Help I’m new! - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
New member introduction If you are a new member to www.Dobermantalk.com please say Hi

 24Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
Lil Pup
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 2
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rachel Anderson's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
 
Help I’m new!

We have been looking and talking about getting a dog. Narrowed it down to the American female Doberman, watched lots of videos and love them. But..... I’m scared, after reading a few posts they seem rather expensive and prone to very expensive illness.

Maybe I read a couple of the downers posts but really has me spooked .

Can someone please give me the low down.

I have heard that rescues are ok are they?

Thank you from Ohio
StrykersPerson likes this.
Rachel Anderson is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Rachel Anderson For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (03-02-2020), StrykersPerson (03-03-2020), yuki_cos (03-03-2020)
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 08:35 PM
Alpha
 
LadyDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 6,165
Location: Florida
Dogs Name: Hoss
Titles: Proud European Doberman
Dogs Age: 3
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit LadyDi's Gallery
Thanks: 41,810
Thanked 18,341 Times in 5,353 Posts
Images: 4
                     
Click here to find out how LadyDi became a supporter
Dobemans are great dogs for sure!
Very smart once fully matured.
Expensive yes.
Longevity for this breed is 10 years although some live longer.
They are powerful dogs so it’s very important to be committed to training from the moment you take possession.
Good idea to look up common health problems with this breed so you will go into this adventure with open eyes.
Health insurance is always encouraged.
If you have a tight budget .....not a good choice for you.
I spend 100 per month in food and flea/tick medications.
But they are awesome dogs and will want to be by your side every moment.
Hoss is 4 years but its like having a kid at home again.
They will demand time from you ...they love to interact with their humans.
Study everything and welcome to our forum.
Lots of experience of these threads !
Welcome from Florida!

Hoss
LadyDi is online now  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to LadyDi For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (03-02-2020), Coco Loco (03-02-2020), dobegal (03-02-2020), yuki_cos (03-03-2020)
post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 08:43 PM
joie de vivre
 
brw1982's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 11,145
Location: Missouri
Dogs Name: Cypress (Dobe) & Dempsey (Rat Terrier)
Dogs Age: 05.08.19 & 11.04.14
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit brw1982's Gallery
Thanks: 51,272
Thanked 31,934 Times in 8,853 Posts
Images: 9
                     
Hi and welcome!

Generally speaking, compared to some other purebred dogs, they are expensive to purchase. And they can be expensive to own, as are many big dogs. And they are at risk for some expensive and heartbreaking health problems.

I strongly recommend pet insurance whether you buy a puppy or a rescue.

Rescue dogs can be great. If you decide to rescue, I encourage you to carefully choose the rescue you go through. Some are better than others at vetting the dogs and the support they offer to new owners.



Old Drum's Crimson Crisp CGC, "Fiona" 04-21-2009 - 01-15-2018
Old Drum's Fiery Rumors of Taliesin CGC LC-10D, "Tali" 05-09-2008 - 08-19-2018



Sirai's Novel Weapon TKN, AKC S.T.A.R. puppy, "Cypress" 05-08-2019 -
AKC/UKC CH Bur-way's Unscripted CA TKN, "Dempsey" (Rat Terrier) 11-04-2014 -
brw1982 is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to brw1982 For This Useful Post:
Coco Loco (03-02-2020), dobegal (03-02-2020), LadyDi (03-02-2020), MeadowCat (03-03-2020), melbrod (03-02-2020), Rosemary (03-02-2020), yuki_cos (03-03-2020)
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 09:03 PM
Big Pup
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 42
Dogs Name: Misha
Dogs Age: DOB 9/24/2019
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit Yulie's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts
Images: 4
   
Rescues are cheaper but they tend to have very stringent rules making it difficult to adopt. You also may not be getting a puppy. Breeders are more expensive, but you normally don't have to jump through hoops to get a dog. Plus, you'll get a puppy and start from scratch.

I have a European Dobie and he was quite expensive. He is currently going through obedience training and we'll be starting Schutzhund in a few months.

Prepare to spend $$$$ on premium food. Grocery store food won't cut it. Don't listen to vets trying to sell you Science Diet and Royal Canin. Prepare to spend $$$$ on training, otherwise you'll have a 70+ lbs. unruly beast on your hands. There are also vet visits to get the shots, and, monthly flea, tick, and heartworm prevention meds. There are also toys, crates, beds, cleaning supplies, treats, training tools, and other essentials. I don't buy plush toys because they get destroyed within hours. Chew toys and ropes only. And I DEFINITELY don't buy toys that squeak.

Some people report diarrhea issues, so you may go through trial and error when choosing the right food.

