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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-19-2019 03:43 PM
MeadowCat I would do the same as Melissa...we simply ignore incorrect responses, heavily reward correct responses. He needs more "mileage" in his training at this point, in my opinion, to understand what gets rewarded and what doesn't.
11-19-2019 03:03 PM
Rosemary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meldrew79 View Post
I have to disagree a bit with this advice. First, if you do pick up a non-odor box make sure your hands are completely free of odor. You don't want any contamination, especially since he's so young in his scent work career.
Second, he is a box crusher. I wouldn't do anything that makes a non-odor box more interesting. If he hits on the wrong box I would completely ignore it and keep moving. This is above his pay grade right now, but that's how we overcome distractors. We do not give the distractor box any attention. Even if they alert on it, we keep moving and pay BIG when they do hit that odor box.
I definitely agree with not doing any blind searches for awhile. Set him up for success and work on those foundations!
Just going off of what a very experienced competitor and instructor has said and shown in class, and that lots of people have said helped their dogs. I've done it myself a few times. Acknowledges that you are paying attention, but aren't going to reward it.
11-19-2019 02:17 PM
Meldrew79
Quote:
If he hits on the wrong container, and insists that it's the one, just go to it, pick it up and admire it ("What a nice box! A super awesome box!"), set it back down and re-cue him to search. That acknowledges that yes, you are paying attention to what he's doing, but no, you won't pay for no odor.
I have to disagree a bit with this advice. First, if you do pick up a non-odor box make sure your hands are completely free of odor. You don't want any contamination, especially since he's so young in his scent work career.
Second, he is a box crusher. I wouldn't do anything that makes a non-odor box more interesting. If he hits on the wrong box I would completely ignore it and keep moving. This is above his pay grade right now, but that's how we overcome distractors. We do not give the distractor box any attention. Even if they alert on it, we keep moving and pay BIG when they do hit that odor box.
I definitely agree with not doing any blind searches for awhile. Set him up for success and work on those foundations!
11-19-2019 11:17 AM
LadyDi Thanks for the tips.....
Yeah with one hide......he duplicated what he did the day before .........so I will follow your instructions.
I so much wanted to remind that judge that we are in "Novice A" ......duh!!!!
But opted to not make any fuss...didn't want to piss off a judge that I might see again someday !!! LOL
We had fun!
I was happy he qualified the day before !!!
And ......Hoss is still sleeping off all of this activity.
Nosework was great way to exhaust a Doberman.....so much activity for two days.....he is still sleepy.
Everyone loved his meadowcat coat.............that certainly keeps him warm.
11-19-2019 10:04 AM
Rosemary I wonder if there had been a hot box in that spot previously? AKC uses a TON of odor, as in two drops of oil per swab, so residual odor can sometimes be a problem when search areas are reused.

When you go back to training, do not do blind searches. Set your own hides so that you know for sure which one is hot (if you think any of your cold containers have been contaminated, toss them out and get new ones). If he hits on the wrong container, and insists that it's the one, just go to it, pick it up and admire it ("What a nice box! A super awesome box!"), set it back down and re-cue him to search. That acknowledges that yes, you are paying attention to what he's doing, but no, you won't pay for no odor.

And with only one hide in Novice, why would the dog need to search all the containers? All they have to do is hit on the correct one. Some dogs like to catalog and then alert, while others will beeline for the correct container without so much as glancing at the cold one.
11-19-2019 09:02 AM
MeadowCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyDi View Post
OK...on Sunday we did not qualify but I still had a great time and learned some lessons.

Same thing 10 boxes 1 scent to find (birch).
As we crossed the line the timer began.
Hoss was using his nose...he sniffed the first box, then second, then third. and on the forth box he poked his nose on the box, sat down, and looked up at me.
So I called alert.
Judge shook her head No!!
The Judge pointed to the scented box....and said to me .....in a smart azz tone...."He didn't even sniff all the boxes"!!! Female judge was a real smarty pants!
I suspose she was trying to teach me something in her own special way.
So as I thought about it........he seemed so sure.........but I think he has figured out poke the box, and sit, and get treat!
So I plan to play some of the games previously posted now that the trials are over.
Thinkin if I had it to do all over again......I would take my 2 minutes and let him investigate each box.
Then the box he seems most excited about I would return to that box and look for the same reaction......
But I was still pleased that we qualified on Saturday and was able to experience being involved with such a large event.
February 2020 we have someone called "Connie Cleveland" coming to train with dogs at our center.
Meanwhile need to get my own scent kit versus q-tips from my instructor.
Which kit do you folks recommend.
I buy my gear from someone local that makes wonderful kits - https://www.thek9nose.com/
11-19-2019 08:30 AM
ECIN So as I thought about it........he seemed so sure.........but I think he has figured out poke the box, and sit, and get treat!

LOL Di - I think you figured that out right - they are so darn smart !

The bad thing about Dobermans --- They are so hard to stay a step ahead of !
11-19-2019 08:22 AM
LadyDi OK...on Sunday we did not qualify but I still had a great time and learned some lessons.

