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  Topic Review (Newest First)
09-29-2019 03:27 PM
melbrod Not trying to say the stress and food thing is wrong....it's just an insight I hadn't thought of before.

And I wondered too...HDD was much more reluctant to take food from anyone when we first got him, so I thought the stress idea was an interesting slant on things. Something to be aware of.

Carry on
09-29-2019 02:38 PM
modm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECIN View Post
MOD - with all out Dobers - when they were pups - I would at like the vet , I would work and work with them - I would tall them I was going to check there teeth , look in there ears , check there paws , everything but checking there temp. lol it really did work , the doc would always say something about how good they were when he did a checkup on them , now Kasia was the best at this , one day at the vets office , ole doc came and started to check her out - I asked if I could help , he laughed , he has knew us for a long time , he said sure , I looked at Kasia and pointed my figure at her and said show me your teeth and she peeled back her gum's and showed them to him - she really looked mean when she did that , then I asked her to show us her belly , she would lay down and then roll over with all 4 paws up in the air , Doc was about to bust a gut laughing , He said he wished everybody worked with there dogs like we did , it would make his job a lot easier , lol It just takes time working with them Mod , and I can see you two doing the same thing + it is so much fun to do .

Ha that is funny Doc. I did try some of that - probably not as much as I should have. I have thought to ride her over to the vets periodically even if not an appointment and just sit there in the waiting room with treats....just for a bit. Then take her back home. Get her used to it and not be a once in a while trip.

As I was reading and typing a thought came to me about Molly and O.D. - I think they know where we are going. When we would drive 8 hours to Mother-in-Laws, a few miles out or the turn down the road and they would start whining - a happy whine - and get excited. They knew where they were 8 hours later. When we would take them to the park 2 miles down the road - when we turned down the park road same thing happy happy happy.

Now go to vet and not so happy. Go to the Kennel we would drop them off while out of town for a week and not as happy. One time we got there opened the hatch they jumped out and immediately jumped back in..... And this was a pretty good place for Dobers. Just not with mom and dad.

Good advice from all - which reminded me I still need to read the post Rosemary did about the crate training website!
09-29-2019 02:24 PM
ECIN MOD - with all out Dobers - when they were pups - I would at like the vet , I would work and work with them - I would tall them I was going to check there teeth , look in there ears , check there paws , everything but checking there temp. lol it really did work , the doc would always say something about how good they were when he did a checkup on them , now Kasia was the best at this , one day at the vets office , ole doc came and started to check her out - I asked if I could help , he laughed , he has knew us for a long time , he said sure , I looked at Kasia and pointed my figure at her and said show me your teeth and she peeled back her gum's and showed them to him - she really looked mean when she did that , then I asked her to show us her belly , she would lay down and then roll over with all 4 paws up in the air , Doc was about to bust a gut laughing , He said he wished everybody worked with there dogs like we did , it would make his job a lot easier , lol It just takes time working with them Mod , and I can see you two doing the same thing + it is so much fun to do .
09-29-2019 02:06 PM
modm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
There's a difference between a dog that's NORMALLY very food motivated who is not wanting to take high value food in certain situations, and a dog who is generally not food motivated. It sounds like HD is just not terribly food motivated? Just not that into food at all...I'd be reluctant to say that his refusing food is a sign of stress, in that case, and I'd look for other stress signals.

If I misunderstood, and the OP's dog is the same (not interested in food in general), I'll take back what I said that it's stress. But if she's generally motivated by treats, then not wanting to take food in some circumstances can definitely be a stress signal.

No I think she is in stress during those times she just looks at the food....so I do stop. Once Mila gets into the treat....she will definitely like the treat.

Another example - we were at our vet (new vet for Mila) the first time. Was recommended by our trainer to take along some high value treats such as hot dogs. So I cut up some hot dogs and put them in a baggie. She did eat one or so at first but then would not. When we went into the room with the vet tech she tried to give Mila some treats from their stock. Mila had already stopped eating the hot dogs....so refused these treats as well. So was very stressed out by then. When the vet came in - all she did was listen to her heart and said that was good enough for one day.