If you decide to get the ears cropped, you'll have to be doing ear posting for months. So, you'll need to learn how to do it.
LadyDi likes this.
Yulie is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Yulie For This Useful Post:
LadyDi (03-02-2020)
post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 09:46 PM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 24,036
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Ori AKA Harold DogDog (Hairy Dog), RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Titles: DogDog Mouthe Extraordinaire; Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior
Dogs Age: DogDog 3 yrs?; RIP Kip 11 yrs; Capri 7 yrs; Katana 9 yrs; Caesar 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 80,809
Thanked 65,606 Times in 19,762 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
A good breeder will have requirements too. They may be more flexible than a rescue that has to stick with its blanket policies, but if you run into a breeder who doesn't really ask questions about what kind of home you can provide to their puppy (and just wants the money for the pup) run! That would not be a reputable breeder.

There are costs like decent food, routine vet visits for shots, heartworm preventative, basic obedience training (which you should do along with the dog, under the guidance of a trainer), that any dog owner will face. But on top of those, dobes can be expensive because they are not a healthy breed. They are prone to several severe health problems. That is why pet insurance, purchased BEFORE the dog has any problems (ie as a puppy) is recommended by so many.

If you are having trouble scraping up enough money to buy a pup from a good breeder (2-3 thousand dollars, in general), a dobe may not be the best choice for you. But you could always start now and save up for a couple of years so you not only have the money to purchase the pup but also a cushion to fall back on.

Or you could go to a rescue and spend less. But if you go that route, I would recommend you put the money you would have otherwise spent on a puppy into an emergency account for the dobe--it is really a good idea to have some money put aside if you're going to have a doberman.

Oh, and a good rescue is absolutely OK to deal with. An advantage to working with them is that they generally have adult dogs that they know a bit about--they've probably fostered the dog out, done some temperament testing, noticed problems, observed the dog's individual personality and needs--they may be able to set you up with a good match for your specific set-up. And not all dobes end up in rescues because they are problem dogs. Rescues do sometimes have puppies, too.
dobebug and epik8 like this.

Last edited by melbrod; 03-02-2020 at 09:52 PM.
melbrod is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
Control_Freak (03-03-2020), dobegal (03-02-2020), Dobe_Mom (03-03-2020), LadyDi (03-03-2020), VZ-Doberman (03-06-2020), yuki_cos (03-03-2020)
post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 10:58 PM
Big Lil pup
 
4x4bike ped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,007
Location: Portland, OR
Dogs Name: Foxfire's The Real McCoy (McCoy)
Titles: Pet of the Year
Dogs Age: DOB 9/12/14
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit 4x4bike ped's Gallery
Thanks: 16,212
Thanked 14,621 Times in 4,941 Posts
Images: 9
                     
Hi Rachel. Welcome from the Pacific NW. You are on the right site to ask about all things Doberman.

Ask a question and you will generally get an answer or opinion.

BTW... Best to you in your search for a puppy or rescue. IMO, if you go about it the right way (that's where all the questions come in LOL, you can end up with a great Doberman either way.

John Lichtwardt
Portland OR
4x4bike ped is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to 4x4bike ped For This Useful Post:
dobebug (03-03-2020), LadyDi (03-03-2020), melbrod (03-02-2020), VZ-Doberman (03-06-2020), yuki_cos (03-03-2020)
post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 07:45 AM
Big Pup
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 42
Dogs Name: Misha
Dogs Age: DOB 9/24/2019
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit Yulie's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts
Images: 4
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
A good breeder will have requirements too. They may be more flexible than a rescue that has to stick with its blanket policies, but if you run into a breeder who doesn't really ask questions about what kind of home you can provide to their puppy (and just wants the money for the pup) run! That would not be a reputable breeder.
The requirements are minimum if any.

There is no easy way to know a person unless you come to their home and start opening cabinets and look at their credit history. A lot of people lie too.

If a breeder sees that you have the money and you are a decent person who knows what they are doing, there is no reason for them not to sell you a dog. My breeder did not get out her clip board and start asking me job interview questions. She saw that I was interested and asked relevant questions. That was enough. At the end, she sold me an excellent dog and I was happy to throw money at her.
Yulie is offline  
post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 08:21 AM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 24,036
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Ori AKA Harold DogDog (Hairy Dog), RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Titles: DogDog Mouthe Extraordinaire; Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior
Dogs Age: DogDog 3 yrs?; RIP Kip 11 yrs; Capri 7 yrs; Katana 9 yrs; Caesar 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 80,809
Thanked 65,606 Times in 19,762 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
A breeder can decide whether or not to sell you a dog regardless of whether or not you walk in the door with a fistful of cash. It is fully their option and they don't even have to explain why they will not sell you a dog. Most of those breeders will explain what their concerns are so you have to option of fixing them (fencing your yard, if they require that, for example) if you ask however.

At the very least, a good breeder will ask about family members, fenced yards, how much time and exercise you plan on giving the dog, other dogs and animals in the house and if you're planning on working or showing the dog. They may ask for references like who your vet is.

