Hi I'm new here! - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
New member introduction If you are a new member to www.Dobermantalk.com please say Hi

 18Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
MyDobiefurbabies
 
ownerof2dobbies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 14
Location: Iowa
Dogs Name: Walker (male) Angel (female)
Titles: None
Dogs Age: Walker is 2 yrs old (DOB 3/29/18) Angel is 1 yrs old (DOB 3/21/19)
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit ownerof2dobbies's Gallery
Thanks: 5
Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts
Images: 2
   
Hi I'm new here!

Hi all you Doberman lovers!

I'm a proud owner of 2 dobermans!
Walker is our male doberman, he will turn 2 yrs old on the 29th of this month.
He is half American/half European, black/rust, AKC registered.

Angel is our female doberman, she just turned 1 yrs old on the 21st of this month.
She is 75% European, 15% American, red/rust, AKC registered.

I tried to post a pic of my dobermans but it didn't work so I included the URL below.
https://ibb.co/3zd1Yvs

My goal is to become a responsible & reputable doberman breeder, that is why I joined this forum.
I'm excited to learn as much as I can from all of you, so be prepared for me to ask alot of questions!



Edited by melbrod: I fixed your picture so it would display here. Cute pups--they look like they could be a handful:
dobebug likes this.

Last edited by melbrod; 03-26-2020 at 01:01 AM.
ownerof2dobbies is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to ownerof2dobbies For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (03-26-2020), Cressrb (03-26-2020), ECIN (03-26-2020), Gretchen_Red (03-27-2020), LadyDi (03-26-2020)
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 12:20 AM
Alpha
 
Fitzmar Dobermans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,096
Location: S. E. Pennsylvania
Dogs Name: Harvard, Jezebel, & Mabel
Titles: AKC CH & GrCh, RN, CGC & CGCA
Dogs Age: 12/20/07, 2/26/12, and 2/26/18
Gallery Pics: 13
Visit Fitzmar Dobermans's Gallery
Thanks: 4,082
Thanked 20,097 Times in 4,446 Posts
Images: 13
                     
Click here to find out how Fitzmar Dobermans became a supporter
Welcome! Looking forward to hearing more from you.
What are your plans for the 2 Dobermans you have? Just be aware that being a responsible & reputable breeder is generally the result of many years of study/mentoring/competing. As an example, I had Dobermans for 15 years and was a member of both a local Doberman club and the DPCA before ever breeding a litter.

Mary Jo Ansel
Fitzmar


AKC GRCH/UKC CH Fitzmar's Command A Minute CGC "Harvard"
Fitzmar's Victory Hop Devil RN CGC "Jezebel"
Ch Jalyn One Moment Please "Mabel"
Fitzmar Dobermans is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Fitzmar Dobermans For This Useful Post:
Cressrb (03-26-2020), dobegal (03-26-2020), ECIN (03-26-2020), LadyDi (03-26-2020), MeadowCat (03-26-2020)
post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 12:54 AM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 23,310
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Ori AKA Harold DogDog (Hairy Dog), RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Titles: DogDog Mouthe Extraordinaire; Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior
Dogs Age: DogDog 2 yrs?; RIP Kip 11 yrs; Capri 7 yrs; Katana 9 yrs; Caesar 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 74,778
Thanked 62,529 Times in 19,076 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
HI, welcome to Dobermantalk from Colorado!

Like Fitzmar said above, it takes a lot of work and time to get to the point where you're ready to breed a dog responsibly.


Here are a couple of threads about what it takes to be considered a reputable breeder--

https://www.dobermantalk.com/breedin...e-breeder.html

https://www.dobermantalk.com/breedin...-question.html



And one from the DPCA website that talks about the kinds of costs you need to consider when you breed your dogs, with a sort of spreadsheet so you can calculate what you should expect to spend. A lot of people don't necessarily understand how much it can cost to breed dogs if you are breeding responsibly.

DPCA | The Doberman | Cost of a Litter


As you will notice as you read them, the subject can be quite contentious. But reading through these threads, arguments and all, should give you an idea of the standards and qualifications we expect breeders to have before they can be called responsible or reputable.
______________________________
But asking questions and reading the answers are how we all learn, so don't be afraid to jump right in and fire away. Glad you're here looking for info.
LadyDi likes this.

