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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-01-2020, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
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New Member in Ohio

Hello All,

Cleveland Ohio area, joining to learn even more about these wonderful dogs.
We just lost our 9 1/2 year old Black and Tan girl on 5/23. Obviously, we are devastated but starting to think about a new puppy in the future (maybe late summer early fall). She was our third Dobie so we are familiar with the breed but were thinking about maybe getting a pup with a little more training before coming to us this time.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-01-2020, 03:51 PM
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Welcome. We are happy to have you, and happy to help you find a reputable breeder. Where are you?
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-01-2020, 03:54 PM
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Welcome from Florida

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-01-2020, 06:36 PM
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Welcome to DT from Colorado!

I guess you're talking about an older pup? How old were you thinking? Were you thinking of adopting an older dog or going with a breeder rehome or ??
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-01-2020, 07:19 PM
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Hi joseph! And welcome from the Pacific NW.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-01-2020, 07:36 PM
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Another welcome from Colorado!

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-02-2020, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone! We are in the Cleveland Ohio area. We weren't thinking of an older dog or a re homed puppy. I guess I wasn't totally clear on our thoughts or maybe some of my assumptions are wrong.
Our first 3 dogs were obtained from back yard breeders. They were great dogs but we were thinking about getting a dog from a better breeder this time. We are not interested in showing or anything like that, just a good family dog. I have seen websites of some breeders that seem to offer some advanced training for puppies, maybe that is mistaken on our part.
On another question, what are some thoughts on European vs. American bloodlines? I know European are typically a bit larger but is there anything else? Our dogs have been American.
Thanks, all!
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-02-2020, 10:38 AM
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European dogs really aren't supposed to be a whole lot larger than North American dogs. This is a comparison of the FCI (European) standard and the AKC standard.

FCI SIZE AND WEIGHT:
Height at the withers: Males: 68 – 72 cm. (26.77 – 28.35 in.)
Females: 63 – 68 cm. (24.80 – 26.77 in)
Medium size desirable.
Weight: Males: about 40 – 45 kg. (88.18 – 99.21 lb.)
Females: about 32 – 35 kg. (70.55 – 77.16 lb.)

AKC Size, Proportion, Substance:
Height at the withers: Dogs 26 to 28 inches, ideal about 27˝ inches; Bitches 24 to 26 inches, ideal about 25˝ inches. The height, measured vertically from the ground to the highest point of the withers, equaling the length measured horizontally from the forechest to the rear projection of the upper thigh. Length of head, neck and legs in proportion to length and depth of body.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-02-2020, 11:43 AM
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Mirabel Dobermans in Ohio has puppies although I'm not sure if anything is available. There are a good number of breeders in the Midwest, many of which are on the dpca breeder referral page.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-02-2020, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you both. Any difference in health/longevity between European and American lines?
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-02-2020, 05:34 PM
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If you are looking for a reputable breeder you are much more likely to find one breeding American show lines vs. European lines.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-02-2020, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph.scott7 View Post
Thanks everyone! We are in the Cleveland Ohio area. We weren't thinking of an older dog or a re homed puppy. I guess I wasn't totally clear on our thoughts or maybe some of my assumptions are wrong.
Our first 3 dogs were obtained from back yard breeders. They were great dogs but we were thinking about getting a dog from a better breeder this time. We are not interested in showing or anything like that, just a good family dog. I have seen websites of some breeders that seem to offer some advanced training for puppies, maybe that is mistaken on our part.
On another question, what are some thoughts on European vs. American bloodlines? I know European are typically a bit larger but is there anything else? Our dogs have been American.
Thanks, all!
Hi Joseph,

Most of the better breeders don't train puppies much before they leave for their own new homes

However--I know some of the breeders who advertise trained puppies and frankly I wouldn't let them train a puppy of mine--I'm a pretty decent trainer and have been training my own dogs for many years. I really, really don't like the way these "partly trained puppies by some of these breeders (and I know who some of them are because they advertise) get trained

So those are my thoughts on the subject puppies with some training.

I will say that I've been buying puppies from American show lines since 1959 and when you get one of their puppies it has been pretty thoroughly socialized, is generally crate trained, the breeder usually does a little training for showing (and I do a lot more in 2 or 3 minute bursts in the kitchen where there is always a treat available.)

I've seem a few lovely European dogs but I've seen a lot more that are the epitome of back yard breederdom in the hands of breeders who import Euro dogs with some titles in their home country but do nothing with what they breed as long as they can say their background is Euro.

European dogs on the whole are not noticeably bigger than American dogs. And here's a caveat for you--Euro dogs have a size disqualification--American dogs do not. And often the titles the breeders claim are what are known as puppy titles and some of the Euro dogs got sold because the were far over standard by the time they could compete for real titles.

And at least on the issue heart health--it's a pretty well known fact that the Euro breeders lied about their dogs as to cause of death for years It's better now because they are obliged to do some testing have the paper work to prove it.

But on the good side--for no known reason the Euro dogs are more often clear of vWD than not. The American breeders try to avoid breeding so they get affected puppies but sometimes the right pair are going to produce all three--clear, carrier and affected. And sometimes you just get lucky--I was looking something up in the OFFA records and ran across a litter that had clear been tested as a group and sent in as a group--usually when you see a whole litter being tested together it's because it's probably a carrier to carrier breeding and stats will tell you that you should be seeing 25% clear, 50% carriers, and 25% affected. But statistics are statistics and the rely on large number of tested dogs to average out. So I looked at that litter--10 puppies
9 were clear and one was a carrier. Now there's a stat you don't see all that often.

Good luck on your search and another welcome from the Pacific Northwest--also Portland, Oregon.

dobebug

PS You probably already know this but just in case you don't--while I buy from American show breeders because when I buy a puppy I intend to show it in conformation and in a variety of other things but I want something pretty close to the pick of the letter or at least the first or second pick of males. But the good breeders know that in every litter some of the puppies will not really be show prospects--most of time the breeder feel lucky if they get one show quality bitch and one show quality dog in a litter of say 8. The other 6 puppies will for most of the world be stunningly beautiful and they are--it may not take much for them to end up highly regarded pets.

But when you buy this way you can almost count on getting a helpful friend who will help you with things that have to do with your puppy. And generally they will be fully health tested--in short those show breeders do the best they can to do to produce the best Dobermans possible.

dobebug
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-04-2020, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the great advice. From what I am reading, I think if we get a puppy from a reputable breeder we will be more than happy. Now we just need to settle on when we will be ready and find a breeder.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-04-2020, 09:09 AM
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I know you are still mourning the loss of your girl, but reaching out to breeders now is a great idea, as more often than not you may be put on a wait list for a puppy. Have you ever been to a dog show? AKC shows are starting back up, and while entries may be lower due to the virus, I would encourage you to go to some dog shows to see well bred dobermans and meet people. These are great places to meet doberman owners who can steer you in the right direction or breeders themselves. Good luck.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-04-2020, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for that idea. we were never interested in showing or anything like that so I don't think we every thought of it. Just looking for a quality companion to run, walk, hike, share our lives with.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-04-2020, 10:04 AM
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A good place to start would be the Doberman Pinscher Club of America or the United Doberman Club breeders directory.

dpca.org/breed/breeder-referral/

https://uniteddobermanclub.com/udc-breeder-directory/

Note: At this moment it appears that the DPCA site is down, but will probably be up later.


What I have found over the years is that if you want to have a trained dog, you must devote the time to train the dog yourself. I always advocate going to a quality training class instead of a private trainer. You can learn a lot by watching others screw up training their dogs.

If you do not have the time and inclination to train your own dog, you will not likely work the dog after somone else trains it and the outside training will mostly be wasted.
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Last edited by Kansadobe; 06-04-2020 at 10:12 AM.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-04-2020, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks for that idea. we were never interested in showing or anything like that so I don't think we every thought of it. Just looking for a quality companion to run, walk, hike, share our lives with.
Reputable breeders generally show their dogs or work them in working sports then title them in said venues prior to breeding. In any well bred litter there will usually be more companion quality puppies vs. show or working prospects. Great breeders are involved in showing or competing in other sports with their dogs in order to prove their worthiness before being bred. Hopefully this gives you insight as to why going to dog shows is a great idea!
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-04-2020, 10:13 AM
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Welcome from Indiana , Sorry about he lose of your girl - it sure is tuff

But be 'n' from the Buckeye and breeders - Protocol sure jumps into my mind .
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-05-2020, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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Welcome from Indiana , Sorry about he lose of your girl - it sure is tuff

But be 'n' from the Buckeye and breeders - Protocol sure jumps into my mind .
Thanks, yeah this is very tuff.

So I found a Protocol Dobermans in Lewisburg Ohio on Facebook but did not see them on the DPCA list.

Is that the one you are talking about?
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-05-2020, 10:02 AM
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She does not breed frequently and that's probably why she's not on the list. I would wager that 1/2 to 1/3 of reputable breeders are actually on there which is why it's a great idea to get in contact with people through that list or meet them at shows or through a DPCA chapter club. Even if people you talk to may not have puppies or have anything planned or even be breeders they may know who to put you in touch with. Good luck!
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post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-05-2020, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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I just talked with Friendship Dobes in Pittsuburgh PA. They are on the DPCA referral website and had a litter yesterday. Seems very good, anyone have any feedback?

Thanks,
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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-05-2020, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks, yeah this is very tuff.

So I found a Protocol Dobermans in Lewisburg Ohio on Facebook but did not see them on the DPCA list.

Is that the one you are talking about?
Yep , That's the one Joe , If I remember right , they had 3 dogs at Westminster this year and - sorry here but if I remember right Bravo took best of Breed and one took best Opposite sex - and there was one named Savvy in the group to .

Greenie is way over my pay grade in this category and he also has Dogs that show and he gives very good advise on this , His Red ( Hugo ) is outstanding . I would follow what he says .
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