Oh also trainer said don't try and make Mila sit or down during the trip just more pressure on her and putting her in bad position - so we did not.
09-29-2019 01:50 PM
MeadowCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
I never thought of it quite that way. Certainly when we first got Hairy Dog I thought he was not a treat dog. He would take the food and then drop it on the floor. He still is a little reluctant to try new food, especially things that aren't obviously food to him (wheat thins, cheerios, corn chips, ice cubes Ok, we've also tried carrots, cherry tomatoes and so on), but even if he is persuaded enough to try an actual crunch, he won't necessarily eat it, but leaves it behind on the floor.

And he's not particularly interested in his dog food. We've tried a few brands, but eventually decided that it was his style to kinda ignore the food for a bit and then decide he was hungry enough to eat. We don't exactly free feed; he gets a measured amount and no more, but it is left on the floor (in his dish, I mean) until he gets around to it an hour or two later.

I do remember the vet trying to give him a treat on his first visit. He seemed calm, even lying on his side on the floor as we talked, but he spat the treat out immediately. Same thing at agility at first.

Now that is NOT a problem. And even though he does pretty well with a tossed toy and a little tug game at the end, once the food comes out, forget the toy.
There's a difference between a dog that's NORMALLY very food motivated who is not wanting to take high value food in certain situations, and a dog who is generally not food motivated. It sounds like HD is just not terribly food motivated? Just not that into food at all...I'd be reluctant to say that his refusing food is a sign of stress, in that case, and I'd look for other stress signals.

If I misunderstood, and the OP's dog is the same (not interested in food in general), I'll take back what I said that it's stress. But if she's generally motivated by treats, then not wanting to take food in some circumstances can definitely be a stress signal.
09-29-2019 12:40 PM
modm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
I never thought of it quite that way. Certainly when we first got Hairy Dog I thought he was not a treat dog. He would take the food and then drop it on the floor. He still is a little reluctant to try new food, especially things that aren't obviously food to him (wheat thins, cheerios, corn chips, ice cubes Ok, we've also tried carrots, cherry tomatoes and so on), but even if he is persuaded enough to try an actual crunch, he won't necessarily eat it, but leaves it behind on the floor.

But I do remember the vet trying to give him a treat on his first visit. He seemed calm, even lying on his side on the floor as we talked, but he spat the treat out immediately. Same thing at agility at first.

Now that is NOT a problem. And even though he does pretty well with a tossed toy and a little tug game at the end, once the food comes out, forget the toy.
Yep - Mila is similar.....she does love the familiar treat. But is hmm suspicious at first. But once she likes it....she likes it....hmm sounds like Mikey.

Now she does like the soft toy. If we start opening up a bag that she thinks is a new toy for her or if we go to the gentleman's wardrobe where toys and such are she is all over it
09-29-2019 12:34 PM
melbrod
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Generally, if a dog won't take a treat, they are too stressed/overwhelmed. The good trainers I've worked with have generally said that's a sign that you're pushing too hard, your dog needs a break, you need to decrease your expectations, figure out how to set up the scenario to support the dog in a different way to make sure they are in a better emotional state. Not taking food is a really good indicator that whatever you're doing is "too much."
I never thought of it quite that way. Certainly when we first got Hairy Dog I thought he was not a treat dog. He would take the food and then drop it on the floor. He still is a little reluctant to try new food, especially things that aren't obviously food to him (wheat thins, cheerios, corn chips, ice cubes Ok, we've also tried carrots, cherry tomatoes and so on), but even if he is persuaded enough to try an actual crunch, he won't necessarily eat it, but leaves it behind on the floor.

And he's not particularly interested in his dog food. We've tried a few brands, but eventually decided that it was his style to kinda ignore the food for a bit and then decide he was hungry enough to eat. We don't exactly free feed; he gets a measured amount and no more, but it is left on the floor (in his dish, I mean) until he gets around to it an hour or two later.

I do remember the vet trying to give him a treat on his first visit. He seemed calm, even lying on his side on the floor as we talked, but he spat the treat out immediately. Same thing at agility at first.

