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post #51 of 236 (permalink) Old 07-14-2007, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by doberkim View Post
Cesar was just recently inducted into the IACP, and Cesar and his people spoke to the group. I have a friend/trainer who is a member, and what she remembered most was that Cesar is bit a LOT MORE THAN THE SHOW REVEALS.

How's that for leaving out vital info for the at-home trainer?
This is exactly the type of thing I was talking about with my earlier post. The one about how they 'pan away' when big daddy gets rude over the food...........I think that if they are going to show his methods........SHOW THEM ALL OF IT, the good, the bad, and the ugly so to speak.

There are many things on TV for entertainment, and it matters little what they leave on the editing floor.............I don't feel this type of show is one of those. I may watch it for entertainment occasionally, but there are far too many people who use it as a base for training, and THEY NEED to see it ALL or NONE, period.

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post #52 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-10-2007, 01:42 PM
 
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I watch the show, but it's more to remind me how NOT to behave! When you watch the people on the show, it seems so obvious why thier dogs act the way they do... I like to watch it so I can remind myself not to behave like these owners. One thing is for certain though... the more exercise and excitement my dog gets in a day, the better behaved he is at quiet time in the evening.
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post #53 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-10-2007, 01:53 PM
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I like his attitude and given some of the people these dogs have to live with, it's no wonder they have issues! On a personal nobody-asked-me-note, why the heck would an intelligent woman like Selma Hayek have four high-energy malinois at home when her busy schedule allows her little free time to train them?....Then again, that's why people hire obedience trainers.....
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post #54 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-10-2007, 03:21 PM
 
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why the heck would an intelligent woman like Selma Hayek have four high-energy malinois at home when her busy schedule allows her little free time to train them?....Then again, that's why people hire obedience trainers.....
In a case like that, obedience would be nothing more than a bandage. The dogs need that energy to be physically and mentally drained out of them in a fulfilling way (i.e. structured walks and structured play). Third-party obedience training would not solve that issue. I, too, don't understand why people don't take into account the primal needs of the dog before adopting.
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post #55 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-10-2007, 04:54 PM
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In a case like that, obedience would be nothing more than a bandage. The dogs need that energy to be physically and mentally drained out of them in a fulfilling way (i.e. structured walks and structured play). Third-party obedience training would not solve that issue. I, too, don't understand why people don't take into account the primal needs of the dog before adopting.
Exactly. Four standard poodles sound more apropriate IMO. but 4 mals?! It depends on what scale but if she expects these dogs to lay around and be couch potatoes, IMO that is like a smaller form of neglect. People really do need to take into account a breeds needs.


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post #56 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-10-2007, 06:31 PM
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These celebrities have these dogs but how often are they taken care of by hired help. Look at what happened at Vingh Rames? house. His dogs mauled the caretaker to death. I don't believe in having dogs unless you fully commit to them. Money or not.
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post #57 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-10-2007, 06:34 PM
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These celebrities have these dogs but how often are they taken care of by hired help. Look at what happened at Vingh Rames? house. His dogs mauled the caretaker to death. I don't believe in having dogs unless you fully commit to them. Money or not.
Yep, ITA. I heard something different about the Vingh Rames thing.... but thats another story, I wont get into that.


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post #58 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-10-2007, 11:33 PM
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I worry about some of the things Cesar show on his shows I personally do not get to watch it do not have that channel. I also belong to a Doxie forum their is a lady with 4 Doxie's which have started attacking one of the Doxie's It has happened about 5 times in the last month. Well another Doxie person is super high on Cesar's methods told her to do the Alfa roll well she did and promptly was bit but she held the dog down till it relaxed. Now the aggression has escalated ? I suggested she get a behaviorist for a better way or crate 2 dogs at a time and just rotate them in & out and work on the NILF method of control. I know the Alfa roll was popular years ago but they seemed to think it causes more aggression in the dog???? Know it is very hard to do with a really big dog. Did it a couple of times with a full grown Bouvier but that was years ago.Not sure what the outcome with the Doxie pack will be so I put my 2 cents in and now will leave it alone.
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post #59 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-11-2007, 12:40 AM
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on Cesar's methods told her to do the Alfa roll well she did and promptly was bit
Exactly why rottie people in particular because its not a little bite anymore. Plus a lot of people agree, that method is outdated and often ineffective.


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post #60 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-11-2007, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Patches Mom View Post
Well another Doxie person is super high on Cesar's methods told her to do the Alfa roll well she did and promptly was bit but she held the dog down till it relaxed. Now the aggression has escalated ? I suggested she get a behaviorist for a better way or crate 2 dogs at a time and just rotate them in & out and work on the NILF method of control.
I haven't followed this thread... I do enjoy Cesar's show and did actually read his book, though don't think he's magic or that his methods work on every dog. The thing to keep in mind is that every dog is different. I think that people see the show and just try to pick certain methods out of it. Or use it without the knowledge to pick up really early behaviors- the dog is already in an anxious or aggressive state when they work with them. I've only seen the first season, but can't think of very many times where he even touched the dogs other than to get their attention. His point is that you are a leader, and a lot of this is taking other small steps to show this - not to just go right to such a severe behavior like an alpha roll, which is highly controversial, as we see here. He starts with having a dog pay attention to him, go on say a walk and not pull, not rush out a door, etc. He also stresses EXERCISE which we know most dogs don't get enough of. I'm sure this Doxie has many other behaviors that can be worked on in more subtle ways than the alpha roll. And yes, I think she should consult a behaviorist. I strongly believe in NILIF too - I think that's a much better place to start!

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post #61 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-11-2007, 06:03 PM
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I for one enjoy watching his show. Obviously what works for some doesn't necessarily work for all. But in this day and age of breed banning, I'm glad to know theres a person like him out there to help.
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post #62 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-13-2007, 01:13 AM
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I like the general messages of Cesar's show, but don't agree with some of his methods. I think it's great that some of the average dog owning population out there is hearing how important exercise is, and I agree that it is important to be calm when working with dogs. However I do not agree with some techniques he uses such as flooding and alpha rolling dogs. There are other methods out there which have much much less potential for fallout. Flooding can cause more problems than it solves, same with the alpha roll. Additionally I do not like that he gives explanations for why these methods works that are not actually based in fact or science. The alpha roll for example has been discounted, even the Monks of New Skete have stopped recommending it. It was based on studies of and misunderstandings of wolf behavior (not dog behavior).
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post #63 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-15-2007, 05:21 AM
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I for one enjoy watching his show. Obviously what works for some doesn't necessarily work for all. But in this day and age of breed banning, I'm glad to know theres a person like him out there to help.


Me too I like to watch ceasar and I agree it's not for everyone but anyone who can have the amount and mix of dog's he's got in his pack must be doing something right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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post #64 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-15-2007, 09:29 PM
 
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I love the show and have tried doing the SHH as a noise to get my dogs attenton and focus and it really works for my puppy it took some time but now when she hears it she snaps back into a calm state.I know that others things he does on the show are more difficult and shouldn't be attempted by just anyone.
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post #65 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-15-2007, 10:02 PM
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Its a show, its entertainment, its fun and anyone with any kind of love for animals will enjoy it. People love him, people hate him, its his methods. I watched a horrible episode of Jackass once too and didnt go out and try some of those tricks. Its too bad theres such negativity directed his way, he is certainly more famous than the rest of us.
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post #66 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-15-2007, 10:25 PM
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I'm reading his book right now "Caesars way" and I really like it. Hearing about his childhood and how he came to the USA is really inspirational. Also, you can tell he really loves dogs and has a deep understanding of canine behaviour that most people will never understand. I volunteer at a shelter and have been practising some of his techniques on red zone dogs. Two GSD's, a husky and a couple of pit bulls. The difference in their behaviour is really remarkable. I am actually able to work with them in a pack. It is amazing beacuse these dog's were extremly dog aggressive when they first came to our shelter.

I have completly adopted his training techniques into my life and will use them on my Dobe when I get him.

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post #67 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 09:37 PM
 
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What I have noticed is people who treat a dog like a dog, have no problems with Ceasar's methods. People who treat the dog like a child think he's barbaric. If you watch the show often, they do show him get bit & the difference with him & others is he keeps working with the dog. Alot of other trainers would suggest the dog be put down after a bite.

Ceasar's methods are the same as how a wild Dingo pack or Wolf pack treat it's members. They use their mouth to discipline the other members of the pack. They also pin memebers of the pack to the ground to get them to submit. There is the alpha & he says the pet owner needs to be the alpha or the dog will not respect you.

Big Daddy is actually Puff daddy's dog. he just leaves it with Ceasar all the time. Ceasar uses him to show people Pit Bulls are not the dogs people think they are. Most dogs are what their owners are, meaning they are what you train them to be.

This really comes down to, every dog trainer will have critics. There will always be other trainers who use other training methods & they will have issues with a trainer not using their techniques. Animal Planet now has 2 dog training shows - It's Me Or The Dog with Victoria Stillwell from England & Divine Canine with the New Skete Monks who breed & train German Shepherds. They are basically the same show as Dog Whisperer, just with very few differences & they don't have the RED ZONE cases Dog Whisperer does. The basic message on all the shows is exercise, discipline, affection - in that order.

The shows I like best is Adventures In Doggie Daycare on WE TV. It's the Downtown Dog Lounge in Seattle. 80 dogs getting playtime & 8 employees trying to keep up with them. That's fun stuff.

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post #68 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 05:14 PM
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What I have noticed is people who treat a dog like a dog, have no problems with Ceasar's methods. People who treat the dog like a child think he's barbaric. I
I don't think this is necessarily true. It's a rather unfair generalization. I do not treat my dogs like children and I know many many people who do not agree with Cesar's methods and also do not treat their dogs like children.
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post #69 of 236 (permalink) Old 08-21-2007, 08:36 PM
 
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I don't think this is necessarily true. It's a rather unfair generalization. I do not treat my dogs like children and I know many many people who do not agree with Cesar's methods and also do not treat their dogs like children.
which is fine, but like I also said, I am sure every single dog trainer will have someone that feels their way of doing things isn't right. Just like everything in life. Whatever you do, there will always be someone who doesn't think you do it properly.
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post #70 of 236 (permalink) Old 09-01-2007, 07:12 PM
 
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What I do like about the show is that re-enforces the point that dogs require more than 2 meals a day and a place to sleep. If it makes one person think long and hard before getting a dog for a companion, the show is worthy of being on the air.
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post #71 of 236 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 02:23 PM
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Considering the mindset of the general human population nowadays, I think it's a good show. My wife worships him. She grew up a "city girl" with little contact with animals. I grew up as a country boy with lots and lots of animals and pets. What looks like a miracle to my wife looks like common sense to me. I haven't watched the show very often, but from what I've seen, his methods seem to be pretty acceptable. I like that he teaches the pet owners that they are the problem.
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post #72 of 236 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 02:32 PM
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I LOVE him, and the show. It gets pretty repetative so I havent been watching for a while.
Also, just to clarify, Dadi (or big daddy as some have been calling him) belongs to Ludacris and not P Diddy.
I am not sure what flooding is but when he does the alpha roll he doesnt use a lot of force, he basically just touches the dog and it rolls, he also doesnt hold the dog down, it just lies there. So I dont think he is out of line at all.
Not saying that normal ppl should do what he does, but for him it works.
I wish I could afford to have him work with Obie and me.
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post #73 of 236 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 02:58 PM
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I LOVE him, and the show. It gets pretty repetative so I havent been watching for a while.
Also, just to clarify, Dadi (or big daddy as some have been calling him) belongs to Ludacris and not P Diddy.
I am not sure what flooding is but when he does the alpha roll he doesnt use a lot of force, he basically just touches the dog and it rolls, he also doesnt hold the dog down, it just lies there. So I dont think he is out of line at all.
Not saying that normal ppl should do what he does, but for him it works.
I wish I could afford to have him work with Obie and me.

daddy belonged to Redman not ludacris or p diddy, and redman gave him to cesar milan because he didnt have enopugh time for him
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post #74 of 236 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 05:58 PM
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wow just caught this tread..

I LOVE CEASAR MIALN !!

i watch everyday whilest im working from 6.30 till 7 pm on some freeview chanel in the uk.

i have put a lot of his methods in to practice for my 2 and it has helped no end !!!

when we got missy she was nervous and barky, i started to " oh poor baby " cuddle lol..a couple of days later and an episode of ceasar.. made me go " oh bugger" been doin that wrong what was i thinkin.. stopped the babying,, started to be assertive when she was barkin at the neighbours.. missy changed in a couple of days and is now a fantastic dog.. i have pcut some of his methods in place with zeus 2.

i know i would not have 2 well behaved and rounded dogs with out his show.. and that means a lot to me !!!

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post #75 of 236 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 06:22 PM
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I have watched the show a bunch of times. I like how he points out to the owners that they are the problem and the dogs problem is a direct result of that. Most people don't realize that the issue's start with them. I think his methods are good in the right hands and are not for everyone. He has a talent, however I hope going so commercialized (his books, videos,merchandise etc) doesn't cloud his talent. I have seen this happen to many top notch horse trainers that got too big and before you know it everything comes back to the almighty dollar.


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