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post #26 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4bike ped View Post
Well... If I am looking at the pics correctly, that is an old guard (1940's) military crop. There is basically no leather left. Perhaps I am wrong. (I do have senior moments! LOL) If that actually is that is the case, the ears barely need posting. Your main concern should be to get the incisions to heal.

I am hoping someone will come on and point out my erroneous interpretation of those photos.

John
Portland OR
Yes, we went with a military/working dog crop. Since it was our first crop, we were concerned with care and wanted to post her for the least amount of time as possible. However, she's still been through so much already. We may as well have gone with a medium crop at this point.
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post #27 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 05:20 PM
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Honestly, at this point....I’d go to another vet to check for infections or see if she needs any other care for her ears, and to take the stitches out at the appropriate time...and then leave them alone. Once they’ve healed completely, you should be able to tell whether or not the ears need to be posted and for how long.

No need to fiddle with a cup or any other kind of “support” for her ears at this point.

But I’m not sure I understand where or how the posts you mention are in her ear...I don’t see any in your picture. Do you know exactly what kind of glue they used? Spray adhesive, eyelash adhesive or maybe a medical adhesive?
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post #28 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 06:58 PM
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Don't even try to put her ears up on a cup--if you know what you are doing and have done it before it's possible to put ears up on a cup or a foam block when the puppy is awake but I wouldn't even want to try with her at this point--her ears must be sore by now.

I wouldn't even try to tape them over her head--I just let them hang. The first pups I had cropped in the late 50's and early 60's either were just left to hand or were simply taped over the top of the head--the best thing that came along was the technique of using a cup or a foam block and securing the ears to the cup with adhesive (surgical adhesive used for adhering devices like colostomy bags to skin and then further securing it with tape which held everything in place but was never placed over the newly cut ear edges.

Posting the ears after everything is healed and the sutures have been removed.

Melbrod: I think most of the pictures are those taken on Saturday night when they sent her home and told her to come back on Sunday to have the ears reposted (said they couldn't do it Saturday because they were too swollen from putting the suture in the base of the one ear. There are a couple of pictures where you can see that she does have a post in the ear (and you can see the tape that I think they used which I believe is Elastacom--never intended for use on ears--very sticky and stretchy. And there is one picture of her sitting on an exam table with ears posted.

Heaven only knows what they used for glue--I'm just hoping that they didn't use superglue. But spray adhesive, liquid adhesive (like Osteobond) and even eye lash glue can be freed up with oils of any sort.

And John--that is a very short crop. I'm going to guess it will eventually need to be posted but I'd find someone other than Eartrim to work on her.

I went looking on the internet under Eartrim, Houston and can only tell you after looking through the "Yelp" entry (there were many other entries for Eartrim, Houston) I chose not to look any further. Reviews were all over the place and for those that were happy with the crops and aftercare there were more that weren't. The really happy people seemed to mostly be Cane Corso owners--if you've ever seen their crops--they are very short.

I can tell you from my experience with a very short crop on my very first dog that often those military crops lay over the top of the head by they time they heal and it's often hard to deal with the pockets that frequently form. I would bet that they will need to be posted but mostly now they need to heal.

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post #29 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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Tape and Posts Has Been Removed

Hello everyone. I have removed the sticky tape and the posts. I dabbed oil onto the elastic/sticky tape and slowly removed them. She stayed on my lap without a single yelp. Right now, she being super active and it's like I have my girl back. How should I stop her from going at her ears without an e-collar? There seems to be yellow liquid coming from her ears (aside from the fowl smell). Can I apply a triple action antibiotic ointment for now? She currently has an appointment with the Dr. from Katy everyone is praising for tomorrow. I also cleaned out her ears with the soapy/warm water cloth. The glue they used (which is according to them is an adhesive glue used in human colons) was impossible to completely remove. She will stay like this from now until her sutures are to be removed by someone other than EarTrim. What is everyone's opinion on the posts used by EarTrim in the photos below?

Infection? by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Ear Crop by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Irritation by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Posts by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Cushion of post by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr
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post #30 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 07:40 PM
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For now, I'd just let her ears be, and see what the vet says tomorrow.


