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04-29-2019 06:42 PM
dobebug
Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
And I'd gotten used to the general dobe personality too. I figured I could handle a lot of stuff but I'm finding out that working with herding-type Harold DogDog is quite a different matter.
In general the manner in which working dogs (those categorized as "Working Dogs by the AKC) work, and train, and regard their doggy world is very different from the breeds that occupy the Herding Group--then if you really want to get 'different'--try some of the breeds in the Hound Group--particularly the sight hounds.

And having trained quite a few Dobermans, one Australian Shepherd and one Afghan House. I found some remarkable sinilarities (along with some interesting differences).

My Dobermans were (with one notable exception--who, frankly was dumb aa a stump) bright, very trainable, quick to learn and never forgot anything they'd been trained for. And they all, without exception if you bored them by trying to drill on stuff they already knew were very inclined to give you the finger and shut down.

By the time I'd put a CD on the Afghan Hound I was very glad I'd had experience with Dobermans because--as hard wired the hunting instinct is in a sight hound--these are NOT--no matter what all those "How smart is your dog" lists that dog magazines like to put out that usually have Afghans at the end of the list--calling them dumb. Afghan Hounds are definitely not dumb--in fact my particular Afghan was very bright indeed. And he didn't like being drilled on exercises any better than any of my Dobermans did. Guess what he did? He shut down--he was more polite than the Dobes==at least he didn't give me the finger first. But you did have to take into consideration that hard wired hunting instinct. I was once doing recalls with him in a big field--what I didn't realize was that the field had rabbits--lots of them. My dog realized this when he was sitting waiting to be called--he stood up (unheard of) and looked to the left and was gone in a flash--that very primitive part of his brain and taken over and less than five minutes later my dog was back with a rabbit for me. I reluctantly took it and we left the field--we didn't go back--I didn't want wild California rabbit--for one thing most of them are disease carriers and dead ones pass that particular disease along to anyone who handles them.

The Aussie was different too--he was bright and like a good herding dog didn't need a lot of training--but he was also a classic ADD case--as long as he only had to deal with training at home or at most a small class of dogs who well trained and well handled he was OK--get him into the chaos of a show building--forget it--he could hardly remember he had a name much less what it was.

The similarity is that all of these breeds were designed to be independent workers--the Doberman took more direction to work well than the Afghan or Aussie--but both of those dogs were expected to do stuff independently.

Afghans were originally the home do it all dog just like the general purpose farm dogs of Europe. They were guards of the livestock and people and hunters for the families that owned them. Herders when the families moved--pretty impressive.

Aussies were independent herders--sheep was their main stay but they can and have been used to herd domestic fowl, sheep and cattle. Doing all of this either without direction at all or direction from a distance.

Pretty impressive what these dogs can do without any help from us.

Stuff like the Dobe bitch that would let people into the family home if no one was there--but she wouldn't let them out again. Try training a dog to do that.

I like training dogs--I like going to trials and watching some of the very unlikely breeds out doing things you would never suspect they might be good at. And I like it when we've got the only Doberman in a very big set of trials and a woman came over to tell us she loved our Doberman and had been watching him qualify for both days--he was very beautiful and so very well behaved.. She was petting Burma the Bad--he smiled at her--we said thanks and thought--we have a very nice dog--so what if he forgets to sit in front of Nancy during the recall.

dobebug
04-29-2019 05:58 PM
dobebug
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyDi View Post
Glad to see you up and about DB............

LOL--I do somewhat better standing than I do sitting (which always hurts and is sometimes impossible for me). But standing on dirt in a big arena isn't like having to stand for hours on cement so I did pretty well--went home both Friday and Saturday exhausted--and went to the clinic to take care of the kitties and laundry and a variety of other junk...that was evidently harder than the dirt arena on my sciatica--I got up this morning and could hardly walk--I'm still pretty lame but it's getting somewhat better.

I'd really like to take advantage of this very nice weather we're having and get some stuff planted but bending over plays merry h3ll with the nerve pain in my left leg.

BAH HUMBUG...

dobebug
04-29-2019 05:45 PM
dobebug OK folks here's part two of Burma's weekend at the Sherwood Obedience Club Obedience and Rally trials in Clackamas (Oregon).

Burma the Bad did very well over the course of the weekend--basically he was a very good dog--he could have done a little better but John is right s**t, he's a dog.

So in Rally where he went into Friday with a Novice Rally title (RN--Burma the Nurse) and was entered in Intermediate classes each day and let's have some applause and wistles--he not only qualified each day (Friday, Saturday and Sunday but was in the top 4 qualifiers each day and got a ribbon for placing plus a green ribbon for a title earned.

