Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner

Greetings! Ear Cropping Nightmare :(

25K views 85 replies 12 participants last post by  Hera 
#1 ·
Hello Everyone!

I just want to greet everyone on this forum and start with a big thank you. The forum has already been very helpful with different subjects.

We have cropped Hera's ears here in Houston. However, her stitches have already popped once (from the bottom part on the left ear) and now the right ear is looking similar to how the left ear looked like when the stitch popped (yellow tint and white meat showing). They charged us 65$ to stitch up the left ear only and it seems like they added an extra stitch on bottom compared to the right ear (which now is looking very bad). We are extremely worried about her. She's our first Dobie girl and this is our first cropping. Everything seems to be going wrong with this procedure. Her ears have also been posted and taped already since day one of the surgery (the tech said that this avoids any ear shrinking and ensures that the ears stand better). I can only imagine that the stitches are having issues not only holding the ear's wound, but now the stitch has to hold the ear together under the pressure of the posts. She's back in her regular cone and has no access to her ears. She's on tranquilizers and sleeps all the time so "head shaking" is out of the question to her stitches popping. Please, if you can provide any feedback, I would greatly appreciate it.
 
See less See more
#3 ·
We don't have a breeder. Give me till the end of the day to figure out how to upload the image. The ears are all taped up and it's extremely hard to see. They use a very sticky Johnson&Johnson tape to wrap her ears. The place is called EarTrim and it had lots of positive reviews.
 
#5 ·
Unless your vet has given you specific directions for your puppy, having to do with the additional procedures they’ve done, extra stitches, etc. (not general “this is how we always do it” info).....

There should be NO tape over unhealed cut surfaces. The cut areas should be allowed to air-dry.

You can use baby oil to help dissolve the glue on the tape so you can slide it off easier. Then allow her ears to dangle or tape them tip to tip over the top of her head until the cuts have healed completely.

Do you have access to another vet in the area who is familiar with the after-care of cropped ears? It might be worth it to get a second opinion about how to take care of her ears post-surgery.

I wish I could refer you to someone local to talk to, but I’m not familiar with your area....maybe someone else here can. Anyone?
 
#7 ·
Her ears should not be posted with any tape covering the cut edges until the stitches are removed and they are fully healed. That's 95% of your problem here! They need to air dry and heal on their own. Unwrap them NOW and clean them with warm soapy water. Better yet take her to the vet and have them taken care of it and be sure they do not charge you anything to take care of this. This is completely their fault for giving you the wrong post crop instructions. This vet is incompetent and I wouldn't bring them any more business after this.
 
#8 ·
Melbrod, will the cone be enough to stop her from getting at her ears if I tape the tips over her head? When we went on Saturday, she was yelping a lot when they ripped the tape off her ears to check the sutures. And she had lots of sticky residue on her ears. They did not use any type of solvent to remove the tape safely. There is no other vet that I know in this area that deals with ear cropping like that clinic. They are supposed to be the best in the Houston area. I will be traveling home to the Rio Grande Valley for Thanksgiving and I know a vet that has done some ear cropping. I will consult with him when I go. If her stitch has popped, will it heal on its own?
 
#9 ·
Oh dear...I don't think they could have done many more things wrong. The tech is wrong--posting the ear immediately after cropping doesn't prevent shrinkage (ears don't shrink from being cropped) and it doesn't help them stand better in the long run.

Also it seems to me that I've heard something about Ear Trim and their crops and aftercare but I'll have to go an look and see if I can find it.

As Melbrod said--those ears need to come down immediately. Use lots of oil of any kind to get the tape to release--work it loose with a q-tip saturated in oil or you fingers and I'd let those ears just dangle--I wouldn't even try to tape them across the top of her had.

Ears cropped by a vet should be an all inclusive price and the vets I know who crop would NEVER charge extra to take care of a popped stitch. But then the vets I know who crop would never post a newly cropped ear and would not be using Elasticon tape on them.

And I have a question for you--did they say anything about removing the stitches? I'm not sure but the sutures in the ear almost look like dissolvable type material. The suture material is certainly much heavier than anything that I usually see used--I did work on a couple of puppies six or seven years ago where the vet did use dissolvable sutures--NOT common practice.

