Greetings! Ear Cropping Nightmare :( - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Greetings! Ear Cropping Nightmare :(

Hello Everyone!

I just want to greet everyone on this forum and start with a big thank you. The forum has already been very helpful with different subjects.

We have cropped Hera's ears here in Houston. However, her stitches have already popped once (from the bottom part on the left ear) and now the right ear is looking similar to how the left ear looked like when the stitch popped (yellow tint and white meat showing). They charged us 65$ to stitch up the left ear only and it seems like they added an extra stitch on bottom compared to the right ear (which now is looking very bad). We are extremely worried about her. She's our first Dobie girl and this is our first cropping. Everything seems to be going wrong with this procedure. Her ears have also been posted and taped already since day one of the surgery (the tech said that this avoids any ear shrinking and ensures that the ears stand better). I can only imagine that the stitches are having issues not only holding the ear's wound, but now the stitch has to hold the ear together under the pressure of the posts. She's back in her regular cone and has no access to her ears. She's on tranquilizers and sleeps all the time so "head shaking" is out of the question to her stitches popping. Please, if you can provide any feedback, I would greatly appreciate it.
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post #2 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 12:24 PM
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Welcome to DT. Can you post a photo? you should be able to upload it to a site like flickr or imgur or even facebook. Then just copy and paste the link here on DT so we can see. Who cropped the pup's ears? Have you reached out to your breeder or local DPCA chapter club for help?
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post #3 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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We don't have a breeder. Give me till the end of the day to figure out how to upload the image. The ears are all taped up and it's extremely hard to see. They use a very sticky Johnson&Johnson tape to wrap her ears. The place is called EarTrim and it had lots of positive reviews.
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post #4 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 01:05 PM Thread Starter
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Here are some photos of Hera's right ear.

Hera's Ear 1 by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Hera's Ear 2 by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Hera's Ear 3 by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr
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post #5 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 01:15 PM
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Unless your vet has given you specific directions for your puppy, having to do with the additional procedures they’ve done, extra stitches, etc. (not general “this is how we always do it” info).....

There should be NO tape over unhealed cut surfaces. The cut areas should be allowed to air-dry.

You can use baby oil to help dissolve the glue on the tape so you can slide it off easier. Then allow her ears to dangle or tape them tip to tip over the top of her head until the cuts have healed completely.

Do you have access to another vet in the area who is familiar with the after-care of cropped ears? It might be worth it to get a second opinion about how to take care of her ears post-surgery.

I wish I could refer you to someone local to talk to, but I’m not familiar with your area....maybe someone else here can. Anyone?
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post #6 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
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Stitches

Here is a picture of her without the tape. They sent her home with us like this after she had popped the stitch on the bottom of this left ear (Saturday). They asked us to take her back to post her ears the following day (Sunday) because the ears were too inflamed after the stitching process.

Hera's Stitches by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr
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post #7 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 01:26 PM
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Her ears should not be posted with any tape covering the cut edges until the stitches are removed and they are fully healed. That's 95% of your problem here! They need to air dry and heal on their own. Unwrap them NOW and clean them with warm soapy water. Better yet take her to the vet and have them taken care of it and be sure they do not charge you anything to take care of this. This is completely their fault for giving you the wrong post crop instructions. This vet is incompetent and I wouldn't bring them any more business after this.
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post #8 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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Melbrod, will the cone be enough to stop her from getting at her ears if I tape the tips over her head? When we went on Saturday, she was yelping a lot when they ripped the tape off her ears to check the sutures. And she had lots of sticky residue on her ears. They did not use any type of solvent to remove the tape safely. There is no other vet that I know in this area that deals with ear cropping like that clinic. They are supposed to be the best in the Houston area. I will be traveling home to the Rio Grande Valley for Thanksgiving and I know a vet that has done some ear cropping. I will consult with him when I go. If her stitch has popped, will it heal on its own?
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post #9 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 02:03 PM
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Oh dear...I don't think they could have done many more things wrong. The tech is wrong--posting the ear immediately after cropping doesn't prevent shrinkage (ears don't shrink from being cropped) and it doesn't help them stand better in the long run.

Also it seems to me that I've heard something about Ear Trim and their crops and aftercare but I'll have to go an look and see if I can find it.

As Melbrod said--those ears need to come down immediately. Use lots of oil of any kind to get the tape to release--work it loose with a q-tip saturated in oil or you fingers and I'd let those ears just dangle--I wouldn't even try to tape them across the top of her had.

Ears cropped by a vet should be an all inclusive price and the vets I know who crop would NEVER charge extra to take care of a popped stitch. But then the vets I know who crop would never post a newly cropped ear and would not be using Elasticon tape on them.