Last edited by melbrod; 03-26-2020 at 01:06 AM.
melbrod is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
dobegal (03-26-2020), ECIN (03-26-2020), LadyDi (03-26-2020), MeadowCat (03-26-2020), Rosemary (03-26-2020)
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
MyDobiefurbabies
 
ownerof2dobbies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 14
Location: Iowa
Dogs Name: Walker (male) Angel (female)
Titles: None
Dogs Age: Walker is 2 yrs old (DOB 3/29/18) Angel is 1 yrs old (DOB 3/21/19)
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit ownerof2dobbies's Gallery
Thanks: 5
Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts
Images: 2
   
Thanks for welcoming me! I plan to follow the AKC guidelines on how to be a responsible breeder and learn all I can from this forum and doing alot of research before breeding my dobermans. I understand it's alot of hard work and dedication. We decided not to crop our doberman's ears so I'm not sure if that would disqualify them from showing them. I actually love their floppy ears!
ownerof2dobbies is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to ownerof2dobbies For This Useful Post:
Cressrb (03-26-2020)
post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 01:20 AM Thread Starter
MyDobiefurbabies
 
ownerof2dobbies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 14
Location: Iowa
Dogs Name: Walker (male) Angel (female)
Titles: None
Dogs Age: Walker is 2 yrs old (DOB 3/29/18) Angel is 1 yrs old (DOB 3/21/19)
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit ownerof2dobbies's Gallery
Thanks: 5
Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts
Images: 2
   
Thank you for welcoming me, and thanks for the links, I'll check them out!
I do have a question, we had our male tested a while back for Von Willebrand Disease and it came back that he's a vWF1 (Carrier).
Is it okay to breed him if my female is also a carrier? We haven't had her tested yet but the breeder told me she's a carrier.
ownerof2dobbies is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to ownerof2dobbies For This Useful Post:
Cressrb (03-26-2020)
post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 07:38 AM
Alpha
 
ECIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 6,933
Location: Indiana
Dogs Name: Kadin aka Mr. Business & Ali
Titles: Blue Ribbon's Every Day
Dogs Age: 2 & 9
Gallery Pics: 328
Visit ECIN's Gallery
Thanks: 20,589
Thanked 25,106 Times in 6,577 Posts
Images: 328
                     
Click here to find out how ECIN became a supporter
Welcome From Indiana
ECIN is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to ECIN For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (03-26-2020)
post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 08:17 AM
Alpha
 
LadyDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,487
Location: Florida
Dogs Name: Hoss
Titles: Proud European Doberman
Dogs Age: 3
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit LadyDi's Gallery
Thanks: 35,789
Thanked 15,559 Times in 4,703 Posts
Images: 4
                     
Click here to find out how LadyDi became a supporter
welcome from Florida ...cute pups!!!
Love those soft ears........anyway welcome to our forum!!
We love to give advise ...lots of experience within this forum.......we love to BS and tease each other also !!!
So anyway...welcome.......so with all the crazy stuff going on......looking forward to your questions as it will give all of us somehing else to think about during these times....

Hoss
LadyDi is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to LadyDi For This Useful Post:
ECIN (03-26-2020)
post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 10:11 AM
Alpha
 
Cressrb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,995
Location: Utah
Dogs Name: Irongates East of the Sunrise, aka 'Jada' CGC, WAC, GrCh. Cha-Rish Mine To Imagine, WAC
Titles: CGC, CH. WAC GCH
Dogs Age: DOB:5/21/12, 1/26/15
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Cressrb's Gallery
Thanks: 11,256
Thanked 7,559 Times in 2,383 Posts
                     
Click here to find out how Cressrb became a supporter
Welcome to DT from Utah. Cute pair of Dobermans you have!

