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Thread: Wobblers 101...A MUST READ!!! Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
08-13-2018 10:21 PM
nhraformula00 Our Sarge at 11 years old had disc 5 and 6 pushing into his spinal cord in November of 2016. Had the surgery done at VCA Arboretum in Downers Grove,Illinois. He is a healthy boy today at age 12-4 months old. He has a little arthritis, but is still loves going on walks.
07-05-2017 12:14 PM
Darkevs https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-wobblers.html

I have added the link to the above thread as there is info on a treatment I had not heard of before. eighmie posted about the Assisi loop used to treat wobblers.

Wobblers Disease
11-03-2016 11:39 AM
GQIQ Hi, Bruno just started signs of wobblers. My Dante had it for many years and he is no longer with us but I am all too familiar with this terrible disease.
I've been doing research online and came across Dr Adamo who is located in the Bay Area. He's developed the Adamo Spinal DiscTM.

World know Ronaldo C da Costa, DMV, MSc, PhD Diplomate ACVIM (Neurology) Professor, Service Head - Neurology and Neurosurgery at Ohio State University is also using Adamo Disc!

HAS ANYONE HEARD OF THIS??!! OR KNOW ANYONE WHO HAS???

PLEASE REPOST THIS TO ALL YOU FEEL MAY BENEFIT? I really need to get some recommendations weather good or bad???

Wobbler Syndrome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9K1jqawoa4
04-15-2015 11:28 PM
Jordie0587 Yes! I read as many as I could lol. My vet is into holistic therapy. He had acupuncture today as well as cold laser treatment. I've seen her do wonders with neuro stuff so I'm confident she will be able to help. I'll ask her about the gold beads procedure, she loves that kind of stuff and I imagine would be happy to get in touch with the vet up North for more info.

I actually worked for her for a while but left/was let go because I had a hard time dealing with shitty owners lol.
04-15-2015 09:39 PM
eighmie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordie0587 View Post
Thank you for compiling all the information and experiences here. This has been extremely helpful as I deal with my boys diagnosis. It has given me hope and some measure of confidence in my vets approach. I trust her implicitly and everything I've read confirms her suggestions.

Thank you
Jordie0587, I'm sorry for your boys diagnosis. I'm still fairly new to the Wobblers thing, but if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. I've been doing the holistic route with my girl and she is doing fantastic. Darkevs linked some of my threads earlier in this post, so you may have already seen them.
04-15-2015 12:20 AM
Jordie0587 Thank you for compiling all the information and experiences here. This has been extremely helpful as I deal with my boys diagnosis. It has given me hope and some measure of confidence in my vets approach. I trust her implicitly and everything I've read confirms her suggestions.

Thank you
03-15-2015 04:37 PM
Juicec6 My old Dobe had the Gold Bead implants. It gave us a good extra 3 - 4 years. His was more from an accident. Running in to me full speed & compressed his spine. I would do them in a heartbeat again. Mine were done by the original Vet in Marion Indiana. Around 1500 dollars
I elected for this instead of surgery because Ohio State said a lot of times it keeps moving on down the spine & multiple surgeries would probably be his life.
03-15-2015 04:14 PM
coffeehugger I follow many Doberman rescue pages and have done a lot of fostering of rescue animals. When it comes to a breed such as purebred Dobermans, I sometimes wonder, as when whole litters are placed for adoption or dogs come out of horrible circumstances, should adopters be concerned about these vital heath issues?

Does the standard early spay and neuter affect the later outcome? I see purebred Doberman pups up for adoption at 8 weeks already neutered. This is an attempt to control breeding, I understand that, but growth is affected also by this practice.

I look at the dogs, and so many especially down in the deep south, have had such sad lives and are so poorly bred, poor nutrition. I have been considering making my next dog a rescue, but I have a lot of reservations. I wonder if these dogs may have lifelong problems that aren't easy to spot right away. Is there any reason to believe rescue Dobermans are more at risk for severe health problems than dogs from reputable breeders?
12-27-2014 05:08 PM
Darkevs so sad to hear about so many of our members Doberman dealing with cvi/wobblers.

not sure if this site has been linked to yet in this thread already but was reading it today.

http://surgery.anzcvs.org.au/surgery...l%20DA-CSM.pdf

found this interesting, and worrisome too.........

"Aetiology is still unknown. Below are some proposed aetiologies:

Genetic: Many investigators propose a genetic origin; however, no well-designed prospective studies have been performed.

Congenital: PhD study investigated CT findings of neonatal Dobermans compared to other neonatal breeds. Stenosis of the cranial aspect of the vertebral canal and asymmetry of the vertebral body were identified in 5/6/7 cervical vertebrae of neonatal Dobermans – ie: Dobermans are born with congenital vertebral stenosis.(Burbidge, 1999)

Body Conformation: Large head and long neck, with rapid growth rate, were previously proposed as a predisposing factor. However, a study of New Zealand Dobermans showed no correlation between conformation (head size, neck length, body length, height) and radiographic signs of CCSM.(Burbidge et al., 1994)

Nutritional: Previously, overfeeding and excessive calcium were implicated in Great Danes. However, given the improvements in diet and the continuing development of CCSM, the importance of nutrition as a predisposing factor is questionable.(Burbidge et al., 1999)"
11-17-2014 10:45 AM
Darkevs sadly we have another DT Dobe and Owner dealing with Wobblers.........

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-wobblers.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ness-help.html

Hugz to Roxy and eighmie.
11-12-2014 04:40 PM
juljules I haven't been on DT since we lost our girl 6 months ago. I realize this last post was a bit emotional, and did not offer much hope to anyone looking for answers on how to cope with wobblers. That was not my intention in starting this thread and was not where I wanted it to end. Please know THERE IS ALWAYS HOPE. Every case is different, every dog is different and every doberman loving owner is different in what they can do to help keep their wobbler pup mobile. There are many success stories here and many wonderful resources to draw from. Do what you can... find a good vet, read everything, love them and make them comfortable. Make the best decision for you and your pup, the choices are many... medical, surgical, alternative or humanely end their suffering when it becomes too much. Above all, take care of yourself in the process. Hugs to you and yours.
06-10-2014 03:47 PM
juljules Thank you for this post. It is very comforting to me that you should write this now. I share your heartache as I had to let my Luna go last week and I am completely crushed. I understand everything you are feeling; I understand your confusion and pain … you are still trying to make sense of this very complicated and heartbreaking issue. That is why Darkev and I started this thread.

The option to treat medically vs. surgically is very personal and depends on the individual case. I'm sure you did everything you could for her and made the best decision for Jasmine going forward with surgery. I know my girl would not have tolerated it well, so I went the other route. Still, I question myself and that decision too. The prednisone kept her mobile for another 6 months, but it also added a whole host of side effects - weight gain, muscle atrophy, stomach problems, hair loss, excessive urination, eating and drinking... turned my young, beautiful, vibrant girl old so quickly. I was keeping her mobile artificially and maybe selfishly, I don't know.

Like you, I thought I could keep her going for a long time and "beat the odds". What I have come to realize is that I couldn't stop it… it was not her fault nor was it mine. My vet said it best, " it is just bad luck and god." While we both did our best for our individual dogs, it simply was out of our hands in the end. All I know is we love these dogs so darn much and will do anything to keep them as long as we can. That can’t be wrong. I’ll picture Jasmine and Luna now, young and healthy again, running their Doberman hearts out over the rainbow bridge.
06-07-2014 08:46 PM
Fortheloveofadoberman As I am glad to have found this today, it also brings alot of heartache. I am sure some of you remember I lost my Jasmine this past Christmas of "wobblers".

I read in a breeders thread today too that someone believes there is a test for CVI. I was told by breeders and the surgery dpt that did Jasmine's surg there is NO testing for this disease. I want to just say how horrible this disease is. I often sat and thought to times in her life if a fall, a trip, or her collar was to blame. OR just me if I did anything to hurt my girl unknowingly. The surgery was sucessful, but I really believe the meds caused her to fail in the end. The vets in MO said, however, I would have at best 2 yrs with her. I got a little over a yr. I am in the medical field and so I was curious about her MRI images and asked to see them. I could see clearly, the nicks in her spinal cord, there were 2 close together. One they thought might have been due to the fall she took, the other was prob the original issue.

I know my dog never had the flexibility in her body even as a puppy. As she grew I could see she appeard weak in the rear and her back legs were "cow haucked" a bit with a weird gate. I am curious to anyone if they noticed stuff like this with their dog? I want to also say how sorry I am for anyone who is suffering with this. I prayed daily that somehow God would keep her going for a long time, that we would beat the odds. So I understand the heartache of watching a healthy dog go down due to neck issues. It is so sad. Jasmine was very healthy and ate well just darn CVI but in the end she died to complications of medicine. Anyway when I have time, I want to read all that you have links too in here. I am so afraid I'm gonna be an ol' mother hen when I get my next puppy.

Thanks for reading and posting your info on this disease. I really appreciate it. As a 1st time doberman owner, it was sure a sad sad experience.
06-07-2014 11:28 AM
juljules THIS IS A 183 page research paper on wobblers.

Caudal Cervical Vertebral Malformation in the Doberman Pinscher

http://mro.massey.ac.nz/bitstream/ha...pdf?sequence=1
04-25-2014 09:35 PM
Darkevs Genetic

"WOBBLER'S SYNDROME (CVI)
References available upon request

Jessica J. Wilcock, DVM

‘Wobbler’s Syndrome’ is the term used to refer to compression of the cervical spinal cord in Doberman Pinschers and Great Danes. This disorder has many names- it is also called cervical vertebral instability, cervical vertebral malarticulation/malformation, cervical vertebral stenotic myelopathy, and cervical spondylopathy – which is probably why most of us refer to it simply as ‘Wobbler’s.’

Wobbler’s is characterized by progressive neurological dysfunction of all four limbs, usually starting with the hind legs. Common symptoms are an abnormal ‘drunken’ or ‘wobbly’ gait, scuffing or dragging of the hind feet, a short, choppy gait of the front legs, neck pain, and holding the head and neck in a flexed (downward) position. Signs may progress to the point where the dog may not be able to walk or get up on its own.

Wobbler’s usually occurs in older Dobermans (3 to 8 years of age) although it has been reported in dogs less than two. The spinal cord compression occurs in the lower neck, most commonly in vertebrae C5, C6 and C7. Some dogs may have multiple areas where the spinal cord is compressed. The compression of the spinal cord can be caused by many things, the most common being:

1) Congenital malformation and/or malarticulation of the vertebrae- A misshapen vertebra, or one that doesn’t align properly with its neighbor can press on the spinal cord.

2) Instability of the vertebrae- usually due to malarticulation. This instability often results in hypertrophy (enlargement) of the ligaments associated with the vertebrae, which act to hold the vertebrae in their proper place. Both instability and hypertrophy of the ligaments can put pressure on the spinal cord.

3) Stenosis (narrowing) of the spinal cord canal- Stenosis can be caused by malformation of the vertebrae, or by hypertrophy of the ligaments associated with the vertebrae. This narrowing of the canal will cause compression of the spinal cord.

4) Protrusion of the intervertebral disks (‘slipped disk’)- A disk can protrude from it’s place between the vertebrae and press on the spinal cord due to malarticulation or instability of the vertebrae. It should be noted that Dobermans with no malformation or malarticulation can also have slipped disks- that is not Wobbler’s Syndrome, that is a dog with Intervertebral Disk Disease.

As you can see, all of the above causes of spinal cord compression are inter- related; because of this, most dogs have more than one cause of compression- however, there usually is one cause that is responsible for the majority of the pressure on the spinal cord.

Treatment of Wobbler’s depends on the severity of the spinal cord compression. Milder cases may respond to rest and corticosteroid (i.e. cortisone) treatment to reduce the inflammation and swelling of the spinal cord. Acupuncture has also been shown to be helpful, especially in relieving pain. Chiropractic adjustment has also been suggested- however, in the case of a dog that has instability of it’s vertebrae, chiropractic adjustment has the potential to cause serious complications. In more severe cases, surgery is the only option. A myelogram or MRI must be done prior to surgery to determine where the compression is, whether there is more than one area of compression, and how severe the compression is. The type of surgery that is performed depends on the cause of the compression. Common surgical procedures performed are a dorsal laminectomy, a ventral slot procedure, a stabilization procedure or a combination of the above. Surgery usually carries a 75% success rate for either stopping the progression of the disease or improving clinical signs if the dog can still walk prior to surgery. The rate falls to 50% in dogs that can no longer walk prior to surgery.

The cause of Wobbler’s Syndrome is still unknown. Genetics, conformation of the neck, nutrition, injury- all have been theorized to play a part. Neck x-rays prior to breeding have been suggested, but since the malformation and malarticulation in an unsymptomatic dog can very subtle, they can be very difficult to interpret. Preventative breeding can be frustrating as most dogs do not show symptoms until they are past their prime breeding age. The best we can do at this point in time is to be aware of Wobbler’s in our pedigrees, and breed responsibly."
02-20-2014 09:04 PM
USMCDoberman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos&Havoc View Post
My 2 yr old doberman slipped on our hardwood floors and took a pretty hard slide into the bar. He took some time getting to his feet but overall seemed fine. Within 4 weeks he was falling, could no longer jump or stand on his back legs and started knuckling on his front legs. X-rays showed nothing, treatment with prednisone for almost 1 month and there was no change for the better. We were recommended to Virginia Tech Vet Hospital for an MRI. It showed compression on his spine at the C5-C7 area of his vertebrae. He had surgery 2 weeks ago and is doing fantastic. I realize surgery is not always the best option but for us it was. Chaos is able to sit, stand and jump- even though he shouldn't be jumping yet due to his recovery. Dr. Pancotto at VA tech, along with the 3 students that were assigned to us, were very understanding and informative about our options and the pros and cons of surgery. Chaos got his staples out on Monday and doesn't have to make the trip back to VA unless his rehab doesn't continue to go well. Attachment 58522



Sent from Petguide.com Free App
Wow poor lil guy, that's a big incision. I had a spinal fusion 10 yrs ago that failed but thankfully it doesn't bother me but my scar is tiny compared to your guys... wow. Sending good recovery vibes his way!
02-20-2014 08:55 PM
Chaos&Havoc My 2 yr old doberman slipped on our hardwood floors and took a pretty hard slide into the bar. He took some time getting to his feet but overall seemed fine. Within 4 weeks he was falling, could no longer jump or stand on his back legs and started knuckling on his front legs. X-rays showed nothing, treatment with prednisone for almost 1 month and there was no change for the better. We were recommended to Virginia Tech Vet Hospital for an MRI. It showed compression on his spine at the C5-C7 area of his vertebrae. He had surgery 2 weeks ago and is doing fantastic. I realize surgery is not always the best option but for us it was. Chaos is able to sit, stand and jump- even though he shouldn't be jumping yet due to his recovery. Dr. Pancotto at VA tech, along with the 3 students that were assigned to us, were very understanding and informative about our options and the pros and cons of surgery. Chaos got his staples out on Monday and doesn't have to make the trip back to VA unless his rehab doesn't continue to go well. Attachment 58522



Sent from Petguide.com Free App
01-29-2014 10:56 AM
juljules Wobbler Syndrome Canada West Veterinary Specialists ? Quality, Compassion and Caring. Committed to Making the Critical Difference.

Video:

Large Dogs and Giant Breeds May Develop Wobbler's Syndrome
01-26-2014 09:14 PM
juljules Yes, not so great that there are so many issues here on dt that relate to wobblers/cvi, but oh so great to have it all in one place for easy reference Certainly one of the most confusing and heart breaking issue to deal with...a healthy, active doberman with mobility issues...knowledge is key in getting the right diagnosis and treatment.

Your efforts are very much appreciated!!!
01-26-2014 08:32 PM
Darkevs just goes to show how many DT members Doberman have had to deal with wobblers.

it is a health issue that more owners should be aware of.
01-26-2014 08:27 PM
juljules Wow, thats a lot of threads just on cvi/wobblers, thanks darkev! This is great!

More useful links to add to the list.....


http://www.animaisparaliticos.com.br...1085193d8d.pdf


http://www.vcaspecialtyvets.com/ckfi...all%20Down.pdf


Wobbler Syndrome: Treatment and Prognosis | Wobbler Syndrome – Cervical Spondylo Myelopathy


Doberman Diseases, Wobblers, WOBBLERS SYNDROME, SPONDYLOLITHESIS


IVDD Drugs and Side Effects
01-26-2014 01:12 PM
Darkevs https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...treatment.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-wobblers.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...hind-legs.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...6-jasmine.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ng-my-dog.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...vise-asap.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-wobblers.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-thoughts.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ight-legs.html
01-26-2014 12:40 PM
Darkevs https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...h-illness.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...la-update.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-problems.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...lp-needed.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-dogs-out.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ropractic.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-problems.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-episodes.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-days-now.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...wel-issue.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-symptoms.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...s-disease.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...rs-elbows.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...eg-issues.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...dobe-pain.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-syndrome.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ences-pls.html
01-25-2014 08:16 PM
Darkevs https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...w-morning.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ck-wounds.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/search.p...&pp=25&page=20

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...not-right.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...th-issues.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...right-now.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...dobe-limp.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ny-advice.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...dogs-hips.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ers-today.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...y-wobbler.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-wobblers.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...y-problem.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ist-visit.html
01-25-2014 01:35 PM
Darkevs https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ed-advice.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-wobblers.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...s-my-dobe.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-wobblers.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-has-done.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-wobblers.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...se-advice.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...s-disease.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ysis-rear.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-wobblers.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...lers-help.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-wobblers.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-head-low.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-wobblers.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ontinence.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-wobblers.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-wobblers.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ropractic.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...lers-help.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...rs-advice.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...paralysis.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...-wobblers.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman...ront-legs.html
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