Now that is NOT a problem. And even though he does pretty well with a tossed toy and a little tug game at the end, once the food comes out, forget the toy.
09-29-2019 11:06 AM
MeadowCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by modm View Post
Thanks MC! Generally it is not during normal training such as sit, down, go get it or here(come)....just when she doesn't want to walk on leash - or be put up when we have to leave the house. She now realizes when we are getting ready. And what it means when we take her to the bedroom.

The trainer we went to for 3 sessions mentioned similar - have a plan - when in the fire - make new plan. When we discussed we wanted Mila to sit before going out the door. She said what is the true goal - Do not run out the door like her hair is on fire....that is so she doesn't get hurt as the door opens up and she catches her foot under it before we get the door open.

So she said work on that - do not care about the sit at first. Just work on not rushing the door - one thing at a time.


Walking on leash
1. I still work with no leash and giver her treats when she is walking with me or around me
2. I will put leash on and walk with treat in hand and walk - give her some and walk some more around the yard - then I take it off
3. She has been much better in the back yard
4. Next step is take out the gate to the side yard and get her used to that area on leash - when I take her there now she is excited.

Putting her in a Kennel or now even the bedroom - when we leave
1. Kennel - we feed her at night in the kennel.
2. She is all the way in now while eating
3. Havent tried to put her in for a bit now.
4. Bedroom is next thing to work on
5. When we leave she is not happy - not sure if typical dober not wanting to be away from human or something more.

So I will work as you mentioned and the trainer - not push. Currently it is just down to the two items she is stuck with. Not perfect on other items but getting better. I don't work with her every day so not to over-work her.

Appreciate the insights and help!
I think you guys are doing great, and it sure sounds like you're working with a great trainer. Just keep it up, LOTS of patience, and you'll get there!
09-29-2019 11:02 AM
modm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Generally, if a dog won't take a treat, they are too stressed/overwhelmed. The good trainers I've worked with have generally said that's a sign that you're pushing too hard, your dog needs a break, you need to decrease your expectations, figure out how to set up the scenario to support the dog in a different way to make sure they are in a better emotional state. Not taking food is a really good indicator that whatever you're doing is "too much."
Thanks MC! Generally it is not during normal training such as sit, down, go get it or here(come)....just when she doesn't want to walk on leash - or be put up when we have to leave the house. She now realizes when we are getting ready. And what it means when we take her to the bedroom.

The trainer we went to for 3 sessions mentioned similar - have a plan - when in the fire - make new plan. When we discussed we wanted Mila to sit before going out the door. She said what is the true goal - Do not run out the door like her hair is on fire....that is so she doesn't get hurt as the door opens up and she catches her foot under it before we get the door open.

So she said work on that - do not care about the sit at first. Just work on not rushing the door - one thing at a time.


Walking on leash
1. I still work with no leash and giver her treats when she is walking with me or around me
2. I will put leash on and walk with treat in hand and walk - give her some and walk some more around the yard - then I take it off
3. She has been much better in the back yard
4. Next step is take out the gate to the side yard and get her used to that area on leash - when I take her there now she is excited.

Putting her in a Kennel or now even the bedroom - when we leave
1. Kennel - we feed her at night in the kennel.
2. She is all the way in now while eating
3. Havent tried to put her in for a bit now.
4. Bedroom is next thing to work on
5. When we leave she is not happy - not sure if typical dober not wanting to be away from human or something more.

So I will work as you mentioned and the trainer - not push. Currently it is just down to the two items she is stuck with. Not perfect on other items but getting better. I don't work with her every day so not to over-work her.

Appreciate the insights and help!
09-29-2019 10:49 AM
MeadowCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by modm View Post
Aye - that will be the plan...I like the idea of just one nail at a time....keep her stress down. I am ok with the clicking on the wood floors. They are scratched from Molly and O.D. as is so also no biggie for us either

Only issue I have seen with Mila - treats even fairly high-value treat if she doesn't want to do something or is a bit nervous the treat doesn't work. Even if I just give it to her....she won't even eat it. Just stares....so I back away and try again a different way...
Generally, if a dog won't take a treat, they are too stressed/overwhelmed. The good trainers I've worked with have generally said that's a sign that you're pushing too hard, your dog needs a break, you need to decrease your expectations, figure out how to set up the scenario to support the dog in a different way to make sure they are in a better emotional state. Not taking food is a really good indicator that whatever you're doing is "too much."
09-28-2019 02:15 PM
modm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNfisher View Post
Hmm yeah that could be a bit tricky. Mocha is very treat and praise motivated. Since your girl is a rescue, maybe part of that is trust? It's possible that over time, as you gain her trust, build that bond between you, and she gains confidence, everything will become easier.
Yep - I think you are right and whatever was in her past....I believe we are around 2 months with her now. Will keep on building that trust with lots of praise and treats.