They might not inspect your house (!), but certainly if you have little kids, an unfenced yard or another dog who might be problematic (a male dog if you're asking for a male puppy, for example), the breeder will ask for more details about how you plan to deal with those difficulties. A person who has kids under, oh, say, five, may be asked to wait a year or two until their kids are a bit older. But a breeder will have more flexibility to decide if they want to place a puppy with you even if some parts of your home or lifestyle aren't quite what they would normally approve, if you already have a record of managing with those problems.

A breeder will require that you return any puppy or adult dog if you run into any problem which will mean you need to "get rid" of the dog, or at least require that you check with them where the dog will go to get their approval.

They may, and likely will, ask you to fix the dog when he gets to an appropriate age, or release the dog on a limited registration so you can't register any puppies. But most shelters will require you to fix the dog before they even will release it to you See here https://www.animallaw.info/intro/sta...nd-neuter-laws

Of course, you can lie with your answers, but you're certainly not likely to find ANYONE here who will tell you that you should fudge the truth when you talk to a breeder.

Perhaps a breeder can chime in here and talk about the questions they ask and the requirements they have.
dobebug likes this.

Last edited by melbrod; 03-03-2020 at 08:34 AM.
melbrod is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
Dobe_Mom (03-03-2020), falnfenix (03-03-2020), greenkouki (03-03-2020), Rosemary (03-06-2020), VZ-Doberman (03-06-2020), yuki_cos (03-04-2020)
post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 08:39 AM
Big Pup
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 42
Dogs Name: Misha
Dogs Age: DOB 9/24/2019
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit Yulie's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts
Images: 4
   
A breeder can do whatever they want. But if a breeder makes it difficult to get a dog, as difficult as a rescue, I will go to another breeder. It is understandable if a breeder doesn't want to sell you a dog if you are Michael Vicks or you look like a shady character or you are obviously in a situation where you won't be able to care for a dog. But if a breeder refuses to sell a dog because you don't have a pre-approved size yard, there are plenty of other breeders who sell quality dogs and don't ask invasive questions that are, quite frankly, not any of their business.

There is a difference between due diligence and pretentiousness.
Yulie is offline  
post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 08:50 AM
Alpha
 
ECIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 7,806
Location: Indiana
Dogs Name: Kadin aka Mr. Business & Ali
Titles: Blue Ribbon's Every Day
Dogs Age: 2 & 9
Gallery Pics: 341
Visit ECIN's Gallery
Thanks: 24,527
Thanked 29,259 Times in 7,441 Posts
Images: 341
                     
Click here to find out how ECIN became a supporter
Yulie - I can't quit laughing at your last 2 posts ! Thanks for my morning feel good moment

I'm not trying to be mean - and not attacking you - but your inexperience in the " real " world of owning a Doberman is really starting to show .
ECIN is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ECIN For This Useful Post:
Dobe_Mom (03-03-2020), VZ-Doberman (03-06-2020), yuki_cos (03-04-2020)
post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 08:55 AM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 24,036
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Ori AKA Harold DogDog (Hairy Dog), RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Titles: DogDog Mouthe Extraordinaire; Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior
Dogs Age: DogDog 3 yrs?; RIP Kip 11 yrs; Capri 7 yrs; Katana 9 yrs; Caesar 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 80,809
Thanked 65,606 Times in 19,762 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
If they are selling their puppies, it is very much their business to decide whether someone meets their standards; they want each and every puppy to go to a home where it will have a good life.

Every single requirement I listed above has a reason for existing; they are perfectly appropriate and not arbitrary or invasive. Sometimes a prospective puppy owner may not even realize why they might not be a good dog owner for this particular breed--for example, a lot of them may not know about dobes same-sex aggression and the adjustments they may have to make to their lives if their particular dog turns out to have a problem with other dogs. They may not be truly aware of a dobe's need for attention from their owner, which is above that of many breeds. If you want a puppy, it is in YOUR best interests to be told what things might prove to be a problem for you--an unhappy dog with unmet needs will lead to an unhappy owner, and vice versa. Everyone will suffer.
dobebug, ECIN and pamlocke like this.

Last edited by melbrod; 03-03-2020 at 08:57 AM.
melbrod is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (03-06-2020), Cressrb (03-03-2020), dobebug (03-03-2020), ECIN (03-03-2020), falnfenix (03-03-2020), greenkouki (03-03-2020), VZ-Doberman (03-06-2020), yuki_cos (03-04-2020)
post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 09:06 AM
Big Pup
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 42
Dogs Name: Misha
Dogs Age: DOB 9/24/2019
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit Yulie's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts
Images: 4
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECIN View Post
Yulie - I can't quit laughing at your last 2 posts ! Thanks for my morning feel good moment

I'm not trying to be mean - and not attacking you - but your inexperience in the " real " world of owning a Doberman is really starting to show .
Oh please, get off your moral high horse with your "experience" spiel. Experience doesn't mean anything if you spout nonsense and treat this forum as your private Mean Girls club because, OH NOES!, someone disagreed with you. You sound as pretentious as the breeders you talk about. Drop it down a notch or ten.

