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05-05-2019 12:21 PM
Dandobermanowner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Control_Freak View Post
I would ask if a two wheeled cart would help in the recovery process, this way she wouldnít be putting too much pressure on either leg.

Sorry youíre going through this.
Hi. I wouldn't rule anything out if I thought it would help, thank you for the suggestion. x
05-05-2019 12:18 PM
Dandobermanowner
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4bike ped View Post
So, years ago, The Sheriff was born with a congenital CVI (not Wobblers) issue. His prognosis was extremely poor. The general consensus was to euthanize him.

Long story short: Surgery, many different treatments and long term meds... He survived and recovered. Still his physical recovery was arduous. One of the major issues was that even once he was ambulatory, he dragged his paws when walking. The damage was harsh.

So... He spent a year in "booties". Ruffwear was the brand. It really worked out well.

Today he is an old grey muzzled senior. Very healthy and as happy as can be.

Yeah... he still walks a bit weird, but he is quite agile. He kind of "prances" when he walks and holds his head very high. Kind of like a deer.

He has been on steroids his entire life and a special diet. Oh well.

His original rehab was completely dependent on his boots. They kept his feet injury free.

A small price to pay for a dog who may have been put down at a few months and now where he is today.

Explore all possibilities.

@ dan

Wishing you and yours all the best

John, McCoy and The Sheriff

Portland OR
Hi John and thank you. Wow, you both really went through it and your dedication to Sheriff is inspirational. Bet he was worth every moment of it too. Before I saw your post I was looking into hock supports but hadn't really thought about foot protectors. She used to have a pair of Ruffwear booties to protect her front paws when we were out running in the woods because she cut them so often and they are brilliant. It would make sense to get some for the back.

I've found splinted hock protectors that I'm going to ask the vet about. Thought they could give her the additional support she needs. https://zoomadog.co.uk/products/385-...vable-splints/

Thanks for the suggestion, much appreciated. x
05-04-2019 08:50 PM
4x4bike ped
Quote:
Originally Posted by triciakoontz View Post
It sounds like a cart could be very dangerous with this dog. Any owner of a large active powerful dog has to carefully evaluate their use, but it’s nice to have all ideas out on the table. I wondered if there are any custom made leather foot coverings that could be made for her and she continue with the way she is moving now. Have no idea if that’s an option, but, have certainly known special needs humans who had various physiological reasons to have protective devices for limbs that got unusual wear and tear.
So, years ago, The Sheriff was born with a congenital CVI (not Wobblers) issue. His prognosis was extremely poor. The general consensus was to euthanize him.

Long story short: Surgery, many different treatments and long term meds... He survived and recovered. Still his physical recovery was arduous. One of the major issues was that even once he was ambulatory, he dragged his paws when walking. The damage was harsh.

So... He spent a year in "booties". Ruffwear was the brand. It really worked out well.

Today he is an old grey muzzled senior. Very healthy and as happy as can be.

Yeah... he still walks a bit weird, but he is quite agile. He kind of "prances" when he walks and holds his head very high. Kind of like a deer.

He has been on steroids his entire life and a special diet. Oh well.

His original rehab was completely dependent on his boots. They kept his feet injury free.

A small price to pay for a dog who may have been put down at a few months and now where he is today.

Explore all possibilities.

@ dan

Wishing you and yours all the best

John, McCoy and The Sheriff

Portland OR
05-04-2019 06:27 PM
triciakoontz It sounds like a cart could be very dangerous with this dog. Any owner of a large active powerful dog has to carefully evaluate their use, but it’s nice to have all ideas out on the table. I wondered if there are any custom made leather foot coverings that could be made for her and she continue with the way she is moving now. Have no idea if that’s an option, but, have certainly known special needs humans who had various physiological reasons to have protective devices for limbs that got unusual wear and tear.
05-04-2019 06:52 AM
Control_Freak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandobermanowner View Post
Hi Rosemary and Dobebug and thank you. I've just posted a little bit about it and now know its the gastrocnemius which is the largest of the 3 tendons that make up the achilles. The surgeon has consulted with other specialists and they are quite adamant that, because it's both legs, surgery for Darcy is not an option. Not only would she be a terrible patient but in order for one leg to recover, the other needs to be strong enough to support it and this just isn't the case. Particularly after the first has had surgery. Flippin' nightmare

Really do appreciate all of the help. x

I would ask if a two wheeled cart would help in the recovery process, this way she wouldnít be putting too much pressure on either leg.

