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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-06-2020, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Yulie View Post
I didn't switch too soon, it was overtime and I fed him a mix of Purina and Orijen for about 14 days after we got him. He never had diarrhea issues from switching. We wanted to feed him higher quality food.
We've seen this over and over and over on the forum. People switch puppies off the food the breeder feeds and they get diarrhea. Then they switch from food to food to food, never giving them time to adjust to the new food, and they have constant stomach issues. I bet you could find at least 20 threads with the exact same symptoms. I bet if you'd left your pup on the food for at least 2 to 3 months (or, better, never switched), you wouldn't be having these issues.

Of course, to each their own, but...most of the very experienced, long-time Doberman folks recommend keeping puppies on the food they arrive on, no matter how "bad" you think it is, for a good three months. Transitioning to a new home is a big change. Adding a food change, even slow, is often simply too much.

You'll also find lots and lots of long-time Doberman folks that have fed Proplan for decades with great results. (For example, dobebug has had Dobermans for, what, over 30 years now? More? And they've lived an average of 10 years or more, all eating Proplan. Her last boy was 14. On Proplan. I know of many, many, many similar stories.

Again, feed what you want. Your dog, your choice.


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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-07-2020, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you guys for the food chats! And thanks for the again reassurance. In regards to my pups loose yellow stool we too tried Focus PPP Sensitive Stomach on an extremely slow transition and his stomach got worse too! So many people rave about it I was sure he’d be good on it but as said every dobie is different 😢 we were looking into lamb based next but now I’m not sure! We were thinking about trying Victors grain-inclusive versions of food next but I don’t know which one. He’s also having anal gland issues because of his low quality food so I’m wondering if I need to find him a higher fiber food and Victor is less fiber.. we also have considered a Limited Ingredient diet to try and calm his tummy, has anyone had luck specifically with any LID? If so what brand?

Also in response to a previous comment luckily he is not a anxious chewer so he has not tried to pull the blanket through his crate. We actually have left a pillow in there for him he hasn’t tried to destroy or even chew at all, thankfully.
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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-07-2020, 11:50 AM
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I would talk to your vet, and see about maybe putting him on something like Hill's ID until his digestive system calms down, and then start a slow transition to a regular grain-inclusive food.


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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-07-2020, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katlin Tarrer View Post
Thank you guys for the food chats! And thanks for the again reassurance. In regards to my pups loose yellow stool we too tried Focus PPP Sensitive Stomach on an extremely slow transition and his stomach got worse too! So many people rave about it I was sure hed be good on it but as said every dobie is different 😢 we were looking into lamb based next but now Im not sure! We were thinking about trying Victors grain-inclusive versions of food next but I dont know which one. Hes also having anal gland issues because of his low quality food so Im wondering if I need to find him a higher fiber food and Victor is less fiber.. we also have considered a Limited Ingredient diet to try and calm his tummy, has anyone had luck specifically with any LID? If so what brand?

Also in response to a previous comment luckily he is not a anxious chewer so he has not tried to pull the blanket through his crate. We actually have left a pillow in there for him he hasnt tried to destroy or even chew at all, thankfully.
Hi Katllin,

With the exception of a few kibble manufacturers I would be very reluctant to try any limited ingredient formula. I've looked at the formulas of these limited ingredient diets from many that are offered as the answer to suspected allergies because of their limited ingredients and have pretty consistently found that the ingredients are not really limited at all.

If you are going to try that I'd stick with foods manufactured by the bigger outfits who more often actually have feeding trials to make sure some of their offerings actually work. An awful lot of the smaller outfits rely on computer modeled foods which may or may not work.

Most of these diets are prescription. So the brands that have real limited ingredient formulas would generally be Hills/Science Diet, Royal Canin, and Purina. Iams/Eukanuba used to have a prescription line but recently sold it to Royal Canin who now carry the various prescription formulas formerly offered by Iams.

Sometimes what looks like a sensitive stomach turns out to be less of sensitive and more of just plain overfeeding--which is pretty easy to do with growing puppies because the males will often eat anything and as much as you stick in front of them and soft stools and diarrhea are often directly related to just plain too much food.

I've had Dobermans since 1959 and over time have fed mostly foods by the big name manufacturers. This started as a recommendation by my first vet and has worked pretty well for me all these years. Some of the foods I fed in the first 10 or 15 years have either vanished off the face of the earth or have become part of some larger manufacturer but the four I mention above are still around and it's generally because even the non-prescription formulas have worked for most dogs most of the time.

I think I've said elsewhere than the Purina Focus ProPlan foods have worked well for me and my fall back is the "Sensitive Skin and Stomach" (formerly and now subtitled Salmon and Rice) but I had one dog who didn't do well on it but ate the Chicken and Rice for about 8 years without problems.

I pass this along as a suggestion. Hills has a non-prescription food--called Sensitive Skin and Stomach--one of the people I work with has Bull Mastiff's and had endless problems with soft stools and diarrhea--she tried several different kibbles and the Hills rep was in one day when she was talking again to one of the vets about the problem and the rep asked if she'd tried the fairly new formula for skin and stomach. She hadn't but the rep gave her a big bag of it and and for the two dogs she had at that time it was like a magic bullet--in the first week of feeding that the dogs had firm, formed stools. This worked for her and have been recommended to several of the clinic clients and it seems to generally work well.

I had so many problems with lamb as a protein that after trying it three times from three different manufacturers with different carb's (the problem was the same--inside a month to 6 weeks of feeding anything with lamb their coat turned to crap--dry, itchy and dull and I couldn't keep weight on the Dobes--increasing the amount I was feeding led to soft stools and diarrhea) I have declined to try it again. And recently found several articles about lamb which kind of gave explanations about my problems with the lamb--it has to do with digestability. The articles I found rated various meat protein sources from least digestable to most digestable with lamb on the bottom and salmon on the top.

If there is a suspicion that your dogs problem might be an actual food allergy or sensitivity (actually pretty rare) several of the vet allergist/dermatologists that we talk to about such things have started using the fully hydrolized kibbles manufactured by Hills (ZD), Royal Canin (HP), or Purina (HA). These are all prescription foods and expensive. But they are all fully hydrolized which means the proteins (both animal and vegetable) so that the protein molecules which a long complex forms are broken into shorter link which the animals body doesn't recognize as an allergen.

These formula's have also been used successfully to feed puppies who sometimes have sensitivities that haven't been identified specifically and the hydolized formulas can be fed in lieu of conventional diets long enough to settle the reactions to ordinary food down long enough for a puppy's underdeveloped GI system to catch up and then they can be switched to ordinary foods.

Just some suggestion to discuss with your vet.

I learned far more than I ever wanted to know about "true" allergies from a cat--he was a clinic rescue (if you work for a vet clinic you often find yourself with the dregs that no one wants). He was a perfectly ordinary cat until he was about 10 months when he started having diarrhea and frequent vomiting--we switched him to ID--and it worked for several months and the diarrhea and vomiting started again. That time we switched him to Hill ZD--(and that's when we eventually found out that while the dog formula is fully hydrolized in the kibble the cat was not--the canned food was but of course the cat was one of those that doesn't like canned food. Ultimately we found Royal Canin's HP and once he was on that all of the puking and diarrhea stopped--and you always knew when he had found something to eat that wasn't his hydrolized food--because it caused practically instant diarrhea and vomiting. Shortly after that Purina came out with HA--and he's lived on that and the Royal Canin for the last 15 years (he's now 17 and doing well).

In the last six month before we figured out what the problem was and how to treat it he went from a 12 pound cat (not so very big) to a 6 pound cat who looked like he was made of sticks. He was starving because he wasn't utilizing any of the regular foods.

And it's been said, on other discussions about feeding that to some degree it's always a matter for trying thing until you find something that works. This is often frustrating but all I have to do is think about my roommates Beagle who had horrible skin problems until I asked a Beagle breeder at a dog show what he fed--he told me and I swear if you read the label it looked more like floor sweepings than dog food --very low % of both fat and protein. But all the skin issues went away...

Good luck with figuring out what will work for your boy.

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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-07-2020, 03:50 PM
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As Bug said, one thing we see repeatedly on the forum is that overfeeding and that jumping from food to food is a huge cause of diarrhea in pups. And, we see a lot of pups that simply don't do well on the so-called "high end" foods. I was going to mention specifically another member that went through similar stuff - gamermouse, and I was trying to find what her boy ended up on (Hills Sensitive Stomach) and it brought me to your thread back when you first posted...and now I remember that you've been struggling with diarrhea issues for a while (https://www.dobermantalk.com/food-fe...ggestions.html). Did you ever end up going back to Puppy Chow? Did poops stabilize? Just thinking it might help us help you if we can get a better picture of where things were at before the Kong/crate situation. Have you been switching foods around or did you end up getting him on a food and having good, consistent, stools and no stomach issues?


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT L1V L1E L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG DOG TKN WAC
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post #31 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-07-2020, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
As Bug said, one thing we see repeatedly on the forum is that overfeeding and that jumping from food to food is a huge cause of diarrhea in pups. And, we see a lot of pups that simply don't do well on the so-called "high end" foods. I was going to mention specifically another member that went through similar stuff - gamermouse, and I was trying to find what her boy ended up on (Hills Sensitive Stomach) and it brought me to your thread back when you first posted...and now I remember that you've been struggling with diarrhea issues for a while (https://www.dobermantalk.com/food-fe...ggestions.html). Did you ever end up going back to Puppy Chow? Did poops stabilize? Just thinking it might help us help you if we can get a better picture of where things were at before the Kong/crate situation. Have you been switching foods around or did you end up getting him on a food and having good, consistent, stools and no stomach issues?
Yeah I did post about his struggles a while back, we did return him to Purina puppy chow to try and settle his stomach but nothing changed sadly, we also considered that we were over feeding and we lowered his food intake from 2 &1/2 cups twice a day to 1 & 1/2 cups twice a day and absolutely not change sadly, he wasn’t gaining weight and got kinda thin for a couple weeks so we slowly increased back up. We only tried the Pruina Pro Plan Salmon and rice that upset his stomach worse and then went back to the puppy chow to not over stimulate his stomach and said we’d try again once his stomach settles but that never happened. . . We also think he’s having anal gland issues that could keep him from his poops being solid regardless so as of now the plan is to take him to the vet for his anal glands bc I can’t for the life of me seem to do it myself lol. Then see if that helps, then transition him Super slow to a new food. We’re looking at Victor maybe. Then see how that goes and play it from there ..
he’s been on another round of antibiotics, antacids and probiotics due to blood in his stool for one day. He has it then but that was it (about 2 weeks ago) otherwise still the same soft yellow stool, sometimes rubbery or mucous looking. His poops are pickup-able I think due to the probiotics but the more he poops through the day the looser they are and still very soft even when I can pick them up somewhat easy.
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