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post #26 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KgDDS View Post
.........I wish he wasn't growing so fast, he is having more and more trouble sitting on my lap

Love from Leon!
Are you sure he's a doberman??? LOL Lap-sitting is something dobermans NEVER grow out of. Even when they've grown out of it, so to speak. LOL

Welcome; hang around with your dobe guy; join in the conversation; don't forget the pictures!!
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post #27 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 01:00 PM
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My comments in blue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KgDDS View Post
Thank you all for the welcomes!

You *are* welcome here.

Please ignore those who do try to stir the pot, like HerMewMew--that poster has a history of doing that on various threads.




I honestly don't know if they did genetic testing on the sire/dam. I have never seen an all black before him. I went there just looking for a dobe for their personality and companionship. Of course he will only be our spoiled pet. I'm just a regular person with a dog haha.

Well, if you don't know, then the answer is in all probability a resounding "NO." That matters, sorry, because you will bond harder than you can believe with a Doberman puppy, and if, heaven forbid, genetic health issues crop up...well, it will be heartbreaking.

I'm just a regular person, too, with four dogs. Four rescued dogs, two of them Dobermans--have had rescued, flawed Dobermans since the early eighties, and have never had one well-bred one, so no stuck up pick-apart-someone-else's-dog attitude, here





Thanks for the comment, and I definitely agree. I took all those comments of people just having a sense of humor. Of course I wouldn't go posting or telling people any "made-up" names to refer to an all black dobe.

Good to hear



Thank you for the comment and information. Fortunately, while his color display is not commonly seen, I couldn't find any scientific evidence whatsoever that his appearance will predispose him to any additional health problems seen in all other dobes. I do have his pedigree chart and there is no evidence of any crossed lines. I would definitely not want to fall in love with a dog that would develop an abnormal personality or health concerns, simply because of an unique color. All of his vet visits have been excellent and he is a great little pup.

Sorry, guess I wasn't clear--I was in no way commenting about genetic defects that might be related to his *color.* This is just "Doberman stuff," and the BYBs do not do their due diligence to stack the odds in the favor of healthy puppies.

What I meant was the PDK4 genetic mutation that is one of the markers for Doberman Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM), an always-fatal heart disease that is claiming 50% of Dobermans, many at a very young age.

What I meant was doing holtors/echoes to make sure that the parents of the litter did not display DCM symptoms at the time of breeding--a very important measure to help prevent passing this hideous disease to the next generation.

Thyroid disease won't show up in a pup this young, but it would be good to know if your pup's parents have it. Same with eye disease--the reason for the CERF test.

Do you know the vWD (von Willebrand's) status of the parents of your pup?

Look, I know this is a lot to throw at you, and I (nor anyone else) wants to overwhelm you and send ya runnin', but truly, some of the more vocal novices on this forum are the real troublemakers--other folks simply want to help guide you thru puppyhood and educate you on the very real issues you may face in future.

We certainly pray you have many happy healthy years with your lil' guy, but many of us here have NOT been so lucky and we try our best to help others avoid some of the heartache we've faced.


By no means did I start this thread with his pictures to start any debate or stir any pot. I wanted to share my passion for the doberman breed with others who feel the same. I have loved looking through the threads and reading peoples stories. There is a lot of great information on this site and I appreciate everyone who shares (especially the great tutorials on posting, as we started doing it ourselves yesterday to save a 30min car ride each week).

I don't see anyone debating the *color* of your pup, which is what you say you were concerned about. Just trying to educate you about possible health issues since he likely came from a less-than-ideal breeding program.

We do hope you stick around--we need more caring, educated Doberman lovers in this ol' world.


As long as no one gets too worked up I will keep sharing pics as he grows. I wish he wasn't growing so fast, he is having more and more trouble sitting on my lap

Love from Leon!
Look forward to more pics of Leon, as he grows




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post #28 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KgDDS View Post
Fortunately, while his color display is not commonly seen, I couldn't find any scientific evidence whatsoever that his appearance will predispose him to any additional health problems seen in all other dobes.
Hi and welcome with your new puppy.