Sorry youíre going through this.
05-03-2019 01:33 PM
Dandobermanowner
Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
We tried Platelet Rich Plasma injection with Capri; I didn't really see that it made any difference. But the vet gave her the injection before her brace to stabilize her wrist was completed and then there was a longish delay in getting the brace finished....so basically it was money down the drain, as far as I was concerned.

I am so sorry you're having to deal with this issue...tough decisions all of the way around.
Hi Melbrod. Thank you for letting me know of your experience with the plasma injection and for your kind words. Yours and the experience and advice shared by everyone in this thread has been invaluable in helping me decide my next steps and I couldn't have found that anywhere else. Thanks everyone.

If any of you happen to come across any other information I'd love to hear about it and I'll keep you posted on how this situation develops.

Many many thanks, Dan xx
05-03-2019 01:25 PM
Dandobermanowner
Quote:
Originally Posted by triciakoontz View Post
Iím so very sorry for this nightmare youíre dealing with. Just from the standpoint of having seen a good number of dogs over the decades of owning a vet clinic who had problems involving both hind legs, those are often based in genetic faults. Those inherent genetic issues plus the fact that there is not one strong leg to support the other during healing, can bode ill for decisions about how to ďfixĒ the problem.

So, Iíd want a good evaluation about the rest of her body and how it might stand up to any treatment and a very long prolonged rehabilitation. What is the actual condition of her hips? Her spine? That requires films by an expert. Her mental state during recovery is a huge issue. Can she endure it or will it cause her great stress?

Itís very important to ask: what other genetic and temperament problems could crop up, possibly permanently, because of the recommended treatment? And, is this all just too much for this sweet girl? Iím sorry, but a caring veterinarian would be addressing that with you. What are the chances she will actually be HAPPY and PAIN FREE as a result of this?

I will step up and say that I believe that any veterinarian should advise you if this dog has a strong potential to live in pain for the rest of its life even after treatment. I, personally, donít think we talk about that elephant in the room, setting a dog up for a lifetime of chronic pain, nearly enough these days when such very serious problems arise. Humane ethics in the pet ownership world has not necessarily kept up with modern technologies. Those technologies can often be miserable failures for the patient in ways that count, specifically, quality of life.

Itís very hard. Hugs to you for all the difficult decisions. I know you love your girl and just want her to be okay.
Hi Tricia and thank you. You actually said exactly what I'd been worrying about and trying to ignore; what if there's no solution for her? You're right in that the vet really should be discussing all avenues with me and with a greater understanding of what he's dealing with. There are so many factors in making the right decision and not every treatment is right for every dog. If this had happened to my chilled out, gentle Lab it would have been fine but for Darcy (who's as mad as a box of frogs) I know it would be a disaster.

I'm asking for a referral to a more experienced surgeon because I need to know more about her options and what the consequences of these will be. I'm hopeful that if there's no magic cure there might be something that could just improve her situation and if that means she won't be able to run like a charging bull anymore but she's mobile and most importantly not in any pain, we'll take it.

It's ironic really because living with Darcy has never been easy and our lives would be very simple without her but the thought of losing her fills me with dread. Who would lovingly headbutt me in the face five or six times a day trying to lick my face when I sit down or bruise my shins spinning like a top when I get up in the morning?

It's a holiday weekend now but I'll let you know how we get on with a second opinion.

Thanks again x
05-02-2019 05:48 PM
melbrod We tried Platelet Rich Plasma injection with Capri; I didn't really see that it made any difference. But the vet gave her the injection before her brace to stabilize her wrist was completed and then there was a longish delay in getting the brace finished....so basically it was money down the drain, as far as I was concerned.

