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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-16-2014, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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James from Atlanta, Ga

Hi everyone my name is James, I just recently got out of the Army. I spent the last 10 of 14 years in the Special forces, 5th Grp out of Ft. Campbell. Just moved to Newnan, Ga for my new civilian life job.

I have worked with a couple GSD's while in the Army and was the proud co-owner of a fantastic female Rottweiler but my ex wanted to keep her and I eventually caved.

This will be my first Doberman and I am sincerely looking forward to working with him/her. There is a lot of show line dog breeders in the Atlanta area.... I am not sure that's what I need. I am after a great house pet and trail companion for when I am out jogging the trails.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-16-2014, 05:11 PM
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what kind of work do you want to do with your future dog?
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-16-2014, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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Obedience, but I mostly want a great temperament and energy so I can take the dog on the trails with me. I don't have anything against show lines just find the prices way exaggerated because your paying for a show line pedigree which doesn't do anything for me because I have zero desire to do conformation
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-16-2014, 07:49 PM
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well, here's the thing.

for a dog from a reputable breeder, expect to pay that much. there are pet quality dogs in every litter! but the price reflects the amount of time, work, and money that went into that litter.

1 - both parents have been tested thoroughly for all inherited disorders. both parents are regularly checked for certain things, like heart problems. this is NOT inexpensive.
2 - both parents have been titled in at least one venue. this means a lot of time and money invested, frequently in more than just the conformation ring. my puppy's sire is titled at both ends, and had his owner not passed away recently, i'm certain Maverick would have continued to earn titles.
3 - you may not want a show dog, but don't you want a dog that fits the breed standard? this allows you to avoid things like potential health issues from oversized dogs, and temperament issues from dogs that could not be handled in the ring.

if you're not interested in paying the price for a well-bred puppy, your best bet is to look into rescue. PLEASE consider this option, so you can avoid giving money to a puppy mill or someone we call a backyard breeder. neither of these options are doing the breed any favors.

this is a really good link explaining our position: https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding...-want-pet.html
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-16-2014, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
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I was under the impression this was an introduction area.... I didn't introduce myself to get feedback or criticism from breeders. I mean that's great you guys are on here and all but that's not why I joined the board. And I am sure you guys are very proud of your programs and I am sure you produce great dogs. But I've seen first hand dog's that were donated do things in theatre that a "well breed puppy from a reputable breeder" would not.

And before you get upset.... I owe a GSD that was donated and wasn't even AKC registered a great deal of thanks for eating two out of the 6 rounds I got hit with in Iraq in 2004. That's a true story with pictures of us both in the medevac for any naysayers. So while I am convinced there are breeders with some very pretty and very friendly Dobermans.... I also think there's a ton of dog's that came from a pound that are still great.... great dog's. And just an FYI because I found your set up questions amusingly cute, I would never buy from a BYB that was raising dogs in a dirt clay hole next to a dog house nor would I buy them from a mill, that's just an assumption you made. You would have done better asking me what the breeders I have contacted offered me and what they wanted me to pay for these dogs. Then perhaps you might have agreed and said yeah your right...xxxxx is way to much to pay for a dog you don't ever plan to show.

Last edited by jbaer; 06-16-2014 at 10:32 PM.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-16-2014, 10:43 PM
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Welcome to the forum. You might try Petfinders to find a good rescue.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-16-2014, 10:47 PM
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Just an FYI, 99% of the posters on this forum are not breeders, including the poster you are responding to.

This is a forum of mostly pet owners that strongly believe in ethical breeding practices, responsible pet ownership, and supporting reputable rescues. If that sounds like a good fit for you, then welcome!
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2014, 03:17 AM
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Hello and welcome. In my short time here I've seen many beautiful dobermans available for adoption in the rescue area. Many rescue groups place their ads on pet finder as well and you can also always contact some rescue groups in your area if that's a route you would like to take. Good luck on your search

Every dog should be given a chance. Please consider adoption.

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2014, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbaer View Post
I was under the impression this was an introduction area.... I didn't introduce myself to get feedback or criticism from breeders. I mean that's great you guys are on here and all but that's not why I joined the board. And I am sure you guys are very proud of your programs and I am sure you produce great dogs. But I've seen first hand dog's that were donated do things in theatre that a "well breed puppy from a reputable breeder" would not.

And before you get upset.... I owe a GSD that was donated and wasn't even AKC registered a great deal of thanks for eating two out of the 6 rounds I got hit with in Iraq in 2004. That's a true story with pictures of us both in the medevac for any naysayers. So while I am convinced there are breeders with some very pretty and very friendly Dobermans.... I also think there's a ton of dog's that came from a pound that are still great.... great dog's. And just an FYI because I found your set up questions amusingly cute, I would never buy from a BYB that was raising dogs in a dirt clay hole next to a dog house nor would I buy them from a mill, that's just an assumption you made. You would have done better asking me what the breeders I have contacted offered me and what they wanted me to pay for these dogs. Then perhaps you might have agreed and said yeah your right...xxxxx is way to much to pay for a dog you don't ever plan to show.
1 - not a breeder. nowhere near the status of a breeder. i have a puppy bitch i've just started showing, and i co-own her with my breeder. she's my second dog ever and it would be highly irresponsible of me to breed her. i don't know nearly enough about pedigrees to choose a dog responsibly. so my breeder will do all of that once she's ready, has been titled in at least one venue, and has had all her prebreeding health tests done.

2 - this is why i suggested rescue. if you cannot afford a well-bred dog, or do not want to buy a well-bred dog, rescue is key. otherwise you're asking for a potential cocktail of health and temperament problems that seem endemic to poorly-bred dogs in this breed.

3 - you're thinking in GSD language. someone in my club has a Schutzhund bitch that just stopped doing Agility at 14 years of age, and she has show titles. the divide between show and working is nowhere near what it is in the GSD world. if you intend to work and title your dog in Obedience, look for people who title dogs in Obedience. often these dogs do well in the show ring. usually the events are held at the same dog shows.

BYBs can be very, very deceiving. you may assume they only breed in "dirt clay holes" but there are many who seem to have great breeding programs, and their websites appear to reflect that, but deep down they really aren't doing the breed any favors.

my questions were not nasty, nor were they meant to make you seem like a fool. we've had a rash of new people looking to buy the cheapest dog they can get and defending their choice when we know they'll probably have health problems to contend with in a few years. we're trying to spare you that. my apologies for caring entirely too much about your potential dog.

please read the forum manifesto in the newbies area before proceeding. i think it might be helpful for you.

i'm done helping you.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2014, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbaer View Post
I was under the impression this was an introduction area.... I didn't introduce myself to get feedback or criticism from breeders. I mean that's great you guys are on here and all but that's not why I joined the board. And I am sure you guys are very proud of your programs and I am sure you produce great dogs. But I've seen first hand dog's that were donated do things in theatre that a "well breed puppy from a reputable breeder" would not.

And before you get upset.... I owe a GSD that was donated and wasn't even AKC registered a great deal of thanks for eating two out of the 6 rounds I got hit with in Iraq in 2004. That's a true story with pictures of us both in the medevac for any naysayers. So while I am convinced there are breeders with some very pretty and very friendly Dobermans.... I also think there's a ton of dog's that came from a pound that are still great.... great dog's. And just an FYI because I found your set up questions amusingly cute, I would never buy from a BYB that was raising dogs in a dirt clay hole next to a dog house nor would I buy them from a mill, that's just an assumption you made. You would have done better asking me what the breeders I have contacted offered me and what they wanted me to pay for these dogs. Then perhaps you might have agreed and said yeah your right...xxxxx is way to much to pay for a dog you don't ever plan to show.

I see absolutely no criticism what-so-ever in any of the posts here, except for yours.

It is not about show dogs. It IS about sound, healthy dogs be they pets, performance or show dogs. A show dog is simply a pet that goes to dog shows on the weekend.

Dobermans are riddled with a rather large variety of debilitating and even fatal health issues. Things like Dilated Cardio Myopathy (will kill approx 50% +/- of our Dobes), Wobblers, vWD, Liver and/or Kidney disease, Hypothyroidism and more and more often I am seeing young dogs, purchased from Joe Blow back yard breeder with Hip Dysplasia, when most *reputable* breeders have not seen HD in decades.

Testing the parents for these afflictions annually is the best chance you've got of getting a puppy that will live a long, healthy life. This isn't a guarantee, dogs are living beings and unfortunately no matter how carefully planned the breeding or the number of health tests, sometimes poop just happens. But, you will stack the odds in your favor by purchasing a well bred puppy from a reputable/ethical breeder.

If you don't want to pay the price for a well-bred puppy, that is fine. We are okay with that and encourage you to rescue. You will be getting the same dog you would get out of the newspaper or craigslist, from a byb or commercial breeder, at an even lower price. Of course, health, temperament, etc are a crap shoot with a rescue, but you are doing a great service by rescuing a dog and if you do run into health problems the dollars you will spend will be a bit easier to swallow as your purchase price (adoption fee) was nominal.

You were not being criticized, nor did you get feedback. What you got was good information that you should be armed with before you actually beat the street looking for a puppy.

Spend some time on this forum looking through the many posts about the countless Dobes that have had to be re-homed or euthanized due to temperament issues. While you are at it read through the health section and read about the health issues that countless owners have been faced with.

I welcome you to the forum and wish you the best of luck with your puppy search. I can only hope that you will learn from the information provided and thus be aware of the challenges you may face, regardless of where your eventual puppy comes from.


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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2014, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
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Let me clarify, I think it would really help you guys understand what I refused to pay...

The first breeder I contacted offered me a 6 mth old but the contract said I had to show her in conformation and if wanted I had to let them breed her and they wanted 5k for this dog because of xx show lines in the pedigree.

Dog 2 from second breeder,3k 2 years old and is already pregnant I'd have to take her back and let them whelp puppies then she would be out rightly mine.

Breeders 3/4 no puppies but 4500 if they did. All because of their show line pedigree.

OK I'm not poor people, I'm not cheap either, but do any of you spend that much on a dog you have zero interest in showing?

All I said is Atlanta had a community of show line breeders not just the pedigree these people actually do the shows.

I think 1500 is a fair price for a good dog. I'm not after some 200 dollar scraggly dog. Ive got more standards than I'm getting credit for.

Thanks for the welcomes...I do think you guys should relax a little. not everyone who join's is here for a bargain puppy to down grade the gene pool. And I joined this board almost 2 years ago. I was just in Afghanistan and didn't have anything useful to say so all I've done is read.

Thanks again
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2014, 09:03 AM
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Ill admit 5,000 seems a bit much even if you were looking for a show puppy but generally you are looking at between 2500 and 3500 for a Doberman. The average puppy of any breed from a reputable breeder in todays world is around 1500 to 2000. With a Doberman, you need to realize you are paying for the ear crop and tail dock as well. Most other breeds do not have this factored into their price because most breeds do not need an ear crop/tail dock but this is standard with Dobermans. And the location of the puppy also dictates how much an ear crop/tail dock cost.
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Originally Posted by jbaer View Post
Let me clarify, I think it would really help you guys understand what I refused to pay...

The first breeder I contacted offered me a 6 mth old but the contract said I had to show her in conformation and if wanted I had to let them breed her and they wanted 5k for this dog because of xx show lines in the pedigree.

Dog 2 from second breeder,3k 2 years old and is already pregnant I'd have to take her back and let them whelp puppies then she would be out rightly mine.

Breeders 3/4 no puppies but 4500 if they did. All because of their show line pedigree.

OK I'm not poor people, I'm not cheap either, but do any of you spend that much on a dog you have zero interest in showing?

All I said is Atlanta had a community of show line breeders not just the pedigree these people actually do the shows.

I think 1500 is a fair price for a good dog. I'm not after some 200 dollar scraggly dog. Ive got more standards than I'm getting credit for.

Thanks for the welcomes...I do think you guys should relax a little. not everyone who join's is here for a bargain puppy to down grade the gene pool. And I joined this board almost 2 years ago. I was just in Afghanistan and didn't have anything useful to say so all I've done is read.

Thanks again
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2014, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbaer View Post
Let me clarify, I think it would really help you guys understand what I refused to pay...

The first breeder I contacted offered me a 6 mth old but the contract said I had to show her in conformation and if wanted I had to let them breed her and they wanted 5k for this dog because of xx show lines in the pedigree.

Dog 2 from second breeder,3k 2 years old and is already pregnant I'd have to take her back and let them whelp puppies then she would be out rightly mine.

Breeders 3/4 no puppies but 4500 if they did. All because of their show line pedigree.

OK I'm not poor people, I'm not cheap either, but do any of you spend that much on a dog you have zero interest in showing?

All I said is Atlanta had a community of show line breeders not just the pedigree these people actually do the shows.

I think 1500 is a fair price for a good dog. I'm not after some 200 dollar scraggly dog. Ive got more standards than I'm getting credit for.

Thanks for the welcomes...I do think you guys should relax a little. not everyone who join's is here for a bargain puppy to down grade the gene pool. And I joined this board almost 2 years ago. I was just in Afghanistan and didn't have anything useful to say so all I've done is read.

Thanks again
I think some of those prices are high, and not what you are looking for. I do think you'll have to spend more than $1500, though, for a well bred dog, and you may need to expand out of your local area if you don't click with the local breeders.

Have you contacted Pamelot Dobermans? There are quite a few people on this forum who have Pamelot Dobermans (as pets, not show dogs, though out of show parents) who seem to be very happy with their dogs. As always, do your due diligence with asking about health testing, etc., as you would with any breeder.


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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2014, 12:34 PM
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Pamelot and Adamas are both in GA. Philmar, Blumont and Notori are in South Carolina. Cinematic Dobermans is in TN.

Good Luck!


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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2014, 02:28 PM
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Welcome...those are extremely high prices, imo, and conditions I wouldn't agree to either.

You might check this breeder out. She was only charging $1500 about six years ago, so her dogs might still be more reasonable IF she has any left in her current litter. Otherwise it might be another year before she has more. Keep in mind that she may have gone up since most everything concerning raising dogs has, food, vet bills and probably crops.

You could call her and check it out. She is about 30 miles west of Ft Worth.

My boy is from her, tho she has incorporated South American in her lines since she had Parker's litter. The sire of her current litter is a brother to Parker's sire tho. Really good dogs as most dobermans seem to be. There are pictures of Parker in my gallery.

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2014, 09:00 PM
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Those sound like Steve Parson prices!

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2014, 09:26 PM
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Those prices you were quoted are ridiculous , if i was planning to add a pup to the family i would expect to pay about $2000... any thing less will take patience.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2014, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbaer View Post
Let me clarify, I think it would really help you guys understand what I refused to pay...

The first breeder I contacted offered me a 6 mth old but the contract said I had to show her in conformation and if wanted I had to let them breed her and they wanted 5k for this dog because of xx show lines in the pedigree.

Dog 2 from second breeder,3k 2 years old and is already pregnant I'd have to take her back and let them whelp puppies then she would be out rightly mine.

Breeders 3/4 no puppies but 4500 if they did. All because of their show line pedigree.
Hello James. Number 1- THANK YOU for your service.

My family is heavy military for many generations.
I so appreciate your sacrifices. We have had them, too.

Number 2- Welcome to DT!

Just so people can help you a bit more, are you looking to purchase a baby puppy and raise? Or, are you open to a Rescue adult dog?

I have been on DT for years and the links to rescue Dobermans has shown some beautiful dogs that were given up due to the economy, etc..

There are, literally, a world full of people here on DT to help you.
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-18-2014, 09:17 AM
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Welcome to DT, James!

Those prices are insane, I agree! You can absolutely find a well breed dobe puppy for under or right at $2,000. May just have to expend your search. Good luck and I'm sure so many people here can help!

Thank you for your service, too!

"stay hungry, stay foolish."
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-21-2014, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
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I'm looking for a young adult or adult. I'm very active and puppies are no fun until they are 18mths or so. I have apps in with the rescue groups in my area. I'm sure I'll find one eventually or just end up with a puppy. There's draw backs to both.
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