"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh
Cressrb is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Cressrb For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (03-26-2020)
post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
MyDobiefurbabies
 
ownerof2dobbies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 14
Location: Iowa
Dogs Name: Walker (male) Angel (female)
Titles: None
Dogs Age: Walker is 2 yrs old (DOB 3/29/18) Angel is 1 yrs old (DOB 3/21/19)
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit ownerof2dobbies's Gallery
Thanks: 5
Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts
Images: 2
   
Hi everyone from Iowa!
ownerof2dobbies is offline  
post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 10:54 AM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,151
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 48,538
Thanked 61,281 Times in 16,447 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Welcome!

It's good to put a lot of thought into breeding before you do it. This thread may be a good one to read. People can be blunt, but there is a lot of good information in it if you are open minded and want to learn. https://www.dobermantalk.com/breedin...e-breeder.html


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E L1I L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
Cressrb (03-26-2020), ECIN (03-27-2020), LadyDi (03-26-2020), melbrod (03-26-2020)
post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
MyDobiefurbabies
 
ownerof2dobbies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 14
Location: Iowa
Dogs Name: Walker (male) Angel (female)
Titles: None
Dogs Age: Walker is 2 yrs old (DOB 3/29/18) Angel is 1 yrs old (DOB 3/21/19)
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit ownerof2dobbies's Gallery
Thanks: 5
Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts
Images: 2
   
Thanks Meadow Cat, can you please help me put the pic of my dobermans as my avatar?
ownerof2dobbies is offline  
post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 11:14 AM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 13,272
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Leo (GSD); Lily (APBT)
Titles: They do, and are working on more
Dogs Age: Leo 7; Lily 5; Ilka 2009-2017; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 39,545
Thanked 31,839 Times in 10,510 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by ownerof2dobbies View Post
Thank you for welcoming me, and thanks for the links, I'll check them out!
I do have a question, we had our male tested a while back for Von Willebrand Disease and it came back that he's a vWF1 (Carrier).
Is it okay to breed him if my female is also a carrier? We haven't had her tested yet but the breeder told me she's a carrier.
Crossing a carrier with a carrier can result is three possible outcomes with the puppies. First off is clear, the second is carrier, and the third is genetically affected. The first two possibilities would not be clinically affected (have abnormal bleeding due to vWD). However, any genetically affected dogs do have the chance of becoming clinically affected (have abnormal bleeding, sometimes severe). You would have to test every single puppy in the litter, so that their new owners would know what to expect, and only sell genetically affected pups to experienced homes.

While their ears being left natural isn't a DQ under the AKC standard, it can be a hard slog to finish a cropped dog, so an uncropped dog has to be an exceptionally good dog to do well in the AKC show ring
Gretchen_Red likes this.


~~The Current Hellhounds~~
Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-EST OD-WD3
CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-EST OD-WD3
~~Requiescat In Pace~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!”
Rosemary is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
Cressrb (03-26-2020), LadyDi (03-26-2020), MeadowCat (03-26-2020), melbrod (03-26-2020)
post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 01:58 PM
Big Lil pup
 
4x4bike ped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,870
Location: Portland, OR
Dogs Name: Foxfire's The Real McCoy (McCoy)
Titles: Pet of the Year
Dogs Age: DOB 9/12/14
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit 4x4bike ped's Gallery
Thanks: 15,628
Thanked 14,049 Times in 4,806 Posts
Images: 9
                     
Hi Owner! Welcome from the Pacific NW.

What a couple of cuties.

Breeding? Not for me!!! LOL. Way too much time, effort, responsibility and $$$$ involved.

I have been perfectly happy for the last 4+ decades to surround myself with the wonderful pups of others who are willing to make the difficult commitment to the Doberman breed.

Best to you, Angie and Walker,

John Lichtwardt
Portland OR
4x4bike ped is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 4x4bike ped For This Useful Post:
Cressrb (03-26-2020), LadyDi (03-27-2020), MeadowCat (03-26-2020)
post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 11:04 PM
Alpha
 
Fitzmar Dobermans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,096
Location: S. E. Pennsylvania
Dogs Name: Harvard, Jezebel, & Mabel
Titles: AKC CH & GrCh, RN, CGC & CGCA
Dogs Age: 12/20/07, 2/26/12, and 2/26/18
Gallery Pics: 13
Visit Fitzmar Dobermans's Gallery
Thanks: 4,082
Thanked 20,097 Times in 4,446 Posts
Images: 13
                     
Click here to find out how Fitzmar Dobermans became a supporter
Go through the links to threads about breeding. It is best not to breed a VWD carrier to a carrier unless there is some truly competing reason why those two dogs should be bred..... and that isn't that they happen to be the two dogs you own. Also, you need to learn about all the health testing that should be done.... VWD is just one test. I'm not going to comment beyond that right now as I really don't want to drive you away from a place that might be able to teach you a lot. There are also a lot of good articles on the DPCA website on all kinds of subjects.
dobebug, Cressrb and Gretchen_Red like this.