I am so sorry you're having to deal with this issue...tough decisions all of the way around.
05-02-2019 04:26 PM
triciakoontz I’m so very sorry for this nightmare you’re dealing with. Just from the standpoint of having seen a good number of dogs over the decades of owning a vet clinic who had problems involving both hind legs, those are often based in genetic faults. Those inherent genetic issues plus the fact that there is not one strong leg to support the other during healing, can bode ill for decisions about how to “fix” the problem.

So, I’d want a good evaluation about the rest of her body and how it might stand up to any treatment and a very long prolonged rehabilitation. What is the actual condition of her hips? Her spine? That requires films by an expert. Her mental state during recovery is a huge issue. Can she endure it or will it cause her great stress?

It’s very important to ask: what other genetic and temperament problems could crop up, possibly permanently, because of the recommended treatment? And, is this all just too much for this sweet girl? I’m sorry, but a caring veterinarian would be addressing that with you. What are the chances she will actually be HAPPY and PAIN FREE as a result of this?

I will step up and say that I believe that any veterinarian should advise you if this dog has a strong potential to live in pain for the rest of its life even after treatment. I, personally, don’t think we talk about that elephant in the room, setting a dog up for a lifetime of chronic pain, nearly enough these days when such very serious problems arise. Humane ethics in the pet ownership world has not necessarily kept up with modern technologies. Those technologies can often be miserable failures for the patient in ways that count, specifically, quality of life.

It’s very hard. Hugs to you for all the difficult decisions. I know you love your girl and just want her to be okay.
05-02-2019 03:49 PM
Dandobermanowner
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
Thanks Rosemary for passing that information along--it kind of sounded like it might be an Achilles tendon to me but I hadn't gotten to looking anything up yet.

So, for what it's worth, I know of two Achillies tendon issues in Dobes and both were successful surgical repairs--14 week post op restricted exercise for one (a 65 pound 4 year old bitch and a 16 week restricted exercise post op for the other (an 85 pound 3 year old male). Both were the result of injuries.

dobebug
Hi Rosemary and Dobebug and thank you. I've just posted a little bit about it and now know its the gastrocnemius which is the largest of the 3 tendons that make up the achilles. The surgeon has consulted with other specialists and they are quite adamant that, because it's both legs, surgery for Darcy is not an option. Not only would she be a terrible patient but in order for one leg to recover, the other needs to be strong enough to support it and this just isn't the case. Particularly after the first has had surgery. Flippin' nightmare

Really do appreciate all of the help. x
05-02-2019 03:37 PM
Dandobermanowner
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECIN View Post
Dan , Sorry to hear about your Dober - Anyway - there is a Local Hospital on the Eas Side Of Indianapolis IN - I know people that took there dogs there for Tendon problems - I have heard nothing but great things on this place . I am putting up there website - Might be worth a shot to e-mail them or call them and I'm sure they would give you advice .

Brookville Road Animal Hospital - Veterinarian In Indianapolis, IN USA :: Home

Best of luck

Doc
Hi, good to hear from you and thank you for the referral. You're right, it's worth emailing them for their opinion and I'll let you know if I get a response.

Thanks again x
05-02-2019 03:32 PM
Dandobermanowner
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
See of you can get your "useless" vet to tell you the name of the tendon that has stretched and partially detatched?

One of our vets recently asked a really good orthopedic surgeon about the platelet rich plasma injections for something that involved a tendon--that surgeon said that as far as he is concerned it's a pretty useless type of treatment for a tendon problem. Tendons because of their structure really don't often repair themselves with rest--the damage has to be minimal for that sort of thing to work. Significant tears or total ruptures of tendons are generally only going to be fixed by surgery.

I've been in this breed a long, long time--and having also worked in a vet clinic for the last 16 years and in an area of human medicine before that I have a pretty good knowledge of dog diseases and disorders and Doberman specific medicine--I don't think it can be very common or I'd have at least heard of it--but then I'm not a vet.

