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post #51 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-28-2017, 07:05 AM
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So peaceful! I have been praying for this pup.....so glad to see that things are back on track.

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post #52 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-28-2017, 08:51 AM
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Sleepy baby. Hope things go smoother now.

Is she a bit underweight? Or just all bunched up funny in your picture??
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post #53 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-28-2017, 09:09 AM
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She looks much happier. I might suggest learning to post the ears yourself or have a local doberman person help. Sometimes vet techs aren't the best at posting ears even at the practices which regularly do ear cropping. Plus, it's good to know for when a post gets wet or falls out and you need to get it back up and can't get to the vet in time. There are a few tutorials here on DT on how to post the ears so check them out! Look in the ear cropping forum at the very top in the "sticky" threads.
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post #54 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-28-2017, 10:03 AM
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Thanks for posting--she looks somewhat worn out in the picture but is probably much more comfortable.
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post #55 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-28-2017, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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Eating Issue

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Sleepy baby. Hope things go smoother now.

Is she a bit underweight? Or just all bunched up funny in your picture??
She's been eating much less, actually. We give her the food and she just messes with the bowl and just ends up tapping it over with her paw. She rather eat off the floor than eat from her bowl. It's been going since last Thursday. Not sure if it's because she is used to pawing at her KONG to get food out and she is bored of a bowl, but we ended up going to Petco and buying a KONG tiltz (I think that's what it's called), which is a bowl she has to paw and move around to get her food out of the crevices. Today she had her second meal in it, but she still didn't finish her serving. I hand fed her a few times because I needed her to eat in order to give her the antibiotic, but even then, she didn't want to eat out of my hand consistently. She just kept pawing at the food on my hand so it could fall on the floor and THEN she would eat it. Even after dropping the entire bowl, she leaves the food thrown there. Is it because I got the wrong food? Puppy Iams "Large breed." She was doing fine all last week during her transition from her old food to the Iams. This started happening out of nowhere. I can't pinpoint any "trauma" that may have caused her to fear her bowl. Also, she has her meals in her crate, to avoid distractions.

I will be learning how to post on my own. I found some great posts on DT that I would love to try. However, her first post will be done at the vet. I just want to see the process first.
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post #56 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-28-2017, 11:53 AM
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Antibiotics can upset a pup’s stomach and really decrease her appetite. From what I’ve seen, it seems like the upset starts a couple of days after starting an antibiotic. Does that timing make any sense in her case?

A painkiller, an anti-inflammatory or a sedating medication can also decrease appetite. Changing a food suddenly can add fuel to the fire. Pup’s tummies can be sensitive to all kinds of things.

In the short term, it’s mostly important to watch for diarrhea and vomiting, and to make sure the puppy is staying hydrated. If you start seeing those, you might want to talk to your vet.

Longer term, a decreased appetite AND weight loss (or even staying at the same weight in a puppy at an age where she should still be growing rapidly) should be looked at.

Last edited by melbrod; 11-28-2017 at 12:05 PM.
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post #57 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-29-2017, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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No, the timeline doesn't make sense. I wondered if it was the antibiotic too, but her lack of appetite started one day before the antibiotic treatment. However, she was on tranquilizers until Monday/Tuesday. Today we are taking her to get her stitches removed. We are super excited to finally be taking a step forward rather than another one back like we've been doing. She also has her normal vet check up on Friday for vaccinations. This is a picture of her eating pieces of food that she knocked out of her KONG Bowl KONG tiltz bowl.

Feeding Time by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr
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post #58 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-30-2017, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Update

Hey everyone, Hera's stitches have come off and the vet requested we take her back Saturday for posting. She's still eating very little, though.
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post #59 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-30-2017, 05:45 PM
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Are you feeding her only kibble and warm water? You might try cutting back the amount of kibble you are offering a little and adding a spoonful of yogurt or cottage cheese and the water and giving it to her on something large and sort of flat (pie tin, cookie sheet, dinner plate etc) instead of making her work for it.

