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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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New Dobe parents in DFW

My husband and I live in the DFW area and picked up our bundle of joy this past Monday, 8/17/2015. "General Patton" was born 7/9/2015 and he is 6 weeks old today (8/20/2015).

This is my first Doberman but my husband has had two female Dobermans in the past (different life/different wife!). He said training has changed somewhat compared to when he raised his two previous Dobes.

I/we have A LOT to learn about bringing up puppy! We've read quite a bit on the Internet, including this awesome forum, read the "Dogs for Dummies" book and we're waiting for two additional books to arrive from Amazon: The Puppy Primer by Patricia B. McConnell and The Doberman Pinscher (Book & DVD) by Janice Biniok.



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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 12:42 PM
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Hi OP,

In the state of Texas it is ILLEGAL to separate from the mother and sell any dog or cat under the age of 8 weeks old.

You should contact your local animal control and let them know this backyard breeder is selling puppies at 5 weeks of age. That is incredibly irresponsible and cruel.

"stay hungry, stay foolish."

Last edited by bigfootlives; 08-20-2015 at 12:44 PM.
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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 12:56 PM
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Anyone selling puppies at 5 weeks is extremely unethical.
What health testing have they done on their breeding dogs? It sounds like you're really interested in learning, so I'm sure you know about the many deadly and expensive genetic diseases that run rampant in Doberman lines. Buying from a reputable breeder is not only to avoid supporting backyard breeders, but to get a dog that is mentally and physically sound.
I hope you got lucky with this pup. The odds really aren't in his favor. An untested byb dog being sold too early, not able to learn crucial behavioral lessons form mom and siblings... I hope it turns out ok for you.
He looks like he needs a good nail trimming too ;-)

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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 01:08 PM
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Hi and Welcome to DT from Denver! Unfortunately what the ladies are saying is true but you have your baby now so let's help you keep it as healthy as possible. Many of us have made similar mistakes and learned from them (some of us the hard way unfortunately). I agree I would def. report the breeder and Let's not support that breeder again.

Did you take the puppy to the vet to be evaluated? That's important, they need to check it out, make sure it doesn't have any worms or other parasites... and make sure it's healthy in general. I would try to take a stool sample with you if you can.

Best of luck to you and your new family member!
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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 02:24 PM
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Hi and Welcome
Thanks for posting the pics. What a cutie! Enjoy General Patton.
Best of luck!!
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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 02:37 PM
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Welcome to DT. General is a cutie.

So far as I know, it isn't illegal to sell pups under the age of 8 weeks in Texas, but it certainly isn't ethical. Pups separated from their mom and littermates too early frequently have problems learning how to properly interact with other dogs, and may have issues with poor bite inhibition. These are a couple of good articles on teaching bite inhibition. https://www.siriuspup.com/behavior-p...s/puppy-biting and Teaching Bite Inhibition - Whole Dog Journal Article

If the breeder was skimping by selling 5 week old pups, I'd be concerned with what else they were skimping on, like breed appropriate health screenings on their breeding dogs.

Do you know if he's even had any shots and dewormings yet? If not, he needs to have a vet visit as soon as possible. Even if the breeder gave him his first set of shots (doubtful, since they are usually started at 6 weeks), a vet visit would be a good idea.

Are you planning on having him cropped? if so, the recommended cropper in the DFW area is Dr. Schaffer at Home - Animal Medical and Surgical Hospital


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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 02:48 PM
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I googled it before I posted and the first link brought me to a table of every state and it shows that the minimum age of sale for cats and dogs is 8 weeks. 25 states (sadly) only have this requirement.

"stay hungry, stay foolish."
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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bigfootlives View Post
I googled it before I posted and the first link brought me to a table of every state and it shows that the minimum age of sale for cats and dogs is 8 weeks. 25 states (sadly) only have this requirement.
Hmm.. Just Googled it myself, since I didn't recall it being illegal ... in Texas, it only applies to licensed breeders, not individuals. https://www.animallaw.info/topic/tab...e-sale-puppies

Anyway, water under the bridge now. The OP has their pup, and we need to help them make sure that he is as healthy as possible, and stays that way.


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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
Hmm.. Just Googled it myself, since I didn't recall it being illegal ... in Texas, it only applies to licensed breeders, not individuals. https://www.animallaw.info/topic/tab...e-sale-puppies

Anyway, water under the bridge now. The OP has their pup, and we need to help them make sure that he is as healthy as possible, and stays that way.
That's the link I used. That's ridiculous it only applies to 'lisenced' breeders

Then again OPs breeder could be 'lisenced' or be claiming to be.

But agreed. OP needs as much support as possible as they obviously won't get it from their breeder.

"stay hungry, stay foolish."
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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Gigi817 View Post
My husband and I live in the DFW area and picked up our bundle of joy this past Monday, 8/17/2015. "General Patton" was born 7/9/2015 and he is 6 weeks old today (8/20/2015).

This is my first Doberman but my husband has had two female Dobermans in the past (different life/different wife!). He said training has changed somewhat compared to when he raised his two previous Dobes.

I/we have A LOT to learn about bringing up puppy! We've read quite a bit on the Internet, including this awesome forum, read the "Dogs for Dummies" book and we're waiting for two additional books to arrive from Amazon: The Puppy Primer by Patricia B. McConnell and The Doberman Pinscher (Book & DVD) by Janice Biniok.



[IMG][/IMG]
Welcome to the forum. As others have said, it's unfortunate that your pup's breeder was not ethical enough to keep him with his mother and siblings, but it's too late to change that. You do have some work cut out for you, but it sounds like you are eager to learn and do right by your puppy. The Patricia McConnell book is a wonderful starting place...I would absolutely read anything she's written - she's fantastic!

I also recommend this completely fantastic puppy raising book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/189...pf_rd_i=507846Puppy Start Right. It's very easy to read and understand and it has so much useful information. It'll be a wonderful resource for you.

Another great book is this one: The Power of Positive Dog Training

I also recommend getting your pup in for a vet visit. Be sure you carry him in your arms and don't set him on the ground where other dogs may be carrying in germs...he's still very young and vulnerable and you don't want to expose him to anything that his immune system is too immature to handle at this point. You'll also need to use caution as you start socializing him...don't take him to places that lots of dogs frequent - so no Petsmart or any place like that. Take him places where he can meet people but don't expose him to dogs that are not vaccinated or places lots of dogs hang out, because he's just too young for that right now.

You'll need to socialize your pup safely, and that means making everything a fun and positive experience! Puppy Socialization: Stop Fear Before it Starts | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS

Red Rover

Puppy care shorts: Socialization | Ruffly Speaking

And, finally, because your pup left his mother and littermates too young, you'll have a bit of extra work in the "bite" department. You guys are up to the task, though! Here's a great article on how to teach bite inhibition to your little pup: Teaching Bite Inhibition | Dog Star Daily

This forum is a great resource, and we have lots of people who can help when stuff comes up!


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post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 09:15 PM
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Ditto what others have said, and welcome to the forum. There is a lot of fantastic advice here. I'll second Dr. Schaffer, she's in Plano and did my black male's ears. She does a wonderful job and has an amazing reputation.

Get thee to a vet quickly for parvovirus and distemper shots! Those are the most important at this age.
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post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-22-2015, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone for your input, especially MeadowCat and Rosemary for the links and reading suggestions. I have ordered Puppy Start Right and The Power of Positive Dog Training from Amazon (as well as a 5-pack of clickers) and look forward to reading these books when they arrive. I'll spend some time reading the information provided in the other links this weekend.

I took General to the vet yesterday (8/21/15) for his first puppy check-up. I was very careful with him and did not put him on the floor. He weighs 3 pounds 12 ounces. He had a thorough check-up, nail clipping, first round of shots and de-wormed (he had two different types of worms ). I will take him back to the vet for a follow-up de-worming in 10 days.

The vet's office manager sent an email to Doberman owners in their data system for a referral for ear cropping and she emailed me today with the name of the overwhelming recommendation, Dr. Debbie Shaffer of Frisco, Texas (same recommendation as Rosemary). I'll call Dr. Shaffer's office Monday and schedule his appointment when he's about 10-11 weeks old.
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post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-22-2015, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigi817 View Post
The vet's office manager sent an email to Doberman owners in their data system for a referral for ear cropping and she emailed me today with the name of the overwhelming recommendation, Dr. Debbie Shaffer of Frisco, Texas (same recommendation as Rosemary). I'll call Dr. Shaffer's office Monday and schedule his appointment when he's about 10-11 weeks old.
She might want to do them sooner, as the general consensus is that 7 to 10 weeks is the best age for cropping.

I'm going to guess that he had hookworms and round worms? Two of the easiest ones to pick up and (luckily) the easiest ones to treat.


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post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 11:44 AM
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You'll need to call Schaeffer now. She can be pretty booked up.

Shame you went with a BYB when there are plenty of really good breeders in your area.

Think the law is by county. In Harris county it is illegal to sell pups less than 8 weeks old and also illegal to sell them on the side of the road (which was actually a large problem here). OP is likely in Tarrant County and I don't know what their laws are.

The Dallas Dobe club is a good one. Perhaps you can join and meet lots of Dobe people and learn more about the breed.
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post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 11:51 AM
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It takes two to tango...

Crappy, unethical, money grubbing byb selling pups at 5 weeks and the other half of the dance team is the irresponsible buyer.

Instead of buying the puppy you should have called Animal Control.
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post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 01:49 PM
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How sad...Anyone that can find this site on the internet should be able to find out about ethical vs unethical breeders and all that, unless you live in a third world country.
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post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 01:58 PM
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Guys...a reminder, again...it is NOT helpful to scold someone after they already have their puppy. What's done is done. And, many, many, MANY of us have gotten our first pup from terrible breeders. It is not always the case that it is as easy as we think to understand how to separate good breeders from bad the first time around...it wasn't for me. And I am an educated person who worked in rescue (on the cat side of things) for many years. I just didn't know how to find those resources, nor how to evaluate them. Let's not beat up this person who is doing a great job of finding good resources to teach their pup, get quality vet care, etc. They are open and willing to learn how to do better next time.

If I had been shamed for my bad choice rather than welcome and gently educated about how to do better next time around I'm not sure I would have learned as much as I did and ended up such an advocate for quality breeders. Just saying.


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post #18 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 02:23 PM
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How is your baby doing?

What are you currently feeding?

Make sure you're feeding AT LEAST 3x a day but he's so young you may want to see about 4-5x a day for a few weeks. Remember they have tiny tiny stomachs and can't eat a lot and absorb it all.
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post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretchen_Red View Post
How is your baby doing?

What are you currently feeding?

Make sure you're feeding AT LEAST 3x a day but he's so young you may want to see about 4-5x a day for a few weeks. Remember they have tiny tiny stomachs and can't eat a lot and absorb it all.
Good advice. At 6 weeks, he should be eating at least 3 times a day. Five times a day would be even better. This website is a good place to start comparing foods Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor Most people here would say only go with a four or five star food, but I'm comfortable with most foods that are three stars or above. I also prefer grain-free, but am not a stickler for it, as long as there are no corn products.


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post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Guys...a reminder, again...it is NOT helpful to scold someone after they already have their puppy. What's done is done. And, many, many, MANY of us have gotten our first pup from terrible breeders. It is not always the case that it is as easy as we think to understand how to separate good breeders from bad the first time around...it wasn't for me. And I am an educated person who worked in rescue (on the cat side of things) for many years. I just didn't know how to find those resources, nor how to evaluate them. Let's not beat up this person who is doing a great job of finding good resources to teach their pup, get quality vet care, etc. They are open and willing to learn how to do better next time.

If I had been shamed for my bad choice rather than welcome and gently educated about how to do better next time around I'm not sure I would have learned as much as I did and ended up such an advocate for quality breeders. Just saying.
So true... My first dobe was from a BYB. It was 40+ years ago. I was young and naive. Fortunately with the guidance of my vet (who later became a good friend), a well respected doberman judge, this pup became one of the best dogs I have ever owned.
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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Guys...a reminder, again...it is NOT helpful to scold someone after they already have their puppy. What's done is done. And, many, many, MANY of us have gotten our first pup from terrible breeders. It is not always the case that it is as easy as we think to understand how to separate good breeders from bad the first time around...it wasn't for me. And I am an educated person who worked in rescue (on the cat side of things) for many years. I just didn't know how to find those resources, nor how to evaluate them. Let's not beat up this person who is doing a great job of finding good resources to teach their pup, get quality vet care, etc. They are open and willing to learn how to do better next time.

If I had been shamed for my bad choice rather than welcome and gently educated about how to do better next time around I'm not sure I would have learned as much as I did and ended up such an advocate for quality breeders. Just saying.
I've read through so many of the new threads here for a long time that are a repeat of this one. Names are different, areas of the country different but the one commonality in every one of them is that the OP pops in here after buying the puppy.

I could understand if this was happening before access to the internet and the wealth of excellent info available to anyone who would just take the time to do a little research. I could understand that.

But that is not the case today for any of the buyers who purchase from a byb with nary a thought as to the outcome of their acts.......the repercussions of their irresponsibility. These kinds of buyers are looking for a cheap and convenient way to buy a dog. As I've said before these kinds of buyers put more time into researching a new microwave than a Doberman puppy. And for that there is no excuse.

Add to that the fact that many times their purchase is an illegal one not just an unethical one. Puppies way too young to leave their mother and siblings, puppies being sold roadside or in a Walmart parking lot and unhealthy puppies are red flags to anyone who takes just a minute to really look at what they're doing.

This kind of buyer wouldn't purchase their microwave in this fashion yet have no problem buying a puppy like this.

JMO but I feel this needs to be said, it needs to be repeated so that anyone doing some research sees what NOT to do.

We can't do anything about the byb and the damage they do to our breed except report them when their actions are known. We red flag craigslist byb. But in the end it is the buyers who put money into the byb's pockets who share the responsibility for this ongoing and huge problem.

As to my post near the beginning of this thread, I don't see it as shaming. I see it as being needed to be said. I kept it short and to the point.

Be part of the solution not part of the problem.


MC I understand and appreciate your position on this. I hope you see and understand mine.

Mary & Bacchus
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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 06:51 PM
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VZ I understand where you're coming from but sometimes your passion for this topic is a wee harsh.

I was one of "these kind of buyers". Well actually my husband was and I didn't know any better and just went along with it because I never wanted a dog at all.

It is horrifying when you realize what you have done and what you have contributed to. Believe me it can rock your soul.

It then goes one of two ways...you have an enlightenment to your ignorance and vow to never do it again or people leave this forum to go to a feel good byb supporting forum.

I've been here for years learning and contributing as I can about what I know. Or how I feel about the big mistake I made. But I owned it and took responsibility. You've got to give the OP the chance to let us know what category she will fall into.

To the OP he is a cutie and I wish you a happy, healthy, long life together.

And I really hope you learn about the horrors of bybs so that people like you and I will never make this same mistake twice.



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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 07:02 PM
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CL....

I appreciate your honesty about your purchase. The part of the OP's post that I found unsettling was this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigi817 View Post
We've read quite a bit on the Internet, including this awesome forum, read the "Dogs for Dummies" book and we're waiting for two additional books to arrive from Amazon: The Puppy Primer by Patricia B. McConnell and The Doberman Pinscher (Book & DVD) by Janice Biniok.
According to this part of the OP's post this forum was read prior to the roadside purchase of a 5 week old puppy from a byb unless I'm not understanding the post.

I'm glad you "saw the light" and became an advocate for our breed.
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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-16-2015, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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I appreciate the responses received. Some of the comments were rather harsh and I was tempted to never log in to this site again but ... there are MANY people (especially MeadowCat, Rosemary and Gretchen_Red) who are very helpful and there is a wealth of information to be found within the forum so I came back to give an update on how General Patton (we call him "General") is doing. He will be 10-weeks-old tomorrow, September 17th.

He is currently eating Wellness Complete Large Breed Puppy. He is fed 3 to 4 times per day, depending on my work-from-home schedule. I always attempt to feed him 4 times a day with a set schedule. There are days when I have to be away from home and then I follow a 3 times per day feeding schedule. Wellness Complete Large Breed Puppy kibble received a 4 star rating from Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor. This was the only highly rated large breed puppy food I could find at my local pet stores at the time I purchased this bag. I have now found a small local pet store that carries Orijen Large Breed Puppy food and I will be switching General to this food with the next bag, slowly transitioning him to this food over 10-14 days.

General has been to his veterinarian twice and on September 1st he weighed 6 1/2 pounds. He weighed 3 pounds 12 ounces at his first exam on August 21st. We weighed him a few days ago and he's now more than 10 pounds. He has an appointment later this morning with Dr. Deborah Shaffer in Frisco, Texas for a consult and possible ear cropping, depending if Dr. Shaffer believes he's ready for the surgery.

I'm attaching three photos of General I took yesterday, September 15, 2015. I wanted to get some good shots of him with his floppy ears.

More later ...






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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-16-2015, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigi817 View Post
I appreciate the responses received. Some of the comments were rather harsh and I was tempted to never log in to this site again but ... there are MANY people (especially MeadowCat, Rosemary and Gretchen_Red) who are very helpful and there is a wealth of information to be found within the forum so I came back to give an update on how General Patton (we call him "General") is doing. He will be 10-weeks-old tomorrow, September 17th.

He is currently eating Wellness Complete Large Breed Puppy. He is fed 3 to 4 times per day, depending on my work-from-home schedule. I always attempt to feed him 4 times a day with a set schedule. There are days when I have to be away from home and then I follow a 3 times per day feeding schedule. Wellness Complete Large Breed Puppy kibble received a 4 star rating from Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor. This was the only highly rated large breed puppy food I could find at my local pet stores at the time I purchased this bag. I have now found a small local pet store that carries Orijen Large Breed Puppy food and I will be switching General to this food with the next bag, slowly transitioning him to this food over 10-14 days.

General has been to his veterinarian twice and on September 1st he weighed 6 1/2 pounds. He weighed 3 pounds 12 ounces at his first exam on August 21st. We weighed him a few days ago and he's now more than 10 pounds. He has an appointment later this morning with Dr. Deborah Shaffer in Frisco, Texas for a consult and possible ear cropping, depending if Dr. Shaffer believes he's ready for the surgery.

I'm attaching three photos of General I took yesterday, September 15, 2015. I wanted to get some good shots of him with his floppy ears.

More later ...






He's looking great, and I'm glad you stopped back in! I hope you continue visiting the forum. Dr. Shaeffer is definitely the one to visit about ears...if you are going to crop, you want it done right, and she's the one to do it! It sounds like your little guy is doing well.

If he's doing fine on Wellness, honestly, I see no reason to switch foods. I think too much fooling around with foods can kind of mess with their systems. However, if you decide to go ahead and switch, take a look at the calorie contents...I suspect Orijen (large breed puppy is what you want) is higher in calories than Wellness. You will probably need to decrease the amount you are feeding in each meal or you will end up with a pup who has diarrhea. We get lots of folks who switch to Orijen or another really calorie dense food who have the same problem...overfeeding can be a big cause of that. But sometimes that food doesn't work for some pups...you'll just have to see how he does. I've raised two puppies on Orijen large breed puppy food that did really well on it, so it just depends on the dog.

I hope you'll continue to update us and share more pictures! There's also a great ear posting tutorial in the puppy forum.


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