I wish you luck but as others have already said--any kind of tendon repair will involve restricted exercise. Very restricted. And it really does mean crated and on leash only for 12 to 16 weeks--but mostly tendons just don't don't heal well and you almost always end up with a surgical repair.

dobebug
Hi. Thank you, you've given me some really useful info there, particularly regarding the opinion of the ortho surgeon. I found a great piece here https://www.acvs.org/small-animal/ac...endon-injuries
that explains it pretty well - particularly for those of us those don't speak 'Vet'. It also describes it as a 'chronic degenerative condition' and that it 'may be due to repetitive injuries'. She's never had anything more than a swollen hock on one occasion so it's interesting (and disturbing) that this has been happening over time.
My vet mentioned the gastrocnemius tendon so I understand it to be a rupture of that in both legs.

Thank you so much for your help x
05-02-2019 03:30 PM
dobebug
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
I did a quick consult with Dr. Google, and it sounds like an Achilles Tendon tear? From what I was reading, it's almost always the result of an injury, so it's interesting that hers is caused by something else.
Thanks Rosemary for passing that information along--it kind of sounded like it might be an Achilles tendon to me but I hadn't gotten to looking anything up yet.

So, for what it's worth, I know of two Achillies tendon issues in Dobes and both were successful surgical repairs--14 week post op restricted exercise for one (a 65 pound 4 year old bitch and a 16 week restricted exercise post op for the other (an 85 pound 3 year old male). Both were the result of injuries.

dobebug
05-02-2019 03:29 PM
ECIN Dan , Sorry to hear about your Dober - Anyway - there is a Local Hospital on the Eas Side Of Indianapolis IN - I know people that took there dogs there for Tendon problems - I have heard nothing but great things on this place . I am putting up there website - Might be worth a shot to e-mail them or call them and I'm sure they would give you advice .

Brookville Road Animal Hospital - Veterinarian In Indianapolis, IN USA :: Home

Best of luck

Doc
05-02-2019 03:06 PM
Rosemary I did a quick consult with Dr. Google, and it sounds like an Achilles Tendon tear? From what I was reading, it's almost always the result of an injury, so it's interesting that hers is caused by something else.
05-02-2019 01:54 PM
dobebug See of you can get your "useless" vet to tell you the name of the tendon that has stretched and partially detatched?

One of our vets recently asked a really good orthopedic surgeon about the platelet rich plasma injections for something that involved a tendon--that surgeon said that as far as he is concerned it's a pretty useless type of treatment for a tendon problem. Tendons because of their structure really don't often repair themselves with rest--the damage has to be minimal for that sort of thing to work. Significant tears or total ruptures of tendons are generally only going to be fixed by surgery.

I've been in this breed a long, long time--and having also worked in a vet clinic for the last 16 years and in an area of human medicine before that I have a pretty good knowledge of dog diseases and disorders and Doberman specific medicine--I don't think it can be very common or I'd have at least heard of it--but then I'm not a vet.

I wish you luck but as others have already said--any kind of tendon repair will involve restricted exercise. Very restricted. And it really does mean crated and on leash only for 12 to 16 weeks--but mostly tendons just don't don't heal well and you almost always end up with a surgical repair.

dobebug
05-02-2019 12:13 PM
Dandobermanowner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Control_Freak View Post
I have no experience with this specific condition, but I did choose to do a platelet rich plasma injection for a torn cruciate in hopes to avoid surgery. It was followed by 12 weeks of crate rest to allow the tendon to heal, and the day he was cleared for normal activity he tore the tendon completely and went in for surgery the next day. Due to the crate rest he had significant muscle atrophy in that leg and a little in the other, which caused him to have a lengthier recovery than had he just had the surgery to start and ended up needing professional physical therapy. A year and 3 days later he tore the cruciate in the other knee, which is quite common but I was told that his chance was greatly increased bc he was lame on one leg for so long and put extra stress on his ďgoodĒ knee. I would never choose the platelet injection again for a torn cruciate and I feel guilty that he had to spend an extra 12 weeks of his lifeís in a crate.
Thank you so much for passing on this information, I really appreciate it. Must have been an awful ordeal for both of you and I'm sorry you had to go through that. The vet admits that it might not work and of course there's nothing to say she just won't do it again. Darcy's autistic and like a bull in a china shop so crating her will be a nightmare. The vet has said she'll need to be heavily sedated for the whole time. I'm hoping for an alternative solution and probably kidding myself but have to try.

Thanks for replying, you've been really helpful. x
05-02-2019 07:00 AM
LadyDi You are smart for doing your homework via internet .......just homework or course.
When I use the internet for things such as this..... I read many.... many..... articles and look for the "consistent" information.
You are right to do this IMO ......as this will allow you have have a better understanding regarding what your vet is talking about during your initial consultation.
I work for surgeons ...they do not like the internet either...but they will also not spend 1 hour in a consultation room to fully educate a person about a said condition. To many folks in the waiting room..... pressure to hurry up seems always present.
05-02-2019 01:50 AM
Dandobermanowner
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
100% agree with GK that this requires a specialist. It sounds like you are seeing one, but you may want a second opinion. If there are sports and rehabilitation veterinarians in the UK, you may want to see if you can get in to see one of those.

I would be a little cautious about using "Dr. Google"...it's really not a good substitute for a good veterinarian and a little bit of information (or, worse, misinformation) can really lead you astray. Find a good vet that you are comfortable with and trust and trust their expertise. There's SO much inaccurate information online.
Thanks Meadowcat, I'll look into the sports and rehab suggestion. I didn't mean that I'd be using Google as a substitute, just to understand the condition better and perhaps learn of others that had experienced the same thing to learn how they dealt with it. Especially since she's been super unlucky and damaged both legs at once - she never did do anything by half Also, this vet has been useless, first said he'd never met a dog like Darcy and then cooed over how great the x-rays were. Won't be using him x
05-01-2019 09:46 PM
Control_Freak I have no experience with this specific condition, but I did choose to do a platelet rich plasma injection for a torn cruciate in hopes to avoid surgery. It was followed by 12 weeks of crate rest to allow the tendon to heal, and the day he was cleared for normal activity he tore the tendon completely and went in for surgery the next day. Due to the crate rest he had significant muscle atrophy in that leg and a little in the other, which caused him to have a lengthier recovery than had he just had the surgery to start and ended up needing professional physical therapy. A year and 3 days later he tore the cruciate in the other knee, which is quite common but I was told that his chance was greatly increased bc he was lame on one leg for so long and put extra stress on his “good” knee. I would never choose the platelet injection again for a torn cruciate and I feel guilty that he had to spend an extra 12 weeks of his life’s in a crate.
05-01-2019 09:23 PM
MeadowCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenkouki View Post
Is she just seeing your standard veterinarian or an orthopedic specialist? Very sorry
100% agree with GK that this requires a specialist. It sounds like you are seeing one, but you may want a second opinion. If there are sports and rehabilitation veterinarians in the UK, you may want to see if you can get in to see one of those.

I would be a little cautious about using "Dr. Google"...it's really not a good substitute for a good veterinarian and a little bit of information (or, worse, misinformation) can really lead you astray. Find a good vet that you are comfortable with and trust and trust their expertise. There's SO much inaccurate information online.
05-01-2019 03:41 PM
Dandobermanowner
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyDi View Post
Google it this way ( I am using google chrome )

"external fixators dobermans"

Should see alot of intel including videos......
Found something straight away, thank you
05-01-2019 03:31 PM
LadyDi Google it this way ( I am using google chrome )

"external fixators dobermans"

Should see alot of intel including videos......
05-01-2019 03:15 PM
Cressrb Anytime there is a strain, or tear or even after surgery to repair a cruciate tear, for example, the instructions are complete exercise restriction for 12 wks. That means never let off lead even to go outside
to do their business. And, no rough playing inside. Rather put the dog in the crate and let him/her heal. I wouldn't leave her out in the house if you leave so she does not jump on/off furniture.
Even a partial cruciate tear, without surgery, the instructions would be the same. Bedrest and let her heal.
It will require you to be very tough.
05-01-2019 03:05 PM
Dandobermanowner Hi Greenkouki. Thanks for replying. She's seeing an orthopaedic surgeon but if I'm honest I'm not that impressed with him. I've been given a couple of recommendations but in the interim was hoping for some alternatives. x
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