And why are you putting "real" in quotes? Is there any other world where I have an option of owning a Doberman? World of Warcraft has not released a Doberman companion pet yet, to my knowledge.
Yulie is offline  
post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 09:19 AM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,649
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 49,350
Thanked 63,271 Times in 16,929 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel Anderson View Post
We have been looking and talking about getting a dog. Narrowed it down to the American female Doberman, watched lots of videos and love them. But..... I’m scared, after reading a few posts they seem rather expensive and prone to very expensive illness.

Maybe I read a couple of the downers posts but really has me spooked .

Can someone please give me the low down.

I have heard that rescues are ok are they?

Thank you from Ohio
First off, Rachel, welcome! I'm so glad you found us! Most of us are a great bunch of people. Many have a lot of years of experience in the breed and can be really helpful to you. It can be scary to try and decide about a new dog in general, and for sure a new breed! Take a moment to re-read brw1982's post right below yours - she is a great source of information. Very experienced, and what she says is spot-on. Dobermans can be expensive, and I also recommend pet insurance. But I really would for any dog. Dogs can make poor choices sometimes, that's for sure. Personally, my choice is to find a good, ethical breeder, because those dogs fit my needs. And what melbrod said is correct - any breeder that just hands you a dog without screening isn't a great breeder...both a rescue, and a breeder is going to screen you thoroughly. It's almost like a job interview, on both sides! Rescue can be a great option - I've had a wonderful rescue dog. There are good and bad rescues, just like there are good and bad breeders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulie View Post
Rescues are cheaper but they tend to have very stringent rules making it difficult to adopt. You also may not be getting a puppy. Breeders are more expensive, but you normally don't have to jump through hoops to get a dog. Plus, you'll get a puppy and start from scratch.

I have a European Dobie and he was quite expensive. He is currently going through obedience training and we'll be starting Schutzhund in a few months.

Prepare to spend $$$$ on premium food. Grocery store food won't cut it. Don't listen to vets trying to sell you Science Diet and Royal Canin. Prepare to spend $$$$ on training, otherwise you'll have a 70+ lbs. unruly beast on your hands. There are also vet visits to get the shots, and, monthly flea, tick, and heartworm prevention meds. There are also toys, crates, beds, cleaning supplies, treats, training tools, and other essentials. I don't buy plush toys because they get destroyed within hours. Chew toys and ropes only. And I DEFINITELY don't buy toys that squeak.

Some people report diarrhea issues, so you may go through trial and error when choosing the right food.

If you decide to get the ears cropped, you'll have to be doing ear posting for months. So, you'll need to learn how to do it.
There's a lot of misinformation in this post, and I simply can't let it go. A good rescue DOES screen you thoroughly. They should. If your breeder didn't screen you...I'm afraid to say they were not what I would consider an ethical breeder. They SHOULD screen you. It's not "jumping through hoops." Good breeders want the best match for their puppies. You aren't buying a product. Good breeders have applications, they call references, they talk to you to make sure you are a good fit for their puppies. They match the right puppy to your lifestyle and needs. Additionally, in this country, good breeders crop their puppies ears. It's not a choice left up to the owner to decide.

I won't get too far into the food recommendations, but foods like Purina Proplan are extensively tested and many, many Doberman owners and breeders highly recommend them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulie View Post
The requirements are minimum if any.

There is no easy way to know a person unless you come to their home and start opening cabinets and look at their credit history. A lot of people lie too.

If a breeder sees that you have the money and you are a decent person who knows what they are doing, there is no reason for them not to sell you a dog. My breeder did not get out her clip board and start asking me job interview questions. She saw that I was interested and asked relevant questions. That was enough. At the end, she sold me an excellent dog and I was happy to throw money at her.
This, again, is so incorrect. Income really isn't a determining factor for your suitability for a Doberman. It's whether you are able to meet the needs of the breed. Do you understand their temperament? Can you provide for their mental and physical needs? Of course a basic ability to cover costs are needed, but many people sacrifice a lot to provide for their dogs, and many wealthy people neglect their dogs needs. This is just ridiculous. "Throwing money" at a breeder is probably a great way to get a dog from someone that is out to simply make money, not to produce quality dogs. And, since you reference your "Euro" pup often, I'm even more skeptical of your breeder...I suspect they are someone breeding in the Euro fad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulie View Post
A breeder can do whatever they want. But if a breeder makes it difficult to get a dog, as difficult as a rescue, I will go to another breeder. It is understandable if a breeder doesn't want to sell you a dog if you are Michael Vicks or you look like a shady character or you are obviously in a situation where you won't be able to care for a dog. But if a breeder refuses to sell a dog because you don't have a pre-approved size yard, there are plenty of other breeders who sell quality dogs and don't ask invasive questions that are, quite frankly, not any of their business.