So now he has his RN and his RI and he'll be moving along to bigger and better things--off leash for one and jumps for another--more demanding but a good many of my dogs have found that increased demand of them made them work a little better. Advanced Rally look out--here comes Burma.

And in Obedience--he went into these trials with one leg in Beginner Novice--so he needed two more--he got those on Friday and Saturday--that gave him his fir4st Obedience title--BN and along with that the decision that Nancy needed to make whether to move him up and just leave him in the Beginner Novice class. With enough prodding she moved him up--to CD-B. This was a class where he wasn't going to get any of the placement ribbons--at best he'd make a qualifying score. The CD-B class is for anyone who has ever titled a dog in CD Obedience and some of the people entered in this class aren't just someone with a dog like Burma who had moved up from the Beginner class--they were folks whose dogs often were capable of performing at Utility level but whose owners chose not to show them until they were perfect in all the CD and Open class requirements as well as Utility. You sometimes see these dogs whiz through the regular class--picking up all three of the original Obedience titles in 9 shows.

But in a class where the top four dogs who qualified had scores of 199, 198, 198, and 196--Burma the move up was the fifth place dog with a very satisfactory score of 189.

So now he can go to the next trials with one leg for his CD title and working on his RA title.

He was entered and shown in 6 classes (3 Rally and 3 Obedience) and got qualifying legs in all the classes he was in--got two new titles and even paid attention part of the time.

The only reason Nancy ever gets upset with him is when he is NOT paying attention because it's like having an entirely different dog in the ring when that happens.

She said "Yeah, he wasn't always paying attention and I know he can do better but most of the time he was trying--you just don't always get everything that might be possible."

Yup, I'll agree with that Nancy. And I'll confess that my goals are much lower than hers for Obedience--I'll settle for total scores of 171 in Obedience (71 for Rally) which are qualifying if you also qualified in all the parts of the class. Nancy has higher goals--she's seen Burma's potential and she wants really high scores from him...

And therein ends this part of the story of Burma in Obedience (and Rally)

dobebug
04-29-2019 12:16 PM
melbrod And I'd gotten used to the general dobe personality too. I figured I could handle a lot of stuff but I'm finding out that working with herding-type Harold DogDog is quite a different matter.
04-29-2019 07:12 AM
LadyDi Glad to see you up and about DB............
04-28-2019 09:36 PM
4x4bike ped LOl bug... We are so used to Dobermans being so smart that it is almost scary.

Still, dogs like humans run the gamut. Maybe Burma just walks to the beat of a different drummer.

Regardless... Good Burma for your Intermediate Novice Rally Title.

S*** bug, they are just Dogs! LOL.

Seriously, over the years when one of my boys has disappointed me with respect to obedience, I generally say " Yeah, I could have done better, but, "Heck he's a dog...".

Still my thing. I never get pissed off or frustrated. Mostly, I laugh.

Of course since I have never competed with my boys, that is my luxury!

John
Portland OR
04-28-2019 07:43 PM
dobebug It's been a long time--Toad's son Burma was such a twit that I threw my hands in the air and said "This is a dog I won't be training..." My friend Nancy (who has Burma's litter sister Willow--sighed and took him away and spend months in beginning classes patiently waiting for him to stop looking like a marble in a sink--running around on leash, off leash in the big ring until he finally wore down enough to actually come to her--that was many months ago.

I watched some of the progress and missed a lot mor but Nancy annound early this week that Burma was entered at the Sherwood Obedience Clubs big summer trial at the Clackamas Fairgrounds (Oregon)--except for today when the clinic cats have priority over everything else--I was attending the trials on Friday and Saturday and excused on Sunday.

Last summer Burma managed to get a RN title in Agililty--I know he did because AKC sent the certificate to me.

So in Obedience Burma had one leg for his Beginning Obedience title--he got two more legs and two third place ribbons on Friday and Saturday and a green ribbon and the Beginner Novice title. And then with a lot of prodding from me and Burma--he likes to poke you if he thinks you might not be paying sufficient attention, Nancy moved him up to Novice B--he knows the routines and he can do them all but it tends to be a coin toss whether he'll be paying close attention to Nancy and not6 be lost in gawking at something or someone outside the ring. I haven't hear those results yet

And he was working in Intermediate (Novice) in Rally--and got two legs there on Friday and Saturday and if he managed to keep his wits about him and got another leg today that will also give him his RI Rally title.