Put anything you are adding in and stir it well and don't add more to that meal--adding stuff while a puppy is eating because you want them to eat more is a great way to start them down the path of being a picky eater--Dobe puppies learn that game quickly and will always beat you at it.

How much was she eating before she went on this self imposed diet? And how often is she eating? She doesn't look thin in the picture of her eating
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post #60 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-01-2017, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Are you feeding her only kibble and warm water? You might try cutting back the amount of kibble you are offering a little and adding a spoonful of yogurt or cottage cheese and the water and giving it to her on something large and sort of flat (pie tin, cookie sheet, dinner plate etc) instead of making her work for it.

Put anything you are adding in and stir it well and don't add more to that meal--adding stuff while a puppy is eating because you want them to eat more is a great way to start them down the path of being a picky eater--Dobe puppies learn that game quickly and will always beat you at it.

How much was she eating before she went on this self imposed diet? And how often is she eating? She doesn't look thin in the picture of her eating
I cut back on adding water to her food. She was eating at 7:30am and at 8pm. We can't feed her twice since no one is there for lunch. Now she's eating at like 9am and 11pm. There's is constantly kibble on the floor from her Tiltz bowl but she just ignores it to play.

Her first food was some low-grade kibble stuff. We are now feeding her Iams (medium-grade). It was brought to my attention by a Vet Tech that she might need less food since her old food was all "fluff" and this new food--according to the label--has more protein (Iams ProActive Health Smart Puppy Large Breed) and might be filling her up long-term--rather than expanding quickly and then shrinking in her belly.

The vet said we shouldn't be feeding her Large Breed food since Dobies are medium-breeds BUT after her seeing her father, I'm pretty sure she is going to be huge. Apparently, that large breed food is supposed to have nutrients that help her grow slower and efficiently rather than quickly. She loved her old food, but I think because it was all carbs. I would love to eat mashed potato everyday, but I know I need my meats more. If I add yogurt or cottage cheese, will she get diarrhea? Why is it good to add cottage cheese and yogurt? Does it serve some benefit or is it just an incentive? What brand of cottage cheese (studid question, I know)?

In concern to the feeding method, we do like her KONG Tiltz. She does eat at least 1/2 to 3/4 of the recommended amount. However, since she likes to flip her food bowls, we are thinking about buying a co-op bowl. That way she can't flip it as easily and if she does, her water will flip, too--and she knows flipping her water is bad.
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post #61 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-01-2017, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
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I cut back on adding water to her food. She was eating at 7:30am and at 8pm. We can't feed her twice since no one is there for lunch. Now she's eating at like 9am and 11pm. There's is constantly kibble on the floor from her Tiltz bowl but she just ignores it to play.

Her first food was some low-grade kibble stuff. We are now feeding her Iams (medium-grade). It was brought to my attention by a Vet Tech that she might need less food since her old food was all "fluff" and this new food--according to the label--has more protein (Iams ProActive Health Smart Puppy Large Breed) and might be filling her up long-term--rather than expanding quickly and then shrinking in her belly.

The vet said we shouldn't be feeding her Large Breed food since Dobies are medium-breeds BUT after her seeing her father, I'm pretty sure she is going to be huge. Apparently, that large breed food is supposed to have nutrients that help her grow slower and efficiently rather than quickly. She loved her old food, but I think because it was all carbs. I would love to eat mashed potato everyday, but I know I need my meats more. If I add yogurt or cottage cheese, will she get diarrhea? Why is it good to add cottage cheese and yogurt? Does it serve some benefit or is it just an incentive? What brand of cottage cheese (studid question, I know)?