There is a difference between due diligence and pretentiousness.
Having no patience to wait for a well-bred dog doesn't speak well of the buyer. Most good breeders would not sell to someone who isn't able to wait.

You show no understanding of what quality breeding is.
dobebug likes this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT L1V L1E L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG DOG TKN WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (03-03-2020), Control_Freak (03-03-2020), CRDobe (03-03-2020), dobebug (03-07-2020), Dobe_Mom (03-03-2020), ECIN (03-03-2020), falnfenix (03-03-2020), greenkouki (03-03-2020), melbrod (03-03-2020), Rosemary (03-06-2020), VZ-Doberman (03-06-2020), yuki_cos (03-04-2020)
post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 10:03 AM
Big Pup
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 42
Dogs Name: Misha
Dogs Age: DOB 9/24/2019
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit Yulie's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts
Images: 4
   
A "good" rescue screening you thoroughly through requiring multiple home visits, 12 references and a 10 page application makes it NOT a good rescue. This creates a lot of red tape and turns away potential dog owners. A lot of rescues reject applications for minor reasons because they care more about getting funding rather than placing dogs. This is the reason why there are so many dogs in rescues.

As far as buying goes, not wanting to answer 100 questions and provide 3 pages of references does not make anyone a bad buyer. I know what I want, I have the money, if you are going to make me jump through hoops before we can engage in a transaction, I will go elsewhere.

Mel,

I know exactly what quality breeding is. Acting pretentious and turning away potential buyers who don't satisfy your every minor XYZ does not make anyone a quality breeder. Quality breeders care about breeding good dogs and placing them in good homes, not to play control freaks.

Last edited by Yulie; 03-03-2020 at 10:06 AM.
Yulie is offline  
post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 10:36 AM
ZuriBug
 
pamlocke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 148
Location: Pawleys Island SC
Dogs Name: Zuri and Rascal
Dogs Age: 7 and 7
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit pamlocke's Gallery
Thanks: 37
Thanked 517 Times in 137 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how pamlocke became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulie View Post
The requirements are minimum if any.

There is no easy way to know a person unless you come to their home and start opening cabinets and look at their credit history. A lot of people lie too.

If a breeder sees that you have the money and you are a decent person who knows what they are doing, there is no reason for them not to sell you a dog. My breeder did not get out her clip board and start asking me job interview questions. She saw that I was interested and asked relevant questions. That was enough. At the end, she sold me an excellent dog and I was happy to throw money at her.
Most times, after listening/reading responses like this, I just chalk it up to the individuals personal lack of capability to take in and comprehend information. Yours seems to be a bit of that as well as you negating any information the other posters have put on the forum. Unless you have worked at a shelter or bred your own animals, maybe you don't know what it feels like to put your lifes work or passion into someones else hands......I feel like many people qualify to be pet owners but not all of those people deserve to own an animal. Many animals come back to shelters and end up in shelters because of their owners belief that they could do it.

Doberman breeders know what it takes to own one and an ethical responsible breeder wants to see their puppies succeed and NOT come back or be rehomed. By doing everything they can in their power to see that happen doesn't make them a narcissist. Does that make sense to you? If not, I refer you back to my first statement.
dobebug and ECIN like this.
pamlocke is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to pamlocke For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (03-03-2020), VZ-Doberman (03-06-2020), yuki_cos (03-04-2020)
post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 10:44 AM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 24,036
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Ori AKA Harold DogDog (Hairy Dog), RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Titles: DogDog Mouthe Extraordinaire; Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior
Dogs Age: DogDog 3 yrs?; RIP Kip 11 yrs; Capri 7 yrs; Katana 9 yrs; Caesar 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 80,809
Thanked 65,606 Times in 19,762 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
Rachel, you're asking good questions--it's always better to ask before jumping into something. Compliments to you.

I'd like to echo what Meadowcat said above; it says what I would say, only better :

First off, Rachel, welcome! I'm so glad you found us! Most of us are a great bunch of people. Many have a lot of years of experience in the breed and can be really helpful to you. It can be scary to try and decide about a new dog in general, and for sure a new breed! Take a moment to re-read brw1982's post right below yours - she is a great source of information. Very experienced, and what she says is spot-on. Dobermans can be expensive, and I also recommend pet insurance. But I really would for any dog. Dogs can make poor choices sometimes, that's for sure. Personally, my choice is to find a good, ethical breeder, because those dogs fit my needs. And what melbrod said is correct - any breeder that just hands you a dog without screening isn't a great breeder...both a rescue, and a breeder is going to screen you thoroughly. It's almost like a job interview, on both sides! Rescue can be a great option - I've had a wonderful rescue dog. There are good and bad rescues, just like there are good and bad breeders.
melbrod is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
ECIN (03-03-2020), falnfenix (03-03-2020), MeadowCat (03-03-2020), Rosemary (03-06-2020), yuki_cos (03-04-2020)
post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 11:30 AM
Big Pup
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 42
Dogs Name: Misha
Dogs Age: DOB 9/24/2019
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit Yulie's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts
Images: 4
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamlocke View Post
Most times, after listening/reading responses like this, I just chalk it up to the individuals personal lack of capability to take in and comprehend information. Yours seems to be a bit of that as well as you negating any information the other posters have put on the forum. Unless you have worked at a shelter or bred your own animals, maybe you don't know what it feels like to put your lifes work or passion into someones else hands......I feel like many people qualify to be pet owners but not all of those people deserve to own an animal. Many animals come back to shelters and end up in shelters because of their owners belief that they could do it.