His Obedience recalls have vanished--I'm not sure what is going on in his tiny head--but he has 1) failed the recall utterly by sitting as if his butt was nailed to the ground when called, 2) Lost points off when he came (at a slave-like trudge and sat so far away if the judge had called for her to reach outand touch the dog he'd have failed that one too. 3) Lost points off on Friday when he hopped up when called and galloped to her and then stood--looking stupidly confused about what he should do next. 4) And on Friday he leaped up, galloped up to her and slightly past her and realized when he started to sit there was something wrong with his position--he looked at the Judge, he looked at Nancy and then he hurridly made a tight little circle behind her and oozed nervously into heel position. I need to work with him on the recall--Nancy always can get better heeling than I can but I can usually get fail proof recalls.

Congratulations Burma--we always knew you had it in you--but I lack patience and Nancy was the answer for you...

That's what we've been doing folks--the working list for the summer is to put the Novice title on Burma at the July shows and hopefully the Rally Advanced title as well.

dobebug
03-02-2018 10:10 AM
ECIN Thought I would give you all a quick Mr. B update -- Recap - one of the main reasons for attending this class was to ease Mr. B around other dogs - as I have said - he's pretty good - till another dog comes in - then the other dog starts barking at him - the all H breaks lose - After last week - I was very happy with how things were going - he was better with the other dogs - really a non event - His Obedience's is great !

But --- last night - we were early to the class - We sat down - his little friend Nobbie was there ( yellow lab ) - Then the coon dog came in - He was losing it barking - which he started it this time - then Winnie - then Jack then Kinder - HE was a hand full to say the least ! I came real close to loading him up and coming home ! I had had a long day here in the on farm office - all mental stuff and - yes I was a little tired - I guess - Then after everybody was there - he settled right down ! Was a prefect gentlemen ! It was our turn to show off our training ! Dang - he nailed it !! The training had a grin on her face and said boy - your a little rock star - lol This include the distraction part + 2 minute sit stay with distractions

I worked his tail off the past week with the distraction part - Pet Valu - Rural King - btw all on Sunday = lots of distractions +_ one day to the bank - elevator - post office .

Now - back to last night - The training had a talk with me - yes - in front of all the others : )))) I felt like I was at the principles office - lol But she said he was feeding off the other dogs energy as they came in hopping around - one running in - He was excited by them - I thought about it - yes - I think she was right - The other part was I was very frustrated with him - and yes I was ! I felt we were back to square one ! I will be honest here - I wasn't frustrated - I was P.O.ed !!

Looking back the things I did wrong last night - I was tired - when he got excited - I did not move him around enough - break his obsession with what the other dogs were doing - I was not a good leader or trainer - I should have made him sit - stay = more forceful with command and lead -

I forgot one thing here that might have had a big effect on Mr. B - He was full of energy ! It rained very hard all day = He was full of energy !

One other thing - as the class got under way - the other dogs were also very active - Now you all will think I'm crazy here - But we are at a full moon - Over the years - raising cattle - it seems that a full moon can do funny things to a animal - lol people too -

So I like to analyze good things - bad things -

1. I was tired

2. Dog was full of energy - Most times - I run him threw a quick in house class - my fault - I was putting out fires in the trucking side .

3, I was behind the dog - did not anticipate what was about to happen - I know how he is !

4. Do not get frustrated ! Keep calm Ken !!!

5. He did great in obedience ! The off site work paid big ! Others made comments on his distractions part - he was the only dog to pass !

6. Keep working with him !

7. RELAX !!! Have fun with work - this is not Westminster --- Yet

8. Thanks to all the great advise I receive from my friends here !

9. Everybody --- Have a great day !

10. - ... Ken
02-24-2018 01:29 PM
ECIN Have to tell you a funny here -- We just did a 1/2 hour class -- in house - everything - sit stay - down - you name it - the wife said maybe big girl could help - My first thought was - this is going to be a rodeo - lol

Well we brought in Ali - of course - she had to go get a " BALL " and here she came - I had him in the sit stay by my side - had wife do the timing - Poor big boy - Ali brought the ball to him and dropped right at his paws - He sat there ! never even tried anything - - then she gave him a couple of licks by his ear - he just sat there - did what you all said - he was highly rewarded !

Boy - ole Ali put him to the test - btw - he passed - Maybe I'm just worrying to much : ))) Just don't anybody tell Clesa -- OK ??