Do you know the name of the vet who did the actual crop? I found the name of a vet in the Houston area who is a DPCA member--beyond that I know nothing about her. Her name is Melanie Walker DVM, e-mail is mwalker@walkervethospital.com At least her vet clinic should know something about helping you get those ears down without creating mre problems for the puppy.

The tape that they have used to tape the ear appears to be Elastican tape--not only is it very sticky it's also stretchy and so far from the type of tape that should EVER be used on ears (any ears, not just newly cropped ears) that I can hardly believe anyone who had ever dealt with a cropped ear would use it.

Also in Katy, Texas (my knowledge of Texas geography is unfortunately sketchy) is a very good cropper of Dobermans. Kathy McLemore DVM who might also be of help here.

I wish you the best of luck with this-and I am so sorry your poor puppy has had to go through this. I'd also want to ask another vet about the tranquilizers she's getting--most vets try not go give lots of tranquilizers to puppies nor to give them for extended periods of time. Let us know what happens.
 
#12 ·
Removal of the Sticky tape

Ok, I will get in contact with Dr. Kathy McLemore later today. I am going to attempt to remove the tape and the posts when I get home. I am going to buy baby oil and use q-tips to wedge the oil in-between the tape and the ears. After removing the tape slowly, I will wash the ears with warm/soapy water. I am going to leave the e-collar on since I'm afraid of her doing more damage to her stitches and hurting herself. If I see that the stitch has popped on the right side, I will go tomorrow to EarTrim to demand a restitch on her. I'm sick of seeing my girl in pain. I never thought this was going to be our experience with ear cropping. If I do decide to tape her tips over her head, what tape brand should I use?

Once again, I appreciate all the help you all are providing me.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Ok, I will get in contact with Dr. Kathy McLemore later today. I am going to attempt to remove the tape and the posts when I get home. I am going to buy baby oil and use q-tips to wedge the oil in-between the tape and the ears. After removing the tape slowly, I will wash the ears with warm/soapy water. I am going to leave the e-collar on since I'm afraid of her doing more damage to her stitches and hurting herself. If I see that the stitch has popped on the right side, I will go tomorrow to EarTrim to demand a restitch on her. I'm sick of seeing my girl in pain. I never thought this was going to be our experience with ear cropping. If I do decide to tape her tips over her head, what tape brand should I use?

Once again, I appreciate all the help you all are providing me.
If nothing else Dr Crouch, (I think I blew the name of the vet in Katy and MeadowCat) put in a link for the actual clinic)--should be able to refer you to someone in Houston who can either resuture the base if you do have another popped suture. (However, if it's the top suture most croppers will just leave the ear base a little more open rather than try to repair the base suture. It's tough to get a good join down there without debriding both sides of the opening where the pulled suture is. If it's the top sutures, leaving it open isn't that big a deal--the area will heal but the base will be a bit more open than if the sutures had held.)

You and your puppy should NEVER, EVER have had to go through anything like this--I can't believe they just pulled that tape that they used off without using one of the many adhesive removal products that are available. No wonder she cried.

I've never actually had a vet give tranquilizers to keep puppies quiet after cropping and I've had cropped Dobermans since 1959. Most now give a pain med for a few days and most give antibiotics for 5 to 7 days. But these are vets who DON'T post ears immediately after cropping. They glue the ears to foam blocks or to foam or plastic coffee cups and tape the ears to the cup so that none of the tape is over the newly cut ear of the pup.

The tape that should be used for working on ears should be a low tack (not very sticky) fabric, breathable tape (similar to the kind of tape athletes use for taping wrists and ankles where they may be taping the area daily) Johnson and Johnson makes a couple of these--J & J Zonas tape which is very commonly used in vet clinics. Or Johnson and Johnson Coach Sports Tape.

The J & J Sports tape can be found in regular drug stores and places like Walmart. Mostly you can find it in 1-1/2"--occasionally you can also find it in 1". Walgreens Drugs often carries it too.

It doesn't have to be baby oil or mineral oil--plain old cooking oil (Wesson oil) works fine and in a pinch at a dog show I once used butter to loosen adhesive on ears that needed reposting.

What with one thing and another I don't know if I'd want to let EarTrim ever get their hands on my puppy again.