Doberman breeders know what it takes to own one and an ethical responsible breeder wants to see their puppies succeed and NOT come back or be rehomed. By doing everything they can in their power to see that happen doesn't make them a narcissist. Does that make sense to you? If not, I refer you back to my first statement.
So, if 100 "experienced" Doberman owners tell me that saying "no" to a dog is abusive and I say "I don't agree with that", this must be due to my "lack of capability to take in and comprehend information", and not due to the fact that this information is sketchy. I do prefer quality over quantity.

Screening potential buyers for obvious flaws v. rejecting potential buys because they don't have a backyard are two completely different things. People often lie and there is no way of knowing whether a person is qualified unless a breeder gets involved in every aspect of their lives, which is not going to happen. I feel like I am running in circles explaining this difference. A responsible breeder is not going to sell to someone who is obviously not qualified to own a dog. But if a breeder has an extra-stringent, detailed checklist that every buyer must satisfy, this is not responsible but over-reaching.

This is the problem with rescues nowadays. They are more concerned that potential buyers check every box on their 20 page applications, rather than re-homing their dogs.
Yulie is offline  
post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 11:36 AM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,649
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 49,350
Thanked 63,271 Times in 16,929 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulie View Post
So, if 100 "experienced" Doberman owners tell me that saying "no" to a dog is abusive and I say "I don't agree with that", this must be due to my "lack of capability to take in and comprehend information", and not due to the fact that this information is sketchy. I do prefer quality over quantity.

Screening potential buyers for obvious flaws v. rejecting potential buys because they don't have a backyard are two completely different things. People often lie and there is no way of knowing whether a person is qualified unless a breeder gets involved in every aspect of their lives, which is not going to happen. I feel like I am running in circles explaining this difference. A responsible breeder is not going to sell to someone who is obviously not qualified to own a dog. But if a breeder has an extra-stringent, detailed checklist that every buyer must satisfy, this is not responsible but over-reaching.

This is the problem with rescues nowadays. They are more concerned that potential buyers check every box on their 20 page applications, rather than re-homing their dogs.
Simply untrue.

{Mod hat on} This thread can get back on topic now, so we can help Rachel, rather than scare her off. Engaging the inflammatory posts by Yulie isn't helpful, and I get it - it's easy to be pulled off-topic. Further posts on this topic will risk users getting a potential warning and/or temporary ban from DT.
dobebug and 4x4bike ped like this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT L1V L1E L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG DOG TKN WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
falnfenix (03-03-2020), melbrod (03-03-2020), yuki_cos (03-04-2020)
post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 11:37 AM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 24,036
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Ori AKA Harold DogDog (Hairy Dog), RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Titles: DogDog Mouthe Extraordinaire; Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior
Dogs Age: DogDog 3 yrs?; RIP Kip 11 yrs; Capri 7 yrs; Katana 9 yrs; Caesar 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 80,809
Thanked 65,606 Times in 19,762 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
We've all made our points here about rescues vs breeders...time to move on.

Does anyone have anything to add about the question of doberman health and the costs of owning one??
melbrod is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (03-04-2020), MeadowCat (03-03-2020), VZ-Doberman (03-06-2020), yuki_cos (03-04-2020)
post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2020, 11:54 AM
ಠ_ಠ
 
falnfenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,487
Location: Baltimore
Dogs Name: Ripley; R.I.P. Deckard
Titles: WAC
Dogs Age: DOB 7/8/13
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit falnfenix's Gallery
Thanks: 17,263
Thanked 14,281 Times in 4,709 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel Anderson View Post
We have been looking and talking about getting a dog. Narrowed it down to the American female Doberman, watched lots of videos and love them. But..... I’m scared, after reading a few posts they seem rather expensive and prone to very expensive illness.

Maybe I read a couple of the downers posts but really has me spooked .

Can someone please give me the low down.

I have heard that rescues are ok are they?

Thank you from Ohio
Well bred or rescue, you should consider the following annual health testing (which will vary based on your location):
24 hour holter
echocardiogram
full senior blood panel, to include full thyroid testing

This is something EVERYONE should do to stay on top of your dog's internal health. Cardio issues are the big killer, and low thyroid/hypothyroid is really common. You'll want baselines of everything at the age of 2, and annual testing after that. I don't know what it costs in your area, but I can say the blood testing in my area is under $200. I usually use an echo clinic to cut costs down (usually around $250-300), and I use our club's holter to keep that cost down.