In concern to the feeding method, we do like her KONG Tiltz. She does eat at least 1/2 to 3/4 of the recommended amount. However, since she likes to flip her food bowls, we are thinking about buying a co-op bowl. That way she can't flip it as easily and if she does, her water will flip, too--and she knows flipping her water is bad.
She's young enough that she should be eating three meals a day...I would be feeding either an "all life stages" food or a large breed puppy food. Yes, Dobermans are technically a medium breed, but for food purposes they should be feed like a large breed - those puppy foods are formulated for slow growth. You don't want puppies to grow too quickly. You really want three structured meals a day - you don't want to let them "graze" because it makes potty training much harder, and you also don't know how much or when they've eaten. It also can teach them to kind of "pick" at their food, not eat relatively quickly. That will make your life much harder down the road. Even eating out of a food toy, my dogs eat their meals in a relatively short time span.

If no one is home at lunch, how is she getting out often enough for potty breaks for potty training?
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post #62 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-01-2017, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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That is true. We don't know her poop schedule anymore. Back then, we knew when she did and didn't have to go. Now that we leave her meals out sometimes for "grazing" she poops at odd ball hours. We'll take her out to pee and get all surprised when she poops, too. We live at the University. We have quick breaks from class (mainly Tuesdays and Thursdays) that we haul butt back to the campus' apartments, take her to use the restroom and then go back class. Mondays and Wednesdays are better because her mom stays with her until 11am and then I'll go around 2pm or 3pm to take her out. It's the best we can do, right now. She does not eat out of the toy quickly. She hits it, makes the pieces fly everywhere and if they fall a good distance from each other, she will eat them But if the food that she hits out of her toy bowl lands on the floor too close to one another, she WILL NOT eat it. She rather hit the bowl again to make the kibble pieces fly further distances and she will ignore the group of kibble on the floor that is "too close" to one another. This girl is crazy!
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post #63 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-01-2017, 10:27 AM
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You definitely need to get her back to a structured meal schedule. How long is she being left alone? If she's 11 weeks old, she can probably only "hold it" for about 4-5 hours at the most. Is she crated while you are gone? How is the potty training working? Maybe you can have a friend take her out for a break while you are gone?
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post #64 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-01-2017, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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12 weeks--She is crated while we are gone. She has never soiled her crate since we started putting her in there at 8 weeks. Some nights, she goes in on her own to knock out. She spends the whole night in there. She gets lots of treats when she goes in too. I try to designate her favorite toy for her crate but she sometimes takes it out during her play time. We don't know anyone that could take her out for us. And now that she needs someone to monitor her while she eats for about 20-25min, I doubt we could find someone to help us for that long for her lunch time.
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post #65 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-01-2017, 02:10 PM
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I'd stop the feeding out of the Kong bowl--she is now playing with her food and that's not a good habit for a dog to get into. It deprives you of the advantage of scheduled feeding.

If she's being fed at specific times and specific amounts you know when she's eating and if she's eating enough. My dogs, even the puppies will clean up a meal in 2 to 5 minutes and if it takes longer than that--I start keeping a close watch to make sure they don't have something going wrong--if slow eating or not eating continues for more than a couple of meals the go to the vet to be checked out.

About feeding things with the kibble. I always feed "stuff" to puppies mixed into their food, from the beginning. I want them to be excited about every meal and to eat it all and do it quickly. This is normal canid behavior--it's how they are actually designed to eat--clean up the food quickly (so no one else gets it) eat a big meal and go sleep it off. Get up later, go pee and poop and play--it's one of the big reasons that scheduled feedings help with potty training.

Back to the food business. Yogurt or cottage cheese should not cause diarrhea. Both are partially altered milk products and are easy to digest. Beside--you are only giving a small amount. It definitely adds flavor to the food but beyond that it is also an excellent source of calcium and phosphorus in a balanced form which can safely be given to puppies. I start puppies out with a spoonful--teaspoon for the first several days and at four months my puppies are generally getting a tablespoon with breakfast. Both yogurt and cottage cheese are also good for skin and coat. And I always add water--it simply makes the food more attractive.

I buy both yogurt and cottage cheese in the full fat kind rather than no fat or low fat. Dogs utilize fat differently (to some degree) than people do. I know that some people are horrified because the dogs who share yogurt and cottage cheese with me sometimes get plain yogurt and sometimes they get vanilla, strawberry or peach yogurt (all of which have sugar added)--I suppose if I were a purist I wouldn't give them anything except plain but since we are talking about a fairly small quantity of sugar I don't worry about it and the dogs have never complained.