Mary Jo Ansel
Fitzmar


AKC GRCH/UKC CH Fitzmar's Command A Minute CGC "Harvard"
Fitzmar's Victory Hop Devil RN CGC "Jezebel"
Ch Jalyn One Moment Please "Mabel"
Fitzmar Dobermans is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Fitzmar Dobermans For This Useful Post:
dobebug (03-27-2020), Dobe_Mom (03-27-2020), ECIN (03-27-2020), LadyDi (03-27-2020), MeadowCat (03-27-2020), melbrod (03-26-2020), ownerof2dobbies (03-26-2020), Rosemary (03-26-2020)
post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 12:58 AM Thread Starter
MyDobiefurbabies
 
ownerof2dobbies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 14
Location: Iowa
Dogs Name: Walker (male) Angel (female)
Titles: None
Dogs Age: Walker is 2 yrs old (DOB 3/29/18) Angel is 1 yrs old (DOB 3/21/19)
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit ownerof2dobbies's Gallery
Thanks: 5
Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts
Images: 2
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4bike ped View Post
Hi Owner! Welcome from the Pacific NW.

What a couple of cuties.

Breeding? Not for me!!! LOL. Way too much time, effort, responsibility and $$$$ involved.

I have been perfectly happy for the last 4+ decades to surround myself with the wonderful pups of others who are willing to make the difficult commitment to the Doberman breed.

Best to you, Angie and Walker,

John Lichtwardt
Portland OR
Thanks for all of your advice, I really appreciate it!

I have a couple questions....first one is I noticed in the breeding thread that one of you shared with me there was a comment that if your doberman has a WZ at the beginning of their # they should not be bred. Why is that?

Second, after reviewing Walker and Angel's Certified Pedigree certificate from AKC, I noticed that Walker's grandfather (T&T Tucker) is Angel's great grandfather with the same # starting with WS. Does this mean they should not be bred since they have the same bloodline?
ownerof2dobbies is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ownerof2dobbies For This Useful Post:
ECIN (03-27-2020), LadyDi (03-27-2020)
post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 07:52 AM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,151
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 48,538
Thanked 61,281 Times in 16,447 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by ownerof2dobbies View Post
Thanks for all of your advice, I really appreciate it!

I have a couple questions....first one is I noticed in the breeding thread that one of you shared with me there was a comment that if your doberman has a WZ at the beginning of their # they should not be bred. Why is that?

Second, after reviewing Walker and Angel's Certified Pedigree certificate from AKC, I noticed that Walker's grandfather (T&T Tucker) is Angel's great grandfather with the same # starting with WS. Does this mean they should not be bred since they have the same bloodline?
A dog with a WZ registration number is a descendant of Sheba, the first albino Doberman. It is the tracking system that has been used for many, many years to track dogs that carry and can reproduce albinism in Dobermans (something that is very undesirable). Until very recently, we could not test for it, as we had not identified the gene responsible, so a special "Z" system was used. You can read about albinism here: DPCA | The Doberman | Albino Dobermans

Unfortunately, unethical breeders continued to try to breed for albino dogs, marketing them as "special" and "unique" despite the health issues.
dobebug, Cressrb and Gretchen_Red like this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E L1I L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
Cressrb (03-27-2020), ECIN (03-27-2020), Fitzmar Dobermans (03-31-2020), melbrod (03-27-2020), Rosemary (03-27-2020)
post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 08:09 AM
Alpha
 
Gretchen_Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,589
Location: Denver
Dogs Name: Maverick and Kya
Titles: GCH, BH, Dock Diving, Agility, Rally, and of course Supreme bed destroyer
Dogs Age: 4 years and 20mo
Gallery Pics: 14
Visit Gretchen_Red's Gallery
Thanks: 7,263
Thanked 5,779 Times in 2,266 Posts
Images: 14
                     
Would you be able to share their pedigrees?