Thanks Bug !!!!
02-24-2018 12:39 PM
dobebug
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECIN View Post
Need some advise from you Pro trainers : ))

I enrolled Mr. B in a group obedience class - to help him be at more ease around other dogs - We have a female Dobie and he gets along fine with her - but it's the --- " Other " dogs that barks at him first - then not a good thing - Since going to the classes - he's doing great - he really is - the trainer asked why I was even there - He is doing great - then the last class - we got a curve ball - There will be a obedience test at the last class - Pass - and we get a cert. ! Here's one thing we may have trouble on - he has to sit - or lay for 2 minutes - with distractions - He will sit all day long If I ask - yet - hes a Doberman ! He's always watching - working - at the end of the meeting - The trainer - sort of tested us - Mr. Business was laying - watching - he had been in this position for ? maybe 5 minutes - then she walked over to the door - opened it and walked out - all the time watching over her shoulder - well that got Mr. B's attention and he stood up - The trainer laughed and said - that's his job to pay attention -

So yesterday - I upped the training - took him to town with me - Stopped at the bank = busy place on Friday - I had him sit - he was watching the door - then people starts coming in - he was really watching - but sat ! They asked me if I had been waited on - I said no - but go ahead - we are training - He made it for maybe 4 minutes ! So - my Doberman friends - am I training in the right direction ? Taking to places for distractions ? I think this kind of training for a Doberman is tuff - it go's against - there rules - lol

Thanks for in advise

...Ken
Yo Ken,

Yeah as Rosemary said you are doing it right. Take him places, put him in a sit or down and tell him stay. Treat lavishly when you free him from the stay command.

I add time in slowly and I start with sits because a down position is tougher for a dog to handle--since it puts them in a very subordinate position. So start with sits and work up time then do shorter downs but keep doing sits.

Lots of places will make him more confident that you will take care of him while he is locked into a trained position.

I used to break down entire dog show set ups for the handler I was traveling with while my dog (or dogs) did a sit stay waiting for me to finish breaking down up to 10 or 12 crates plus all of the crate covers and bags of show gear etc. Tended to amaze the conformation people but since all my dogs went on to do Obedience, Rally and Agility after they were finished in the conformation ring it was just a little more training diversity for them. When I was in Vermont the Aussie (who was just a puppy) loved to go to the library with me (good old Vermont--the only place that state wouldn't let you take the doghs was grocery stores and restaurants) the library had the best dog treat and if he'd been very good he got one when I checked out the books. The second best treats were at the bank but they never gave him money....
02-24-2018 12:12 PM
ECIN Thanks Rosie ! Will do !

Thanks for replying -!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Failing is NOT a option = me a bad trainer - lol
02-24-2018 12:05 PM
Rosemary Yes, go to different places, and reward him for holding his stay. Make sure you give him breaks, though.
02-24-2018 11:40 AM
ECIN Need some advise from you Pro trainers : ))

I enrolled Mr. B in a group obedience class - to help him be at more ease around other dogs - We have a female Dobie and he gets along fine with her - but it's the --- " Other " dogs that barks at him first - then not a good thing - Since going to the classes - he's doing great - he really is - the trainer asked why I was even there - He is doing great - then the last class - we got a curve ball - There will be a obedience test at the last class - Pass - and we get a cert. ! Here's one thing we may have trouble on - he has to sit - or lay for 2 minutes - with distractions - He will sit all day long If I ask - yet - hes a Doberman ! He's always watching - working - at the end of the meeting - The trainer - sort of tested us - Mr. Business was laying - watching - he had been in this position for ? maybe 5 minutes - then she walked over to the door - opened it and walked out - all the time watching over her shoulder - well that got Mr. B's attention and he stood up - The trainer laughed and said - that's his job to pay attention -

So yesterday - I upped the training - took him to town with me - Stopped at the bank = busy place on Friday - I had him sit - he was watching the door - then people starts coming in - he was really watching - but sat ! They asked me if I had been waited on - I said no - but go ahead - we are training - He made it for maybe 4 minutes ! So - my Doberman friends - am I training in the right direction ? Taking to places for distractions ? I think this kind of training for a Doberman is tuff - it go's against - there rules - lol

Thanks for in advise

...Ken
11-21-2017 08:11 PM
dobebug Holy mackerel is right...I thought I had a pretty good idea about the changes they had been discussing but some of these changes are much more complex than anything I had anticipated.

I need to take a dog and a printed out description of some of the changes and see if my more skilled dog can do this new stuff. Toad could but because of his partial cruciate tear I don't do any jumping with him and not much heeling--it isn't terribly comfortable for him to sit.