The only problem currently with his color may be the melanism itself. But since ethical breeders (those who health test and research pedigrees to find good matings) would not be trying to re-create the all-black look, it will be the BYBs who breed for this coat color. We know that BYBs are called BYBs because:
1) they have a history of latching onto something different to use as a selling point
...a) size - King and Warlock dobes
...b) color - fawns and blues as "rare" colors
...c) albino - rare "white" dobes (come with a heavy load of health issues due to the small gene pool they used and the associated genetic issues with albinism)
2) tend to throw 2 dogs together because of availability or low stud fees
3) breed too much and do not follow their pups into forever homes
4) other non-ethical practices, etc.

What I am saying is that the all-black dobe would only be perpetuated by people who do not have the breed's interest at heart and would likely fix the color along with a bunch of genetic health issues because they aren't looking for them in pedigrees and are not testing for them when they can, and if they do, they might not be breeding to remove them.

Lovely puppy and again, welcome to DT!


the boys (rip): Cato, Emerald's Black Onyx, Emerald's Black Quartz
Owned by the girls: Jill (kelpie) and Lana.

Last edited by vivienne00; 10-23-2011 at 01:07 PM.
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post #29 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 01:55 PM
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Put me on the "didn't know that all-black Dobermans could happen" team! He does have a striking look!

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post #30 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 02:16 PM
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I didn't even know that all black Dobermans exhisted. He is ADORABLE!!!! Keep us updated with pictures!!!


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post #31 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerGunlock View Post
Put me on the "didn't know that all-black Dobermans could happen" team! He does have a striking look!
Sorry, I challenge the fact this is a purebred doberman.

It is a known fact that a litter of puppies can have multiple sires. The breeder may think this is sired by a doberman but may in fact have not been.

It looks questionable to me but a DNA would prove beyond a doubt.


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post #32 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 04:08 PM
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Hi and welcome to the forum from PA. Your puppy is adorable. Please stick around and learn from the wealth of information and knowledge about Dobermans on this forum. Like others have said, your puppy is innocent and is in your care now to do everything you can to give him a loving, forever home. As you read more and more on this forum, you will come to learn why the people are here are so passionate about BYB and "greeders" and what they are doing to this noble breed. Hope to see more pictures of your boy.
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post #33 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 05:00 PM
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Hi and welcome to DT from Florida. Please continue to post pictures. I would love to see your puppy growing up.
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post #34 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 06:18 PM
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he is cute... best of luck !!!!



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post #35 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaineK9 View Post
Sorry, I challenge the fact this is a purebred doberman.

It is a known fact that a litter of puppies can have multiple sires. The breeder may think this is sired by a doberman but may in fact have not been.

It looks questionable to me but a DNA would prove beyond a doubt.


If it is indeed melanism, he could be purebred. If panthers = melanistic leopards (and there are melanistic tigers), then a black Doberman could be a melanistic Doberman.

However, it might not be the first showing in the line.

Really, I'm not a scientist and did not personally want to debate. I just wanted to be another welcoming voice to a member that had the potential to be driven away based on the puppy's source.

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post #36 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 09:52 PM
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Sorry KgDDS….
“So it’s apparent that RedFawnRising and EmilyB are both my Nemesis” Respectfully, & since they called me out personally “again” I will have to answer.

@RedFawnRising
“I’ve not seen one person here “pick apart some ones Dobbie”

I was actually responding to KgDDS his quote…
“A little hesitant to even post a picture of him in fear of reader’s negativity (after doing some reading about other posts on solid blacks)… but hopefully that won’t happen.”

Humm… I wonder why anyone would feel this way? But I guess this never happens…

@KgDDS it would seam that you and I are the only two members who notice this.