And I have a question for you--did they say anything about removing the stitches? I'm not sure but the sutures in the ear almost look like dissolvable type material. The suture material is certainly much heavier than anything that I usually see used--I did work on a couple of puppies six or seven years ago where the vet did use dissolvable sutures--NOT common practice.

Do you know the name of the vet who did the actual crop? I found the name of a vet in the Houston area who is a DPCA member--beyond that I know nothing about her. Her name is Melanie Walker DVM, e-mail is [email protected] At least her vet clinic should know something about helping you get those ears down without creating mre problems for the puppy.

The tape that they have used to tape the ear appears to be Elastican tape--not only is it very sticky it's also stretchy and so far from the type of tape that should EVER be used on ears (any ears, not just newly cropped ears) that I can hardly believe anyone who had ever dealt with a cropped ear would use it.

Also in Katy, Texas (my knowledge of Texas geography is unfortunately sketchy) is a very good cropper of Dobermans. Kathy McLemore DVM who might also be of help here.

I wish you the best of luck with this-and I am so sorry your poor puppy has had to go through this. I'd also want to ask another vet about the tranquilizers she's getting--most vets try not go give lots of tranquilizers to puppies nor to give them for extended periods of time. Let us know what happens.
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post #10 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hera View Post
Melbrod, will the cone be enough to stop her from getting at her ears if I tape the tips over her head? When we went on Saturday, she was yelping a lot when they ripped the tape off her ears to check the sutures. And she had lots of sticky residue on her ears. They did not use any type of solvent to remove the tape safely. There is no other vet that I know in this area that deals with ear cropping like that clinic. They are supposed to be the best in the Houston area. I will be traveling home to the Rio Grande Valley for Thanksgiving and I know a vet that has done some ear cropping. I will consult with him when I go. If her stitch has popped, will it heal on its own?
Contact someone here for local help.

Contact DPCH | Doberman Pinscher Club of Houston | DPCH

The yellow discharge would be more of a concern to me than a torn missing stitch. No need for the e-collar either. It would just rub on her already sore ears and make her more miserable.
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post #11 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 02:07 PM
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I am having a hard time interpreting your pic. Would it be possible to take and post a few with your girl sitting or standing?

Thanks and welcome!

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post #12 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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Removal of the Sticky tape

Ok, I will get in contact with Dr. Kathy McLemore later today. I am going to attempt to remove the tape and the posts when I get home. I am going to buy baby oil and use q-tips to wedge the oil in-between the tape and the ears. After removing the tape slowly, I will wash the ears with warm/soapy water. I am going to leave the e-collar on since I'm afraid of her doing more damage to her stitches and hurting herself. If I see that the stitch has popped on the right side, I will go tomorrow to EarTrim to demand a restitch on her. I'm sick of seeing my girl in pain. I never thought this was going to be our experience with ear cropping. If I do decide to tape her tips over her head, what tape brand should I use?

Once again, I appreciate all the help you all are providing me.
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post #13 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Also, in concern to the stitches being removed, the stitches were to be removed 10-14 days after the cropping. The stitch removal is going to be 30$
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post #14 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 02:31 PM
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When you put the oil on let it soak into the tape for a few minutes . So sorry you are going through this......Hoss was my first post and oh how insecure I was.... stay on this forum..they will help you.

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post #15 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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More photos/Tranquilizer Info

So I should leave her ears like how they are in the images below? The tranquilizer they gave her was acepromazine (25mg). The dosage was supposed to be 1.5 pills every 12 hours for the next 7 days, but we have only been giving her 1 (25mg) pill every 12 hours

Hera Crop Again by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

More Crop by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Hera's Vet visit by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Stitch by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr
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post #16 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 03:10 PM
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Most pups won’t need a tranquilizer. They get cropped and are bouncing around like normal the next day or so.

Did she get a shot or pills for pain?

I’d see how she does without the ace.


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post #17 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 03:28 PM
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Never ever heard of a vet charging for suture removal on a surgery that he/she had performed. And ace for 7 days seems pretty drastic!
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post #18 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
Most pups won’t need a tranquilizer. They get cropped and are bouncing around like normal the next day or so.

Did she get a shot or pills for pain?

I’d see how she does without the ace.

The tranquilizers were so she wouldn't shake her head since that's why the vet said she was popping her sutures. They weren't for pain. We got a painkiller/anti-inflammatory for her for the first 7 days. These are just to calm her down. I hate seeing her all drowsy, though. I rather just follow everyone's advice and proceed with the removal of the sticky tape from her newly sutured ear.
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post #19 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 03:40 PM
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Go see Dr. Crouch in Katy, TX at Grand Park Animal Clinic. She is equipped to help you. Grand Park Animal Clinic
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post #20 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 03:56 PM
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Wow, that makes me sad.
I am no good offering help in times like these.

