldn't live with. My bitch is a "pet" (well, performance, but still "pet") puppy, and she was sold on a co-own contract, like all her breeder's puppies. Her breeder does it to protect her dogs in case something goes wrong. I've never had an issue with it. The contract isn't odd in any way (like I said, I wouldn't buy a dog that has a contract with anything I can't live with).

If you already feel like it's a situation where "you have no choice" or you don't feel comfortable, don't buy the puppy. Your breeder will be in your life for a decade, hopefully; will be someone to mentor you, someone you can call or text or contact when you need advice or help. Your contract shouldn't make you feel beholden to them, or constricted.
11-25-2019 10:54 AM
greenkouki The main reason for a co-ownership is to protect the breeder's reputation. If/when the dog is used as a stud both owners will have to sign AKC paperwork or the resulting litter can not be registered. I would be more concerned with what's in the actual contract. Read through it carefully and if there's anything that seems unreasonable, walk away or ask here for feedback. It can seem daunting to a new owner, but IMO if you're determined to finish the dog and he turns out as you and the breeder hoped, you both have good vibes and a rapport, then you should be A-OK. Some breeders will sign off as an owner after the dog is finished or when the dog reaches a certain age.
11-25-2019 09:59 AM
vargab81
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenkouki View Post
While I don't have first hand experience with this breeder I know they are reputable. Any breeder I know will co own a show potential puppy with the new owner, especially with a first time show home. Do you know what all is involved in showing and finishing a puppy?
I do not have practical knowledge but have some friends in dog show world who know the ropes.As owner I "think" my responsibility will be to keep the dog in show condition with proper diet,supplement,exercising, socializing and show stacking. As I am paying full price for a puppy why do I still need to sign co-ownership and complicate things. My preference will be to get a puppy without co-ownership but if that is not possible I do not have a choice but to sign.
11-25-2019 08:58 AM
greenkouki While I don't have first hand experience with this breeder I know they are reputable. Any breeder I know will co own a show potential puppy with the new owner, especially with a first time show home. Do you know what all is involved in showing and finishing a puppy?
11-25-2019 08:34 AM
vargab81 HQ doberman has another litter now - anyone here got any first hand experience of co-owning a dog with them.The breeder will only send a show male on co-ownership terms.I have never co-owned before so little hesitant.
04-20-2012 09:04 PM
Meldrew79 I just realized what she's emailing me! The pedigree is from a previous litter that has the same sire and dam that this litter has. I had first talked to the breeder she's co-breeding with and she told me that there were two puppies that she had info on and I bet that's what this is. I wish she would have been a little clearer when I emailed her, but I get it now.
04-20-2012 07:44 PM
Meldrew79 The litter's not due until the end of May, but she did tell me she was sending me the pedigree of the litter due.

Thanks for all the input Red and your patience with my newbieness
04-20-2012 07:15 PM
RedFawnRising
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meldrew79 View Post
The breeder told me that ABADIE'S WRITTEN IN THE STARS is the sire.
Okay, so is that the pup's pedigree, then? (Albeit a very abbreviated pedigree!)

If the pup you're considering is already registered, and that is her pedigree, then yes, her sire is as listed, and then her dam's name is below hers, in red, since she has her Championship.

You can look up the sire's health testing on Dobequest, if the breeder has entered it there, or just ask the breeder to look at copies of all the screenings.

ETA: I understood before, that was the litter's dam's pedigree, but if it's for the pup, then she is tested as a carrier, and so does not have vWD.



04-20-2012 09:27 AM
Meldrew79 The breeder told me that ABADIE'S WRITTEN IN THE STARS is the sire.
04-18-2012 11:32 AM
sam&macksmom https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...-pedigree.html

04-18-2012 11:30 AM
RedFawnRising
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meldrew79 View Post
I'm blushing here because I thought ABADIE'S WRITTEN IN THE STARS is the sire and AM.CH. HQ DINAH FLO is the dam!
I have so much to learn about this pedigree stuff!


I think those of us who hung around dog shows since we were wee brats sometimes kinda forget this is a learned skill.

We had a thread here called something like "Analyzing a Kimbertal Pedigree," which had some useful info for folks just starting out, on deciphering things--but me-n-the forum's search function are butting heads today. Perhaps you'll have better luck finding it!



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