Not to pair you with me because I don’t want you to be “Shunned by association.”
I was just hoping that you would be strong enough to realize that some people on this site “would not” throw up the red flags at you for owning an all black Doberman or purchasing one. I loved the pictures and think he’s unique with his…
“stealthy-ninja-ness”

@KgDDS
“The unethical breeders” I support “RedFawnRising” would be referring too I guess would be (either your breeder which I said nothing in support of or) “Backbone Kennel” from Argentina, since this was the first time and only time I apparently, “supported an unethical breeder."

There was a thread asking if anyone knew about them, you can read it if you’d like.
Go to my “Profile” and click on “ststistics” then on “Find all posts by HerMewMew” page two you will see the “Anyone here knows Backbone Kennel”

I am thinking this is also what she is basing “Stir the pot” as well.
Because I don’t agree with most of the other members on that thread, that Backbone Kennel’s dogs are unworthy of their titles.

I gave a brief (positive) statement that my Kira came from Argentina and one of the dogs listed is her Grandfather…

Apparently EmilyB accuses me of “Pimping your dogs (my dogs) ancestors.”
And RedFawnRising’s first response was, “Um, not to be snotty or anything….” Bla bla bla.

As far as me being, “hideously insensitive to those of us who’ve held beloved young Dobermans as they took their last breath.” As quoted from RedFawnRising…
I have no clue what she’s talking about. I guess she just needed a dramatic closing sentence to her personal attack of “FICTION.”
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post #37 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 11:09 PM
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@HerMewMew - We pick apart breeders and people who defend byb's, not dogs. It's not the dog's fault if they are brought into the world by a byb/greeder/whatever so why would we blame them? However, if somebody supports a byb even if they know better then yes, sometimes we pick them apart too. However, never the poor, innocent dog.



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post #38 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 11:42 PM
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"We" would be great if it were everyone who thought like you! I completly agree!

The first post was quick to point out, all black is a fault and not standerd, which I am sure the owner is aware. Followed up by someone mentioning, challenge the fact of being a purebred and I "think" I saw the word mutant on the first page.

Again I would point out that the pup came from a normal colored mother and father and two all black ones showed up. I don't know, is this supporting a bad breeder because they were purchased, or should the breeder have killed them when they were born or should the new proud member who was kind enough to post his photos... not have bought him???

I'm positive the OP wasn't asking for advise or supporting the reproduction of all black Doberman puppies. He was just posting his pup and the cute-ness of his blackness for us all to enjoy. Yes advise is great and that's what "we" are all here for and love about this site.

Having said that, why would any new member fear posting a photo if "we" were all the kind people your speaking of?

"Constructive Criticism?"

"We" are not all the same but, I must be the only one to notice.

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post #39 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-23-2011, 11:49 PM
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Your pup is beautiful! The black makes him look so sleek - my first thought was, in fact, panther-like. Good luck with him! I'll be interested to see how his coloring continues through growth.

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post #40 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 12:03 AM
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@HerMewMew -
First, when I say "we" I mean these people that you so helpfully grouped together for me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by HerMewMew View Post
Of course not all of us here on this forum agree with the stuck up "Doberman Masters of the Universe" when picking apart someones Dobbie! Don't be afraid to post anything, you'd be suprised at how versiatle the "other members" can be!
As for the rest of what you've said...

I don't see why you think you're the only one to notice. People complain about how other members on this forum act all the time. The OP posted pictures of an all black puppy and, if I'm correct, almost everybody reacted positively in regards to the puppy (including the members that the OP was a little worried about). Yes, the pup's breeding and pedigree were discussed but not in order to rip apart the puppy but because some people, including me, had NEVER seen or heard of an all black Doberman before. Dobebug was the first person to mention "fault" and was not doing so in order to pick apart the puppy but in order to educate not only the OP but the other members of this board (see quote below and pay attention to the bolded part). Dobebug's response explained why this puppy lacked rust markings (melanisim) and that it happens and, with some puppies, they lighten a bit with age. I'm glad it was posted because, honestly, I didn't know that an all black doberman was possible. Next, the puppy wasn't called a "mutant" but his coat color was called a "mutation" because that's simply what it is. That post was made because and a member was curious about the mutation (also below). I don't blame Sinister for asking since other coat mutations can and do lead to health problems. As for the challenge of whether this dog is a purebred or not, of course that's going to happen! MY first thought was, "that can't be a purebred doberman!" so I'm sure other people thought that too. However, that makes no difference to me when it comes to the fact that the puppy is simply adorable and we are happy to have another member become a part of the community here.

