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Covid -9 and Socialization

2K views 13 replies 8 participants last post by  melbrod 
#1 ·
Since the onslaught of Covid-19, stay at home orders, social distancing, and everything else in-between, I haven't been doing much with Zeus in the form of socializing. Granted, he's 2 years old and we did a ton of socialization from the moment we got him up until March of this year, but it's been months of mostly him and me (and my husband once the university shut down) hanging out at home. No group obedience classes. No meeting up with friends. No going to the mall or stores to practice calmly walking with distractions. I was nervous to even take him to PetSmart when picking up dog food.

I'm still wanting him to become a therapy dog at some point, and there are things he still needs to work on. He's gotten WAY better at not barking at dogs that enter a room (he never had issues with barking at dogs outside.. it's only when he's inside and another one enters), but he still has goofs. I know Pet Partners is super strict, and I want to continue working on that problem specifically .. but I'm still wary about bringing him places to practice. I don't think there's been cases of dogs getting sick, but I know /I/ feel completely contaminated when I have to go out to the store or someplace, and that's with a mask. Zeus is totally naked (so to speak) so I feel like every step he takes and every little thing he'll sniff at is a chance for him to pick up a virus.

Am I being too paranoid?
 
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#2 · (Edited)
These are tough times, that's for sure.

Here in Minnesota, cases are dropping, but for a lot of the country, that isn't the case. I can understand how you feel about your hopes for Zeus; we got new kittens in late January from a breeder, and one of them was specifically chosen in hopes of being a therapy cat. I'm coming to terms with the fact that it literally may not happen. He had gone on two outings before the pandemic hit. They went great, but now his entire kittenhood has been spent with no interaction with strangers. There was nothing I could do about it. I'm not sure outstanding genetics can overcome that. I'm incredibly sad about it.

I think you need to balance safety and your desire to work with Zeus. If you aren't following Dr. Osterholm at all, he's been very good about giving good information that is super helpful. His articles and information are on the University of Minnesota School of Public Health Facebook page. (Edited to add, you can find the Osterholm update on the CIDRAP page here: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/) He just had a great interview on NPR in the last week or so. He has reminded us recently that being outdoors has been shown to be very safe, especially with distance. My Nosework class here in MN, for example, has resumed, outdoors. I would feel very comfortable working on something with my dogs outdoors. Maybe going to a Petsmart and staying outside, watching people, working on commands. Simply watching the activity. Even watching people in masks may be a new thing for him that he could acclimate to. Or, going to a nursing home and watching from afar, if he can watch people in walkers and wheelchairs. Not interacting, but if there's somewhere he can watch and just get used to them would be progress.

I would not worry about Zeus getting sick. Use the same precautions you always would. Don't have him interact with other dogs, or with people outside your household. You wouldn't do that anyway while you are working with him. Additionally, Dr. Osterholm has said recently that there is more evidence that surfaces are not so worrisome as we initially thought. It's really breathing in the virus in prolonged contact with someone in a closed environment. Our chance of contracting covid really depends on our proximity to someone and the amount of time of exposure.

I hope that helps. I think if you can be creative about places to maybe work with him outdoors where there are people (but NOT crowded!), that's what I'd be doing. Or, expose him to experiences that he might need to have - things like riding in elevators if he hasn't done that (a parking garage can be a great place to do this!), or, going unusual places, just to expand his "weird experiences" ...the more he gets used to strange things and is just like "meh", the better. A good therapy dog just lets everything roll off their back.
 
#3 ·
First off - I have to say that Meadowcats post was outstanding ! And dead on in my book !

Mouser - I know how you feel - We had great , great hopes with Mr. Business this summer , that , for the most art has gone bye , bye , Rosemary posted up about the AKC has a virtual reality you can do - like Rally OB and tape it and send it in - Maybe that is something that Zeus and you can do - I know we are going to try it and see what happens .

I have not seen this , but my wife has seen it a couple of times where Doctors said that a dog or cat has got the c-19 from there owners and if they go to the vet to wipe them down - especially there paws if they had been out - as they say - keep them in your circle - Know don't laugh to hard here - but our circle is , My wife , Mr. B and I - no kidding .

I have been posting about being very nervous about our new pup coming to us in July - I really do know the root of that problem ! Its the trip to pick her up , meeting up with the breeder - the whole deal ! My wife is very worried about me doing the deal - I told her not to worry - I will just treat it like I do a pickup , mask on - distance - the whole deal -we should be fine .

I need to take Kadin on a trip soon too ! Just a trip around the country side will help - I told the girls at the Vets office , one day we will drive by the front door and they can wave to Mr. B - they got a kick out of that and said they would do it . :grin2::grin2:

You will do fine Mouser ! Just do what they ask to do and what Meadowcat said about the out door stuff , And SMILE ! Or your hair will be the color of mine ! = The prettiest gray you ever saw - and NO laughing :grin2:
 
#4 ·
Great advice from both MeadowCat and EICN, and good suggestions from both.