At four months I have had several puppies who were already leaving part of their lunch and that's when I switch to two meals a day. So she's probably old enough that she will be OK on just two meals.

I also add something to dinner--I feed eggs in addition to kibble--they are a great source of protein in an easily digested form. I hard boil them in batches--when I was feeding more than one dog I would hard boil a dozen at a time (they had to share them with me because I like egg salad sandwiches. For puppies I start them out on 1/2 an egg at dinner and once I'm sure that they are doing well with that amount I switch them to an egg a day. Egg yokes also contain biotin--a very good additive for skin and coat health.

If I run into a bargain on hamburger or ground turkey I will also buy some and cook it up into Sloppy Joe consistency by just adding a little water and simmering it. I will give a spoonful of that with their dinner as well. I don't give canned food generally--having noticed that several of my puppies would get immediate diarrhea with even small quantities of canned food. My adult dogs could deal with canned but the puppies not so much.

Bottom line is that you probably will have to teach her to eat instead of playing with the food. I thought you were originally feeding her in her crate--and I start doing that again--and even though she's a puppy and needs the food I would not leave the food down for her longer than 15 minutes--I'd take it away then and give her nothing until her next scheduled meal. You could probably facilitate this return to scheduled feeding by giving her smaller portions for a couple of days until she is cleaning all of the food given promptly. Putting some attractive additive (which also provide additional nutrition) will help with that too.

While this is going on I'd cut down on the treats too--give her a few pieces of her own kibble rather than "treat" when rewarding her.

Her weight looked pretty good in the picture and I suspect that like most puppies--if she's not getting a bunch of treats and she doesn't get to just "snack" on her food you'll be able to figure out pretty quickly how much she actually needs to eat--the bag quantities are just averages and for some puppies are way too much while for other they aren't nearly enough.

Good luck
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post #66 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-04-2017, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Alrighty, we'll take away for Kong Bowl. We already purchased the non-tip bowl so she doesn't throw her food over. As of Friday, she only has 15-20min to eat. I don't want her to eat too fast since she tends to regurgitate her food when she does. Then she eats it back up--not cute at all. The vet saw her on Friday for her second set of vaccines and dewormers. Vet said she was a good weight, and she also recommended the 15min-only meal time. I think adding cottage cheese would be a nice touch, so I'll buy some later this week to add to her breakfast. I've been trying to use her kibble as training snacks as well!

Her ears have been posted since Friday and they seem to be holding up well. The the Grand Park vet tried to post without using the Torbot glue, but the second she got put down to the ground, the post flew out of her ear (thank goodness it happened there). They used the paper towel method--roll up some paper towels and wrap the roll in medical tape. I think I might be able to do the backer-rod method on my own from YouTube videos and sites like Prima Doberman's website. But I'll most likely use that method as an emergency posting for days that I can't drive over an hour to Katy to have her posts be put up. Also, should her posts be on all the time or can I do it in intervals--as in 5 days with posts and 2 days without them (so they can breath)?
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post #67 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-04-2017, 01:27 PM
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Posts definitely up ALL of the time....take them down for a 15 minutes or so to let them dry out, and then put them back up in posts again.

You may not be able to stretch the time between changing the posts for 5 days...I generally change posts every 3 or 4 days. You should definitely change them right away if her ears/posts get wet, if they smell bad or seem irritated, if the posts fall out of her ears at the bottom, or if she is shaking her head a lot more than usual.

As time goes on, I think you should probably learn to post them yourself. That way you can catch those little emergencies right away instead of having to wait to see the vet (and driving long distances to get there) and you can also do fine tuning to her post job as needed rather than waiting until the next appt. It’s not that hard to do, once you get over the all thumbs fumble fingers part of it. And if you give her a little ear massage when they are down, and a bit of extra loving, it will turn into a good bonding experience between the two of you.

