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  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-29-2019 03:56 PM
triciakoontz Extremely windy day. Tons of people and activities at an outdoor wedding right next to us. You can see that the watchdog is at work as well as the nosework dog. This is common for Boon, and a lot of Dobermans Iíve watched. They donít go off duty just because they are at a trial.

Weíve had a lot of trouble since the beginning of nosework blowing by threshold hides and then I have to make sure we get back and cover threshold. Thatís very inefficient in giant search areas. Iíve been setting up threshold exercises I learned at a seminar where working teams got advice on the teamís most challenging problem.

In this search, Boon still blew past the threshold hide, but he noted it, did not charge out of that area to the bigger search area, and came back to the threshold hide WITHOUT me prompting him. His old pattern was to blow into the search at high speed right past threshold hides and keep charging forward.

Iím also working on NO FEET on ground level inaccessible hides, so you see me feeding super fast. This is really paying off reducing Boonís tendency, for some reason, to switch from nose target to paw activity at ground level hides.

Critique/comments welcome on any of my videos.

06-25-2019 09:27 PM
triciakoontz After a correct behavior is marked, in this case, nose at source, it doesn’t matter at all that she stops the behavior. I think of it like this: You are looking for your friend’s missing keys. You find them under a u,low on the couch and hold them up. Your friend says, “YES! THANK YOU!” You don’t keep looking for keys. When behavior is marked in any training, that ends the behavior. This was such a pretty search!

And I loved seeing Leo come right back to the search and nail it! It’s always so interesting to search off leash. Thanks for posting these.
06-25-2019 08:37 PM
Rosemary
Quote:
Originally Posted by triciakoontz View Post
1. Rosemary does beautiful handling and allows Lily to work at the start line. Lily stares straight back, she is clearly working odor at the start line. She looks up at Rosemary as a check in when released, then makes an almost straight line back to source. I would guess her very brief head check at non source items is some pooling odor from the wind but she clearly knows that and does not stop on her bee line to source. She keeps her nose at source until the marker word YES, which ends the behavior and only then does she turn to Rosemary. Rosemary feeds for position at source. Beautiful! As perfect as it gets.
Lily was on odor from the moment we walked out the door, thanks to the wind shifting. She wanted to head straight for it, which is why I was having to convince her to go to the start line. She briefly checks a few containers on the way out, because of the way the wind has been shifting, there are traces of odor everywhere. At 0:22, she shoves her nose into the container with the scent vessel. She freezes momentarily, and her ears pop up, which is a pretty sure sign that she is at source. I mark, and move in to reward her. Once I've marked the find, I don't particularly concern myself if she's come off the hide after the mark, but I do reward as close to source as possible. I'm also seeing if just giving her the "all done" cue (or "find another" if doing a multiple hide search) without touching her collar to remove her is the better option (it looks like it might be).

Leo is.... well, Leo. What can I say? She's fluffy.... She has the wind at her back coming to the start line. She gets distracted by something at 0:12 (the only surprise about that is that it was the only time during three searches). I somewhat miraculously managed to not call her back, but wait and see what she did. By 0:19, she has come back on her own, and is working again without any further cue, and I manage to get out of her way and let her search. She catches the scent where it has caught on the black bag, and knows it's close. At 0:24, she sticks her nose into the hot container, much like Lily did. Since this was a confidence building search, I didn't wait for her usual final indication on containers, which is a down, but instead mark the find and reward her. If this had been a blind search, I probably would have waited for the down.
06-25-2019 06:07 PM
triciakoontz 1. Rosemary does beautiful handling and allows Lily to work at the start line. Lily stares straight back, she is clearly working odor at the start line. She looks up at Rosemary as a check in when released, then makes an almost straight line back to source. I would guess her very brief head check at non source items is some pooling odor from the wind but she clearly knows that and does not stop on her bee line to source. She keeps her nose at source until the marker word YES, which ends the behavior and only then does she turn to Rosemary. Rosemary feeds for position at source. Beautiful! As perfect as it gets.
06-25-2019 02:05 PM
Rosemary Oh, wow, there was a live video of Penny Scott-Fox (one of the AKC contractors) and her NSDTR Blaze running a Detective Class search on the Friends of AKC Scent Work yesterday. It was aMAZing. Huge search area, indoors and out, and I swear, the final hide was in the ceiling, a good ten or more feet up. If my dogs and I ever reach 1/100th of being this good, I'll be thrilled.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/AKCS...3188204251611/
06-24-2019 10:39 AM
Rosemary I'm going to wait and see what other people think before I answer, LadyDi.
06-24-2019 10:18 AM
LadyDi Lilly ...touches find with her nose...........and then in a second step with encouragement from handler..... goes into a front end down.