I mean she does like treats - she slobbers quite a bit. My hands come away quite wet....lots of washing when done but when she puts her foot down....hmmm heard that somewhere before
09-28-2019 01:11 PM
TNfisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by modm View Post
Aye - that will be the plan...I like the idea of just one nail at a time....keep her stress down. I am ok with the clicking on the wood floors. They are scratched from Molly and O.D. as is so also no biggie for us either

Only issue I have seen with Mila - treats even fairly high-value treat if she doesn't want to do something or is a bit nervous the treat doesn't work. Even if I just give it to her....she won't even eat it. Just stares....so I back away and try again a different way...
Hmm yeah that could be a bit tricky. Mocha is very treat and praise motivated. Since your girl is a rescue, maybe part of that is trust? It's possible that over time, as you gain her trust, build that bond between you, and she gains confidence, everything will become easier.
09-28-2019 01:00 PM
modm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNfisher View Post
Dremel - what we did to get Mocha used to it was this:

Had her lay down, and I sat down on the floor next to her. Had some kibble for treats. Started out with Dremel in low power so she would get used to the noise then gradually turned power up to the setting I anted to use. I started out real slow, with one nail at a time, and just a little bit at a time, and she would get a treat after each nail. Just a second per nail at first. We did all 4 paws that way and yeah she got a lot of treats LOL. We did that every few days for a couple of weeks, than started with the treats after each paw was done and that's where we are now...all I have to do is say, "let's go do your nails" and she immediately goes to the container where her kibble is to make sure I get some , then she goes to my home office so we can do those nails.

I never have learned the trick of getting the nails show dog short...her quicks refuse to back off and I'm not going to hurt her to get short nails...so we put up with the clicking on the wood floors. No biggie to us.
Aye - that will be the plan...I like the idea of just one nail at a time....keep her stress down. I am ok with the clicking on the wood floors. They are scratched from Molly and O.D. as is so also no biggie for us either

Only issue I have seen with Mila - treats even fairly high-value treat if she doesn't want to do something or is a bit nervous the treat doesn't work. Even if I just give it to her....she won't even eat it. Just stares....so I back away and try again a different way...
09-28-2019 12:53 PM
TNfisher Dremel - what we did to get Mocha used to it was this:

Had her lay down, and I sat down on the floor next to her. Had some kibble for treats. Started out with Dremel in low power so she would get used to the noise then gradually turned power up to the setting I wanted to use. I started out real slow, with one nail at a time, and just a little bit at a time, and she would get a treat after each nail. Just a second per nail at first. We did all 4 paws that way and yeah she got a lot of treats LOL. We did that every few days for a couple of weeks, than started with the treats after each paw was done and that's where we are now...all I have to do is say, "let's go do your nails" and she immediately goes to the container where her kibble is to make sure I get some , then she goes to my home office so we can do those nails.

I never have learned the trick of getting the nails show dog short...her quicks refuse to back off and I'm not going to hurt her to get short nails...so we put up with the clicking on the wood floors. No biggie to us.
09-28-2019 12:46 PM
modm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECIN View Post
Silly Girl ! That's NO man chair ! Heck , a blind man could see that ! Look again Di ------ First off there are NO remotes on either of the arms !Number 2 - There is NO stack of beer cans next to the said chair in question ! Number 3 - No end table next to the chair to put his Doberman Mag. 's on ! This is just a start . Poor Scott !
Doc said it best!
09-28-2019 12:45 PM
modm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyDi View Post
Is that your man chair in the background?
Looks like a man chair
Just say’in
LOL - Not really I do sit in it frequently though when I put my shoes on to go out in the back yard....course then I have to do a lot of petting first as Mila is there leaning in hard against my legs!