Same thing 10 boxes 1 scent to find (birch).
As we crossed the line the timer began.
Hoss was using his nose...he sniffed the first box, then second, then third. and on the forth box he poked his nose on the box, sat down, and looked up at me.
So I called alert.
Judge shook her head No!!
The Judge pointed to the scented box....and said to me .....in a smart azz tone...."He didn't even sniff all the boxes"!!! Female judge was a real smarty pants!
I suspose she was trying to teach me something in her own special way.
So as I thought about it........he seemed so sure.........but I think he has figured out poke the box, and sit, and get treat!
So I plan to play some of the games previously posted now that the trials are over.
Thinkin if I had it to do all over again......I would take my 2 minutes and let him investigate each box.
Then the box he seems most excited about I would return to that box and look for the same reaction......
But I was still pleased that we qualified on Saturday and was able to experience being involved with such a large event.
February 2020 we have someone called "Connie Cleveland" coming to train with dogs at our center.
Meanwhile need to get my own scent kit versus q-tips from my instructor.
Which kit do you folks recommend.
11-17-2019 12:32 PM
ECIN PICTURES --- PICTURES - PICTURES ! Lady Di !

And one of Hoss's new coat made by you know who !
11-17-2019 12:06 PM
MeadowCat Glad you had a great day!
11-17-2019 12:01 PM
LadyDi Oh......as I prepare to go to todays Trial ......Hoss will try again today.....
Its cold in Florida today...so plan to sport Hoss’s new Meadowcat Coat.........will take some of her business cards with me.
We had 350 entries yesterdays
And another 350 today......so will do some advertising for our MC!!
Thanks MC......really nice coat.....fits his good! Great pattern! He loves it!
People from all over the world.......one group from France trying to learn the mechanics of conducting these events.
11-17-2019 11:56 AM
LadyDi Oh...forgot this tip!

Once Hoss got home.....he ate......and within minutes he was asleep for the night.....
Normally wakes up at 5AM.....he slept in till 6:30 am....

Today it is cold in florida so as I prepare to go to todays trial I plan to have Hoss sport his new Meadowcat Coat!

Its beautiful! ....Will take some of her business cards with me !
11-17-2019 11:49 AM
LadyDi Novice is not hard at all.
It seems everyone welcomes the beginners.
Check in time was 8:30 AM....the briefing at 9am with all entries.
Then we expected to have our Novice A inside containers at 10-11....but the judge that was scheduled with us was still judging with a different group.
So then was told would go after lunches...1 PM......nope told advanced container would go first .......
Ended up Hoss and I took a nap......we leaned up against the wall with my ballcap over my eyes.......just snoozing.......
We ended up going at 4PMish.........by then both of us had rested........my instructor was there before I went through the curtain to do our thing and she whispered to me ....remember you have 2 minutes to locate the scent......wait till your sure......and do not forget to call “alert”.......so I just walked through...did not even stop at the line be fore we started......just walked and went ....(timer starts when one of os cross the start line) . ....there were 10 boxes in a U shape.......he sniffed each one .........it was a small area .....so I just stood in the middle and let him walk clockwise to the inside of the box confirguration.......then holy moly.....one box ...he did something different .......he tapped it with his paw while looking at me.....I waited........then he seemed peeved....he stuck his nose into the closed up box..........and then he did something WONDERFUL......he Sat down! Boom.....I called ALERT.........judge shook her head yes!
So we were given a green ribbon......and a judge sheet.........we got a bad mark for the way hoss slapped the boxes......which I expected at this level .......so my goal was to find the scent .....and willing to use 2 minutes if necessary.
Hoss found it ........for some reason I find when I put my arms away .....behind my back....in pockets......etc...it stops me from pointing..........when I point Hoss thinks I am telling him where it is......so I had to break that habit.
Allowing Hoss to do all the work!
Yesterday I did no pointing.....just stood there (again the area was real small so little walking for me to do.....I think when Hoss stuck his nose in the box he was pissed at his human for not getting with the program.
So he got a little snarky.......like...fine...how about ...nose in the box and sit...now do you get it stupid human!
11-17-2019 10:33 AM
MeadowCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyDi View Post
Good news we qualified is yesterdays novice A trial.....we are signed up for another one today.
Sure is a lot of waiting around in nosework!!!
That's great!

Yes, learning how to wait is a super important Nosework skill At our NW3 trials we sometimes sit and wait for hours and hours between searches
11-17-2019 10:22 AM
ECIN Great news from Team Hoss ! Congrats !

So Di - Thoughts ? Was it harder - easier - What - fill us in girlfriend

Give Hoss a big ole hug for me
11-17-2019 10:20 AM
LadyDi Good news we qualified is yesterdays novice A trial.....we are signed up for another one today.
Sure is a lot of waiting around in nosework!!!
11-14-2019 04:20 PM
LadyDi Oh these are all great tips..........
11-14-2019 03:56 PM
ECIN I use the phrases "ready to work?" or "let's go do some work" as part of my pre-search routine, so he knows he's not getting them until he does his job!