Just have all of your supplies prepared, precut and within easy reach before you start and you’ll get faster at it--soon, you’ll be able to post in your sleep.
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post #68 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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So, I took off Hera's old posts since it's been drizzling a ton in Houston, and it turns out the bottom of the posts were slightly wet and had some gunk build up. I went with the backer-rod method and put in new posts last night. I also used paper tape to keep her I try to place an umbrella over her when we go out, but apparently they're still getting a bit wet. Should I just change her posts everyday? Every 2 days? They have never gotten completely wet!
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post #69 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hera View Post
So, I took off Hera's old posts since it's been drizzling a ton in Houston, and it turns out the bottom of the posts were slightly wet and had some gunk build up. I went with the backer-rod method and put in new posts last night. I also used paper tape to keep her I try to place an umbrella over her when we go out, but apparently they're still getting a bit wet. Should I just change her posts everyday? Every 2 days? They have never gotten completely wet!
Any time a post gets wet you need to change it. If she goes out in the rain, you will want to cover her head to keep posts dry. I like to use something like a Target or Wal-mart bag - I simply put the bag over their head (and posts) and tie the handles under the chin They get used to it!


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post #70 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 11:43 AM
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a little bit of blackish gunk on the bottom of the post is normal - so don't freak out at that. If they get wet, definitely change them. Once her base is standing, there are ways to post that do not go into the ear base.

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post #71 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Since she has a short, military crop, should I post through teething? Or can I stop after a month or 2?
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post #72 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Hera View Post
Since she has a short, military crop, should I post through teething? Or can I stop after a month or 2?
You post until they are done I don't mean to be flippant, but yes, hers will probably stand sooner, but it really depends on each dog's ears. You basically wait until it seems as if they are standing well. Then, I generally post another couple of weeks. Then, you give them a little test and leave them down. I like to take a photo, so I can see what they look like. Give it a few days, see if you think there's any "drooping." Take another photo and compare - sometimes you see something in a photo that you don't see in person. That's just me. Shorter ears do tend to stand quicker, but you might still get drooping during teething. You'll just have to take it as you see it with her ears.


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post #73 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hera View Post
Since she has a short, military crop, should I post through teething? Or can I stop after a month or 2?
This is just my opinion based on the dogs in the early '70sand '80s that I posted with shorter crops. None were quite as shorts your cute girls, but they were definitely done and standing well before teething was over. Around five months, if I am remembering correctly. My regular vet was one of the very good ear croppers in the NW (He passed in '82). He would have me take the ears down and inspect them. Actually, he would inspect them. If he thought the looked about right, he would have me leave them down and repost immediately if the ears showed a sign of weakness.

This is nothing that I would normally suggest today with the very long crops and the reduced bell. But your girl's crop is way different. Almost like a Cane Corso crop.

From the pictures that you have provided, I would suspect very little posting will be necessary.

What I would do is to come back here with and update wth some pics and get some further advice.

Again, just so there is no confusion. My comment is directed solely at you and your pretty girl's very specific crop, based on my previous experience with shorter crops.

Keep updating!

John
Portland OR

Edit to say: I just saw MC's comment. Everything she said^^^^^

Last edited by 4x4bike ped; 12-07-2017 at 12:30 PM.
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post #74 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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Crop Pictures

I just realized I haven't uploaded any photos of her in forever! Let me attach a few. These were taken yesterday (12/06/2017). She was posted on Saturday (12/02/2017). We are going back to post her again on Saturday, in Katy. I can't go this week due to work so I was forced to post her myself. The first picture where she's snoozing is of the vet's posts. The other is mine.

Snoozin' by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Hera's Posts Round 1 (2) by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Hera's Posts Round 1 (3) by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Hera's Posts Round 1 (4) by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr
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post #75 of 86 (permalink) Old 12-07-2017, 01:53 PM
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I love her little sweater Looks like she's doing well and the ears are coming along. So much better!


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E L1I NW2 RATI SOG WAC
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What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
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