It is a comfortable chair. Just not ideal for watching TV in that position. Plus not a recliner! Kicked back, feet up, TV on, and Eyes closed
09-28-2019 12:42 PM
ECIN
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyDi View Post
Is that your man chair in the background?
Looks like a man chair
Just say’in
Silly Girl ! That's NO man chair ! Heck , a blind man could see that ! Look again Di ------ First off there are NO remotes on either of the arms !Number 2 - There is NO stack of beer cans next to the said chair in question ! Number 3 - No end table next to the chair to put his Doberman Mag. 's on ! This is just a start . Poor Scott !
09-28-2019 12:33 PM
LadyDi Is that your man chair in the background?
Looks like a man chair
Just say’in
09-28-2019 11:21 AM
modm A few more photos of Mila.

We are still working on a number of things - basic obedience, kennel training, and leash walking. I have at times been putting treats in bowls and hiding them around the yard. I think she enjoys this. Although, I think she is seeing the bowls first before smelling the treat. Is this ok for first steps....then maybe ramp up the type of treats? I assume in the end the treat will just be the item hidden about?


My wife made Mila a coat - Matches her own spots (Freckles) - her skin is covered with them.



Another angle - if look closely can see some of her spots.


And here she is a lapdog - 79.6 lbs of her
09-18-2019 11:14 AM
modm Another update on Mila

Today we took her to the vet to get her nails trimmed. Wanted to have a professional work with her first. Even with all the good information, I was a bit nervous to do it myself.

We have been squeezing and tapping on her nails last 2 weeks or so. Brought out the Dremel and left on floor, then moved up to having it on while she was in the room - and of course yummy treats while doing so

The nail trimmer person, also owns a dober so was very familiar with them. She sat on the floor with Mila first and talked and petted her and looked her over a bit.

Then she took her out to the other room to get her nails done. I could hear the Dremel at times and "good girl".

Procedure used to trim Mila's nails (as described since wasn't in the room).
1. She had Mila laying in her lap.
2. Used nail clippers to just nip off the tips - staying away from the quick.
3. Ran the Dremel on the nails briefly to get her used to it without a lot of discomfort.
4. Secret weapon! She covered Mila's head with a towel while in her lap....guess like a bird.

She said after a few times and Mila becomes more comfortable then we could try at home.

Mila seemed good so we were happy!
09-10-2019 03:58 AM
modm
Quote:
Originally Posted by modm View Post
For a few weeks now, a strange reaction from Mila. I thought she would grow out of but hasn't.

When I come home from work in my uniform, she seems almost afraid....not quite but her tail tucks a bit. But once I change out all is good again. Tail happy ready for hugs, petting and some spins. I still have the T-shirt on and I haven't showered so the "work smell" should still be on.

Is it the uniform or the length of time I have been gone? Thinking of this weekend just putting on a uniform for the day....would that help or at least narrow down what she is unhappy about?
I meant to update on this - It does appear she is anxious of my uniform mostly. For a week or so now, I take off my shirt prior to coming into the house. That seems to have done the trick. She doesn't appear afraid or anxious....happy to see me. Early on I had shown her the shirt in my hand and she backed a way a bit. Strange. But 2 days ago she was up in the morning when I left to work and didn't seem to be as much of an issue. Maybe combination of time and shirt....

Anyways I will keep an eye on this and see if I observe anything else.
09-08-2019 10:04 AM
modm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
I know I'm a bit late popping into this thread, but I think Mel is onto something - I'd really want to start working with her on the idea that touching her collar/pressure on her collar isn't a bad thing. Have you tried any clicker training with her? It might be very different/new to her and so it might not have any prior negative associations. If it were me, I would give it a shot - even if you didn't want to use a clicker, even something like "touch her collar, "Yes!" (in a happy, excited voice) and then treat, and working up to a little pressure, with the same "Yes!" You'd work from just a touch, to a little pressure, to slowly more, sustained pressure.