You're looking battles where battles shouldn't be. Nobody is attacking the OP or starting any sort of conflict on this thread except you who is making accusations and statements that are untrue (see, "mutant").

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug
Very cute pictures--and welcome to DT.

If you've been reading other information about "all black" Dobermans you probably have learned already that they are a fault in that the puppy does not show the markings as required by the standard. Too much melanisim (the pigment that controls the color). He may lighten up some with age--you can see that the black on his muzzle is different than the black on his forehead. A good many puppies who have a lot of black on their muzzles and feet do lighten in time.

Doesn't make much difference--he's yours, he's cute--the coloring isn't correct but it's explainable.

Enjoy your new guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinister
Very cute little guy.
I wonder what causes the mutation & how it affects him (negative/neutral). Interesting! Stick around, I'd love to see him mature.



No dog is at fault for being born into this world.

Last edited by PatchworkRobot; 10-24-2011 at 12:20 AM. Reason: Added quotes
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post #41 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by HerMewMew View Post
"We" would be great if it were everyone who thought like you! I completly agree!

The first post was quick to point out, all black is a fault and not standerd, which I am sure the owner is aware. Followed up by someone mentioning, challenge the fact of being a purebred and I "think" I saw the word mutant on the first page.

Again I would point out that the pup came from a normal colored mother and father and two all black ones showed up. I don't know, is this supporting a bad breeder because they were purchased, or should the breeder have killed them when they were born or should the new proud member who was kind enough to post his photos... not have bought him???

I'm positive the OP wasn't asking for advise or supporting the reproduction of all black Doberman puppies. He was just posting his pup and the cute-ness of his blackness for us all to enjoy. Yes advise is great and that's what "we" are all here for and love about this site.

Having said that, why would any new member fear posting a photo if "we" were all the kind people your speaking of?

"Constructive Criticism?"

"We" are not all the same but, I must be the only one to notice.
I'm afraid the OP is supporting that by purposely purchasing a Doberman with a major fault. There's a major difference between rescue/adoption of one versus lining the pockets of someone who knows that people will think solid black Dobermans are super cool and rare and want to purchase them. I guarantee you that the OP will be asked an endless amount of times throughout her Doberman's life "wow that black doberman is so cool, where did you get it???, i want one!"

I seriously hope the breeder sold these puppies with spay/neuter contracts. I highly doubt that happened though. I've personally never heard of an ethical breeder producing solid black Dobermans. Most try to stay away from blues and fawns as it is. I was just hoping for the OP's sake that they did their research and purchased a puppy from a breeder who cares about the new owner and their new puppy by genetically health testing their breeding stock. Unfortunately that was not the case here.

I really agree with this information from Rhapsody Doberman's website:

"Some people feel that it doesn’t matter which breeder they deal with because all they want is a nice pet. Some people feel that it doesn’t matter if the parents of the dogs have any conformation, obedience, working or temperament titles but it DOES matter.

A breeder who doesn't health test, temperament test and title their dogs is basically saying that a buyer does NOT deserve any of this. And it's extremely insulting that a breeder would try to satisfy a person with something that requires less knowledge, less effort, less commitment, and less cost per unit. Don't settle for that!

Never settle for less because of time, money or other considerations. Your pup may be a part of your family for ten to fifteen years and compromises now will affect you and your puppy for a long time to come.

