I know this is an oft discussed topic but... kibble for DCM - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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I know this is an oft discussed topic but... kibble for DCM

Hi all, it’s been a few years since my Dobe boy passed and I am a little out of the loop w my new Dobe girl... I have tried looking up threads on here about recommended kibbles to prevent DCM. I didn’t readily find anything that was recent but it could be I just didn’t do a good search. Feel free to share threads I didn’t find if this topic bores the hell out of you by now.

I respect the advice of my Dobe’s breeder as to what kibble to buy while she is growing (large breed kibble) and finally grown, different one same brand, but it is a kibble I have to order every time, and occasionally I just want to pick up something locally if I suddenly run out. It happens, you know suddenly you are about out and it’s the weekend and Amazon ain’t gonna save you for a few days.

So since meat only kibble seem to be associated with an increased risk of DCM, which is all new to me trying to get back in the Dobe information loop again, what do you guys use? Also I did read about eggs and taurine so I am thinking to give her a raw egg per day, sound good?
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 08:56 AM
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The type of DCM dobermans get is genetic so the best way to "prevent" DCM is to purchase your puppy from a reputable breeder who is breeding dogs with limited cardio related deaths in the pedigree. Still, it's a bit of a gamble. If you are worried about DCM then don't buy another puppy from that breeder if it's a similar pedigree to the dog you lost to DCM. I do think it's important to find a quality food for your dog but it's not going to prevent the disease from coming on. Good luck!
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks GK, I believe I have done due diligence in that department. Just wondered if there was more I could do...
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 09:24 AM
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RE taurine and Doberman DCM, here's a DT discussion of that issue:
https://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...d-renamed.html
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Last edited by melbrod; 06-25-2019 at 09:33 AM.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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Thankyou Melbrod

OK thanks.. so since I have to buy them food today, you guys don’t think it’s a big deal if it is meat only... ? I have been buying TOTW when I run out of the one I have to order...

I’ll read the link.. I did read some already but kibble brands not discussed too much, maybe it really doesn't matter as long as it’s higher quality vs junky brand

I’m thinking about adding some raw meat, I know with my cats there is said to be taurine in the raw I believe from the organ meat. Anyway I like the idea of a mix of mostly kibble or I’d go broke, supplemented with some human grade meat. When I borrowed a poodle from a local breeder for awhile to see if I wanted one she suggested medium low-fat content hamburger or else ground chicken breast. There are also more whole prey burgers formulated for dogs that I can get from local pet store.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 09:43 AM
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Dogs synthesize taurine naturally; cats do not. There are some breeds of dogs where taurine deficiency does seem to contribute to their development of DCM (American Cocker Spaniel, Golden Retriever, Labrador Retriever, Saint Bernard, Newfoundland and English Setter), but dobermans do not seem to have that "variety" of DCM problems. I suppose ensuring there is taurine is in your dog's diet can't hurt, but DCM in dobermans seems to be genetically inherited with a different etiology.

See especially post #28 in the thread I referenced for a (relatively) recent explanation of what we know about taurine deficiency in dogs.


Some folks here who have been in dobes for a long time use Purina Pro Plan diets (esp. ProPlan Focus Sensitive Skin and Stomach, salmon); it is a decent food and a little more affordable than many kibbles. But there are many varieties of kibble available. I think the consensus is that some of the "designer" foods don't have a lot of testing behind their particular dietary content, but that it really comes down to whatever food your dog does well on...lots of energy, shiny coat, good skin, good "poop". Every dog is just a little different when it comes to what food they do well on.

Feeding Raw is a whole 'nother topic in and of itself. If you decide to go that way, do some research, because it is very important that the dog gets the proper nutrients in his diet...raw feeding takes some knowledge and planning to ensure this. Once you've got it down, you're set to go, but there are things to consider as you set up your dog's diet.
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Last edited by melbrod; 06-25-2019 at 10:18 AM.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 09:58 AM
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I personally avoid the "grain-free" diets, just because I think it is a fad that has not been researched properly, and I don't see any reason to pay a premium price for it.
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Last edited by melbrod; 06-25-2019 at 10:13 AM. Reason: spelling
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 10:04 AM Thread Starter
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Ok I read the thread, as much as I could speed read through it. Wow you guys really did your research and Meadowcat blew it out of the park with his/her posts, I will be saving to understand the cats more as well since I am way into my cats.