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post #21 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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Go see Dr. Crouch in Katy, TX at Grand Park Animal Clinic. She is equipped to help you. Grand Park Animal Clinic
Thanks for the info!
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post #22 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 04:14 PM
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Grand Park is my personal vet clinic. Dr. Crouch isn't in the office much these days (she's a retired Dobe breeder and has cropped for many, many years), but her staff is well versed in dealing with ears. Try to grab the first available appointment they have. They're on S Mason in Katy. 281-392-3127.

As others have said, keep the tape off. Do not return to ear trim . com either. Whoever recommended them is not someone I'd go to for advice either.
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post #23 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hera View Post
Ok, I will get in contact with Dr. Kathy McLemore later today. I am going to attempt to remove the tape and the posts when I get home. I am going to buy baby oil and use q-tips to wedge the oil in-between the tape and the ears. After removing the tape slowly, I will wash the ears with warm/soapy water. I am going to leave the e-collar on since I'm afraid of her doing more damage to her stitches and hurting herself. If I see that the stitch has popped on the right side, I will go tomorrow to EarTrim to demand a restitch on her. I'm sick of seeing my girl in pain. I never thought this was going to be our experience with ear cropping. If I do decide to tape her tips over her head, what tape brand should I use?

Once again, I appreciate all the help you all are providing me.
If nothing else Dr Crouch, (I think I blew the name of the vet in Katy and MeadowCat) put in a link for the actual clinic)--should be able to refer you to someone in Houston who can either resuture the base if you do have another popped suture. (However, if it's the top suture most croppers will just leave the ear base a little more open rather than try to repair the base suture. It's tough to get a good join down there without debriding both sides of the opening where the pulled suture is. If it's the top sutures, leaving it open isn't that big a deal--the area will heal but the base will be a bit more open than if the sutures had held.)

You and your puppy should NEVER, EVER have had to go through anything like this--I can't believe they just pulled that tape that they used off without using one of the many adhesive removal products that are available. No wonder she cried.

I've never actually had a vet give tranquilizers to keep puppies quiet after cropping and I've had cropped Dobermans since 1959. Most now give a pain med for a few days and most give antibiotics for 5 to 7 days. But these are vets who DON'T post ears immediately after cropping. They glue the ears to foam blocks or to foam or plastic coffee cups and tape the ears to the cup so that none of the tape is over the newly cut ear of the pup.

The tape that should be used for working on ears should be a low tack (not very sticky) fabric, breathable tape (similar to the kind of tape athletes use for taping wrists and ankles where they may be taping the area daily) Johnson and Johnson makes a couple of these--J & J Zonas tape which is very commonly used in vet clinics. Or Johnson and Johnson Coach Sports Tape.

The J & J Sports tape can be found in regular drug stores and places like Walmart. Mostly you can find it in 1-1/2"--occasionally you can also find it in 1". Walgreens Drugs often carries it too.

It doesn't have to be baby oil or mineral oil--plain old cooking oil (Wesson oil) works fine and in a pinch at a dog show I once used butter to loosen adhesive on ears that needed reposting.

What with one thing and another I don't know if I'd want to let EarTrim ever get their hands on my puppy again.

The other tape that you can find at Vet clinics is by Curity--I don't recommend it as it is much stickier than the J & J products.

And as for charging ANYTHING for removing sutures! At the clinic where I work we routinely remove sutures from stuff we had nothing to do with--FREE! If your dog got stitches up in Paduka Falls, MI and you are one of our clients we'll take those sutures out for nothing. If we do surgery of any sort that involves sutures we always remove them for free.

Last edited by dobebug; 11-21-2017 at 04:25 PM.
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post #24 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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Alrighty! I will go look for that type of low-tachy tape and tape them up to a little foam cup on her head for now. If I see her suture is popped, I will go to Grand Park Animal Clinic. I will not be returning to EarTrim. I forgot to mention they cleaned her ear's scabs with regular paper towels and she just cried and cried. I was in shock. I felt like puking after that last visit. Can anyone give me further advice on securing the ears to a little cup without causing her much discomfort? Also, how do I remove the posts? They used a zip tie method. A drop of the adhesive/glue fell on Hera's paw and it has yet to come off. The inside of the ear was wiped with glue and then the post was inserted into the ear. After, he pulled her ear up hard (she cried) and laid the stretched ear on the bare plastic of the post...will this be hard to remove?
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post #25 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 04:42 PM
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Well... If I am looking at the pics correctly, that is an old guard (1940's) military crop. There is basically no leather left. Perhaps I am wrong. (I do have senior moments! LOL) If that actually is that is the case, the ears barely need posting. Your main concern should be to get the incisions to heal.

I am hoping someone will come on and point out my erroneous interpretation of those photos.

John
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