If you are not able to find what you want immediately, a few weeks or months of patience will generally be rewarding. In fact, getting a pup from some of the better litters usually requires a wait - as many are sold in advance.

So educate yourself, look around and see what is available by attending local shows. Talk with various breeders about required and expected standards and be wary of faults that are bred into the breed by the "backyard" breeders."

Last edited by ZeldaRules; 10-24-2011 at 12:28 AM.
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post #42 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 01:01 AM
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Hello and welcome to the forum.......very adorable puppy you have there...


regarding the issues or faultiness....I have no comment for I am just a noobie here too and just want to learn for some good breeders and advisers here.I may have posted some thread before that made some confusion in other members and doberman guru's and I myself but I never intended to promote any BYB on that specific thread and I already said my sorry for being novice and uneducated.I am just a human being and not perfect.


for kgDDS:

Thank you once again for joining the forum ,posting some photos of your puppy and for sharing us the knowledge that Black doberman do exist (though it does not pass the standard)..Just love your puppy with all your heart..It's not the puppy's fault why he looks like that "black doberman"....We are just glad that you still kept your puppy (did not abandoned him despite his color) and cared for him Good luck on your journey with your Black doberman puppy...Hope all is well for both of you.


p.s. Sorry for my bad English...I am not from america..I am from Philippines so please bare with me.

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post #43 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GingerGunlock View Post
Put me on the "didn't know that all-black Dobermans could happen" team! He does have a striking look!

Add me to that list as well! What a handsome boy!!! Welcome to DT! I'm new myself
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post #44 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 09:38 AM
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PatchworkRobot: It's nice that you think no ones starting any sort of conflict... except me because I guess being called out by name is not starting a conflict? OKAY...

I can only conclude that the members who didn't like comment about the Op not being afraid to post due to the negitive-ness of a few "Stuck up Doberman Masters of the Universe" consider themselves one of them... However I never called anyone out... I was just worried about the hypothetical "them" attacking the OP as well, and a few of us would really like to see the new member and the all black Dobie stay... However I guess they would rather focus on me instead, which is fine I'm a big girl too and really appreciate this site so I won't be going.

Actually I said "I think I saw the word mutant on the first page." so I don't know which statement I said was untrue?

Again I would ask was it the breeders fault for not killing the "all black puppy" when he was born? Thus not allowing him to strive for a happy loving life? I saw no place where anyone was promoting the name of the said breeder (EVEN WHEN ASKED MULYIPLE TIMES) or anywhere that's noted it was done on purpose or would be repeated on purpose or even glorified... Even five star breeders will have a less then perfect puppy at times but still sell them, with knowledge they should not be bred.

In fact I just read a heartbreaking story on this site where a puppy which was "born different" and suggested by a vet to be put down, later was discovered he couldn't hear was the love of the owners life... The breeder kept him for her and her family "flawed" and all, loved even more because of his uniqueness... If the def puppy had been out in public people would have inquired about him as well... Being interested when seeing something different does not mean people will start "reproducing with flaws" it just means answering questions when asked and educating them....

With that said I wonder how many Blues and Fawns should be destroyed? Where Dobermans were originated from "Germany" those two colors are a disqualified, fault, not recognized or better yet not allowed to show or be registered. I am sure everyone’s aware that this is a mutation as well and causes or could cause health problems; ie. coat/skin problems which is a problem and a mutation. Furthermore the OP's black Doberman is not the first one I have seen, guess who grew up in Germany? I did… By no means does this mean I am “all knowledgeable” however this does mean there’s more then one and the OP’s or his breeder is not the start of the downward spiral of Doberman Pinschers.

The OP bought the puppy yes but, I am guessing no one has ever bought a runt or something different because it won your heart? Thus supporting an act of god, not necessary a back yard breeder, "maliciously."

As far as the health concerns and testing on all of our Dobermans, I agree all of us need to be educated with them! Keeping the AKC standards correct and preserving the linage of the breed we all love is absolutely important. However educating members in less then a helpful way will only lead to people leaving this site and therefore missing excellent knowledge to be learned and passed along... Just saying.

And as far as me being "hideously insensitive" as accused, I must get this posted because I am driving up to Jacksonville to pick up my mother. I was hoping to stop by with Kira Hime (my Dobie) and meet Zues and Apollo in St. Augustine; the two "19 month old pups" who are having a hard time with their heath concerns. I understand the family is having a delicate time and was hoping a play date would cheer them up. If anyone hasn’t read the thread about them, please take time to read up on it...
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post #45 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by HerMewMew View Post
PatchworkRobot: It's nice that you think no ones starting any sort of conflict... except me because I guess being called out by name is not starting a conflict? OKAY...

I can only conclude that the members who didn't like comment about the Op not being afraid to post due to the negitive-ness of a few "Stuck up Doberman Masters of the Universe" consider themselves one of them... However I never called anyone out... I was just worried about the hypothetical "them" attacking the OP as well, and a few of us would really like to see the new member and the all black Dobie stay... However I guess they would rather focus on me instead, which is fine I'm a big girl too and really appreciate this site so I won't be going.

Actually I said "I think I saw the word mutant on the first page." so I don't know which statement I said was untrue?

Again I would ask was it the breeders fault for not killing the "all black puppy" when he was born? Thus not allowing him to strive for a happy loving life? I saw no place where anyone was promoting the name of the said breeder (EVEN WHEN ASKED MULYIPLE TIMES) or anywhere that's noted it was done on purpose or would be repeated on purpose or even glorified... Even five star breeders will have a less then perfect puppy at times but still sell them, with knowledge they should not be bred.

In fact I just read a heartbreaking story on this site where a puppy which was "born different" and suggested by a vet to be put down, later was discovered he couldn't hear was the love of the owners life... The breeder kept him for her and her family "flawed" and all, loved even more because of his uniqueness... If the def puppy had been out in public people would have inquired about him as well... Being interested when seeing something different does not mean people will start "reproducing with flaws" it just means answering questions when asked and educating them....

With that said I wonder how many Blues and Fawns should be destroyed? Where Dobermans were originated from "Germany" those two colors are a disqualified, fault, not recognized or better yet not allowed to show or be registered. I am sure everyone’s aware that this is a mutation as well and causes or could cause health problems; ie. coat/skin problems which is a problem and a mutation. Furthermore the OP's black Doberman is not the first one I have seen, guess who grew up in Germany? I did… By no means does this mean I am “all knowledgeable” however this does mean there’s more then one and the OP’s or his breeder is not the start of the downward spiral of Doberman Pinschers.

The OP bought the puppy yes but, I am guessing no one has ever bought a runt or something different because it won your heart? Thus supporting an act of god, not necessary a back yard breeder, "maliciously."

As far as the health concerns and testing on all of our Dobermans, I agree all of us need to be educated with them! Keeping the AKC standards correct and preserving the linage of the breed we all love is absolutely important. However educating members in less then a helpful way will only lead to people leaving this site and therefore missing excellent knowledge to be learned and passed along... Just saying.

And as far as me being "hideously insensitive" as accused, I must get this posted because I am driving up to Jacksonville to pick up my mother. I was hoping to stop by with Kira Hime (my Dobie) and meet Zues and Apollo in St. Augustine; the two "19 month old pups" who are having a hard time with their heath concerns. I understand the family is having a delicate time and was hoping a play date would cheer them up. If anyone hasn’t read the thread about them, please take time to read up on it...

OMG, STFU already and quit hijacking the OP's thread further.

And those two very ill and troubled pups are from the BYB you were once so highly praising, but went and tried to CYA backpedal on the other thread.

Just a suggestion, take it or leave it--listen and learn more, talk less.




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post #46 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 10:09 AM
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Childish...
You call someone out then "STFU"?
Post a "conversation" and expect no responce?

No backpedal, and no highly praising, just a responce for one I interacted with personally... Not in the computer world.
But I guess your perfect...

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post #47 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 11:02 AM
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HerMewMew, I know you haven't been responding to my posts and I hope you understand my points, but I do want to make one thing very clear. You keep insinuating that those of us challenging the ethics of the breeder in this situation would rather see puppies born with faults be destroyed because they don't matter.

I, personally, just want to see these puppies be sold with spay/neuter contracts and never be bred. That is ALL. I don't want to see any puppy culled like in the old days due to a fault. I volunteer with Doberman and German Shepherd rescue. MANY DT members are rescue volunteers and WE are the ones SAVING, fostering, and giving TONS of faulty and non-standard Dobermans a second chance at a good life. Please do not think we are attacking the OP personally. There are good reasons why DT members will not be quiet on these issues, if more newcomers would read the manifesto before posting maybe they would understand.
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post #48 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerMewMew View Post
Again I would ask was it the breeders fault for not killing the "all black puppy" when he was born? ..
after the fact is a bit late....so just who is responsible/at fault for putting two untested (health & DNA) dogs together...that it appears were both on the property weeks after whelping....if not the breeders...then who?

who should be responsible for DNA testing a pup that throws a very rare coat colour to ensure that what they sell to someone is what they are claiming on paper it is? ....If not the breeders...then who?

The OP should be able to expect and demand that basic level of accountabiity from the people who brought that pup into the world...who are responsible for his life.

How will the OP know that they are due that level of integrity unless it is explained?

He's a beautiful dog....but the OP deserves to get better accountability from his breeders. After all, they paid good money for him.

My first rescue dobe was x GSD...did I love him any less?....was he any less of a dog? No! Should he have been bred in the first place? No. Were his breeders bettering the breed? No. Did his breeders try to do the best thing for him for his total life? No.
...but he was still an awesome dog and once he was here...he deserved every ounce of love, dedication and care that all animals should get...purebred and mutts alike.

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post #49 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KgDDS View Post

As long as no one gets too worked up I will keep sharing pics as he grows. I wish he wasn't growing so fast, he is having more and more trouble sitting on my lap

Love from Leon!
People don't allow a doberman to sit on their lap, dobermans allow people to share the couch, sometimes, and as long as you don't mind being under them. lol

Welcome and best of luck with your pup.
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post #50 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-24-2011, 10:17 PM
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KgDDs please forgive my rudeness of not welcoming you to the forum last night. A very warm welcome to you and your stunning boy Leon. I can confidently say on behalf of everyone that we all hope you stay and share lots more pictures of him and stories of his antics as he grows up. He is a good looking boy!

This forum was a HUGE source of information and support to me as I battled CAH with my boy Zillah...and he came from a very less than stellar breeder too. (despite having champions all through his pedigree). (via the RSPCA) Zillah was the love of my life and it certainly wasn't his fault he had such a [email protected] hand dealt him in his life...and it was strident advocates of ethical breeding who were the greatest support to him and I in lieu of breeder support. It's important to know that we all love the dog so much that we will advocate strongly in it's and the breed's best interests passionately. Calling out bad breeding practices isn't dissing the dog...it's dissing the breeding ethics of the breeders and any attempts (IMHO) to divert it or claim it is about the dog is just further shirking and avoidance in taking responsibility for the dog's life and the human actions that have affected it.

....oh bum! ...I came back to this thread to welcome you properly and instead I've stepped back up onto the soapbox and ranted again...I sincerely apologise for that...but I'm angry my beautiful boy had to go through what he did and I lay the responsibility for all his problems on the shoulders of the very irresponsible (and absent) breeder who brought him into this world.

Once again Welcome! ...and hope you can understand why we say what we say and that it comes from love of these amazing dogs and a desire to see they get the best life possible; your beautiful Leon included.

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