The other tape that you can find at Vet clinics is by Curity--I don't recommend it as it is much stickier than the J & J products.

And as for charging ANYTHING for removing sutures! At the clinic where I work we routinely remove sutures from stuff we had nothing to do with--FREE! If your dog got stitches up in Paduka Falls, MI and you are one of our clients we'll take those sutures out for nothing. If we do surgery of any sort that involves sutures we always remove them for free.
 
#15 ·
#16 ·
Most pups won’t need a tranquilizer. They get cropped and are bouncing around like normal the next day or so.

Did she get a shot or pills for pain?

I’d see how she does without the ace.
 
#18 ·
The tranquilizers were so she wouldn't shake her head since that's why the vet said she was popping her sutures. They weren't for pain. We got a painkiller/anti-inflammatory for her for the first 7 days. These are just to calm her down. I hate seeing her all drowsy, though. I rather just follow everyone's advice and proceed with the removal of the sticky tape from her newly sutured ear.
 
#19 ·
#22 ·
Grand Park is my personal vet clinic. Dr. Crouch isn't in the office much these days (she's a retired Dobe breeder and has cropped for many, many years), but her staff is well versed in dealing with ears. Try to grab the first available appointment they have. They're on S Mason in Katy. 281-392-3127.

As others have said, keep the tape off. Do not return to ear trim . com either. Whoever recommended them is not someone I'd go to for advice either.
 
#24 ·
Alrighty! I will go look for that type of low-tachy tape and tape them up to a little foam cup on her head for now. If I see her suture is popped, I will go to Grand Park Animal Clinic. I will not be returning to EarTrim. I forgot to mention they cleaned her ear's scabs with regular paper towels and she just cried and cried. I was in shock. I felt like puking after that last visit. Can anyone give me further advice on securing the ears to a little cup without causing her much discomfort? Also, how do I remove the posts? They used a zip tie method. A drop of the adhesive/glue fell on Hera's paw and it has yet to come off. The inside of the ear was wiped with glue and then the post was inserted into the ear. After, he pulled her ear up hard (she cried) and laid the stretched ear on the bare plastic of the post...will this be hard to remove?
 
#25 ·
Well... If I am looking at the pics correctly, that is an old guard (1940's) military crop. There is basically no leather left. Perhaps I am wrong. (I do have senior moments! LOL) If that actually is that is the case, the ears barely need posting. Your main concern should be to get the incisions to heal.

I am hoping someone will come on and point out my erroneous interpretation of those photos.

John
Portland OR
 
#26 ·
Yes, we went with a military/working dog crop. Since it was our first crop, we were concerned with care and wanted to post her for the least amount of time as possible. However, she's still been through so much already. We may as well have gone with a medium crop at this point.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Honestly, at this point....I’d go to another vet to check for infections or see if she needs any other care for her ears, and to take the stitches out at the appropriate time...and then leave them alone. Once they’ve healed completely, you should be able to tell whether or not the ears need to be posted and for how long.

No need to fiddle with a cup or any other kind of “support” for her ears at this point.

But I’m not sure I understand where or how the posts you mention are in her ear...I don’t see any in your picture. Do you know exactly what kind of glue they used? Spray adhesive, eyelash adhesive or maybe a medical adhesive?
 
#28 ·
Don't even try to put her ears up on a cup--if you know what you are doing and have done it before it's possible to put ears up on a cup or a foam block when the puppy is awake but I wouldn't even want to try with her at this point--her ears must be sore by now.

I wouldn't even try to tape them over her head--I just let them hang. The first pups I had cropped in the late 50's and early 60's either were just left to hand or were simply taped over the top of the head--the best thing that came along was the technique of using a cup or a foam block and securing the ears to the cup with adhesive (surgical adhesive used for adhering devices like colostomy bags to skin and then further securing it with tape which held everything in place but was never placed over the newly cut ear edges.

Posting the ears after everything is healed and the sutures have been removed.

Melbrod: I think most of the pictures are those taken on Saturday night when they sent her home and told her to come back on Sunday to have the ears reposted (said they couldn't do it Saturday because they were too swollen from putting the suture in the base of the one ear. There are a couple of pictures where you can see that she does have a post in the ear (and you can see the tape that I think they used which I believe is Elastacom--never intended for use on ears--very sticky and stretchy. And there is one picture of her sitting on an exam table with ears posted.