I'd be far less worried about my dog having problems with potential infection of COVID-19 than I am when I go out (which isn't much that's outside my yard) to the store and over half of the folks in there this me are NOT wearing masks. Makes me grumpy to think that while I'm masked because it's protection for them they evidently don't care about the rest of us.

dobebug
 
#5 ·
I have taken Loki to an outdoor mall that is partially closed (masked) and nearby grassy parks. He is pretty good at that, but if he sees a dog 50 yards away he flips out! We live in an area with fire trails and nature also, but there are more folks out there with their dogs due to free time/ corona, and it's pretty hard to see them until they are upon you. I am going to take him to a bigger mall soon. He went to a more active mall and inside the pet-store there 2 or 3 times. We have a big hurdle because we got him at 1 and he had already passed 3 owners. Other than outings for exercize or food we are home all the time. Luckily Bella has recovered and they play together well, and the yard is secure and big.
 
#6 ·
Just realized I have a typo in the title... Covid -9? Yeah, let me not invent a new virus!

Thank you all, especially @MeadowCat, for your input. I'll definitely check out Dr. Osterholm and his findings, which hopefully will put some of my more paranoid worries at ease. As for Zeus ... yes, I need to get him out. I know he's regressed in some things and has probably gained some bad habits. For example, leaving him by himself has been more of a chore than it's ever been. He's never had issues staying in his kennel for a few hours in the past. The past two days, I've caught him crying in his kennel when I get home from running a few necessary errands. I don't know if it's because he hears me pull up and gets excited, or if he sits in there and cries for hours. The first time I heard him I literally ran into the house, thinking there was something wrong, but when I got in he just stood up in his kennel with his Kong toy in his mouth, stubby tail wiggling away. *facepalm* I have a camera I'm going to set up so I can spy on him the next time I leave, but separation anxiety has never, ever been an issue. He also barks at any little sound that he hears outside when he's in the house, which is new. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's just adjusting to a new place because we've only been in this new house for a week, but a part of me worries that having been socially distanced from everyone but my husband and me has made him more anxious about things and needier than the usual Doberman amount of needy.

He's still good on walks though. Happy to see people. Ignores dogs that bark at him. Just this evening a dog literally burst through a backyard fence (old, falling down fence with tons of gaps..) and came running up to us barking, with its owner hollering in its wake. I started shouting and waving my free arm to try to keep it away, not knowing if was aggressive or not. Zeus didn't freak out at all. (me, on the other hand, vow to walk with either a thick stick or pepper spray from now on as this morning we also encountered a loose Chow Chow and chihuahua)

I will take the advice given and work with him outdoors. Near businesses and in the neighborhood as well, as there are a lot of kids (which he loves) as distractions. Hopefully he'll settle in and the above habits will dissipate.
@dobebug, I feel you about the whole mask thing. Texas is pretty bad. Bad enough that the governor is pumping the breaks on his whole "Reopening Phase" plan because the new cases are out of control. Becaaaauuuse people here are acting like the pandemic is over. Individual counties are implementing a mask requirement when entering businesses and such, but it's not statewide. It was in New Mexico.
@ECIN I've seen your posts abut your new addition! Good luck when you finally go get her! And stay safe! How's Mr. Business feel about getting a new baby sister? ;) Keep us posted on the virtual rally that you do with him. And if you're allowed to after, you should post your video entry here so we can see it! (and your beautiful head of silver hair, lol!)
@princess bella I hope Loki can continue to practice being calm around other dogs! I know it's a lot of work, but persistence pays off for sure. :) Like you're doing, I'll be venturing out soon.

Thanks again!
 
#7 ·
Gamermouse -

Separation anxiety is becoming a problem for a lot of dogs who are getting used to their people being home with them all the time. People who are now working from home, staying home all the time, etc. If that is your circumstance, you may want to start working on a protocol for Zeus.

Sypha can be a little clingy, so we're making a strong effort to be sure that she's still home without us sometimes, more like "normal" life. We make sure to leave the house without her. We take a walk without the dogs. We'll go take a drive, leave for a couple of hours, etc. It sounds like Zeus may be struggling, so you may even want to set up a routine that's more similar to what life is like for him in "normal" time - would he be crated during the day? If so, maybe crate him for a few hours while you work, in a room that you aren't in. You can set him up in there with a stuffed Kong, a yummy chew, the sorts of things you'd do with crate training to start if you need.

There are some really good webinars and resources out there right now for dogs/covid-19 and separation, if you need it. There are also good resources for socializing puppies during covid-19, and you may find those helpful for your needs, too.
 
#8 ·
Hey Gamer!
Great to hear from you.
Recently I purchased a real small air horn. Real easy to put into my pocket.
I sound it off for a recall so Hoss gets used to the sound..just a quick tap.
BUT when we are out and about if we get rushed by other dogs ....I just tap that horn and those other animals drop to the ground then run away.
Plus it embarrasses the heck out of the neglectful owners of their unruly critters.
Good to have on hand for any emergency really......air horn are real loud.
I also come armed with Citronella spray ........I have a taser also but would probably never use unless it was my last resort.
It’s a real fine line when we are forced to deal with someone else’s unruly pets.
Air horn is my go to in an emergency because I can get to it REAL fast .......just an FYI......
Meanwhile Zeus has matured.....I found with Hoss that something real magical happens between 2 and three years.
Zeus is putting together all of his lessons and mastering his smarts.
Don’t let him play you........he is such a smart boy! :grin2::grin2::grin2:
 
#9 ·
Hi All,

Quick Updates:
  • Zoe is growing up very quickly, she is almost 6 months now. She did have round worm and UTI right after we got her and brought her to her first vet visit but she is all fully recovered now.
  • We've lost our older dog (Ace) in late Oct. He was 13 years and 3 months and died naturally 30 mins before our scheduled euthanasia. We were supposed to put him down back in June when he had bad fall and could not walk but he recovered and gave us 5 extra months and enough time for us to find Zoe.
  • We completed Zoe's puppy class but unfortunately had to postpone her first in-person obedience class to Apr 2021 due to recent COVID restrictions. In-home training continues along with almost daily walks and plays. Really appreciated the in-person class to socialize with other puppies and people in a safe environment.

Questions:
I've read several of the socialization articles on the forum and ext websites and have been trying to get Zoe introduced to as many things, dogs and people (mostly from a distance) as possible. However, introducing to people has been a challenge since we only meet people outdoors, most of the time. We've had family come inside the house maybe 3x since Apr and the most recent was during Halloween. She was fine at that time (she was maybe too young to feel threatened of someone outside the household in our house).

Last night, our 32-year old nephew from out of town who also has a dog and is very comfortable with protective dogs came to our house. We try to be as safe as possible so all of wore a mask all the time. Zoe first started barking and growling a little at him even after he and all of us settled down. I tried to turn it into a positive thing by giving her treats only when she was not barking and slowly let her smell him. I also let my nephew feed her treats. She warmed up a little but was still very uneasy with a new person in the house, pretty much the whole time (a few hours).

I also felt like she was looking for directions from me on what to do and I asked her to sit and down at times which she followed but I don't know how to communicate to her that this person is friendly and don't need to bark. Our older dog Ace (Pitbull Mix) did the same thing (barking at first) to visitors but he warmed up after just a few mins.

With the ongoing pandemic, we're not expecting many visitors to the house and trying to figure out how to train her to behave well when a visitor comes to the house.

Once the pandemic is under control, we will resume our social life and will have many visitors and she will have the opportunity to get used to having new people in the house but I don't think that is going to happen anytime sooner than 3 to 6 months from now. She'll be about 9 mths to a year at that time and I'm concerned it'll be a huge challenge to get her used to having visitors in the house.

Other than the loose leash walking (I know this takes time), she has been behaving very well and all the daily training at home for tricks, house manners etc. is going good as well. She is still teething so there is still some challenges of her chewing something that she is not supposed to but it has gotten a lot better and hopefully she'll grow out of that soon.

Any thoughts on how her ears are looking?

I really appreciate the advice on how to train a dog when a visitor comes to the house.

Thank you.
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#10 ·
Her ears are looking really nice, but they are tipping in just a little. I don't think you need a bridge anymore (it's possible you're making it just a little too short, which will pull her ears in) Use a bumper on the post so that it pushes on the inside of her ear where it meets the top of her head to make sure her ears are standing upright.

See here, about half-way through the post where it says "this step is optional"

When you let go of her ears right after you finish taping them up, they should fall into a 10 and 2 O'clock position \__/. You don't want them to point inward at all (not like this /_\

It is probably to be expected that she would be a little uncomfortable with new folks in the house these days.

I think what I would do is focus on teaching her a "place" command—send her to a mat or dog bed that is within view of everything that is going on, ask her to lie down comfortably and stay there. After a guest has been there for a few minutes and she gets a chance to see how you folks respond to him and seems to have relaxed a bit, you can let her up but don't really pay any special attention to her—nothing that will lead her to believe that you folks are uneasy about your company, or about her reaction to them.

Don't encourage her to approach the guest; in fact, ask your guest to ignore her completely. It's great if she go closer on her own; it's nice to give her treats when she is behaving too—but don't push her to go closer than she is comfortable with. Let her approach the person at her own speed.

It would probably be a good halfway step that you can put into play even with the restrictions (?) to invite someone into your yard. Sit down with them (social distancing, of course), get comfortable and chat. Move around the yard while you talk too, so she can get used to how people act when they are visiting with each other.

She probably thinks of her yard as her territory too to some degree, so meeting and greeting in your yard may help her to become a little more relaxed with a new person actually inside the inner sanctum :) of her home.
 
#11 ·
Agree with Mel on ears.

I think this is a real struggle that people are going to have with puppies raised during the pandemic, but particularly with guarding breeds. Mel's idea to have people in the yard is a good one to start.

What Mel said about a place command is a good one. I also want to emphasize how important it is that everyone needs to IGNORE her when they come over. She shouldn't be getting treats from them, and really, don't encourage her to go interact with them. The goal is really for her to just get comfortable with their presence. She doesn't need to start approaching them, she simply needs to be okay with them being there. You should be the one giving her treats and interacting with her. I wouldn't push her to interact with them because you'll be pushing her too far. Right now, you just want her to be comfortable. The means keeping her at a distance where she feels good. I'd be doing lots and lots of feeding treats, and I wouldn't wait for her to follow any commands. You're using simple classical conditioning in this scenario - the presence of other people in her house (when invited) means GOOD THINGS HAPPEN. When the other people leave, the rewards stop.
 
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#12 ·
I have found that human visitors do things that add to the dogs excitement.
First thing I tell my visitors is “Hoss is invisible” do not look at him or touch him when you enter my home.
The reason I did this is because when my older sons came over the first thing they would want to do is attempt to wrestle with my dog or scratch the hell out of his back. Then once Hoss was doing zomies all over the place and having struggles settling down they would ask ....Isn’t Hoss in training??? Ticked me off.....as we work hard to maintain nice manners.
Then I told them when I go to visit your children do I come through the door and start with all this excitement .....or grab ahold of their noses and shake it all around.....so thats when I began educating my sons along with others “Hoss is invisible”.
If the humans do not listen then Hoss is placed in his bedroom Until they leave.
My sons say I am to strict with my dog but IMO they have no idea the strength of a Doberman.
We only have one lady that I will not allow around my dog. She insists on pounding on her chest to get Hoss to jump up on her so he can give her kisses (In her mouth) YUCK!!! She proclaims she is teaching him a trick that she has taught to all of her dogs.
I warned her that was not acceptable behavior with our dog but she continued so now no more close contact with my dog.
 
#13 ·
Thank you All, for your advices. It's greatly appreciated.

I was wondering when would be a good time to remove the bridge. The bridge was recommended by our breeder, I've been using it all along and it has worked well. I'll remove it the next posting and add the bumpers. I see some people posting the ears in the \/ shape and when I did that (with the bridge slightly longer), my breeder said it needs to be || - like a goal post.

I agree that the /\ ears is not good and I thought it'll correct itself when we stop posting altogether but I'm ready to remove the bridge and I think it'll naturally fall into the \/ shape. What would be your guess in how much longer we'll have to post the ears based on how it looks now? She is almost 6 months.

Great advice on the manners with visitors. We'll get her to go to her place and ask the guests to ignore her. It's a little challenging since all my extended families have Labs that are just so happy to see anyone who walks into their house (including robbers :rolleyes: - just kidding) but I understand it'll take time for her to get comfortable.

Good idea on inviting people to the backyard. I'm sure she sees the backyard as our territory as she is constantly running and walking along the privacy fence. What should be the protocol when visitors come to the backyard? Keep her on a leash? She really does not have her "place" in the backyard.

I'm also planning to take her more frequently to pet friendly stores (HomeDepot / PetSmart) just to see other people and get used to it. I've done a few times and it's just that you can tell from the way people look at the ear posting, mostly curious but with everyone in their face mask, it's just different.

Just about everybody that talks to us asks about the ears and happy to answer just can't wait to be done with the posting.
 
#14 ·
It probably wouldn't hurt to leash her, at least for a few minutes until you can see her reaction and make sure she has relaxed enough to be on her own.

I generally use a casual down stay somewhere close to me to put my dogs into a relaxed place, even if only to keep them from being overly friendly or curious (repairmen aren't exactly happy with a doberman helping them do their job—neither an alert intent stare nor a lick on the back of the neck goes down well. LOL) If I'm going to have a prolonged seated conversation with someone, it's nice to have them just sacked out beside me instead of pacing around the house—I don't want to have to keep a little of my awareness tuned into "what are they doing now?" when I'm chatting.

She's young yet and might not be able to manage an unleashed relaxed stay next to you for long, but you can certainly start teaching it.
 
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