When I was looking for Maverick I would bring up puppies and breeders to my handler. I would describe the parents, and the titles... and she would say, "research all of the dogs in the 4 gen. pedigree and write by their name how they died. Call the breeder if you have too. Before even THINKING about breeding your dogs you need to have this answered. Most dogs you can find online, some you will have to ask your breeder about. You need this information to know what potential issues will arise from breeding. Also ask your breeder what health issues run in their lines. Reputable breeders know their lines and they know the lines of the dogs they breed too. They rarely breed their own dogs together.

The next question I have for your is: How will breeding your two dogs together help and improve the breed?

Final question: What health testing have you done on your two dogs?

If you want to consider showing I would start taping your girls ears down so they lay nice and flat to the head.
dobebug and Cressrb like this.
Gretchen_Red is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Gretchen_Red For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (03-27-2020), Cressrb (03-27-2020), dobebug (03-27-2020), MeadowCat (03-27-2020), melbrod (03-27-2020), Rosemary (03-27-2020)
post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 08:27 AM
Lil Pup
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 7
Location: Calgary AB Canada
Dogs Name: Theadra
Titles: CD, CDX
Dogs Age: Deceased (2002-2013)
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Instructor's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 8 Posts
   
I'm wondering how you managed to get 2 dogs that you are able to keep intact and breed but not have any information about breeding from the "breeders" you got the dogs from ???

I can't imagine any reputable breeders would allow any of their pups to go without a contract requiring spay/neuter or a co-owned contract for "potential" breeding to a home with experienced Doberman owners.

How did you manage to get these dogs ??
dobebug likes this.
Instructor is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Instructor For This Useful Post:
Cressrb (03-27-2020), dobebug (03-27-2020), ECIN (03-27-2020), Gretchen_Red (03-30-2020)
post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 10:26 AM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 13,272
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Leo (GSD); Lily (APBT)
Titles: They do, and are working on more
Dogs Age: Leo 7; Lily 5; Ilka 2009-2017; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 39,545
Thanked 31,839 Times in 10,510 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by ownerof2dobbies View Post
Thanks for all of your advice, I really appreciate it!

I have a couple questions....first one is I noticed in the breeding thread that one of you shared with me there was a comment that if your doberman has a WZ at the beginning of their # they should not be bred. Why is that?

Second, after reviewing Walker and Angel's Certified Pedigree certificate from AKC, I noticed that Walker's grandfather (T&T Tucker) is Angel's great grandfather with the same # starting with WS. Does this mean they should not be bred since they have the same bloodline?
Since MeadowCat has already explained the Z factor, I'll stick to the pedigree question.

Line breeding, which is the breeding of related animals, is pretty common, and how breed type is set. Some line breeding can be really tight, with first or second degree relations being bred together.

Out crossing is breeding animals that don't have any common ancestors for several generations.

It's very important that you know how closely related dogs in a pedigree are, and what good and not so good traits they tended to pass along. Line breeding on a dog know for producing faulty conformation or bad temperaments isn't something you really want to do. And while DCM is in every line, several crosses to a dog who died young from it, and who's offspring also tended to die young, is just plain unacceptable, IMO.


~~The Current Hellhounds~~
Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-EST OD-WD3
CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-EST OD-WD3
~~Requiescat In Pace~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!”
Rosemary is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
Cressrb (03-27-2020), MeadowCat (03-27-2020), melbrod (03-27-2020)
post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
MyDobiefurbabies
 
ownerof2dobbies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 14
Location: Iowa
Dogs Name: Walker (male) Angel (female)
Titles: None
Dogs Age: Walker is 2 yrs old (DOB 3/29/18) Angel is 1 yrs old (DOB 3/21/19)
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit ownerof2dobbies's Gallery
Thanks: 5
Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts
Images: 2
   
Thank you for answering my questions! As I stated I'm a newbie here and I have alot to learn and I appreciate everyone being patient with me.