Geeze!
11-21-2017 01:37 PM
Rosemary Holy mackerel! Take a look at Appendix A, starting on page 20.

http://images.akc.org/pdf/about/board_minutes/1117.pdf
09-11-2017 08:39 PM
Rosemary These are the recommendations of the Group Exercise Task Force. I think I like them. No, I'm sure I like them. They will be put to the Board in the October meeting, to be voted on during the November meeting. If approved, they will go into effect March 2018. http://images.akc.org/pdf/events/obe...482.1478813941
07-05-2017 08:17 PM
Rosemary Interesting news from the AKC today. Obedience News and Updates - American Kennel Club

July 5, 2017
The AKC convened a task force of five judges, exhibitors and trainers to explore changes that could maximize safety, while still testing the important aspect of the "stay" skill.
Mindful of the concerns and suggestions sent to the AKC from all sectors of the sport, the Task Force members spent three days exploring and formulating changes.

In today's culture of diverse dog training methods and philosophies that variously impact the behavior of dogs coming to trials, the AKC recognizes exhibitor concerns for stronger safety measures to protect all dogs from interference of any kind in the ring during competition. At the same time, there is also a strong consensus in the sport that the impulse control and obedience demonstrated in group stays must be preserved.

The committee’s work resulted in the following recommendations:

The creation of new individual exercises for Novice and Open that will test a stay with distance between dog and handler.

That one group exercise be retained in Novice that will test both sit and down stays in the presence of other dogs, with spacing and leash use to ensure safety, and a formation option that will allow up to ten dogs in the ring.

That open out-of-sight stays be replaced by an individual exercise also testing sit and down skills, and a command discrimination exercise that will demonstrate steadiness and obedience at a distance with skills performed in place. For Open A dogs the exercise creates a stepping stone toward Utility. For the Open B dogs, a randomized order of skills is designed to challenge experienced teams at least as much as the group exercises do now.

The recommended changes will streamline scheduling for judges, reduce conflicts for exhibitors showing multiple dogs, and maintain a level of challenge appropriate to the class. With more confidence in their dogs’ safety in the ring, we hope that concerned owners will re-engage in AKC obedience and feel inspired to pursue their goals.

More details will be published when descriptions have been fine-tuned by AKC. It is anticipated this will occur around the beginning of September.
07-24-2016 09:26 PM
Rosemary I think we have made something of a breakthrough with scent articles. I've done a few sessions of putting treats in the "hot" tin, but today, there is no food, just my scent.

[youtube=Ilka]N-IiMUyFaHI[/youtube]

She's even sitting there, facing the gate, and can clearly see and hear the kids playing in a bounce house across the street, and not reacting to them.
02-24-2016 02:36 PM
Rosemary Well, here are the results of our submission.

Ilka's NCO-1 certificate by Rosemary Elwell, on Flickr

She is the third dog registered, and the second to title.
02-19-2016 04:06 PM
Rosemary There is a new (as in, formed this year) online titling organization for obedience, called the Non Competitive Obedience Association. Non Competitive Obedience Association They just awarded their first title last week. I sent Ilka's submission off yesterday. I'm not exactly holding my breath, but hey, you never know....

[youtube=NCO]04sIBWBDFPI[/youtube]
Heeling is NOT our strong point....

We also did our first attempt at a CRO level 2 course this week. It was harder than it looked. I did get one run edited and saved. I'm not super happy with it, but it was the best of the lot, so... I'll probably go ahead and submit it next month.
12-09-2015 01:48 PM
Rosemary So, I'm taking a class from FDSA this session that involves shaping. Not really my strong point, but I'm trying. This is the "highlight reel" of Ilka's session this morning. I'm trying to get her to put her hind feet on the lid to a popcorn tin (hey, it was handy) without luring her onto it, when something unexpected happens...

[youtube=Ilka]3jUuExCdE2s[/youtube]

Link to be viewed full screen here. https://youtu.be/3jUuExCdE2s
11-07-2015 03:11 PM
Rosemary The new AKC obedience regulations that go into effect on December 1st are available for free download from the AKC website. http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RO2999.pdf Once downloaded, you can print them out if you want. To get a hard copy mailed to you is $10.
10-29-2015 03:25 PM
Millent one video me and my miniature schnauzer BH obedience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI-a3xg20jo
10-29-2015 02:23 PM
Millent thank you
I am nervous all the tests, obedience when it was in their own rehearsal hall was easier to experiment with what happens ..

ours BH and ipo 1 obedience is just awful to watch ..
dog reacts by searching for prestressing worth all the time.
bh went successfully through the IPO1 but the score is not sufficient to result .. I would not let myself be myself through it: D
BH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RHUuJy4eEw

ipo1 51points
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWezJS3YVxk

the judge said that breathe in between, the more the dog reacts to my prestressing of the more went wrong.
Now winter work is in progress and looking at next summer if we do IPO1 results
10-29-2015 08:59 AM
doberkim Millent, I LOVE your boy!!! He has such a great attitude and you guys have a wonderful relationship!!! He's adorable!
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