At the very end it did mention what kibbles may be associated more than others with DCM although the whole topic sounds so mysterious and vague, such a puzzle to solve. TOTW was mentioned as one of the ones maybe best to avoid so I won’t buy it anymore.

It’s good to know about ProPlan I remember buying the one with salmon years ago for the Dobe boy, he had had gut resection due to his pica and it seemed good for his digestive tract. It’s good to know that the ones recommended as possibly better for DCM are actually cheaper!! The one my new girl’s breeder recommended is Royal Canin large puppy and then Royal Canin Boxer once a true adult. From my point of view as a cat breeder, RC is known to have a high sugar content, but I know she has studied Dobe health a heck of a lot more than I have so I have been buying it. It is a bit spendy though and I have to order it or else drive a long ways to get it.

Thanks for the thread recommendation and kibble ones too...
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 10:19 AM
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Update: That's post # 28 in above mentioned thread...I misprinted.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 08:55 PM
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We have 2 Vets, both awesome....pick the very best !!

- the local surgeon is gifted and knows Dobermans, almost retired now...practicing 40 years
- he also specializes in acupuncture & chiropractor, and race horse owners, seek him out

- the Holistic Vet graduated in 1968, and tops in Canada / ill health now

The surgeon operated on our last girl with pyrametro and on her death bed @ 9.5 years old.
- he preformed a miracle operation, and revived our girl in septic shock 3-4 times
- risky surgery extended an extra hour, Dr. Vern and old Amy never gave up
- she died of multiple strokes, in the middle of the night, at 11.7 y/o
- we were blessed, for another 2.2 amazing years, from Dads heart dog

Our Holistic Vet was way ahead of her peers, and she only home cooked...for her pets.


^^ So what does this have to do with DCM ?

We know little about it, but only buy from top breeders (with Longevity)...something we can control.
- 1977 Canadian breeder, had over 50 championships in her line
- 2000 Canadian breeder, had over 50 championships in her line
- 2012 USA breeder, had over 50 championships in her line

PS - Long term statistical Average // Male live to 9-1/4 years & FM live to 9.5 years.
- over 10 years of age, is a milestone...to celebrate

1977 girl passed @ 9.5 years old...cancer, but only crap kibble available, decades ago
2000 girl passed @ 11.7 years old...on top Holistic kibble & Organic treats
2012 girl now 6.75 years old...and on Royal Canin Low Fat Gastro Vet kibble + Moms Homemade cooked white meat/Veggy stew - her soft stools, now a thing of the past.
- our Dr. Vern had the knowledge to tell us, she was suffering from to high a meat content (on Orijen)
- and he told us how to make healthy Low Fat/High Carb with the 20% kibble protein mixed in

Every dog is Different - but we strive for 4-5 star type eats, nothing less for our dogs...big or small.

Sons little Trevor, turned 13 y/o...we love him to death to.
- but we can control what is put in our dogs mouth (balanced diet), the expert Vet care they receive & the experienced show Breeder, to start with


------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 11:38 AM
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Dobermans do have genetic DCM. Does that mean they *can't* get the nutritional DCM? We don't know that yet. I had a pretty long conversation with our cardiologist about the research being done on nutritional DCM just about a month ago. She's seen quite a few dogs in her practice diagnosed with nutritional DCM, of a variety of breeds. Many of them are seeing improvement in the disease with a switch to a WSAVA compliant food. Our cardiologist is working really closely with one of our local board certified veterinary nutritionists to do as much as possible to learn and to treat her clients as best as she can, and is keeping up with all the research. I personally know a dog that was diagnosed who was fed a balanced raw diet, too. If you're going to feed raw, I'd really encourage you to work with a board certified nutritionist.

Everyone has their own comfort level and will make their own choices about food. What I will say is this isn't just an issue of grain free foods (as I've discussed extensively in the thread linked above). For example, one of the foods with a reasonably high number of cases of nutritional DCM is Fromm, and it's not all their grain-free varieties. Quite a few cases are of their grain-inclusive formulas. I won't get into much more here, I'll keep it to the other thread, but I'm seriously disappointed that these large companies continue to spend their money in marketing their foods, rather than in hiring qualified people to formulate their foods.

In any case, my dogs are on Proplan and do great on it. I know dogs doing great on Eukanuba and on Royal Canin. I *personally* feel more comfortable feeding a food with lots of research behind it, formulated by qualified people, with extensive feeding trials, and peer reviewed research. Your mileage may vary, as the saying goes.
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