Leo.....Leo huver's over the find....... while keeping a eye on handler .....and then automatically downs once he knows he has your attention or approval for his find.

So handler Rosemary .....using the same video's ....what was your first sign from each dog.......because that's the correct answer.......what did you see each dog do that was a sign they were on target for electing the correct object?
06-24-2019 09:49 AM
Rosemary
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyDi View Post
Hoping this is OK .........I begin scent class in September so I am just reading at this point.......so by my third chapter I have read of the importance of "Looking for a behavior change" .........so just for fun may we try to point out what we viewed as the behavior change within Rosemary's videos.......just for fun for us newbies ? Is this OK Ms. Rosemary?.......


For fun I just started reading the entire nosework thread over the weekend.......so interesting...........watching everyone go through there early stages of nose work training ..........I kept reading over and over......what did I learn today......TRUST MY DOGS NOSE !!!

Fun fun......love this stuff........
I posted these for a critique. Go for it.
06-24-2019 07:54 AM
LadyDi Hoping this is OK .........I begin scent class in September so I am just reading at this point.......so by my third chapter I have read of the importance of "Looking for a behavior change" .........so just for fun may we try to point out what we viewed as the behavior change within Rosemary's videos.......just for fun for us newbies ? Is this OK Ms. Rosemary?.......


For fun I just started reading the entire nosework thread over the weekend.......so interesting...........watching everyone go through there early stages of nose work training ..........I kept reading over and over......what did I learn today......TRUST MY DOGS NOSE !!!

Fun fun......love this stuff........
06-23-2019 10:57 PM
Rosemary So, I am going to post these videos here for a critique. Feel free to comment. I know what I think about them, and I know what the TA for the class I'm taking thinks about them.

For more information, it was 91 F, humidity was 62%, and the heat index was 103 F. Winds were variable, changing from west (at our back at the start line) to east (coming at us at the start line), to sometimes from the south (our right at the start line) and gusting upwards of 15 MPH. (In other words, a fairly typical summer day here in SETX.)

Since we were in our fully fenced back yard, we were searching off lead. The target odor was clove. The hot container had been cooking for at least an hour and a half by the time we ran this search, and this search set-up had sat for at least five minutes before we ran it.

Lily ran first.



Leo went second today.

06-21-2019 06:05 PM
triciakoontz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
Working on staying at source actually backfired a bit with Lily. She was SO sticky that taking her off the hide was not only difficult, it was a type of punishment.
I have learned from Michelle Pouliott (Karen Pryor Clicker Expo trainer) that ending any highly rewarded behavior (as well as ending training sessions) can be very punishing. I cringe at all the handlers who donít party after their dog finds the last hide and just end a session by standing there talking to the teacher or hustling off to the car while the dog deflates. ďWhat? WAIT!! I was working for food! What the heck just happened? What did I do wrong?Ē Iíve observed that this is an especially big deal and knows work and I think itís because the dogs get so intensely involved because they are using a primary sense. That makes it doubly punishing when you quit gratuitously.

This punishment transfers backwards to what just happened before it. Thatís why I party and feed all the way to my car. If Iím talking to the teacher in a class at the end of my turn, Iím feeding my dog as my primary job. Just observe at a trial how many dogs show great disappointment at the end of searching when no party is started.

When you teach staying at source, you build duration AND a break out, just like any other behavior. The release gets paid too. And the cue to ďfind moreĒ becomes a reward. Itís just like training other behavior, there is nothing different just because a dog is following his nose, although some teachers would have you believe itís magic stuff.
06-21-2019 02:17 PM
LadyDi
Quote:
Originally Posted by triciakoontz View Post
Thanks Rosemary! Iíd like to remind anyone reading this thread, this particular discussion is all information learned at seminars. I am not the creator of the info but I have benefited from it. As always, take it or leave it. If you take it and it doesnít work for your team, obviously, throw it out. It fit well into my framework of understanding and training, meshed beautifully with everything Iíve learned about back-chaining in a 16 hour seminar with (amazing!) Michelle Poulliot plus a great back-chaining Fenzi class.

Hmmmm, donít know what happened to the video link; heaven knows Iím no pro at that! Here it is again.


Nice Introduction !
And excellent video..........slo mo and everything.........great work Tricia.
06-21-2019 02:10 PM
Rosemary Working on staying at source actually backfired a bit with Lily. She was SO sticky that taking her off the hide was not only difficult, it was a type of punishment.
06-21-2019 01:53 PM
ECIN Thanks for re- posting the video ! I love these! I have the highest respect to all that do this sport ! Too cool !

Now wife. Is saying - Ken ! There are storms getting close and I have. To mow the dog lot. 😩 again

Great work by all

Doc
06-21-2019 01:23 PM
Rosemary
Quote:
Originally Posted by triciakoontz View Post
Thanks Rosemary!

Hmmmm, donít know what happened to the video link. Here it is again.

You probably have it set to Private. It has to be set to either Unlisted or Public in order to share it.
06-21-2019 01:21 PM
triciakoontz Thanks Rosemary! I’d like to remind anyone reading this thread, this particular discussion is all information learned at seminars. I am not the creator of the info but I have benefited from it. As always, take it or leave it. If you take it and it doesn’t work for your team, obviously, throw it out. It fit well into my framework of understanding and training, meshed beautifully with everything I’ve learned about back-chaining in a 16 hour seminar with (amazing!) Michelle Poulliot plus a great back-chaining Fenzi class.

Hmmmm, don’t know what happened to the video link; heaven knows I’m no pro at that! Here it is again.

06-21-2019 01:16 PM
ECIN I have some time. this afternoon and was going to watch the video - it says error - and can not watch it ó. Am I doing something wrong ?
06-21-2019 11:59 AM
Rosemary Rule number 1 in critiquing a video is to make sure that the person posting the video is asking for, or at least open to hearing, a critique. They might be perfectly happy with how they and/or their dog performed, and/or they might have already gotten a critique from a person the know and trust, and are posting their video simply to share it. I know that I usually fall into the latter category, since I'm in an online class with a fantastic TA helping me out, and have posted some videos here that both she and I agree that, while not perfect, are still very good performances. Other than that, Denise Fenzi wrote a great blog about how to critique a video. https://denisefenzi.com/2014/07/givi...ideo-critique/
06-21-2019 10:19 AM
LadyDi
Quote:
Originally Posted by triciakoontz View Post
Thanks for your words of understanding.

Huh. Tennis ball?? I was a judgeís steward at an AKC trial last fall and a tennis ball was used as the distractor, placed right in the open, tucked up beside a CPR dummyís head. The dummy was lying on a cot and many of the medium to large dogs were interested in the ball. No lie. 2 dogs could not resist the ball, grabbed it, and completely stopped searching!

I have a hard time imagining why any teacher would use an obvious toy to begin teaching dogs scent work. Maybe you could find out more info? Iím curious to learn the thinking behind it.

In a new thread, Iíll post an easy exercise for teaching a dog to stick at source.
Yeah......glad I asked....I snuck into an existing class and was snooping trying to get an edge !!!! LOL
So I will research further ...........see!!!! Hoss says thank you ..you saved me from my crazy Mom !!! LOL
06-21-2019 09:42 AM
triciakoontz Thanks for your words of understanding.

Huh. Tennis ball?? I was a judge’s steward at an AKC trial last fall and a tennis ball was used as the distractor, placed right in the open, tucked up beside a CPR dummy’s head. The dummy was lying on a cot and many of the medium to large dogs were interested in the ball. No lie. 2 dogs could not resist the ball, grabbed it, and completely stopped searching!

I have a hard time imagining why any teacher would use an obvious toy to begin teaching dogs scent work. Maybe you could find out more info? I’m curious to learn the thinking behind it.

In a new thread, I’ll post an easy exercise for teaching a dog to stick at source.
06-21-2019 08:51 AM
LadyDi Tricia ....so glad to see your post today because I thought Hoss and I had lost you forever!! Hoss and I need you!!!
You have helped us so much .........and then this happened.
Let me be the first to say .....I am sorry .................and I am thankful you are still communicating with OUR group.
We have all written to one another for so long......and you are part of our crazy doberman family.
Hoss and I are hoping to get some tips from you as Hoss starts intro to scent class 9/1...............it appears they start off using green tennis balls and boxes.
Pairing up the ball and a treat..... that they search for in one designated box (amoungst many empty boxes)
What games can I do with Hoss now that teaches him to Stick at source once he elects the correct box .............would like to avoid starting any bad habits from the get go...........do tell.......even if you want to do this through a new thread ..........I am asking for your help and advise........please and a real big thank you.
You have a great heart and willingness to help others......not to mention you are a FANTASTIC teacher.
06-21-2019 08:15 AM
triciakoontz You know, Iíve read this thread many times and I fail to see any hint of anything negative. Itís very obvious Iím simply comparing a LARGE NUMBER OF DOG OBSERVATIONS to what Iíve learned in seminars. By the way, 4 trials as a timer = 144 team runs observed + however many runs were in the thread here on DT.

Many of the words I used are almost exact quotes from seminar teachers . No one got offended in class by those observations, at least not publicly. I donít know what they may have felt inside but no one left; all participated enthusiastically in exercises, including me after my notices. One awesome notice came from my working partner and it was awesome for correcting a bugaboo in our trial work.

If you post a personal video in the working dog forum, it seems like a given that you might get comments on your teamís performance. My comments were completely confined to observation based on behavioral science and my statements about ďaccidental trainingĒ of a behavior chain that might cause problems were obviously about all of the 144+ runs I had observed; there was nothing that implied insult to anyone in particular.

Personally, Iíd be thrilled if someone noticed something in my comments or video that I perhaps hadnít seen before and gave me some info to think about. Iíd be happy to have this video I posted here critiqued. I might learn something new to ponder and see if works for my team. I certainly expect critique if I put it up for all to see. Just like any words I post here on DT: subject to critique and comment.

Iíd be grateful for any potentially helpful notice, especially if it came from a person I had seen, over the years, post many comments based on sound theory and practice, offered in a sincere caring way. Maybe if you are sensitive to those kinds of comments, you might state, ďIím not looking for feedback on this video.Ē
06-20-2019 12:10 PM
ECIN TK. I think you should start a tread on free style dance ó- with plenty of videos !!!!!


doc
06-18-2019 09:03 AM
MeadowCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by triciakoontz View Post
Holy cow! Iím so surprised. And really sorry that my post offended anyone.

....

Like any training observation or suggestion, you are free to take it or leave it. ...

Again, I offer things Iíve learned in a very open kind spirit. Iím a certified advanced freestyle teacher and I see that my post was framed just like I would teach a class. Of course, you are not my students and didnít ask for my help, so, Iím really really sorry that the info came across as criticism. I wonít get into ďteacher modeĒ again, donít worry.
(Edits mine)

Like I said, since tone is hard online, I didn't think you meant it the way it maybe came across a little. Thanks for clarifying and this post is appreciated.

I'm always happy to discuss different training ideas and methods, and I certainly don't want you or anyone to feel that we shouldn't do that. It's just nicer if it's a little more "abstract". Hopefully that makes sense.
06-18-2019 06:06 AM
LadyDi Bummer Tricia.....I am starting a beginners scent class in September ............I love your posts and suggestions......and the take it or leave it attitude........IMO your heart is always in the right place.......always has come across that way to me ....I will really miss your comments.......maybe once I start class you will offer comments because I will specifically ask for them assuming you are still hanging out with us and monitoring posts ..........so sad this happened because in a short time I have learned a lot from you.....just through simple posts.........
Dang it !
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