This is in addition to the usual annual vet bills. If your dog were to develop hypothyroidism, there is medication to keep it functioning normally. If your dog were to develop DCM/dilated cardiomyopathy, there is medication to keep your dog's heart as healthy as you can.

The problem is there's no way to guarantee your dog won't develop DCM. I would consider whether you can handle suddenly losing your dog to something we all fear, or watching your dog live with congestive heart failure. Both of these are possibilities with this disease.

I'm a HUGE fan of the breed, but I'm not sure my next dog will be a Dobe. My bitch's dam dropped dead before the age of 6, and Rip's hitting 7 this year. I'll admit I'm terrified, every day, of losing her, even with good echos and holters.

“I am the sea witch. I am the tide you fear and the turning you can't deny. I am the sound of the waves running over your bones on the beach, little man, and I am not amused at finding you on my doorstep.”
- the Luidaeg, Chimes at Midnight

DPCA Chapter Club: http://www.mbdpc.net/
Regional rescue: http://www.dobe.net/
falnfenix is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to falnfenix For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (03-03-2020), Artemis (03-03-2020), ECIN (03-03-2020), Fitzmar Dobermans (03-06-2020), melbrod (03-03-2020), Rosemary (03-06-2020), VZ-Doberman (03-06-2020), yuki_cos (03-04-2020)
post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-06-2020, 04:34 PM
Alpha
 
Fitzmar Dobermans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,163
Location: S. E. Pennsylvania
Dogs Name: Harvard, Jezebel, & Mabel
Titles: AKC CH & GrCh, RN, CGC & CGCA
Dogs Age: 12/20/07, 2/26/12, and 2/26/18
Gallery Pics: 13
Visit Fitzmar Dobermans's Gallery
Thanks: 4,178
Thanked 20,443 Times in 4,512 Posts
Images: 13
                     
Click here to find out how Fitzmar Dobermans became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulie View Post
A breeder can do whatever they want. But if a breeder makes it difficult to get a dog, as difficult as a rescue, I will go to another breeder. It is understandable if a breeder doesn't want to sell you a dog if you are Michael Vicks or you look like a shady character or you are obviously in a situation where you won't be able to care for a dog. But if a breeder refuses to sell a dog because you don't have a pre-approved size yard, there are plenty of other breeders who sell quality dogs and don't ask invasive questions that are, quite frankly, not any of their business.

There is a difference between due diligence and pretentiousness.
As a breeder, I really do have to laugh at this post. Sure, you can find a "breeder" to sell you a Doberman...... but if you are looking to buy a really high quality dog from a very reputable breeder, then be prepared for a lot of questions. I do check references, and do home checks .... and so do reputable rescues.

Mary Jo Ansel
Fitzmar


AKC GRCH/UKC CH Fitzmar's Command A Minute CGC "Harvard"
Fitzmar's Victory Hop Devil RN CGC "Jezebel"
Ch Jalyn One Moment Please "Mabel"
Fitzmar Dobermans is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Fitzmar Dobermans For This Useful Post:
MeadowCat (03-06-2020), Rosemary (03-06-2020), VZ-Doberman (03-06-2020)
post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-06-2020, 05:14 PM
Got mutt?
 
Rosemary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 13,423
Location: Southeast Texas
Dogs Name: Leo (GSD); Lily (APBT)
Titles: They do, and are working on more
Dogs Age: Leo 7; Lily 5; Ilka 2009-2017; Lucky 2000-2014
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Rosemary's Gallery
Thanks: 40,008
Thanked 32,453 Times in 10,659 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulie View Post
A breeder can do whatever they want. But if a breeder makes it difficult to get a dog, as difficult as a rescue, I will go to another breeder. It is understandable if a breeder doesn't want to sell you a dog if you are Michael Vicks or you look like a shady character or you are obviously in a situation where you won't be able to care for a dog. But if a breeder refuses to sell a dog because you don't have a pre-approved size yard, there are plenty of other breeders who sell quality dogs and don't ask invasive questions that are, quite frankly, not any of their business.

There is a difference between due diligence and pretentiousness.
Personally, I would be very leery of a breeder who sell to anyone willing to fork over the cash, no (or minimal) questions asked.

Running a credit report or background check on you would probably be "none of their business". Making sure that any puppy they sell you will be adequately cared for, including safe confinement, is their business.