Personally, I probably wouldn't use collar pressure as a way to teach loose leash walking with her, because she has such a negative response to it....you might get better results by simply using a LOT of rewards with her for being near you. I've often found that using canned food in a food tube so the dog can get fast, easily delivered rewards work really well - you can buy food tubes online at places like Amazon, or at camping stores like REI. For a dog that needs a really high rate of reinforcement it works well, plus a lot of dogs like a REALLY high value reward, and canned food can really fit the bill there.

Just throwing it out there as an alternate idea.

You might find with some of the other training that mixing up your rewards helps, too. Kind of a "trail mix" bag can keep dogs interested and working harder - some cooked chicken, steak, braunsweiger....when dogs don't seem motivated I try to really increase the value of rewards, go through a lot of different things to see what really gets them interested and wanting to work with me, and then I also try to have a mix, so they never know what they'll get. I find it makes them work harder, because they don't know if this time it's the piece of steak, or the piece of cheese, or the cheerio, or....

Just some different training thoughts that might help. Throwing them out in case they do.

Thanks MeadowCat - good ideas!

I will have to bump up the treats. Although she is a delicate eater. That is to say my wife gave her a couple of raw tenderloin scraps from last nights supper prep. Mila was easy to take the meat. I was thinking if that was Molly - might have lost a finger or two But she does respond better with the higher value such as cheese.

This morning, I sat on a chair and kept putting my hand on the collar and moved it up her neck as I let her nibble on the hard cookie type treats. Seemed ok. Repeated this quite a few times.

But when I stood up and had her on my left side she was sitting and with my hand on her collar up high...I could sense she was not very happy. So I dropped it and had the treat low and took a step. She did not move....I took a few more steps and she finally came and got the treat.

Quote:
Personally, I probably wouldn't use collar pressure as a way to teach loose leash walking with her,
The trainer actually had us start all the training with no leash. Only time we put it on her was when she became stressed. Once leash was attached she actually would calm down a bit. Then when we discussed issue with leash walking - as we will have to have on a leash if we are in public places - is when we tried to understand the issue in our last session.

So I will look into the tube and better treats to keep her happy and interested to be near us. As she progresses from the back yard(fenced) then the front yard(non-fenced and new sights), and neighborhood walks....will try more public areas again.

I like the "trail mix" idea....time to do some cooking. We did save the rest of the meat scraps as well so I can start with those


Thanks again!
09-08-2019 09:37 AM
MeadowCat I know I'm a bit late popping into this thread, but I think Mel is onto something - I'd really want to start working with her on the idea that touching her collar/pressure on her collar isn't a bad thing. Have you tried any clicker training with her? It might be very different/new to her and so it might not have any prior negative associations. If it were me, I would give it a shot - even if you didn't want to use a clicker, even something like "touch her collar, "Yes!" (in a happy, excited voice) and then treat, and working up to a little pressure, with the same "Yes!" You'd work from just a touch, to a little pressure, to slowly more, sustained pressure.

Personally, I probably wouldn't use collar pressure as a way to teach loose leash walking with her, because she has such a negative response to it....you might get better results by simply using a LOT of rewards with her for being near you. I've often found that using canned food in a food tube so the dog can get fast, easily delivered rewards work really well - you can buy food tubes online at places like Amazon, or at camping stores like REI. For a dog that needs a really high rate of reinforcement it works well, plus a lot of dogs like a REALLY high value reward, and canned food can really fit the bill there.

Just throwing it out there as an alternate idea.

You might find with some of the other training that mixing up your rewards helps, too. Kind of a "trail mix" bag can keep dogs interested and working harder - some cooked chicken, steak, braunsweiger....when dogs don't seem motivated I try to really increase the value of rewards, go through a lot of different things to see what really gets them interested and wanting to work with me, and then I also try to have a mix, so they never know what they'll get. I find it makes them work harder, because they don't know if this time it's the piece of steak, or the piece of cheese, or the cheerio, or....

Just some different training thoughts that might help. Throwing them out in case they do.
09-08-2019 05:00 AM
modm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
Will she follow you without you pulling on the leash? In terms of getting her to move on the leash when she shuts down and won't move, you may be able to just start off, don't look at her, don't pull on the leash--just invite her along, start walking away and see if she will come with you/behind you. Hold the cheese in your hand at your side, sorta behind you (where she is), let her see it but don't make a big deal of coaxing her--let her sneak up and nibble if she will. Or you can try sorta moving/bouncing backwards in front of her with a "come on" invitation like you would to ask her to play to get her started up again.

If you can figure out a way to get her to move without you having to pull, then it'll be easier to begin the leash guiding thing.

I've had to do the showing that a grab for the collar and pull is not a bad thing with HDD--he's a little head and leash shy, and snatches at your hand whenever it goes past his head/ears to snap the leash on. We've done pretty much what you describe. The trainer told me to hold the bait in front of his nose and let him nibble at the same time as I'm holding the collar and putting some pressure on it, tugging on it (not trying to get him to move, just enough that he can feel it tightening and loosening a bit), reaching for his collar, petting the top of his head, sides of his nose, etc. He doesn't get the whole treat at a time, he just gets to nibble on it while I'm handling him. The treat goes directly with the pressure--to him, a pull on the collar isn't so bad if he gets to nibble on something yummy at the same time. His focus goes to the treat, and whatever else is happening around his collar and head isn't quite so important.

Or I might be reading everything you wrote wrong. And your trainer is right there with her eyeballs glued on you--it sounds like you're on the right track.
Will she follow you without you pulling on the leash?
I believe she will follow with out tugging on the leash - But when we started I only had my hand on the collar and tried to walk with her with some slight pressure. If I had a leash, she probably would have moved with me.

Hold the cheese in your hand at your side, sorta behind you (where she is), let her see it but don't make a big deal of coaxing her--let her sneak up and nibble if she will. Or you can try sorta moving/bouncing backwards in front of her with a "come on" invitation like you would to ask her to play to get her started up again.

Those sound like good ideas - Trainer did have me put the treat down by my leg....but since I was holding her with my hand - no room to let slack/pressure off her much, only the length of my arm. But will try with a long leash.

If you can figure out a way to get her to move without you having to pull, then it'll be easier to begin the leash guiding thing.
I agree!

The treat goes directly with the pressure--to him, a pull on the collar isn't so bad if he gets to nibble on something yummy at the same time. His focus goes to the treat, and whatever else is happening around his collar and head isn't quite so important.

So far for the most part I have been giving her the treat directly - Will try the nibbling a bit more so her attention stays there longer vs. why do I have my hand on her collar. Plus once I give it to her I take my hand off then repeat. I can hold my hand there a bit longer with this technique as well.

Or I might be reading everything you wrote wrong. No I think you got it....I may have left a few details out as I was getting long winded. What you mentioned the trainer conveyed some as well. Plus you added a couple of ideas to try.

Thank you for some good ideas to try!
09-07-2019 04:18 PM
melbrod Will she follow you without you pulling on the leash? In terms of getting her to move on the leash when she shuts down and won't move, you may be able to just start off, don't look at her, don't pull on the leash--just invite her along, start walking away and see if she will come with you/behind you. Hold the cheese in your hand at your side, sorta behind you (where she is), let her see it but don't make a big deal of coaxing her--let her sneak up and nibble if she will. Or you can try sorta moving/bouncing backwards in front of her with a "come on" invitation like you would to ask her to play to get her started up again.

If you can figure out a way to get her to move without you having to pull, then it'll be easier to begin the leash guiding thing.

I've had to do the showing that a grab for the collar and pull is not a bad thing with HDD--he's a little head and leash shy, and snatches at your hand whenever it goes past his head/ears to snap the leash on. We've done pretty much what you describe. The trainer told me to hold the bait in front of his nose and let him nibble at the same time as I'm holding the collar and putting some pressure on it, tugging on it (not trying to get him to move, just enough that he can feel it tightening and loosening a bit), reaching for his collar, petting the top of his head, sides of his nose, etc. He doesn't get the whole treat at a time, he just gets to nibble on it while I'm handling him. The treat goes directly with the pressure--to him, a pull on the collar isn't so bad if he gets to nibble on something yummy at the same time. His focus goes to the treat, and whatever else is happening around his collar and head isn't quite so important.

Or I might be reading everything you wrote wrong. And your trainer is right there with her eyeballs glued on you--it sounds like you're on the right track.
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