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post #31 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 07:44 PM
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Are those posts made from a curved metal piece? Kind of hard to tell from the pictures. If they are I think they are actually "finger splints" They come as long pieces and can be cut to any length--I know a Boxer breeder who tried using them for awhile but decided that she preferred another method. She said that if the post cushion wasn't made perfectly it caused problems. I looked at them as a possibility at one point but decided that that I liked other methods better.

We have a supply of the finger splints at the clinic where I work that we use for splinting kittens (broken legs) or small breed puppies (broken legs).

I finally decided not to use them because they were more rigid than I wanted for an active puppy who could run into things and possibly damage the ear with that sort of post

Don't worry about removing all of the residual glue from her ear--just leave it--it'll come off eventually. The glue they used to put the post in was an adhesive (probably a latex) which is used to install colostomy bags after colon surgery on humans. It's common and is used for some types of posting--it was probably OsteoBond or Torbot Bonding Adhesive.
I think that if you have an appointment with the vet tomorrow I wouldn't put any antibiotic ointment on her ears tonight--they may want to give her oral antibiotics instead and as sore as her ears probably are by now it may cause her to do more head shaking or try to rub her ears. If you have to I guess putting the e-collar back on would be better than having her try to scratch the ears.

She may by this time have enough goop inside the ear at the bottom of the ear canal that is contributing to the smell. If you can very carefully try cleaning the inside of the ear with a q-tip that may help some.

Please, keep us posted after your appointment.
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post #32 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 08:00 PM
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Are those posts made from a curved metal piece? Kind of hard to tell from the pictures.
Heavy duty plastic zip-ties.

Every single example of the zip-tie method I've seen have had them covered with the Zonas or Coach's tape, not just glued directly to the ear bare.


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post #33 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
Heavy duty plastic zip-ties.

Every single example of the zip-tie method I've seen have had them covered with the Zonas or Coach's tape, not just glued directly to the ear bare.
I have also seen the zip-ties used only when covered by a type of tape such as Zonas--on both youtube and here. How important is the base of the post? This base seems to be made of a the same Elasticon tape that is used to prematurely wrap her ears. Shouldn't the base be made of a good cushion like a soft cotton pad or BackerRod?
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post #34 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
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Hera's Ears are FREE

Hera sends her gratitude to everyone that helped her owners on the forum!! Hopefully, her vet visit tomorrow goes well! I will put her e-collar for tonight only and see what the new vet says tomorrow. Thanks again, everyone!

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post #35 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 09:32 PM
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Oh.... What a cute little girl!

Keep us updated...

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post #36 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
Don't even try to put her ears up on a cup--if you know what you are doing and have done it before it's possible to put ears up on a cup or a foam block when the puppy is awake but I wouldn't even want to try with her at this point--her ears must be sore by now.

I wouldn't even try to tape them over her head--I just let them hang. The first pups I had cropped in the late 50's and early 60's either were just left to hand or were simply taped over the top of the head--the best thing that came along was the technique of using a cup or a foam block and securing the ears to the cup with adhesive (surgical adhesive used for adhering devices like colostomy bags to skin and then further securing it with tape which held everything in place but was never placed over the newly cut ear edges.

Posting the ears after everything is healed and the sutures have been removed.

Melbrod: I think most of the pictures are those taken on Saturday night when they sent her home and told her to come back on Sunday to have the ears reposted (said they couldn't do it Saturday because they were too swollen from putting the suture in the base of the one ear. There are a couple of pictures where you can see that she does have a post in the ear (and you can see the tape that I think they used which I believe is Elastacom--never intended for use on ears--very sticky and stretchy. And there is one picture of her sitting on an exam table with ears posted.

Heaven only knows what they used for glue--I'm just hoping that they didn't use superglue. But spray adhesive, liquid adhesive (like Osteobond) and even eye lash glue can be freed up with oils of any sort.

And John--that is a very short crop. I'm going to guess it will eventually need to be posted but I'd find someone other than Eartrim to work on her.

I went looking on the internet under Eartrim, Houston and can only tell you after looking through the "Yelp" entry (there were many other entries for Eartrim, Houston) I chose not to look any further. Reviews were all over the place and for those that were happy with the crops and aftercare there were more that weren't. The really happy people seemed to mostly be Cane Corso owners--if you've ever seen their crops--they are very short.

I can tell you from my experience with a very short crop on my very first dog that often those military crops lay over the top of the head by they time they heal and it's often hard to deal with the pockets that frequently form. I would bet that they will need to be posted but mostly now they need to heal.

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Melbrod, that is exactly correct. Thank you DobeBug for the clarification. Here is the time line, again.

1) Thursday she was taken to a checkup and she was fine.

2) Saturday she was taken to be re-posted BUT instead they said her stitch was popped--thus they re-sutured her that Saturday and sent her home without being posted.

3) Sunday (upon their orders), we returned to have her ears posted--BIG MISTAKE.

4) Today (Tuesday) her ears began to smell and look like they did on Saturday when her stitch popped--however, upon further inspection, all her stitches look intact.

5) Tomorrow (Wednesday) she will go to a different vet to have her ears evaluated for infection and for a follow up date for the suture removal by the new vet.
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post #37 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-21-2017, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Oh.... What a cute little girl!

Keep us updated...

John
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Will do!
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post #38 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 07:32 AM
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Oh what a cute pup......I recognize how concerned you must be for your little one. Feel certain we all have tear drops in our eyes as we read about your struggles. Keep up the good work! Glad to know you will not let those other individuals touch your baby again .....Have a great holiday weekend and keep in touch these folks will help you.

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post #39 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
Heavy duty plastic zip-ties.

Every single example of the zip-tie method I've seen have had them covered with the Zonas or Coach's tape, not just glued directly to the ear bare.
Now that I know that they were zip-ties I do recognize them. I sure didn't in the pictures--I'm another one who's never seen zip-ties used except when they were covered with Zonas or Coach's tape. And I'd never seen the bottom padded with more of the Elasticon tape,

Hera: If you do use the zip-tie method of posting I'd pad the bottom with something other than Elasticon. I've only posted a couple of puppies with zip-ties (those that came with zip-ties and I just re-posted them the way they had been posted before). Both of those puppies had a cotton pad, taped to the bottom of the zip-ties (there were two zip-ties taped together, covered with tape and glued in place) so the cotton acted as the pad.

I use Elasticon tape when I'm putting Holters on--after I place the electrodes I use a single piece of Elasticon to cover the line of electrodes--and when I remove it I use a whole lot of a commercial adhesive remover to take it off. At the vet clinic it's used primarily to fix things like heavily padded casts on legs of big dogs--for that it's one wrap of 2" Elasticon at the top and one at the bottom with only about 1" of the tape actually touching the dogs skin. For both of these purposes it's used because it's highly adhesive and stays where it's put.

From the look of the last picture of the puppy sitting on the couch you may not even have to post the ears--she's very cute.

Good luck today.
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post #40 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 10:00 AM
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I do use the zip ties. I think it’s important to have someone show you how to do this correctly and it also only really works for certain crops and ear leathers. Most importantly, they’ve missed a few key steps that would make this method comfortable.

I’m glad you have an appt with Grand Park. I don’t think you need to post much, but if Grand Park thinks you should I would highly suggest you use their posting method. This pup has had a lot of ear trauma and their method is very gentle and easy. The yellow liquid is infection. That needs to clear up before any posting occurs. They will need to be cleaned daily.

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post #41 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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I do use the zip ties. I think it’s important to have someone show you how to do this correctly and it also only really works for certain crops and ear leathers. Most importantly, they’ve missed a few key steps that would make this method comfortable.

I’m glad you have an appt with Grand Park. I don’t think you need to post much, but if Grand Park thinks you should I would highly suggest you use their posting method. This pup has had a lot of ear trauma and their method is very gentle and easy. The yellow liquid is infection. That needs to clear up before any posting occurs. They will need to be cleaned daily.
I will have Hera's mom ask for the best method of cleaning today at her appointment. That infection will be addressed immediately. Her ears are standing now, but they still droop every so often. We will begin posting after the vets approval (and of course after her stitch removal). I will make sure that whichever method we use for posting will provide her poor ears with as much comfort as possible and not be anywhere near the quality of posts used by the asinine staff of EarTrim.
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post #42 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 10:54 AM
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Her ears already look more comfortable with the posts out and the tape off. Get them cleaned up and healed and I think it will be smooth sailing from here on out.
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post #43 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 11:06 AM
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Hi Hera..
In the past when one of our boys developed an ear infection during posting, we had great success cleaning them with Ket Flush (ketoconazole-EDTA-Tris). It is a cleaning flush developed specifically for dogs, cats and horses. It really works well. It is available only through veterinarians.

Best to you and your little girl.

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post #44 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 4x4bike ped View Post
Hi Hera..
In the past when one of our boys developed an ear infection during posting, we had great success cleaning them with Ket Flush (ketoconazole-EDTA-Tris). It is a cleaning flush developed specifically for dogs, cats and horses. It really works well. It is available only through veterinarians.

Best to you and your little girl.

John
Portland OR
Awesome! We'll ask about that solution at the vet today
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post #45 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Her ears already look more comfortable with the posts out and the tape off. Get them cleaned up and healed and I think it will be smooth sailing from here on out.
I sure hope that is true! I was very reluctant to crop her ears because I was afraid of putting her through unnecessary pain and that's exactly what ended up happening. My 2 dobies back at home are "Au Natural," so cropping was a huge controversy (especially with my mother who loves the long ears). Now, I'm not sure I ever want to crop a dobie pup again. This has been a terrible experience. Here are some pictures of my boys from back home. The black/tan one is Zeus and the blue/tan one is Hercules

The Boys 1 by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr
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post #46 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 12:11 PM
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Please update us when your girl gets in to the vet's office! Unfortunately you're not alone with your terrible cropping experience and I don't blame you for feeling like you never want to do this again. These kinds of stories are why pretty much all great breeders have the puppies cropped by an expert vet before the new owner comes and picks up their pup. The pups are sent to their new homes with the ears already healed and with instructions on how to post them. I'm just so glad you found us and reached out for help. Maybe some good will come out of it in the end- like you'll meet someone here on DT or through your local doberman club you may have otherwise not.
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post #47 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by greenkouki View Post
Please update us when your girl gets in to the vet's office! Unfortunately you're not alone with your terrible cropping experience and I don't blame you for feeling like you never want to do this again. These kinds of stories are why pretty much all great breeders have the puppies cropped by an expert vet before the new owner comes and picks up their pup. The pups are sent to their new homes with the ears already healed and with instructions on how to post them. I'm just so glad you found us and reached out for help. Maybe some good will come out of it in the end- like you'll meet someone here on DT or through your local doberman club you may have otherwise not.

Yes, thank you all again! She's being taken right now to Dr. Crouch's clinic--which is a member of the DPCH and DPCA. Hopefully, her staff helps us get Hera back on her feet. Right now, I'm trying to get EarTrim to send me her files and they asked me to call back later because they were too busy. Hopefully, I can get that info before the appointment.
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post #48 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-24-2017, 07:00 PM
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Any news on Hera?
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post #49 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-27-2017, 02:20 PM
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Any news on Hera?
Well, I'm posting this only to bump the thread up again--I really hate it when a thread becomes very active because a puppy and her folks are having problems and then it goes silent as this thread about Hera and her ear crop did.

So Hera's people--please, please let us know how things are going with you and your puppy.

(Hoping that everything is OK)
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post #50 of 86 (permalink) Old 11-28-2017, 01:27 AM Thread Starter
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Hera UPDATE

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobebug View Post
Well, I'm posting this only to bump the thread up again--I really hate it when a thread becomes very active because a puppy and her folks are having problems and then it goes silent as this thread about Hera and her ear crop did.

So Hera's people--please, please let us know how things are going with you and your puppy.

(Hoping that everything is OK)

Very sorry, dobebug! I went home for thanksgiving and didn't spend much time around the computer. Hera's visit went well. She did have an infection. She was prescribed 3 different medications: Tritop, to apply on the sutures, the antibiotic cephalexin, and an inner ear antibiotic called, Maxi Otic (pictures of all 3 meds are below). She's to take the meds for 7-10 days--she will take cephalexin until this Saturday. On Wednesday, we will be going back to Grand Park for removal of the stitches. After that, we will return in 7-10 days for her first posts. Her ears are looking much better now. Before applying the Tritop and MaxiOtic, we were instructed to clean the ears with q-tips and then clean the edges with hydrogen peroxide. Everything is going good so far. EarTrim never answered my calls after answering the first time and then telling me to call back in 30 minutes. I called 2x and both times I was forwarded to voicemail. I have yet to receive Hera's file. Here's a picture of Hera during most of our visit home lol

Meds for Hera by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr

Sleeping by Rolando Alvarado, on Flickr
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