I wish you could teach that to some of the people around here

Sorry - couldn't help myself
11-14-2019 03:47 PM
Meldrew79
Quote:
Is there a treat that you girls keep in your mouth.........as soon as Hoss knows his reward is in my pocket ........he becomes so distracted............string cheese?
Hot dog?
I have a friend that will keep cooked chicken in her mouth, but we always tease her that if she ever gets to elite she's going to look like a chipmunk! (In elite trials you can have a lot of hides in a single search area).
Everyone else has given some great advice. I keep treats in my pocket with a few in my hand so I can try to reward as soon as he's on source. Every once and a great while Newtie will try to get a sniff of them in my hand at the start line and I tell him you gotta work for them! I use the phrases "ready to work?" or "let's go do some work" as part of my pre-search routine, so he knows he's not getting them until he does his job!
11-14-2019 01:44 PM
MeadowCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
Having the treat in your mouth is a good way to have you dog focus on your face, which is why it's so popular when training fronts in obedience.

The "it's your choice" game that MC mentions is actually how my dogs were introduced to nosework. Odor, and only odor, pays.

When you are doing a search, keep your hands away from your pocket or treat pouch. If he tries mugging you, re-cue him to search. If he keeps it up, the search simply ends.

Once he does source the find, mark it, and then reach for your treats.

One exercise (sans dog) to help with getting the correct mark/reward sequence is to put out two bowls, one empty and one with treats. Set a timer for one minute, and then with your hands at your side, give your marker, then move one treat from the full bowl to the empty bowl, then put your hands back at your side. The goal is to get as many treats as possible into the other bowl while not moving your hands until after the mark.
As Rosemary said, we inadvertently give our dogs LOTS of cues in scentwork. We do a lot of "bad handler" exercises in class....delaying paying them for their find..., turning the other way, walking away, all kinds of stuff. You have to have a solid foundation first, but these types of things build better odor obedience and help for trialing. Our trainer sometimes has us play a game where when our dog gets the hide we can't "pay" them until we can, for example, come up with five movie titles for comedies, or something similar. It feels like forever, but with a dog that really has a strong foundation you can build really nice obedience to odor and a willingness to wait for payment.
11-14-2019 01:23 PM
Rosemary Having the treat in your mouth is a good way to have you dog focus on your face, which is why it's so popular when training fronts in obedience.

The "it's your choice" game that MC mentions is actually how my dogs were introduced to nosework. Odor, and only odor, pays.

When you are doing a search, keep your hands away from your pocket or treat pouch. If he tries mugging you, re-cue him to search. If he keeps it up, the search simply ends.

Once he does source the find, mark it, and then reach for your treats.

One exercise (sans dog) to help with getting the correct mark/reward sequence is to put out two bowls, one empty and one with treats. Set a timer for one minute, and then with your hands at your side, give your marker, then move one treat from the full bowl to the empty bowl, then put your hands back at your side. The goal is to get as many treats as possible into the other bowl while not moving your hands until after the mark.
11-14-2019 01:21 PM
LadyDi
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Sometimes we play the "it's yer choice" game with odor....one hand has a hand full of treats, one hand has the odor tin. The dog has to make the choice to keep their nose on odor in order to get the reward. It's not only a good way to build up odor obedience and staying power at odor, but it also can help work away from distractions (treats). It might be a good game for Hoss. You can then play with it on the fridge or something, just a little bit more distance. It's a nice, easy game.

Thanks ..that's a great idea. We can play that game easily.
Will start that right away ....
11-14-2019 01:18 PM
LadyDi
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenkouki View Post
I have found that asking "show me!" is a great way to get by this. Try not to reward when he gets frustrated and chews or jumps on the boxes... What is Hoss's alert?

Initially I was having him place paw on the box till he got to rough dobe smacking them.......

He still smacks them (trying to undo that) but now I am making him sit at source.
11-14-2019 12:32 PM
MeadowCat Sometimes we play the "it's yer choice" game with odor....one hand has a hand full of treats, one hand has the odor tin. The dog has to make the choice to keep their nose on odor in order to get the reward. It's not only a good way to build up odor obedience and staying power at odor, but it also can help work away from distractions (treats). It might be a good game for Hoss. You can then play with it on the fridge or something, just a little bit more distance. It's a nice, easy game.
11-14-2019 12:14 PM
greenkouki
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyDi View Post
I have a treat pouch...Hoss is so tall.......his nose is level with the ppouch and he pokes it with his nose constantly.

I have worn a pouch on my front ...and back ........poke poke poke .......even around my neck.

His nose is right there !!! poke poke poke ......ignoring the boxes..........so I wait........he gets nothing.........till he deals with the boxes.

He eventually goes to the boxes......he is such a player. LOL

We are beginners so I will just hold my ground with him! Ignore and wait for him to play the game correctly.
I have found that asking "show me!" is a great way to get by this. Try not to reward when he gets frustrated and chews or jumps on the boxes... What is Hoss's alert?
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