Unfortunately my female doberman Angel's pedigree # is WZ02013211, her mother, grandmother and great grandmother's pedigrees start with WZ.
But my male doberman Walker's pedigree is WS60664705, he has no WZ in his lineage.

Maybe I should just consider having Walker being a stud dog but only with females that are not vWD carriers so it will better the breed.
What do you all think?
ownerof2dobbies is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ownerof2dobbies For This Useful Post:
dobebug (03-27-2020), melbrod (03-27-2020)
post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 12:10 PM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,151
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 48,538
Thanked 61,281 Times in 16,447 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by ownerof2dobbies View Post
Thank you for answering my questions! As I stated I'm a newbie here and I have alot to learn and I appreciate everyone being patient with me.

Unfortunately my female doberman Angel's pedigree # is WZ02013211, her mother, grandmother and great grandmother's pedigrees start with WZ.
But my male doberman Walker's pedigree is WS60664705, he has no WZ in his lineage.

Maybe I should just consider having Walker being a stud dog but only with females that are not vWD carriers so it will better the breed.
What do you all think?
It is definitely the right decision not to breed your female. I would personally have her spayed.

The decision to breed your male is still a complex decision. Most breeders looking to improve the breed will be looking to see his structure (conformation), and his temperament, and how he can improve the breed. That means that you will want to start thinking about what makes him a great representation of the breed. When I look for a puppy, for example, I want the parents of my puppy to be great representations of the breed - so I'd look for a dog that has shown to be really excellent by "proving himself" in a lot of sports by earning a lot of titles, and being structurally sound, so being evaluated by an outside authority. Typically that is in the conformation ring, either in AKC or UKC. Sometimes dogs that excel in the very top levels of sports do not have conformation titles, but I would not be interested in puppies produced by a dog that doesn't do any of that.

If you think you want to breed him, you should first start by really getting involved in some activities that show that he's a truly outstanding example of the Doberman breed. Good, reputable breeders don't want to breed dogs that haven't "earned" being bred.

Additionally, you will need to be doing extremely thorough health testing every year. That means an annual echocardiogram and 24 hour holter monitor with a cardiologist. Full bloodwork, including a full thyroid panel, liver and kidneys. He needs his eyes checked, hip xrays, etc. The annual health tests can cost thousands of dollars, and they MUST be done every year.

You need to start researching his pedigree, as Gretchen suggested. How old are his parents? How about his grandparents? If they aren't alive, what did they die of? What health issues do they have? Do they have normal thyroid levels? What are their heart tests like? The bitch owner would want these results, if you are breeding to a good, ethical owner. How about great-grandparents? How long did they live? What did they die of, and what were their health issues? Are there things like allergy issues in the lines? What are the temperaments of the dogs like tracing back at least 4 generations? When you breed dogs together, you aren't breeding two individual dogs, you are breeding the pedigrees together. It's a big responsibility to produce stable dogs with good temperaments, good structure...

The stud owner is JUST as responsible as the bitch owner for the puppies produced.
dobebug and Cressrb like this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E L1I L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
Cressrb (03-27-2020), dobebug (03-27-2020), Fitzmar Dobermans (03-31-2020), melbrod (03-27-2020), ownerof2dobbies (03-27-2020), Rosemary (03-27-2020)
post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 12:20 PM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 13,272
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Leo (GSD); Lily (APBT)
Titles: They do, and are working on more
Dogs Age: Leo 7; Lily 5; Ilka 2009-2017; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 39,545
Thanked 31,839 Times in 10,510 Posts
                     
As an FYI, even if they are a recognized color, WZ dogs aren't eligible for AKC conformation, although they can do anything else that Dobermans are eligible for.

As MeadowCat said, good breeders won't be interested in breeding their bitches to an untitled, untested male. A person who's main interest is conformation will want conformation titles both on the dog they breed to and in his pedigree. A performance sport oriented person will want to see titles in the sport(s) they are interested in. Personally, I love to see titles on "both ends" of a dog, meaning that they have both conformation and performance titles.
dobebug likes this.