~~The Current Hellhounds~~
ADP-CH Lily Dale- A Melody Unchained ETD PKD-T PKD-N ADP-L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/L3(Pr)/L2 (GC) GPS-SST OD-WD3
S-ADP-CH CA Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria ETD D-CRO-Preliminary PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L1(Pr)/L2(Pr)/3(Pr)/L2(GC) GPS-SST OD-WD3
~~Requiescat In Pace~~
Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CA CGC TKP ETD CRO-1 D-CRO-Preliminary NCO-1 PKD-T PKD-N S-ADP-L4 ~2009-2017~
Lucky Rat Dog CGC ~2000-2014~
“Dance as if no one who is qualified to commit you is watching!”
Rosemary is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Rosemary For This Useful Post:
MeadowCat (03-06-2020)
post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-06-2020, 05:25 PM
Big Pup
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 42
Dogs Name: Misha
Dogs Age: DOB 9/24/2019
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit Yulie's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts
Images: 4
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzmar Dobermans View Post
As a breeder, I really do have to laugh at this post. Sure, you can find a "breeder" to sell you a Doberman...... but if you are looking to buy a really high quality dog from a very reputable breeder, then be prepared for a lot of questions. I do check references, and do home checks .... and so do reputable rescues.
I am laughing back at your self-importance. You are one breeder and you are certainly not an authority of how "reputable'" breeders should act and what makes a "reputable" breeder reputable. If you want to check references, that's your prerogative. Other breeders make it much easier to buy from them and they are just as "reputable" as you are. If I wanted to jump through hoops, I'd go with a rescue which would cost me far less. Asking certain questions is more than enough. Once you start going overboard, demanding home checks and my first born child, that's a sign that I would be better off not dealing with you. What an obnoxious way to do business. Plus, references can easily lie. But, so long as you feel good about yourself, that's what matters , am I right?

Rescues are not in the business of re-homing dogs but to get funding, otherwise, their facilities would not be filled with dogs.
Yulie is offline  
post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-06-2020, 06:19 PM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,649
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 49,350
Thanked 63,271 Times in 16,929 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulie View Post
I am laughing back at your self-importance. You are one breeder and you are certainly not an authority of how "reputable'" breeders should act and what makes a "reputable" breeder reputable. If you want to check references, that's your prerogative. Other breeders make it much easier to buy from them and they are just as "reputable" as you are. If I wanted to jump through hoops, I'd go with a rescue which would cost me far less. Asking certain questions is more than enough. Once you start going overboard, demanding home checks and my first born child, that's a sign that I would be better off not dealing with you. What an obnoxious way to do business. Plus, references can easily lie. But, so long as you feel good about yourself, that's what matters , am I right?

Rescues are not in the business of re-homing dogs but to get funding, otherwise, their facilities would not be filled with dogs.
(Moderator hat on) Consider this an official warning - you need to take a moment to re-read the forum rules and our philosophy here. This forum specifically supports ethical breeding practices, which includes the type of breeder practices Fitzmar talks about, and specifically *excludes* the types of breeding practices you are continually supporting. If you are not open to considering learning why and having an open mind, this may not be the forum for you. https://www.dobermantalk.com/new-mem...st-5-2011.html (Moderator hat off)

You have a very misguided view of ethical rescues, too. Sure, there are unethical rescues, just like there are unethical breeders.
dobebug and Control_Freak like this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT L1V L1E L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG DOG TKN WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
dobebug (03-07-2020), melbrod (03-06-2020), VZ-Doberman (03-06-2020)
post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-06-2020, 06:47 PM
Alpha
 
Fitzmar Dobermans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,163
Location: S. E. Pennsylvania
Dogs Name: Harvard, Jezebel, & Mabel
Titles: AKC CH & GrCh, RN, CGC & CGCA
Dogs Age: 12/20/07, 2/26/12, and 2/26/18
Gallery Pics: 13
Visit Fitzmar Dobermans's Gallery
Thanks: 4,178
Thanked 20,443 Times in 4,512 Posts
Images: 13
                     
Click here to find out how Fitzmar Dobermans became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
(Moderator hat on) Consider this an official warning - you need to take a moment to re-read the forum rules and our philosophy here. This forum specifically supports ethical breeding practices, which includes the type of breeder practices Fitzmar talks about, and specifically *excludes* the types of breeding practices you are continually supporting. If you are not open to considering learning why and having an open mind, this may not be the forum for you. https://www.dobermantalk.com/new-mem...st-5-2011.html (Moderator hat off)

You have a very misguided view of ethical rescues, too. Sure, there are unethical rescues, just like there are unethical breeders.
Sorry MeadowCat - did not see your post to stop responding to this guy. Classic bait stuff that we have all seen way too many times over the years.
dobebug and pamlocke like this.

Mary Jo Ansel
Fitzmar


AKC GRCH/UKC CH Fitzmar's Command A Minute CGC "Harvard"
Fitzmar's Victory Hop Devil RN CGC "Jezebel"
Ch Jalyn One Moment Please "Mabel"
Fitzmar Dobermans is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Fitzmar Dobermans For This Useful Post:
falnfenix (03-07-2020), MeadowCat (03-06-2020), melbrod (03-06-2020), VZ-Doberman (03-06-2020)
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome