|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|07-22-2016 05:52 PM|
Originally Posted by Panzercommander View Post
I'll admit I'm a snob. I'd have MANY breeders put in jail for the treatment (or lack) of of their dogs. If you spent one WEEK volunteering for a rescue organization you would too. I've YET to meet someone in rescue that's not against back yard breeders! They will tell you to either buy from a reputable breeder or rescue. I support those that are bettering the breed, not only through showing and proving conformation and workability, but through health testing, ensuring that their litters are returned back to them and not a shelter, and many of them (if not all)help raise funds for rescues as well. If this belief makes me a snob then get the good book out and I'll sign it in blood because I'll believe in this and support it til I die.
|07-22-2016 04:56 PM|
|4x4bike ped|| |
Originally Posted by Panzercommander View Post
I suggest, that if you have an issue with DT, it's members and their attitudes, that you open a new thread. Probably on Site Feedback or Doberman Related Chat.
Then it can be commented on with fresh eyes. I for one would be happy to consider you opinion.
|07-22-2016 04:32 PM|
|melbrod||I don’t know about the people being better--but EVERY dog here is better at SOMETHING than ALL the other dogs...at least if you listen to their owners.|
|07-22-2016 03:44 PM|
|06-19-2014 10:56 AM|
What is the benchmark for breeders as far as goals? |
I understand the heath testing . Is preservation of the working temperament as high on the list?
I am on the outside looking in right now. I have owned and worked dogs in protection and also hunting. None of which has been a Doberman.
I have witnessed a couple of well trained Dobermans worked in protection.
Both by the same owner. I do not know where this individual obtained his dogs . But they were very nice. He had very good control on them. Friendly dogs that if need be turn on ,
Very well balanced dogs. (wish I knew who he bought them from).
That being said I saw a handful that came from show breeders that came in for testing by the trainer that relieved themselves or hid behind the owners legs. When temperament tested.
I do not know where any of these dogs came from. I didn't care at the time to find out.
Dogs were stunning but pretty much useless dog food recyclers.
I guess I'm asking how important is keeping the Doberman a working dog?
Now mind you a working dog is NOT an uncontrollable rage filled animal.
A dog with strong enough nerve to stand between you and an aggressive stranger and can play with your kids.
|03-09-2014 08:08 PM|
My family and friends love my Dobe to death, they are always saying how much they love him and how much they would love to have a Dobe JUST like him. Until I tell them the following things:
1) I get up 1 1/2 hours before I technically have to go to work to feed him, walk him and spend time with him
2) I hired a dog walker to come in and walk him at lunch time
3) My husband spends about 45 mins after work playing with him and our other dogs
4) I take him for another hour walk when I get home after work
5) He goes to daycare 1 or 2 days a week
6) He has eaten 3 different beds
7) He eats a bag of food in just over a week (a 12 kg bag)
8) He is on thyroid medication 2xday for the rest of his life
9) The longest time he hasn't been to vist the vets for something or other is about 3-4 months (and he isn't quite 3 yet!)
10) When its -30 degrees outside he STILL needs to go out and exercise.......and because it's too damn cold to spend an hour outside with him then we need to be very creative about other ideas to entertain him. After this winter our ideas are becoming limited, but we still need to entertain him because he gets bored easily.........and we all know a bored Doberman is never a good thing!
When I tell them all of these things...........funny how their tune changes and they say they just want to visit him
I don't even add up the amount of money I have spent on Zildjian because it doesn't matter to me.........but I guess then I don't have an iPhone.............and I would much rather spend money on him then myself
Neuter your boy and spay your girl.........if your family REALLY wants a puppy........tell them to go to a rescue, there are so many that need homes. They just need to be patient.
|03-09-2014 02:57 PM|
What if your dam whelps 15 puppies or more? You really have 15 family members wanting a puppy? Are your family members prepared for the time, patience and seemingly endless training for a doberman puppy? If they decide they don't want the puppy anymore are you prepared to take the puppy back?
It isn't just a matter of the breeding, but the willingness to be there at all times that sets breeders apart. The knowledge of the breed and what behaviours are normal and what are a warning sign. So much more to think about than just the puppies.
|03-09-2014 02:40 PM|
And no, it's not ok.
|03-09-2014 12:48 PM|
From what I remember, there are breeders who had litters reserved for family members and friends yet they didn't have any interest in wanting/taking care of a brand new puppy. I guess its better to say "omg I want your puppies!" Then to physically care for one ^^. Then, you have to take care of a litter of puppies you had planned to go to just family members and friends and find them another home. |
I believe Rufflyspeaking made a post about it.
|03-09-2014 11:30 AM|
And I'd pick a Doberman, any single day, into infinity, over an iPhone. |
|03-08-2014 07:08 PM|
What? I am so confused by this statement. I have an iPhone and 2 Dobermans...they co-exist peacefully and, I'm nearly certain, neither the phone nor the dogs even know the other exists.
Please. Tell your friends and family that they can be dog owners and iPhone owners. If they'd like to speak to someone who is experienced in living with both an iPhone and Dobermans, feel free to PM me. I'd be happy to chat with them about their completely irrational concerns that one must somehow choose between being a dog owner and an iPhone owner.
|03-08-2014 05:23 PM|
My former housemate's terrier mix ate a leather couch. She went in one end and made a tunnel and popped out the other end like a boss. The living room looked like it'd snowed inside and the couch was totaled. That ended up costing them a thousand (vet bills, replacement couch). After that, she ate a chocolate cake and some diet pills. More vet bills, because the 'make her vomit with hydrogen peroxide' the E-vet told them to do didn't work. She drank it, and didn't puke... this dog was a mutant, I swear. That was all before she was a year and a half old. |
Puppies are some hard work, for sure. A lot of people would be better off with an adult dog until they're absolutely sure they can handle the time and energy a puppy requires.
I'd also question these family members... what are they going to do if their dog has an accident and needs vet care? Griffin cost me $700 bucks after I adopted him, because he cracked a tooth and had to have it extracted. If they won't give up their iPhones to afford the cost of a dog, they won't give them up to afford vet care for a dog... and those are your babies that will suffer for it.
|03-08-2014 04:19 PM|
Originally Posted by AugustusMcCrae View Post
Or better yet, ate the drapes and couch and now you have a vet bill for $4000.
|03-08-2014 04:09 PM|
I think that producing ANY puppies with your dogs perpetuates this whole exhaustive cycle. How do you know they won't breed the pups? what will you do with the remaining pups? Just don't.....
|03-08-2014 03:21 PM|
Ah, here's the post I was thinking of: |
How much does it cost to breed a litter?
The original post was done in 2007, so a lot of costs will naturally go up as time goes on. A C-section alone can run over $1,000 if that happens, and it can. Some of the expenses listed were for shipping dogs, and transportation for the female. The vast majority of the time, the best match for your female is not going to be a dog in your own home or kennel- so there's expenses there.
VonLuka (username WorkingK9s) posted this breakdown a little further in that thread, from 2013 (hope you don't mind me copy-pasting it, it's good info!):
"How about my current litter:
Cost to fly to the male for me - 1900.00
Cost to fly the bitch including health certficate - 580.00
Cost of hotel/rental car/food while there - 1800.00
Cost of stud fee - 1000.00
Vet care for birth (needed some oxytocin to get the last couple out then got a bit of a uterine infection) - 550.00
Tails and dew claws - 225.00
Ear crop (not done yet, but I know how much it will cost) - 3000.00
So, 9055.00 which doesn't include extra food that the female eats (she is getting 3 x the normal amount). It also doesn't include puppy food, puppy toys and other associated costs.
ETA: I will admit that this is the most expensive litter I have ever had."
Anyway, it's a good thread to get a basic idea of the costs of breeding and raising a litter- I'd read through all of it, because there's some very good info and advice there on litters. And again, if you're considering becoming a breeder, get a mentor and have someone to rely on for advice. And don't count on your family to take puppies... it's easy to say you want a dog, but when the time comes, people tend to disappear.
|03-08-2014 03:13 PM|
Wow. I just got back around to DT a couple of days ago, and had been reading through this thread. I despise people that breed "designer" breeds and the ignorant idiots that pay for them. The only good to come from this thread is that we know what Myra is doing and where she is and it made it very simple for me to report her to AKC and to the local AC authority. |
And Myra when they come chat with you and tell you they received an anonymous report... there was nothing anonymous about it.... it was ME!
|03-08-2014 03:08 PM|
You're also still on the hook for all the expenses of breeding a litter. If something goes wrong, and Mom needs a c-section or other serious vet care, that's on you. Puppy shots, deworming, vet visits, food, all of the time that you'll spend raising a litter- plan on having no life or sleep for a while- ear cropping, etc. etc. That's all your responsibility. There was an excellent post on this forum about the expenses of breeding a litter, I'll have to see if I can dig it up.
There's also the "Oh, I want a puppy!" knee-jerk reaction that people have whenever anyone talks about breeding. Then when the litter's on the ground, people change their minds about taking on a dog. What are you going to do if all the family members who swore up and down they would take a puppy suddenly decide they don't want it after all? Or if they decide they don't want the puppy when he/she hits the Doberteens and they show up at your door, expecting you to take the puppy back? A responsible breeder should always take their dogs back, if owners can't keep them.
Honestly, I'd steer your family towards a reputable breeder or Doberman rescue. If they want a dog, it's better for them to talk to someone who can match the right dog with their situation. That keeps you out of potential drama with your family too. I'd go ahead, get them neutered, and then find a mentor in the breed to get started with a good breeding program in the future.
|03-08-2014 02:49 PM|
|03-08-2014 02:48 PM|
after 5 pages and 121 posts, my initial response to this thread still stands!! |
|03-08-2014 02:40 PM|
|03-08-2014 01:50 PM|
HOLY COW talk about a lot of responses! |
You guys are great-thank you so much for the feedback! I did not mean to get people so heated at one another on tangent issues but it is really neat to see how passionate you all are.
I will admit that I only read the first 3 pages before typing this response but I felt that was all I needed. I understand the meaning of breeding stock and the importance to title the dog and responsibly breed for betterment of the breed. It is sad that the cost of the dogs are so high but then again people can always find a way to pay for them. I choose 2 Dobermans over the new Macbook and new iPhone so I can see how people can reasonably pay for a Doberman if they are willing to be responsible with their finances.
You all have convinced me that this is not the time in my life to breed Dobermans nor are the dogs I currently have the pair that I should start my breeding career out with. I think it will better suit my lifestyle after school and probably even after medicine but I look forward to developing myself when the time comes. Thank you all for the information, and at times, your blatant honesty.
On an ending note, what are your opinions on producing a single litter of puppies for family members and then having the male neutered? We have divorced parents and many siblings starting out their families that have fallen in love with our dogs but could never bring themselves to sacrifice their beloved iPhones to get one. Would it be okay if we allowed one litter from our dogs about 18-24 months from now to be given to our family only? None of the dogs would be sold, none would go to strangers, and all the homes they would be going to are great. I know this litter would not 'better the breed' but I also know that it wouldn't be polluting it. Again your honesty on the subject will be greatly appreciated.
I know all of you are very passionate about this subject but if you all take issue with something that someone else has said please respond to them in a private message instead of a post.
|03-07-2014 01:29 PM|
|LaneyB||I just have to mention that I bought a backyard bred/puppy mill lab years ago, before I even knew what those terms meant. He had the best personality you can imagine, but boy did I end up financially screwed. He was on sale for $400 (from $600) if I bought him that very day because they had so many puppies. He died at age 9, and I put about $20,000 in vet bills into him just to get him to that age. Then I found out from a vet tech at a local vet that many dogs from this place have major health issues. So I think maybe temperament-wise labs are easy to breed, but health-wise it is still a huge gamble.|
|03-07-2014 12:07 PM|
Originally Posted by AugustusMcCrae View Post
I originally thought she was just out of touch with reality but then I think her statement was a way she justifies breeding mix breeds and charging outrageous prices.
|03-07-2014 11:57 AM|
Originally Posted by I'mMyra View Post
Wow. Just WOW. I'm sorry, but what the actual F***? I don't even.... Yeah. No.
|03-07-2014 11:06 AM|
RFR, just for curiosity's sake, I checked out our local animal shelter for small dogs. Out of roughly 20 dogs up for adoption right now, four were little dogs. Most were herding breed mixes, pit bull crosses, and various hunting dogs. But, if you'd like a little dog, you have a choice between two yorkie mixes, a Jack Russel mix, and a min pin mix. |
So yes, when I get a puppy he/she will be from a breeder who knows their dogs, titles, and health tests. If I ever want a mixed breed, animal shelter it is, because there's a great variety of mutts you can adopt. Of course, there's deliberate crosses done for specific purposes (herding/hunting etc.) and that's a different ball game, although any responsible breeder will do all health testing, titling or other proof that the dogs can work, etc. Just not charge $3,000 for throwing two dogs together and hanging a cutesy-sounding name on the pups. If I want a mutt with no health testing and the rest of it, I'll head down to the pound or a local dog/cat rescue. Otherwise, a good breeder for sure.
Edited to add- about rescue adoption fees? Yeah, $250 would not have covered all of Griffin's vet care and food bills while he was in the rescue. He was dumped in the shelter with no records, so they had to assume he hadn't had any vaccinations. So, his SPCA adoption fee, a full vet exam, plus vaccines, plus three months of food (he was underweight according to the shelter paperwork, so he needed some groceries), plus the rescue and foster home's time and gas. $250 might cover part of that, but certainly not all. And then there's the costs the rescue has for dogs who are in worse shape than Griffin- the ones who are injured, need surgeries, months of care to get them healthy again.
I adopted Griffin from these guys, btw, if anyone in the DC area is looking for a Dobe. Shameless plug for Doberman Assistance, Rescue, and Education. Thanks for hauling Griff out of a kill shelter 6 years ago. He's a good dog.
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