~~The Current Hellhounds~~
Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-EST OD-WD3
CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L5/CH/L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L1 GC GPS-EST OD-WD3
~~Requiescat In Pace~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!”
Rosemary is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
Cressrb (03-27-2020), MeadowCat (03-27-2020), melbrod (03-27-2020), ownerof2dobbies (03-27-2020)
post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
MyDobiefurbabies
 
ownerof2dobbies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 14
Location: Iowa
Dogs Name: Walker (male) Angel (female)
Titles: None
Dogs Age: Walker is 2 yrs old (DOB 3/29/18) Angel is 1 yrs old (DOB 3/21/19)
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit ownerof2dobbies's Gallery
Thanks: 5
Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts
Images: 2
   
Thanks for the information Meadow Cat! Angel is just finishing her first heat cycle and she turned 1 yrs old. When would be a good time to have her spayed?

Regarding Walker, I will make sure to have all the required tests done one him, but regarding showing him in events I have a question.
When Angel still had her sharp puppy teeth they were playing and she ended up biting his ear and she took a little piece off the tip of his ear in which now he has this little piece missing. Would that DQ him from showing him?
ownerof2dobbies is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ownerof2dobbies For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (03-27-2020), melbrod (03-27-2020)
post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 12:30 PM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,151
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 48,538
Thanked 61,281 Times in 16,447 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by ownerof2dobbies View Post
Thanks for the information Meadow Cat! Angel is just finishing her first heat cycle and she turned 1 yrs old. When would be a good time to have her spayed?

Regarding Walker, I will make sure to have all the required tests done one him, but regarding showing him in events I have a question.
When Angel still had her sharp puppy teeth they were playing and she ended up biting his ear and she took a little piece off the tip of his ear in which now he has this little piece missing. Would that DQ him from showing him?
I would talk to your vet about spaying. There are many varying opinions on the topic. If you have any doubts about being able to prevent an accidental litter from happening, I would do it sooner rather than wait. That's my personal opinion.

If you are asking about conformation events, the best advice I have is to contact the closest DPCA chapter club and ask to meet with some experienced Doberman people to evaluate his overall conformation. The Doberman ring is very competitive. You can go to The DPCA | Chapter Clubs

Even if it turns out that he's not built for conformation, your closest chapter club is a great place to connect with active Doberman people. Finding out how to get involved in sports is another good idea. I want to say that many of us started out with Dobermans from less than great breeders. If it turns out that he's not a good candidate for breeding but you think that down the road this is something you want to do, then the best thing you can do is to NOT breed him, but do a lot of things with him, and get involved in your club, and show that you're dedicated to the breed. Learn a lot about what makes someone a good breeder. Find someone to be a mentor to you. Down the line, that will allow you to get a well-bred dog from someone who will help you learn how to show that dog in conformation. If you've been active with these dogs, if you put in the time to learn, if you show that you want to do things right, if you "earn your stripes", so to speak, there are so many people out there that would love to teach you, that would love to mentor you, if you are open to learning and want to do it the right way. But that also means not breeding these dogs, if things are not right for them.
dobebug likes this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E L1I L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (03-27-2020), melbrod (03-27-2020), ownerof2dobbies (03-27-2020), Rosemary (03-27-2020)
post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
MyDobiefurbabies
 
ownerof2dobbies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 14
Location: Iowa
Dogs Name: Walker (male) Angel (female)
Titles: None
Dogs Age: Walker is 2 yrs old (DOB 3/29/18) Angel is 1 yrs old (DOB 3/21/19)
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit ownerof2dobbies's Gallery
Thanks: 5
Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts
Images: 2
   
I took very strict precautions so that my dobermans did not mate, we have a friend that took Walker to stay with him until Angel's heat cycle is done, to be safe I'm waiting 4 weeks from when she started her cycle. We live in the country on an acreage and there are no male dogs around us, plus I watch her when she's in our fenced yard just to make sure.
ownerof2dobbies is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ownerof2dobbies For This Useful Post:
Cressrb (03-27-2020), LadyDi (03-27-2020), melbrod (03-27-2020), Rosemary (03-27-2020)
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome