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04-30-2016 12:37 AM
Melsie Hi,
I'm not a vet but I have worked in the medical field for many years. This really sounds like it's neurological, based on his symptoms and behaviors. Cardiac issues wouldn't cause this kind of neurological symptoms. You may want to buy a thermometer specifically for him and take his temperature at different times of the day to make sure it's within normal range,and keep a record of them.
Also, is he on a natural food diet? Some uncooked meats can cause illnesses or parasites that cause neurological symptoms, as well as vegetables that may have been treated with pesticides, if not thoroughly washed.
Good luck, and I hope your Burnaby is ok.
04-29-2016 08:36 PM
Sam1491 So many possibilites, bad gas episode, minor short lived pulled muscle, seizure..... hoping you get some answers soon and that all is well moving forward with Dreizhen.

Side note: did you feel his abdomen at all at the time to see if it was hard or not? (ruling out stomach trouble) Mabel did a similar thing, random attitude change, shaking, restless, and her stomach was hard. A bit of gasx and flatuence later and turns out it was just some bad painful gas.

Mabel is no stranger to one time random things like that that thankfully turn out to be nothing. Fingers crossed your boy is the same.
04-29-2016 05:28 PM
Dobie1 So sorry to hear this...not having definitive answers is so stressful.

I can only share my experience when my dog had seizures, and her signs seem different. Of course, this does not eliminate the possibility. Anyway, when my girl would have a seizure, she would become disoriented and stare like you described. She would also drool/foam. But, the symptoms or effects would not last long, and she did not become restless.

I hope you find answers. Keep us posted.
04-29-2016 04:37 PM
vivienne00 Sounds like a focal seizure or a psycho-motor seizure. Yoda's 1st seizure was focal but that was quickly followed by a cluster of grand mal seizures.
04-29-2016 01:14 PM
lauren91 After readying your post, your dogs behaviour sounds exactly like my female dobes did (especially the not being able to get comfy and the not being reactive to anything) the night we nearly lost her one night to a Ventricular Tachycardia episode, she was later diagnosed with having DCM. I will keep you in my thoughts, and I very much hope this is not the outcome you have .
04-28-2016 06:15 PM
melbrod We’re looking at that with Kip--though his symptoms haven’t been nearly as extreme as what you described with Dreizehn. But Kip does have irregular heartbeats (though his cardiologist says it doesn’t look exactly like “classic” DCM?) and he’ll just stand there looking sorta uncomfortable and blank--and when I check, his gums are pale.

Just did a echocardiogram on him yesterday, and he has irregularities in both ventricles, as well as a slightly...uh...inflexible septum. But the blood flow through his heart looks good and there is no worsening since he was tested back last July and put on pimobendan (vetmedin)--cardiologist says that is practically a miracle drug where hearts are concerned.

Added Sotalol to his meds (which you can get at a human pharmacy and isn’t too expensive.) Kip is in the Walgreen’s Prescription Savings Club--it is well worth the $20 or $25 yearly fee--you get good discounts on drugs they carry, and they will refund (store credit) the difference between how much you have spent and the cost of the fee at the end of the year if you haven’t needed to use the card.

We’re going to do a Holter in a month to see whether the problem appears to be controlled.

Was just reading over an article on irregular heartbeats (my research topic for the day ) and found the following list of symptoms:
• Fast breathing when resting or sleeping (> 30-35 breaths per minute)
• Increased effort associated with breathing
• Restless sleeping, moving around a lot and changing positions
• Coughing or gagging
• Weakness
• Reduced ability to exercise
• Collapse or fainting
• Decreased appetite
• Weight loss
• Distended belly
• Depressed attitude or quiet and not interactive
04-28-2016 03:49 PM
4x4bike ped
Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
When Kip “almost” bloats, he invariably does a sort of gulping that the vet says means he is feeling nauseated, standing around and looking uncomfortable, yes, but sometimes also madly rushing around in the yard trying to find grass or other greens to eat. I can’t draw conclusions from my one dog’s reactions, I suppose, but it doesn’t really sound like what I see in Kip when he is having problems with gas.

Seems like mild seizure might be a good guess.

I’ve also heard an episode of irregular heartbeats can cause weakness and lack of energy in a dog, as well as rapid breathing and a kind of vague look or even fainting. Did you happen to notice whether his gums were pale or even white when he was showing symptoms? That can indicate heart problems (or shock or a bunch of other things--I have no idea what they would look like after a seizure.) I’d ask your vet about that possibility, especially given dobes’ tendency to heart problems--they can snap in and out of episodes of irregular heartbeats so he could have been acting normally at the vets yet still have a problem.
@ Mel... Yes. Absolutely.

@ Patchwork

Your dog's "episode" pretty much mirrors our boy Butcher (RIP) when he would have a Ventricular Tachycardia issue.(due to DCM).

Personally, I would do an echo and a 24 hour holter on Dreizehn. I know it is expensive. But, what price for piece of mind.

John
Portland OR
04-28-2016 01:57 PM
PatchworkRobot The more I read up on seizures the more realistic that conclusion sounds. I did not notice his gums at the time, I didn't even think to look. At the vets they were perfectly pink (of course, lol). He is due for a holter - I really should get that done. A better owner would have done so sooner but with my schedule... well, excuses.
04-28-2016 01:53 PM
melbrod When Kip “almost” bloats, he invariably does a sort of gulping that the vet says means he is feeling nauseated, standing around and looking uncomfortable, yes, but sometimes also madly rushing around in the yard trying to find grass or other greens to eat. I can’t draw conclusions from my one dog’s reactions, I suppose, but it doesn’t really sound like what I see in Kip when he is having problems with gas.

Seems like mild seizure might be a good guess.

I’ve also heard an episode of irregular heartbeats can cause weakness and lack of energy in a dog, as well as rapid breathing and a kind of vague look or even fainting. Did you happen to notice whether his gums were pale or even white when he was showing symptoms? That can indicate heart problems (or shock or a bunch of other things--I have no idea what they would look like after a seizure.) I’d ask your vet about that possibility, especially given dobes’ tendency to heart problems--they can snap in and out of episodes of irregular heartbeats so he could have been acting normally at the vets yet still have a problem.
04-28-2016 01:52 PM
PatchworkRobot
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenkouki View Post
He could have just gotten up from laying down and pulled a muscle or rotated his shoulder in a funky way causing that reaction. I wouldn't be overly worried since it was such a short episode, but definitely keep watching for patterns or additional odd behavior.
Maybe so. We are definitely keeping a good eye on him now!


Quote:
Originally Posted by havenminx View Post
This is how Apollo acted when we thought he was bloating. We rushed as fast as we could to the vet but we live on an island so this involved a midnight lobster boat ride, and it took well over an hour. When we got there, Apollo was fine, and needed no surgery or anything. Final ruling was bloat but no torsion, or maybe gas. IIRC (this was a long time ago) my vet said dogs can "almost bloat." I wonder if this is what happened to Dreizehn? The staring, holding head low, lack of excitement breathing heavy, roaching, and refusing to lay down... it all was EXACTLY what we were seeing. We were less experienced owners back then; now I know bloat has many other, more concrete symptoms.

Regardless, it never happened again, and Apollo never did bloat. He died of osteosarcoma many years later. I hope D is OK.
I appreciate this knowledge - what a freak incident! Having to wait it out on a boat ride must have been very stressful, too (though it makes for an interesting story). Thank you, the two incidences do sound very similar.
04-28-2016 11:45 AM
havenminx This is how Apollo acted when we thought he was bloating. We rushed as fast as we could to the vet but we live on an island so this involved a midnight lobster boat ride, and it took well over an hour. When we got there, Apollo was fine, and needed no surgery or anything. Final ruling was bloat but no torsion, or maybe gas. IIRC (this was a long time ago) my vet said dogs can "almost bloat." I wonder if this is what happened to Dreizehn? The staring, holding head low, lack of excitement breathing heavy, roaching, and refusing to lay down... it all was EXACTLY what we were seeing. We were less experienced owners back then; now I know bloat has many other, more concrete symptoms.

Regardless, it never happened again, and Apollo never did bloat. He died of osteosarcoma many years later. I hope D is OK.
04-28-2016 11:14 AM
Darkevs My first thought was a neck problem.

But then I have never dealt with any seizure issues.

Hopefully it was just one of thoses unexplained events and there will be no further issues.
04-28-2016 11:10 AM
greenkouki He could have just gotten up from laying down and pulled a muscle or rotated his shoulder in a funky way causing that reaction. I wouldn't be overly worried since it was such a short episode, but definitely keep watching for patterns or additional odd behavior.
04-28-2016 10:38 AM
PatchworkRobot Thanks for the quick responses!

He did not appear to be favoring any side or leg or, well, anything. He got no pain meds but he didn't appear to be in pain at all. I watched as the vet poked and prodded and squeezed at him with no issue. Dreizehn stood normally for the inspection with no reaction and his affect was no longer flat at that point. Also no xray as nobody felt a need. Dreizehn doesn't really get into things too much. The only thing he eats that could cause him trouble are the pods from the buckeye tree out back. I know that the leaves are poisonous too but I've never once seen him touch those and all of the pods were removed from the tree and the ground weeks ago.

This morning he seemed just fine. He was fine when he got home last night too - as if it was only a momentary thing... maybe it was?
04-28-2016 10:21 AM
Meldrew79 I was thinking something spinal as well, but I have not had any experience like this.

I hope he's feeling better today!
04-28-2016 10:20 AM
Gretchen_Red I can't help either but please keep us updated. The first thing I thought was bloat but that's obviously not the case.

I've heard maple syrup is good for bringing a dog out of a seizure? but haven't personally experience it.
04-28-2016 10:18 AM
greenkouki With him keeping his neck down and not wanting to move I would be worried about a spinal injury. Was he favoring one side or keeping weight off anywhere? Did they give him any pain meds? And what is he doing today?
04-28-2016 10:07 AM
Stella's mom I don't think I have much good advice on this. I had a female who used to stare or zone out once in a while, but she wasn't breathing weird or hunching her back. Did the vet do an xray by chance. Maybe he ate a foreign object that is making him uncomfortable as he is trying to pass it??
04-28-2016 09:38 AM
PatchworkRobot
Weird behavior! Any ideas?

Disclaimer: The dog in question has been seen by a vet.

Last night Dreizehn started acting funny.
My mother, who is home with him all day, noticed nothing unusual over the day and he seemed fine when I got home. However, around 7pm he started acting oddly.

I first noticed his change in behavior when I realized that he was standing stock-still with his head lowered and it appeared that he was starting off into space. We called to him a few times and he was unresponsive. After 30 seconds or so he moved to another spot and did the same thing.

His breathing was funny. I could watch him breathe in and out and this seemed more noticeable than usual. When he was breathing out he was really breathing out, looking super skinny as he did. Then, every so often he would tuck his tail and hunch his back for all of a second.

He didn't appear comfortable laying down. Usually he spends his evenings upstairs with us - passed out on his bed so hard that he's drooling in his sleep. Last night he wouldn't lay down for more than 30 seconds and he appeared uncomfortable every time he did lay down.

We couldn't get him excited for anything. I offered him toys, nothing. I offered him butt scratches and he stood for them but he didn't seem to care (usually they are his life-joy). I offered him kibble and he ate it without his usual vigor. I offered him Cinnamon Toast Crunch - which he loves - and he turned his nose up.

We spent two hours at the emergency vet only to be told that "we can't find anything wrong with him." His pulse was good, he was alert and acting normally, he was no longer standing and zoning out or breathing funny, there was no apparent tension or soreness, etc. The vet suspects a very mild seizure but says that this is really his "best guess" as Dreizehn was acting fine. The vet said that sometimes dogs will become a little disoriented after a seizure.

I'm not here because I do not trust the vet (and I"m doing tons of research on seizures today) but because the behavior was so odd. Has anybody else dealt with something like this? Any past experiences that might help me wrap my head around this?

It was just so odd.

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