Heaven only knows what they used for glue--I'm just hoping that they didn't use superglue. But spray adhesive, liquid adhesive (like Osteobond) and even eye lash glue can be freed up with oils of any sort.

And John--that is a very short crop. I'm going to guess it will eventually need to be posted but I'd find someone other than Eartrim to work on her.

I went looking on the internet under Eartrim, Houston and can only tell you after looking through the "Yelp" entry (there were many other entries for Eartrim, Houston) I chose not to look any further. Reviews were all over the place and for those that were happy with the crops and aftercare there were more that weren't. The really happy people seemed to mostly be Cane Corso owners--if you've ever seen their crops--they are very short.

I can tell you from my experience with a very short crop on my very first dog that often those military crops lay over the top of the head by they time they heal and it's often hard to deal with the pockets that frequently form. I would bet that they will need to be posted but mostly now they need to heal.

Pet your puppy for me--give her a cookie...
 
#36 ·
Melbrod, that is exactly correct. Thank you DobeBug for the clarification. Here is the time line, again.

1) Thursday she was taken to a checkup and she was fine.

2) Saturday she was taken to be re-posted BUT instead they said her stitch was popped--thus they re-sutured her that Saturday and sent her home without being posted.

3) Sunday (upon their orders), we returned to have her ears posted--BIG MISTAKE.

4) Today (Tuesday) her ears began to smell and look like they did on Saturday when her stitch popped--however, upon further inspection, all her stitches look intact.

5) Tomorrow (Wednesday) she will go to a different vet to have her ears evaluated for infection and for a follow up date for the suture removal by the new vet.
 
#29 ·
Tape and Posts Has Been Removed

Hello everyone. I have removed the sticky tape and the posts. I dabbed oil onto the elastic/sticky tape and slowly removed them. She stayed on my lap without a single yelp. Right now, she being super active and it's like I have my girl back. How should I stop her from going at her ears without an e-collar? There seems to be yellow liquid coming from her ears (aside from the fowl smell). Can I apply a triple action antibiotic ointment for now? She currently has an appointment with the Dr. from Katy everyone is praising for tomorrow. I also cleaned out her ears with the soapy/warm water cloth. The glue they used (which is according to them is an adhesive glue used in human colons) was impossible to completely remove. She will stay like this from now until her sutures are to be removed by someone other than EarTrim. What is everyone's opinion on the posts used by EarTrim in the photos below?

Infection? by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Ear Crop by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Irritation by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Posts by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Cushion of post by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr
 
#31 ·
Are those posts made from a curved metal piece? Kind of hard to tell from the pictures. If they are I think they are actually "finger splints" They come as long pieces and can be cut to any length--I know a Boxer breeder who tried using them for awhile but decided that she preferred another method. She said that if the post cushion wasn't made perfectly it caused problems. I looked at them as a possibility at one point but decided that that I liked other methods better.

We have a supply of the finger splints at the clinic where I work that we use for splinting kittens (broken legs) or small breed puppies (broken legs).

I finally decided not to use them because they were more rigid than I wanted for an active puppy who could run into things and possibly damage the ear with that sort of post

Don't worry about removing all of the residual glue from her ear--just leave it--it'll come off eventually. The glue they used to put the post in was an adhesive (probably a latex) which is used to install colostomy bags after colon surgery on humans. It's common and is used for some types of posting--it was probably OsteoBond or Torbot Bonding Adhesive.
I think that if you have an appointment with the vet tomorrow I wouldn't put any antibiotic ointment on her ears tonight--they may want to give her oral antibiotics instead and as sore as her ears probably are by now it may cause her to do more head shaking or try to rub her ears. If you have to I guess putting the e-collar back on would be better than having her try to scratch the ears.

She may by this time have enough goop inside the ear at the bottom of the ear canal that is contributing to the smell. If you can very carefully try cleaning the inside of the ear with a q-tip that may help some.

Please, keep us posted after your appointment.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Are those posts made from a curved metal piece? Kind of hard to tell from the pictures.
Heavy duty plastic zip-ties.

Every single example of the zip-tie method I've seen have had them covered with the Zonas or Coach's tape, not just glued directly to the ear bare.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top