Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums - Reply to Topic
Breeding and Breeders Know a good Breeder? Are you a Breeder? Please post here and let us know

Thread: Dobermans in Colorado Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-15-2018 09:33 AM
Gretchen_Red
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
That's a far cry from "AI using frozen semen always results in smaller litters". And a live cover a the wrong time can also result in a smaller litter.
No one said frozen will always produce small litters. My original reply was that it's a breeding from frozen and therefore likely to produce a smaller litter.
03-15-2018 09:31 AM
Gretchen_Red I'm going to choose to believe not only her, who yes is a nurse and has also has spent decades breeding and whelping many litters herself but also the 30 plus years of experience of the breeders that mentor me and the fertility vets that I just attended a seminar with last month.
03-14-2018 07:56 PM
Dobiewankanobi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretchen_Red View Post
I'm sure you're right and Myra Servant Harris is wrong. As she states "it takes roughly 1 million sperm to fertilize an egg." You can have all the eggs you want if the sperm can't make it there to fertile them then it's no good.


"The type of breeding may also have an impact. Generally, natural breeding appears to yield the greatest number of pups when compared to dams who are artificially inseminated with fresh, chilled or frozen semen. The reason for this is that during artificial insemination sperm is most likely to die within the time frame of collection and insemination. The best outcome is by allowing the dam to be naturally bred two days after ovulation."
It takes ONE sperm to fertilize an egg. And simply put, Ive seen low count semen produce more pups than in a live breeding. Nevertheless, I also know a breeder who did two live covers with a stud dog on prime progesterone days that resulted in ZERO pups. Same breeder bred to that same dog via frozen semen rhe next season and got 11 pups.

While I feel Myra’s books are a good resource for most new breeders, it simply pales in comparison to the number of real life experiences in Dobermans that breeders have. It’s like some of those repro vets that have HIGH levels of success in some breeds using TCI (fresh, chilled and frozen), but I can count on one hand the number of actual successes I know of with TCI in the Doberman. But thank you for the snarky reply.
03-14-2018 03:09 PM
MeadowCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretchen_Red View Post
I'm sure you're right and Myra Servant Harris is wrong. As she states "it takes roughly 1 million sperm to fertilize an egg." You can have all the eggs you want if the sperm can't make it there to fertile them then it's no good.


"The type of breeding may also have an impact. Generally, natural breeding appears to yield the greatest number of pups when compared to dams who are artificially inseminated with fresh, chilled or frozen semen. The reason for this is that during artificial insemination sperm is most likely to die within the time frame of collection and insemination. The best outcome is by allowing the dam to be naturally bred two days after ovulation."
You may choose to believe her (a registered nurse) over the experience of the reproductive specialist veterinarians that Dobiewankenobi has worked with. Personally, I don't believe that nursing necessarily has the same qualifications as a DVM that specializes in reproduction.
03-14-2018 03:07 PM
Rosemary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretchen_Red View Post
I'm sure you're right and Myra Servant Harris is wrong. As she states "it takes roughly 1 million sperm to fertilize an egg." You can have all the eggs you want if the sperm can't make it there to fertile them then it's no good.


"The type of breeding may also have an impact. Generally, natural breeding appears to yield the greatest number of pups when compared to dams who are artificially inseminated with fresh, chilled or frozen semen. The reason for this is that during artificial insemination sperm is most likely to die within the time frame of collection and insemination. The best outcome is by allowing the dam to be naturally bred two days after ovulation."
That's a far cry from "AI using frozen semen always results in smaller litters". And a live cover a the wrong time can also result in a smaller litter.
03-14-2018 02:55 PM
Gretchen_Red
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobiewankanobi View Post
No it isn't. The semen simply doesn't determine the number of puppies in a litter. The bitch does. It's a proven fact that frozen semen lives for a shorter amount of time post thaw which is typically why we do surgical implants on frozen semen. Frozen is 100% all about timing, experience of the repro vet, AND the quality of the semen/motility post thaw. If the timing is good, the semen post thaw is good, and the bitch has a lot of eggs there is simply no reason to expect a smaller litter. In my area, my repro vet is very well known for his frozen semen experience and typically there are large litters born. I know of at least 20 breedings in Dobermans with 8+ pup litters. There are far too many factors involved to be able to say that it's "fact" that a frozen litter results in less pups. If that were the case many people would forgo frozen altogether if at all possible.

My frozen semen, that resulted in Meadowcat's pup, was 94% motility post thaw. Freezing semen often has a variety of modalities and techniques. Some are simply better than others at post thaw. The semen I used was nearly 10 years old. It thawed beautifully.
I'm sure you're right and Myra Servant Harris is wrong. As she states "it takes roughly 1 million sperm to fertilize an egg." You can have all the eggs you want if the sperm can't make it there to fertile them then it's no good.


"The type of breeding may also have an impact. Generally, natural breeding appears to yield the greatest number of pups when compared to dams who are artificially inseminated with fresh, chilled or frozen semen. The reason for this is that during artificial insemination sperm is most likely to die within the time frame of collection and insemination. The best outcome is by allowing the dam to be naturally bred two days after ovulation."
03-14-2018 10:35 AM
Dobiewankanobi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretchen_Red View Post
Actually it is a proven fact that when frozen, semen slowly die off, which is why the semen is tested for count. So yes, there can be larger litters, but the chances are greater that the litters will be smaller due to lower sperm count.
No it isn't. The semen simply doesn't determine the number of puppies in a litter. The bitch does. It's a proven fact that frozen semen lives for a shorter amount of time post thaw which is typically why we do surgical implants on frozen semen. Frozen is 100% all about timing, experience of the repro vet, AND the quality of the semen/motility post thaw. If the timing is good, the semen post thaw is good, and the bitch has a lot of eggs there is simply no reason to expect a smaller litter. In my area, my repro vet is very well known for his frozen semen experience and typically there are large litters born. I know of at least 20 breedings in Dobermans with 8+ pup litters. There are far too many factors involved to be able to say that it's "fact" that a frozen litter results in less pups. If that were the case many people would forgo frozen altogether if at all possible.

My frozen semen, that resulted in Meadowcat's pup, was 94% motility post thaw. Freezing semen often has a variety of modalities and techniques. Some are simply better than others at post thaw. The semen I used was nearly 10 years old. It thawed beautifully.
03-14-2018 09:54 AM
Gretchen_Red
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
I wouldn't make any assumptions about litter size because it's a frozen litter. Sypha's "pupsicle" litter was 8 puppies.

OP, if you are willing to be patient and travel far, you could contact Jesaran Dobermans (Kathy Davieds) in Virginia. There are some other quality breeders that have left pups uncropped, too. I know Gatehouse (Maura Reilly) has up in Canada. If it's a deal breaker for you, you'll have to do very careful research and be very patient and be willing to really expand your search. I know there's been other discussions here on DobermanTalk about natural eared pups. You may have some success using Google to search threads by just adding "Doberman Talk" to your search...i.e. "natural ears Doberman Talk" or something similar.

Some other folks may pop in with suggestions, too.

If ears are not an absolute deal breaker there are a lot of other breeders people can suggest for you.
Actually it is a proven fact that when frozen, semen slowly die off, which is why the semen is tested for count. So yes, there can be larger litters, but the chances are greater that the litters will be smaller due to lower sperm count.
03-14-2018 01:06 AM
sandy2233 On the Doberman Pinchers Rocky Mountain Area facebook page, they had a natural eared female Doberman up for adoption that had been rescued by Cynthia Huckfeldt of Torrington Wyoming. This has been within the last week or so.
03-13-2018 12:59 PM
MeadowCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretchen_Red View Post
Yeah, I'm not much help. I know Renejade would likely sell an uncropped puppy since she was the first to CH a natural eared dog but her breeding won't be until June and it's to frozen semen so it's likely to be a smaller litter. YOu can find her on FB, Nancy Christensen. Also if you're on FB you can join our group DPCRMA if you like
I wouldn't make any assumptions about litter size because it's a frozen litter. Sypha's "pupsicle" litter was 8 puppies.

OP, if you are willing to be patient and travel far, you could contact Jesaran Dobermans (Kathy Davieds) in Virginia. There are some other quality breeders that have left pups uncropped, too. I know Gatehouse (Maura Reilly) has up in Canada. If it's a deal breaker for you, you'll have to do very careful research and be very patient and be willing to really expand your search. I know there's been other discussions here on DobermanTalk about natural eared pups. You may have some success using Google to search threads by just adding "Doberman Talk" to your search...i.e. "natural ears Doberman Talk" or something similar.

Some other folks may pop in with suggestions, too.

If ears are not an absolute deal breaker there are a lot of other breeders people can suggest for you.
03-13-2018 11:25 AM
Gretchen_Red Yeah, I'm not much help. I know Renejade would likely sell an uncropped puppy since she was the first to CH a natural eared dog but her breeding won't be until June and it's to frozen semen so it's likely to be a smaller litter. YOu can find her on FB, Nancy Christensen. Also if you're on FB you can join our group DPCRMA if you like
03-12-2018 04:46 PM
TallStef
Quote:
Originally Posted by river11 View Post
Gretchen_Red,
I think we have emailed since your last post here (thanks again!), but yes, we would love to have a natural-eared puppy. We want a puppy that is healthy and a good temperament foremost, but the natural ears would be a great bonus. We understand that most reputable breeders are not usually willing to do this, but we are going to search a little more outside of our region to see if this is something we can find.
You can stay in the Rockies and go just a tad bit north to B.C. Dobe breeders can't dock or crop there. Braebrook Kennels might have a referral for you - she recently quit breeding Dobes, but is VERY reputable and might know some others in the area. Contact Braebrook on facebook!
03-05-2018 07:20 PM
river11 Gretchen_Red,
I think we have emailed since your last post here (thanks again!), but yes, we would love to have a natural-eared puppy. We want a puppy that is healthy and a good temperament foremost, but the natural ears would be a great bonus. We understand that most reputable breeders are not usually willing to do this, but we are going to search a little more outside of our region to see if this is something we can find.
02-15-2018 11:26 AM
Gretchen_Red Hi River,

I talked to Cindi yesterday. Were you wanting a natural eared Doberman?
02-06-2018 07:37 PM
doberad Please feel free to contact me ( PM me your email address) about any litters planned by Gallant/Ciden dobermans this year. I can get you in contact with Cyndi as well.
02-06-2018 04:42 PM
TallStef Gallant is great, but not very responsive via email. You can usually run into Cyndi at shows - or at least you used to be able to. Not 100% sure if they're still breeding, though, so it might be best to move on to some other referrals.
02-05-2018 01:31 PM
Gretchen_Red Hi and welcome to DT. I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your dog.

I'm not sure why they wouldn't answer your emails, seems strange but it could be because they aren't planning a breeding anytime soon? Or because they have a super long waiting list? I know Mona's been out of the country for several years so they haven't been breeding and perhaps they are still behind on emails? PM me your email address and I can try to reach out to them.

I do know that Imperia is planning a breeding in the spring (lovely bitch loves to work I think they're planning on a breeding to Nancy's Clifford but I'm not sure if that one's still on the books), so is Renejade Dobermans who isn't listed as a breeder referral but is a long time judge and in good standing with the DPCA(this would be my dog's littermate bred to an outstanding SA male). Wisdom is also planning a litter, I believe, as well (nice bitch lots of bone, I'm not sure she knows who she'll be breeding her too). They aren't in the DPCA but are long time Doberman enthusiasts who show and compete with their dogs.

If you're on FB you can also join our FB group Doberman Pinscher club of the Rocky Mountain Area.

Best of luck in your search
02-05-2018 10:00 AM
river11
Dobermans in Colorado

We are looking to get another Doberman as a companion. We live in Colorado Springs. Our dog just passed from cancer in December and we are not in a hurry, but would like to establish a relationship with the breeder. We have read several good things about the Gallant Dobermans and have emailed a couple times using the official email address we found on DPCA, but have not received any response. We realize they may just be busy, but also worry that it may not be the correct contact method. Does anyone know another email address or phone # for Gallant? Or do you have any other suggestions for a responsible, established breeder in Colorado?

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome