I'm out of Ideas and need help - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
General Training & Obedience All training and obedience questions, tips, articles go here

 47Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
Alpha
 
ECIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 6,915
Location: Indiana
Dogs Name: Kadin aka Mr. Business & Ali
Titles: Blue Ribbon's Every Day
Dogs Age: 2 & 9
Gallery Pics: 328
Visit ECIN's Gallery
Thanks: 20,473
Thanked 25,006 Times in 6,561 Posts
Images: 328
                     
Click here to find out how ECIN became a supporter
I'm out of Ideas and need help

I'm am totally besides myself here - Ok - lets start from the top - Mr. Business has always been a little reactive to other dogs . I have took him to 2 different OB classes to rectify this problem - the second class was a group class 2 years or so ago - every time we walked in the class he would get excited and bark - want to spin around - you name it - then in maybe a minute at tops - he was fine - would lay down on command - sit , you name it - he was great in the OB part which he passed with high praise from the trainer .

Now to present time , He has gotten worse ! It's to the point - I don't want to take him to town - like Rural King - Pet stores - he just gets almost uncontrollably then he settles down . Here is what I have learned from him - It's not really him - it's the damn retraceable leads ! After his second group OB class - he was pretty good in public - then a dog ran at him and then is when it started and only got worse - it's like every time we go to town - so a dog will charge him then is game on with him .

I took him to the vets office 2 weeks ago to weigh him and just get out of the house - there are double doors there - as I was getting ready to open the first set and Some damn Cocker ran right at the second set that leads us into the office - I turned Kadin around - we walked around outside then back to the door - I did good at distracting him and getting the Cocker off his mind - We walked back in - this time as I started to open the second set --- here came that effing Cocker again and a full run - barking and raising cane - I put my hands on my hips with added chitty look and the guy come running to get his dog off the doors - Buy this time - the guy had was holding his Cocker in his arms for dear life - I wanted to chew some azz so bad - but didn't - I'm trying to be more PC in my older age !

I chit you not ! Before we got out of there - another Cocker came in on a retract and did the same thing - ran right at Kadin - I got him turned and took him behind the reception desk while I gave that owner a look from hell ! Then they returned the favorite to us - which I was going down hill quick with my being PC in a public place - the Tech was on it and got the other dog out of there and into the Exam room .

These Dumazz owners are about to ruin my boy - And its all them damn leads and stupid owners . They think there dogs should have free run and then think I have a unruly Dog .

I have talked to Patty at the Anderson Dog training facility and told her my problem - and its a big problem - I want to start taking a Rally OB class + hit the road with him at shows - She said Ken - all you need to do is get him in the show environment and he'll be fine - I need to get him out much more - the problem is the class is only once a week - Once is not enough at this time and I have no where else to tak him in a professional atmosphere - just idiots in the other places in town .

Sorry here , I'm about done with my rant

But Greenie , Meadowcat , 79 , 1982 , PB and all the others out there - what am I to do here . Kadin - I think - has it in his head that every dog is going to charge him - he is on guard .

Also - He watches TV - when a dog comes on - he will give out a low growl - I have been using that as a training tool - I turn on the animal plant channel and tell him its ok - believe this or not - it has helped him some .

I need to get this under control .

Any advise will be appreciated .
dobebug and LadyDi like this.

Last edited by ECIN; 02-15-2020 at 09:41 AM.
ECIN is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to ECIN For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (02-17-2020), ellierose (02-17-2020), LadyDi (02-15-2020), melbrod (02-15-2020), spocksdad (02-15-2020), TNfisher (02-15-2020), yuki_cos (02-16-2020)
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 10:46 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,494

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobebug's Gallery
Thanks: 13,536
Thanked 26,643 Times in 6,672 Posts
                     
Kenny,

You might try the thing I do with all puppies--where I go, they go--even if it's only two blocks down the street.

Especially if you go someplace that allows dogs but isn't dog specific (like the pet store)--finding places that might have a few dogs but not a lot of dogs works well--when I was in Vermont (a very dog friendly place) the Aussie who was a puppy at the time went to the library and the bank with me (I went to the library a lot--the bank not so much) once in a great while there would be another dog at either place but not lots of dogs with stupid owners and flexi leads.

The local gas stations always had treats for dogs--the Aussie didn't get out of the truck there but the guys working would bring him a doggie treat.

It's tougher to do this with fully adult dog but all exposure helps. If you have trials or conformation shows anywhere in your vicinity--take him to them. Generally dogs at AKC (or any other entities like the AKC--ASCA etc) events are pretty well behaved and you don't find idiots with flexi's letting their dogs run up to your dogs. You are not supposed to take unentered dogs to these events but people do it all the time and if you don't make yourself and Kadin noticeable it's doubtful you'll be noticed and kicked out.

AND--when you go to the vet (specifically the vet) leave him in the truck and go in and see what goofy people and dogs on flexy leashes are in the waiting room. If there isn't anyone there--fine but tell the reception people that you are working on Kadin's tendency to get upset by othere dogs charging him and you'd like to be able to take him in and to a room and not hang out in the waiting room until he's a little better at acceptiing the presence of other dogs.

We do this all the time--we have some dogs we know are outright aggressive--there's a Rottweiler who is genuinely a bad actor--his owner knows this and calls reception when he's in the parking lot--they clear the waiting room, call him back and he comes in and goes directly to a room.

The best and easiest way to teach a dog to cool his jets really is to protect him from stuff like other dogs charging him which sends him over the top.

Don't know how much of this you can implement but just some suggestions that usually help some. I feel your pain--there are lots of people who are simply morons about the kinds of interactions their dogs have with other dogs.

Good luck--and tell Kadin I know he's a good boy at heart.

dobebug
CRDobe, ECIN and LadyDi like this.
dobebug is offline  
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to dobebug For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (02-17-2020), brw1982 (02-16-2020), Cressrb (02-15-2020), ECIN (02-15-2020), eegreen (02-15-2020), Fitzmar Dobermans (02-15-2020), KristenC (02-21-2020), LadyDi (02-15-2020), melbrod (02-15-2020), plearbear (02-15-2020), Rosemary (02-15-2020), spocksdad (02-15-2020), TNfisher (02-15-2020), yuki_cos (02-16-2020)
post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 10:54 AM
Alpha
 
TNfisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,865
Location: Middle TN
Dogs Name: Mocha
Titles: CGC
Dogs Age: DOB 3/21/2014
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit TNfisher's Gallery
Thanks: 16,135
Thanked 12,546 Times in 2,643 Posts
Images: 2
                     
Click here to find out how TNfisher became a supporter
I can't give you much advice since I've been dealing with a reactive dog of my own and we're still not where I'd like to be. But, I've tried my best to get her to a point where she's at least comfortable being out there and seeing people and dogs, vs. going ballistic like she did before. But even though she's much better, I still make sure I never put her in a position where she has no choices...if I have the slightest doubt, or she starts showing the least bit of stress or agitation, we go off trail and get distracted.
Mocha does not like people getting close to us (I'm convinced it's a protective thing with her), and she doesn't like other dogs to bark at her, come at her, or give her the stare. If they mind their manners and business, and go on their merry way, she's fine. And yep, it's usually the small yappers that give us the most trouble LOL.
IMHO, any enclosed space like the vet's office is danger...some people tend to think everyone's dog loves kids, other dogs, and wants to be touched. And I have no qualms about letting people know they need to keep their leash short, or to keep their dog or small child away from us.
ECIN and LadyDi like this.



She is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are her life, her love, her leader.
She will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of her heart. You owe it to her to be worthy of such devotion.
- Author Unknown
TNfisher is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to TNfisher For This Useful Post:
ECIN (02-15-2020), eegreen (02-15-2020), LadyDi (02-15-2020), melbrod (02-15-2020), Rosemary (02-15-2020), yuki_cos (02-16-2020)
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 12:40 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,109
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit modm's Gallery
Thanks: 10,889
Thanked 5,182 Times in 1,102 Posts
                     
May have missed it in the other posts -

But can you talk to the vet and see if they can tell folks not to use retractable leashes while at the vets? Or if you haven't maybe just discuss with vet. Is there another entrance?

When we bring ours in we go in the non-normal entrance away from the counter. Look in then go in.

When Molly was with us she would always watch another dog if walking by - if that dog made the first move then Molly would react as always.
Like you we would distract her a bit as we walked by. But as mentioned all bets off if the other dog reacted first.
LadyDi likes this.
modm is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to modm For This Useful Post:
Cressrb (02-15-2020), ECIN (02-15-2020), LadyDi (02-15-2020), melbrod (02-15-2020), TNfisher (02-15-2020), yuki_cos (02-16-2020)
post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 01:48 PM
Alpha
 
Fitzmar Dobermans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,092
Location: S. E. Pennsylvania
Dogs Name: Harvard, Jezebel, & Mabel
Titles: AKC CH & GrCh, RN, CGC & CGCA
Dogs Age: 12/20/07, 2/26/12, and 2/26/18
Gallery Pics: 13
Visit Fitzmar Dobermans's Gallery
Thanks: 4,068
Thanked 20,082 Times in 4,442 Posts
Images: 13
                     
Click here to find out how Fitzmar Dobermans became a supporter
You are getting good suggestions from others, and I really have little to add other than I really feel your pain! My Jezebel is very reactive to other dogs - she did well in obedience class and truly was ready to compete for her CD...... but the reactiveness made it just too stressful to take her to shows. The people in my class all knew that she needed a bubble space free from other dogs.
When I take her to the vet, I go in the first door, and then put her behind me, open the second door and announce that I have a dog aggressive Doberman..... the people with dogs on retractible leashes are pretty quick to reel in their dogs before I walk in with her - haha!! It helps that my vet has a very large waiting area with several alcoves.
I think the office staff at the vet enjoy when I walk in and chastise people for not keeping their dogs close and for letting them walk up to other dogs - its not the freaking dog park! They staff feel like they can't do much - but I have no problem with calling people out on their bad behavior! Just as an aside, my vet loves my dogs - including Jezebel because they are so well behaved for exams.
My dogs will all react to a single dog while on a walk... and even act protective when they see a single person. When I walk into a dog show with hundreds of people and a 1000 dogs, Harvard and Mabel are totally cool with it. Jezebel is overwhelmed by so many dogs and is just too stressed.
dobebug, ECIN and LadyDi like this.

Mary Jo Ansel
Fitzmar


AKC GRCH/UKC CH Fitzmar's Command A Minute CGC "Harvard"
Fitzmar's Victory Hop Devil RN CGC "Jezebel"
Ch Jalyn One Moment Please "Mabel"
Fitzmar Dobermans is offline  
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Fitzmar Dobermans For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (02-16-2020), dobebug (02-15-2020), ECIN (02-15-2020), eegreen (02-15-2020), KristenC (02-21-2020), LadyDi (02-15-2020), melbrod (02-15-2020), plearbear (02-15-2020), TNfisher (02-15-2020), yuki_cos (02-16-2020)
post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
Alpha
 
ECIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 6,915
Location: Indiana
Dogs Name: Kadin aka Mr. Business & Ali
Titles: Blue Ribbon's Every Day
Dogs Age: 2 & 9
Gallery Pics: 328
Visit ECIN's Gallery
Thanks: 20,473
Thanked 25,006 Times in 6,561 Posts
Images: 328
                     
Click here to find out how ECIN became a supporter
Thanks everybody for your ideas - thoughts ! It's just so dang frustrating ! I make one step forward with him then we go back 3 with a dog jacking with him !

I have tried and tried to do my best with him socializing him around other dogs - but looking back - I have hurt him more with the others help .

The only thing I have not done yet on Aunt Bugs list is to call the vets office when I pull in and let them clear out the place .

In the last training class I had him in - like I said - once he got in there - he was fine with the other dogs - they were all on a short lead and were pretty well under control . Maybe Patty is right - I just need to get him in a professional atmosphere - over time - he will get use to the other dogs and they are no treat - I hope . : )))

Mr. B should have been working on his RN last year , but I had to try and get this under control first - time for another plan and head to Anderson and see if they can help us out - I spent lots of yesterday reading the rules for the RN - and is says in there about unruly Dogs and a DQ .

Maybe its just me - wanting to peruse all this - All his Brothers and Sisters have letters in front of there names - I want to pile them on after his name : )) To me - the ones behind are just as important as the ones in front - it shows diversity in the Dobies our breeder - they can show and they can work , If I can pull this off then that would be my special thanks to my breeder for granting us the privilege they gave us in getting this special Dober we have .

We don't forget special people

Thanks again everybody !

Doc
dobebug and LadyDi like this.

Last edited by ECIN; 02-15-2020 at 02:59 PM.
ECIN is offline  
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to ECIN For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (02-17-2020), brw1982 (02-16-2020), Cressrb (02-15-2020), dobebug (02-17-2020), eegreen (02-15-2020), Fitzmar Dobermans (02-15-2020), LadyDi (02-15-2020), melbrod (02-15-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020), yuki_cos (02-16-2020)
post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 04:03 PM
Alpha
 
LadyDi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,456
Location: Florida
Dogs Name: Hoss
Titles: Proud European Doberman
Dogs Age: 3
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit LadyDi's Gallery
Thanks: 35,655
Thanked 15,423 Times in 4,673 Posts
Images: 4
                     
Click here to find out how LadyDi became a supporter
Yeah Doc.
Great advise given.
The very first training class I took the instructor drilled into his humans.....”control your dog” because if everyone controls their own dog we will have no problems today ! Each class was the same...would always start out the same way ! Real funny man and he was like a drill instructor.
Also against the rules was butt sniffing or allowing your dog to target aka stare at other dogs.
In a relaxed class most dogs will look at another dog maybe sniff the air , then look away. It’s real quick. But when you see a dog that continues to stare IMO nothing good ever comes from that, its the beginning.
So you are going to find when you are around other humans that are proficient in dog handling “MOST” not all because stupid exists everywhere......but most humans in your classes will understand this and monitor the body language of their own dogs as they move about the training center.
Our school does not permit retractables on their premises, also no butt sniffing!
But we must also acknowledge there are still a lot of humans out there that just buy a dog and thats it.....they know nothing about training. Many with the little dogs on retractables have no idea what it is like to go surfing with a Doberman !!!
So.....what do we do????
We set our dogs up for success! We go earlier to places when there is less dog traffic.
And when we see another human not paying attention to their dog ...we do an about turn and find another path!
I know........ stupid people suck ...but everytime our dogs experiences reactivity that reinforces the dogs behavior.
So we have to prevent it...some of our training includes commands such as “Look” ...to deter problems until you can get away.
Then there is always the benefit of having a high valve treat in your pocket for that emergency....something that will cause Mr. B to say screw you “I got Liver”......keep working with the exposure to other dogs though ...you can easily pick out the dog smart humans .....stay away from the others
dobebug likes this.

Hoss

Last edited by LadyDi; 02-15-2020 at 04:05 PM.
LadyDi is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to LadyDi For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (02-17-2020), dobebug (02-17-2020), ECIN (02-15-2020), Fitzmar Dobermans (02-15-2020), melbrod (02-15-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020), yuki_cos (02-16-2020)
post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 04:23 PM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 23,288
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Ori AKA Harold DogDog (Hairy Dog), RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Titles: DogDog Mouthe Extraordinaire; Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior
Dogs Age: DogDog 2 yrs?; RIP Kip 11 yrs; Capri 7 yrs; Katana 9 yrs; Caesar 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 74,625
Thanked 62,410 Times in 19,051 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
...screw you "I got Liver”

LOL
melbrod is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
ECIN (02-16-2020), LadyDi (02-16-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020), yuki_cos (02-16-2020)
post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 07:37 PM
Alpha
 
plearbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 409
Location: College Station TX
Dogs Name: Jax

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit plearbear's Gallery
Thanks: 1,852
Thanked 995 Times in 253 Posts
                     
Jax fortunately never had this problem, but Laszlo came to me at 1 year old with little to no socialization, and I do have to manage some reactivity with him.

The biggest thing with Laszlo is being very aware of where his brain is at and what he's focusing on. Because when he reacts, that's when he's already above threshold. Once we cross that line and get over threshold, it's a pain in the ass to get him back on track. But it is SO MUCH EASIER to be proactive and prevent him from getting to that state of mind in the first place. He isn't aggressive at all whatsoever, but he gets so overexcited and overstimulated that it's like his brain leaves his body and he can no longer process anything other than barking and pulling to whatever he has focused in on. He can't do any learning once his brain leaves, so we have to make sure we do all the learning BEFORE that happens

Learning how to not react involves a lot of distracting Laszlo from whatever he would react to, and rewarding basically any behavior that doesn't include barking. If I see we're about to come up on a triggering stimulus, I have to act quickly to get Laszlo's attention and keep it on me. That involves moving him - telling him to stand with his back facing the stimulus, moving him behind some kind of barrier, or just putting more distance in between it and him. Then I keep his attention by practicing some commands, and I reinforce his attention with lots of treats and praise.

You'll basically have to be ultra mindful of the environments you're putting him in to avoid setting him up for failure. Unfortunately we can't trust the general public to control their dogs, which you've experienced first hand with those cockers The more mishaps like that happen, the more that reactivity will be reinforced. It sounds to me like when he barks and growls, he thinks he is doing what he needs to do to keep himself and you safe from whatever he is threatened by. His reactivity is different than Laszlo's in that sense but I think the approach can be similar to what works for Laszlo and I too. I think if you're really consistent and manage things before they escalate, eventually he will realize that he doesn't need to react because you have the situation under control.

Like others have suggested, calling the vet ahead of time would be a great idea. Going to those classes would also be a great idea, even if it is only once a week - that will be a calm and controlled environment which is really important for him to experience!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
dobebug, ECIN and LadyDi like this.
plearbear is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to plearbear For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (02-15-2020), dobebug (02-17-2020), ECIN (02-16-2020), LadyDi (02-16-2020), melbrod (02-15-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020), yuki_cos (02-16-2020)
post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 08:45 PM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,143
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 48,516
Thanked 61,240 Times in 16,439 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Well, I am going to echo Plear...there are *always* going to be ill-mannered dogs (and their ill-mannered owners). Everywhere. You can either be angry and irritated and blame them, or you can be pro-active about it and set your dog up to succeed. I'm sorry to be blunt, Ken, but that's simply the way it is with the general public. Sure, it's "their" fault their dogs are out of control, but...you also need to be proactive in setting Mr. B. up to be successful, too. The more you let him "practice" this behavior, the more his brain sets up those pathways to be really, really strong and to be an automatic response. I say this out of an unfortunate amount of experience with my first dog. When you own a dog that has a tendency to be reactive (or aggressive, even) with other dogs, you have to learn to be on the lookout and manage the environment around them to prevent them from having those reactive outbursts as much as you possibly can...practice makes perfect, as they say, so the more they do it, the more they will do it. Does that make sense?

I hate to be the bearer of a "tough love" type of message, but it's up to you to kind of step it up here. If you know your vet's office often has dogs that are unruly, go into the office without K first to check in, and ask for them to escort you into a room immediately so you don't encounter any other dogs. Tell them he doesn't like other dogs when you check in and to make sure you can walk through reception without loose dogs. Don't bring him to stores that have a ton of dogs right now, because the environment is too unpredictable and stressful. Do the group classes instead if he can handle that where you can work when he's what we call "under threshold" - he can be at enough distance that he doesn't react to the other dogs. More controlled exposure where you know the other dogs are leashed, and unlikely to be full of crazy energy.

You might also look into private lessons with a trainer. A lot of dogs that are reactive benefit from things like parallel walking with another dog (one that is neutral and non-reactive), BAT (behavioral adjustment training), things like that.

I also still carry Direct Stop, even though both of my two are friendly. I do NOT hesitate to spray unleashed or uncontrolled dogs that are coming up close to mine. It's citronella, so not harmful, but it will stop most dogs. My dogs know I'll protect them from incoming, charging dogs, and it helps keep them relaxed.
dobebug, ECIN and LadyDi like this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E L1I L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (02-16-2020), dobebug (02-17-2020), ECIN (02-16-2020), KristenC (02-21-2020), LadyDi (02-16-2020), melbrod (02-16-2020), plearbear (02-15-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020), yuki_cos (02-16-2020)
post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 08:50 PM
Alpha
 
Beaumont67's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 11,385
Location: St. Thomas, Ontario
Dogs Name: Kelly
Titles: CD Obedience & Therapy
Dogs Age: puppy
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Beaumont67's Gallery
Thanks: 58,614
Thanked 25,549 Times in 9,377 Posts
                     
Ken

Don't panic...
- In grade8, I should of drowned swimming in center of a gravel pit...and saved myself
- severe leg cramps (after eating a 15 cent plate of fries...minutes earlier)
- I couldn't even tread water...mind over matter, I calmed myself & created one possible solution

- 20 years ago, pup AMY and Dad was attacked my 2 GSD...they tore up an old lady, 2 months later
- but I submissed the two dogs...
- via calming my frontal lobe photo, and projected confidence in being attacked
- I stood in a Karate stance, and held out my arm for attack
- projecting, how I was going to kill the first dog, with my bare hand
- now its Dad & Amy on the aggressive dog left
- and they both, stopped dead in their tracks...mind over matter
That was on a Friday, on Monday killer GSD was under garage owners desk.
- I reached under for dog, and it sniffed & nosed my finger tips / owner pulled my hand back quickly
- said, that dog will bit you...don't pet it // Larry had a good smirk

- 2 weeks ago, little Fear dog wanted to bite me in Vets office & old lady fell on her knee replacement
- so I handed Kelly off to a Vet Tech and help the injured lady & calmed her dog down
- Kelly was as calm as a cucumber, the whole time / she didn't go into red zone...because she watch her Dad, take charge

So what is all my BS about...I think KEN, your projecting some fearful moments...when you return to the Vets office.
- and Mr. B. is reading your mind...so he ramps up, based on you alone
- solid training, will never go backwards

Now understand, when a smaller dog it running uncontrolled towards you guys...KEN has to stand in front of Mr B and block the intruder...in a split second.
- DOC, get Buddha Zen face on
- play the game of offence, not defense...take charge & Lead confidently
- your dog will change & follow your vibes more...so act very positive, and take charge
- hold dobe on a very tight leash, touching your left leg...and clear your mind, when walking in
ECIN and LadyDi like this.

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

Last edited by Beaumont67; 02-15-2020 at 09:16 PM.
Beaumont67 is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Beaumont67 For This Useful Post:
ECIN (02-16-2020), LadyDi (02-16-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020), yuki_cos (02-16-2020)
post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 06:56 AM Thread Starter
Alpha
 
ECIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 6,915
Location: Indiana
Dogs Name: Kadin aka Mr. Business & Ali
Titles: Blue Ribbon's Every Day
Dogs Age: 2 & 9
Gallery Pics: 328
Visit ECIN's Gallery
Thanks: 20,473
Thanked 25,006 Times in 6,561 Posts
Images: 328
                     
Click here to find out how ECIN became a supporter
Where to start here ?

I have read all your posts , 2 times ! I agree a 100 % in what you all wrote , So I will attempt to reply to each , some way .

Kadin has always had a hair trigger about other dogs running free , He has been that way since a puppy - I took him to private classes to address this - then to a group class - the group helped him - yet he was still antsy . Where I was taking him , they also broad dogs in a large kennel . Trainer asked me to bring him early , before classes started to walk him threw the other dogs in there pins . The first time we did this , Kadin walked right threw there - Was perfect - like there was not a dog in a million miles of him . Trainer and I were talking - what changed ? We both thought that the other dogs were in there pins and posed no threat , as we walked back into the training area - one of the other dogs had got there and as we walked in - he saw it and got pretty active - the trainer had me walk him back out and then reenter and everything was fine .

We worked on the entry to class - For me to be ready and to distract him - and not to let him feed off of my nerves threw the lead like 6-7 said , this worked pretty well - I have always tried my best alone with the trainer to set him up to succeed .

To review some - I take him to say Pet Valu early in the morning when there is , most times , no other dogs and if there is - it would lnly be one other , The last 2 times we went - we were looking at a new ball , then from out of know where came a Aussie around the corner on a re tract - The owner would not pull her away from Kadin - I was already moving back and turning him away to break the tension - someway I did it .

2. Pet Valu ----------- again - walked in - everything good to go - I had a good look around for any dogs - there was a couple looking at the kitties - What I didn't see was they had a dog , laying down behind a display - then there dog jumped up and ran around the display and it was game on - lets say they grabbed there dog for dear life and I have never seen anybody get out there that quick - The manager seen the whole thing - the wife and I told her we were so sorry - she said she seen the whole thing and it was OK - the others should have had better control of there dog .

3. I take him to places he will succeed to - I have posted up out adventures on here - to the airport - boat shop , the elevator , John Deere , CaseIH , the Bunge bean plant - He loves the attention he receives -

4. The Vets office - I need to draw a lay out of the office for you to understand the lay out better - but as you walk in the check in is to the right of the desk , that area is a blind spot - you can not see anything in that area - trust me - I look to that area before we walk in - now this is my fault - I have never called them to check out the surroundings - I will from know on

5. The vet techs do , do a good job of getting us in the room quick - sometimes around the back side of the reception room - They all know him .

6. Kadin has been socialized out the rea rend - every since he was old enough - But like I said - it's hard to make head way .

7. 6-7 - I have got between Ali and another dog - it was a pit bull from a bad owner , as he was hitting his pit in the waiting room - trying his best to show everybody he was a badazz - These were getting out of control and I That pit was going to die if he came after Ali and I - I got her into a exam room and shut the door - I was beyond pizzed and told the gal they should throw that guy out ! Vet came in and was upset about all that had happened - They took us out the back door when we left and then sent us the bill in the mail . I hope that never happens again !

8. I have never worked so hard with a dog to succeed - but failing - Its the unknown that I can't see - We are prepared - I scope out everything , then bam - from out of the blue - from around a corner , behind a display it happens . I give up on taking him out anymore as its a sure fail in public . I am going to take him to the classes in a controlled environment .

Now the funny part - when we were in the group class - we had to preform in front of the others - to pass the class - Kadin acted as there was no dogs around - was so focused , so there is hope - But he's not a public dog with other dogs - they are a threat to him and I .

One other thing MC , we did use one of the trainers dogs as a neutral dog - her and I would take them on walks together - they got alone fine = controlled environment and control I guess .

Thanks everybody ! Love the inputs !

Doc

Last edited by ECIN; 02-16-2020 at 07:26 AM.
ECIN is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to ECIN For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (02-16-2020), brw1982 (02-16-2020), MeadowCat (02-16-2020), melbrod (02-16-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020), yuki_cos (02-16-2020)
post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 07:32 AM
Alpha
 
yuki_cos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 264
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Athena (husky), Kenai (Malamute/husky mix), and Artemisia (coming 2020)
Dogs Age: Athena (7 yr old), Kenai (4 yr old)
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit yuki_cos's Gallery
Thanks: 1,339
Thanked 548 Times in 243 Posts
                     
I too have a reactive dog and I couldn't help but go "yup.....yup...." reading your post.

Not a Doberman but my male malamute/husky mix, Kenai, is the reactive one out of the three (still counting the adopted puppy-son!). His previous "owners" (I have other names I use that probably shouldn't be repeated in a public forum) thought it was a great idea to use him as a bait dog and now, he's very iffy around certain breeds. I can't fault him for it but I had worked with him for such a long time to be able to redirect his focus. He wears an e-collar whenever we are out but if I feel like there might be a situation, I press the tone button to move his focus back to me. That way, I don't make any movements or loud noises that would possibly trigger him to think there was something wrong with me and therefore had to protect momma. It also helps having his siblings, Athena and Tahoe, or even his best friend Ghost because somehow they know if Kenai is not going to have a good time so they will all start tugging on his neck in a playful manner to move him. I don't know how they all figured that one out but I am incredibly grateful for that.

Luckily, our vet is awesome and will not allow the retractable leashes in the waiting room. If someone comes in with one, one of the techs will immediately go to that person with one of their leashes and ask for the person to use their leash instead. But as stated earlier, stupid is everywhere. I do remember a time that some person thought her dog would be fine and ignored the tech........lo and behold that dog immediately got into a dog's face and of course, that dog happened to be none other than Kenai. I had pulled him back by his hind legs but not before this dog bit him on the nose and Kenai had gone into full on Jason Voorhees mode. She had the nerve to call my dog aggressive but luckily, there was a room full of witnesses as well as two of the three vets and four of the techs.

I haven't seen her since then!
ECIN likes this.

When someone you love walks in through the door, even if it happens five times a day, go totally insane with joy - David Dudley
yuki_cos is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to yuki_cos For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (02-16-2020), dobebug (02-17-2020), ECIN (02-16-2020), melbrod (02-16-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020)
post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 08:08 AM
Alpha
 
Beaumont67's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 11,385
Location: St. Thomas, Ontario
Dogs Name: Kelly
Titles: CD Obedience & Therapy
Dogs Age: puppy
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Beaumont67's Gallery
Thanks: 58,614
Thanked 25,549 Times in 9,377 Posts
                     
Good read yuki_cos ^^

Ken - off-leash foundation, practiced around the farm...is critical.
- Kelly is off-leash, 99.99% of time
- we can even have Kelly, switch vehicles in a city parking lot / only controlled by my voice
- and if a skunk is under the bird feeder, in the dark of night...on the front lawn, 25 feet out
- I can yell one command, and she aborts chase immediately
(last time she was flying in the air, off the end of the porch...when her paws hit the ground, she stopped dead in her tracks / if I yell in a scream, she will obey and not loose any confidence // knowing its for her own safety)
- or when she smells a raccoon or bunny or cat, in the field (beside the house)
- I have used calming techniques on her, to let dad handle it / after I command her
- I praise here for protecting family & go into neck scratch's or inside ear rubs
- so I use everyday situations, of threat...to desensitize her and learn to trust Dad's instincts

The point I'm trying to make is - unless a dog can be called off its prey, while off leash.
- fixing it, will be an uphill battle
- leash foundation, never holds a candle to off-leash (and reliable proofed)
- control comes, from mastering the later together
ECIN, LadyDi and pamlocke like this.

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

Last edited by Beaumont67; 02-16-2020 at 08:24 AM.
Beaumont67 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Beaumont67 For This Useful Post:
ECIN (02-16-2020), LadyDi (02-16-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020)
post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
Alpha
 
ECIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 6,915
Location: Indiana
Dogs Name: Kadin aka Mr. Business & Ali
Titles: Blue Ribbon's Every Day
Dogs Age: 2 & 9
Gallery Pics: 328
Visit ECIN's Gallery
Thanks: 20,473
Thanked 25,006 Times in 6,561 Posts
Images: 328
                     
Click here to find out how ECIN became a supporter
Totally Agree with yeah 6-7 ! That is the next project here = off leash

Thanks ole Buddy
LadyDi likes this.
ECIN is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ECIN For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (02-16-2020), LadyDi (02-16-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020)
post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 08:22 AM
Alpha
 
Beaumont67's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 11,385
Location: St. Thomas, Ontario
Dogs Name: Kelly
Titles: CD Obedience & Therapy
Dogs Age: puppy
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Beaumont67's Gallery
Thanks: 58,614
Thanked 25,549 Times in 9,377 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECIN View Post
Totally Agree with yeah 6-7 ! That is the next project here = off leash

Thanks ole Buddy
Great Ken - but off-leash is not a project / its a lifestyle.
- as long as Dobe has no chance of getting hit, on the Hwy...Just Do It !!
- so much to learn & grow together, once the leach is ditched
- its only a project if you make it a project // instead, have Fun

Exactly why I start training off-leash potty training, 2 of 3 pups @ 9 weeks old.
- Kelly was the exception, all full of piss & vinegar as a pup / aggressive with hackles up
- but I still got her reliable, and I learned a ton more self-training a real difficult one
- anyone can train an easy dog, but you just don't learn as much

Depending on the pup, some range in Low - Medium - High Prey drive.
- High Prey comes with an independent nature // Low Prey comes with a willingness to please Master
- exactly why former Amy was trained formal OB, starting at 4.5 months young
- all Off-leash, 2 months later we street walked through city down down (no Leash)
- Training is not fixed in stone, some dogs do better given a ton more freedoms & challenges // trained in reverse
^^ Mr. Business is ready Dad.
LadyDi likes this.

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

Last edited by Beaumont67; 02-16-2020 at 08:46 AM.
Beaumont67 is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Beaumont67 For This Useful Post:
dobebug (02-17-2020), ECIN (02-17-2020), LadyDi (02-16-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020)
post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 09:02 AM
Dobes Dobles +1
 
spocksdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,920
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Dogs Name: Sunking's Spock- Dobe/ Eva -HADR Rescue Dobe/ Lanah- Mini Mutt/ RIP-Lillah- ChiTerrierX
Titles: Spock CGC, PP Therapy Dog, Eva PP Therapy Dog
Dogs Age: 9/9/5
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit spocksdad's Gallery
Thanks: 13,523
Thanked 12,952 Times in 2,708 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how spocksdad became a supporter
Our Spock is somewhat dog reactive, like Kadin. On walks he will start getting huffy when approaching a known property with a "perceived threat" of a yappy dog behind a fence. I just divert across the street and walk on other side. Eva could care less if a roaring lion is behind fence... Whenever on walks, we try to stop and talk with others that have well behaved dogs- at a distance across street with strange dogs or move in closer with known dogs.

Have had encountered both loose & leashed dogs on walks, acting aggressive toward both Spock and Eva. Dobermans appear to be the "Rodney Dangerfields" of the dog world- "They don't get no respect" even from little bitty yappy dogs. (Or maybe they're just crazy?) I don't want these dogs even getting close to Spocko.

So, if redirecting, your best "Buddha Zen" face and Citronella spray doesn't work, you can resort to what I carry & have used many times successfully- Diablo II Stun Flashlight:

https://amazon.com/Guard-Dog-Securit.../dp/B07RD8CCGM

The noise alone has worked everytime for me, scaring away aggresive, approaching dogs. If they do get up close, you can give a non-lethal stun.


At home, on rare occasions to quell our pack, I use the EcoBlast refillable air horn (w/tire pump to 80psi). This is highly effective for redirecting dogs that get ramped up due to fence fighting, possum hunting or high energy Dobe play wrestling. Now, just saying "HORN!" or picking it up is enough to get both Spock and Eva's attention, which stops whatever undesirable behavior they are conducting. (It's like having a portable, falling baby gate...) A smaller version of this EcoBlast would be ideal for taking on walks for scaring away rogue dogs.

https://amazon.com/Seasense-Ecoblast.../dp/B003QKO0A2

On group therapy dog visits (college de-stress events), handlers keep dogs at least 10 ft. away from other dog teams, especially large dominant breed dogs. (Pet Partner's handlers guide advises "three animal lengths apart") Teams are there to interact with clients, not other animals. Spock spent 2-hrs full hours at recent college event with another a large male GSD and female Golden (and 2 other littles) in same lobby, on nearby couches, with not a wimper, whine or any huffing the whole time.

Dog training classes, in large venues, are great for teaching dogs to be tolerant of others and focusing on training, and not acting like idiots. When we do happen to pass idiot dogs on walks, we just keep walking and don't let dogs zone in on each other, which I also tell the other handler/walker to do, as well.

Even female dogs will zone in on each other sometimes. I recently took Eva to a school district volunteer awards ceremony for therapy reading work. I knew other unknown dogs would be present, hence no Spock. After Eva and I received our award from school super, another school therapy dog group went up. The female Great Pyrenees with that group zoned in on Eva something fierce! She pulled her handler off the platform (seen in pic below) I successfully redirected Eva with treats when this happened, to break the "stink-eye" stare.


Great Pyr. Zoned in On Eva, Pulling Handler!
(sitting with me far off to right)

ECIN likes this.


Ten Doberman Rules
Poke Everything.
It's New? Bark At It.
Moves? Chase It.
Doesn't Move? Smell It.
Liquid? Spill and Dribble It.
Treat or Food? Wolf It Down.
Not Food? Chew It Slowly, Be Quiet & Hide From Human.
A Toy? Shred & Destroy It.
Stuffed? De-Stuff It.
Bites You Back? Wrestle It!

Last edited by spocksdad; 02-16-2020 at 09:16 AM.
spocksdad is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to spocksdad For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (02-16-2020), ECIN (02-16-2020), LadyDi (02-18-2020), MeadowCat (02-16-2020), melbrod (02-16-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020)
post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 09:03 AM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,143
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 48,516
Thanked 61,240 Times in 16,439 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECIN View Post
Where to start here ?

I have read all your posts , 2 times ! I agree a 100 % in what you all wrote , So I will attempt to reply to each , some way .

Kadin has always had a hair trigger about other dogs running free , He has been that way since a puppy - I took him to private classes to address this - then to a group class - the group helped him - yet he was still antsy . Where I was taking him , they also broad dogs in a large kennel . Trainer asked me to bring him early , before classes started to walk him threw the other dogs in there pins . The first time we did this , Kadin walked right threw there - Was perfect - like there was not a dog in a million miles of him . Trainer and I were talking - what changed ? We both thought that the other dogs were in there pins and posed no threat , as we walked back into the training area - one of the other dogs had got there and as we walked in - he saw it and got pretty active - the trainer had me walk him back out and then reenter and everything was fine .

We worked on the entry to class - For me to be ready and to distract him - and not to let him feed off of my nerves threw the lead like 6-7 said , this worked pretty well - I have always tried my best alone with the trainer to set him up to succeed .

To review some - I take him to say Pet Valu early in the morning when there is , most times , no other dogs and if there is - it would lnly be one other , The last 2 times we went - we were looking at a new ball , then from out of know where came a Aussie around the corner on a re tract - The owner would not pull her away from Kadin - I was already moving back and turning him away to break the tension - someway I did it .

2. Pet Valu ----------- again - walked in - everything good to go - I had a good look around for any dogs - there was a couple looking at the kitties - What I didn't see was they had a dog , laying down behind a display - then there dog jumped up and ran around the display and it was game on - lets say they grabbed there dog for dear life and I have never seen anybody get out there that quick - The manager seen the whole thing - the wife and I told her we were so sorry - she said she seen the whole thing and it was OK - the others should have had better control of there dog .

3. I take him to places he will succeed to - I have posted up out adventures on here - to the airport - boat shop , the elevator , John Deere , CaseIH , the Bunge bean plant - He loves the attention he receives -

4. The Vets office - I need to draw a lay out of the office for you to understand the lay out better - but as you walk in the check in is to the right of the desk , that area is a blind spot - you can not see anything in that area - trust me - I look to that area before we walk in - now this is my fault - I have never called them to check out the surroundings - I will from know on

5. The vet techs do , do a good job of getting us in the room quick - sometimes around the back side of the reception room - They all know him .

6. Kadin has been socialized out the rea rend - every since he was old enough - But like I said - it's hard to make head way .

7. 6-7 - I have got between Ali and another dog - it was a pit bull from a bad owner , as he was hitting his pit in the waiting room - trying his best to show everybody he was a badazz - These were getting out of control and I That pit was going to die if he came after Ali and I - I got her into a exam room and shut the door - I was beyond pizzed and told the gal they should throw that guy out ! Vet came in and was upset about all that had happened - They took us out the back door when we left and then sent us the bill in the mail . I hope that never happens again !

8. I have never worked so hard with a dog to succeed - but failing - Its the unknown that I can't see - We are prepared - I scope out everything , then bam - from out of the blue - from around a corner , behind a display it happens . I give up on taking him out anymore as its a sure fail in public . I am going to take him to the classes in a controlled environment .

Now the funny part - when we were in the group class - we had to preform in front of the others - to pass the class - Kadin acted as there was no dogs around - was so focused , so there is hope - But he's not a public dog with other dogs - they are a threat to him and I .

One other thing MC , we did use one of the trainers dogs as a neutral dog - her and I would take them on walks together - they got alone fine = controlled environment and control I guess .

Thanks everybody ! Love the inputs !

Doc
You are working hard, and I totally hear you on the frustration. I hate retractable leashes (and I also hate off-leash dogs - we encounter those in our neighborhood way too often)!

It sounds like you've been doing everything from an early age. And you already know some dogs simply don't like other dogs, and it's a matter of working on the "you simply need to ignore them, B!" mentality." It honestly sounds like he does pretty well with dogs that are just "there" and not charging him, right? It's just the dogs charging up in his face? While you DO want to work on that, on the other hand...you can't really blame him for reacting. It's rude behavior from the other dogs. I'm understanding more from your second post now that he's ignoring other dogs when they are neutral and is only reactive when he's getting charged? Is that right? For me, that kind of changes things. It's still something I would want to work on, but it's FAR more understandable.

Honestly, I think your best bet here is to start carrying Direct Stop, using it really freely, and train B that you'll always step in front of him so he doesn't need to react. That you'll handle it. The more consistent you can be, the more he'll start to realize that there isn't going to be an "encounter" - the dog isn't going to ever reach him. That should start to lower his stress level. You can actually buy a couple of canisters of Direct Stop and start practicing with B - it's almost a "dance" of getting in front of him with him staying behind you, spraying the canister, and a super deep voice "NO! BACK!" to the other dog. I don't yell at the other owner, but I'd say something like, "my dog isn't friendly" or, what works for some of my friends even better is "MY DOG IS CONTAGIOUS!" What you really want is them hustling to get their dog away from yours as fast as possible. I've actually sprayed a yorkie that was coming at Richter. Now, was it likely that yorkie would hurt Richter? Not terribly, but...it was off-leash, he was on-leash, we were minding our own business walking down the street. I sprayed him. Twice. The owner was kind of shocked. I didn't apologize. Keep your darn dog on-leash!

Edited to add - great advice from spocksdad above, too! Redirecting with treats is a go-to...always always carry a huge amount of treats with you. You can use them to redirect B, and you can also throw that at oncoming dogs...that can often work as a distraction, too!
dobebug and ECIN like this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E L1I L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall

Last edited by MeadowCat; 02-16-2020 at 09:07 AM.
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
brw1982 (02-16-2020), dobebug (02-17-2020), ECIN (02-16-2020), LadyDi (02-18-2020), melbrod (02-16-2020), plearbear (02-16-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020)
post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 09:47 AM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,143
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 48,516
Thanked 61,240 Times in 16,439 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Ken -

Dr. Ian Dunbar has a free seminar on dog-dog reactivity, if you can watch it before midnight PST today. Dr. Dunbar is a very well respected dog trainer/behaviorist.

https://www.dunbaracademy.com/pages/...2F_v6EUEyeWLCc
ECIN likes this.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT NW1 L1C L1V L1E L1I L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
ECIN (02-16-2020), LadyDi (02-18-2020), melbrod (02-16-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020)
post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
Alpha
 
ECIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 6,915
Location: Indiana
Dogs Name: Kadin aka Mr. Business & Ali
Titles: Blue Ribbon's Every Day
Dogs Age: 2 & 9
Gallery Pics: 328
Visit ECIN's Gallery
Thanks: 20,473
Thanked 25,006 Times in 6,561 Posts
Images: 328
                     
Click here to find out how ECIN became a supporter
It honestly sounds like he does pretty well with dogs that are just "there" and not charging him, right? It's just the dogs charging up in his face?

Yes that right MC - As he has got older - he has got worse at reacting - mainly because when we do go to a dog public place - something happens and he's super on guard for it to happen

While you DO want to work on that, on the other hand...you can't really blame him for reacting. It's rude behavior from the other dogs. I'm understanding more from your second post now that he's ignoring other dogs when they are neutral and is only reactive when he's getting charged? Is that right?

Yes again - in the classes he was ok after a few minutes - then like I said - one runs , charges - it screws up our whole day - I hurting him more than helping - This will take time on my part to try and help it out - The RN classes I think will be a good start - in controlled area .


For me, that kind of changes things. It's still something I would want to work on, but it's FAR more understandable.

Thanks
ECIN is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to ECIN For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (02-16-2020), brw1982 (02-16-2020), dobebug (02-17-2020), LadyDi (02-18-2020), MeadowCat (02-16-2020), melbrod (02-16-2020), plearbear (02-16-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020)
post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 10:05 AM
Alpha
 
plearbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 409
Location: College Station TX
Dogs Name: Jax

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit plearbear's Gallery
Thanks: 1,852
Thanked 995 Times in 253 Posts
                     
Echoing @MeadowCat , if he only reacts to dogs charging him but is fine with calm non-approaching dogs or dogs behind a barrier, that does sound less severe and a lot more understandable. It'll be all about taking initiative and being proactive to manage the situation before it escalates. With a few changes to your routine, that should be very doable

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
dobebug, Beaumont67 and ECIN like this.
plearbear is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to plearbear For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (02-16-2020), brw1982 (02-16-2020), dobebug (02-17-2020), ECIN (02-16-2020), LadyDi (02-18-2020), MeadowCat (02-16-2020), melbrod (02-16-2020)
post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 01:14 PM
joie de vivre
 
brw1982's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 11,089
Location: Missouri
Dogs Name: Cypress (Dobe) & Dempsey (Rat Terrier)
Dogs Age: 05.08.19 & 11.04.14
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit brw1982's Gallery
Thanks: 50,980
Thanked 31,658 Times in 8,800 Posts
Images: 9
                     
I whole-heartedly agree with what others have already said. Especially since it sounds like he's reacting to other dogs being @ssholes, rather than instigating problems himself.

As a general rule, I don't take my dogs to (public) places or events with high dog-traffic apart from training and shows. I actually prefer that my dogs don't socialize with strange dogs because strange dogs with owners I don't know are simply too unpredictable. When we're working on exposure and proofing behaviors, we head to places like hardware stores, banks, automotive stores, festivals / fairs (outdoors with plenty of space to get out of crowds as needed) - i.e., places that are dog-friendly but not dog-oriented. I mostly address exposing and proofing my dogs around other dogs in controlled, fairly predictable environments like training & shows, and friends/family members dogs who I know very well and trust.

I also do exactly what dobebug suggests - I take my dogs, even the ones not entered, to shows and trials with me. As long as we don't cause any problems, no one says anything. And pretty much every one I know also does this.

If my vet's office didn't do a great job of preventing problems, then I would do exactly what others have suggested. I'd leave my dog in the car and go in alone to manage the situation before bringing them in.

I would also say, if the training facility is close enough for you to go a few nights / days per week, you might want to see if it would be alright to bring him just for the additional exposure, outside the ring, while other classes are in session. That way he's getting more exposure to the controlled environment and you can focus specifically on him just observing his environment and calm & relaxed behaviors.

You could even start working calm behaviors at home with a mat and bring it with you to observe other classes (and eventually shows), to extrapolate the idea of being calm anywhere the mat is.

A mat is such an easy tool to roll up and take anywhere and it can really help accelerate their understanding of being able to remain calm in new environments. Then, once he's able to really relax outside the ring, I imagine you'll be fine in the ring because, in rally, he should be the only dog in the ring. So he'll have the space he prefers from other dogs in order to work.
dobebug and ECIN like this.



Old Drum's Crimson Crisp CGC, "Fiona" 04-21-2009 - 01-15-2018
Old Drum's Fiery Rumors of Taliesin CGC LC-10D, "Tali" 05-09-2008 - 08-19-2018



Sirai's Novel Weapon, AKC S.T.A.R. puppy, "Cypress" 05-08-2019 -
AKC/UKC CH Bur-way's Unscripted, CA, "Dempsey" (Rat Terrier) 11-04-2014 -

Last edited by brw1982; 02-16-2020 at 01:16 PM.
brw1982 is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to brw1982 For This Useful Post:
dobebug (02-17-2020), ECIN (02-16-2020), LadyDi (02-16-2020), MeadowCat (02-16-2020), melbrod (02-16-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020)
post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 03:25 PM
Alpha
 
Beaumont67's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 11,385
Location: St. Thomas, Ontario
Dogs Name: Kelly
Titles: CD Obedience & Therapy
Dogs Age: puppy
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Beaumont67's Gallery
Thanks: 58,614
Thanked 25,549 Times in 9,377 Posts
                     
While my message may not be overly liked &/or want to hear...
- I wouldn't say it if I didn't care

Don't be a Helicopter Dog parent...
- "because you can't fix, what you can't see"...this is the real root problem
- going places, are not meant to cover ones Dobe in bubble-wrap...it doesn't work in our breed

Once our city shut down several blocks, for a car show & vendor food...with a few bands playing.
- tons of people, and some with dogs on leash
- should I have taken Kelly...NO, based on her triggered red zone
- but she was on leash, and pulled into Dads's side, as we entered
- she was perfect, and for the most part...had to take her clue from me, too much to take in
- and she touched a few smaller dog noses, in a friendly greet...I was so proud of her

While she Loves to chase a feral cat here off-leash (once every few years) / take her to the Vets, and she pretty much ignores them all...as they free roam close by.
- she has had some dogs, pull on a leash to greet her...she gives them little mind
- she is reading me, and knows the expectations...I demand, from her @ Vets
^^ All the Vet Techs always compliment me, how perfect Kelly was.

Training is all about the psychology, more than anything...its the dog language, they understand.
- phoning the Vet office, to clear the room...is not dog training
- it's avoidance, and a band-aide solution is still a band-aide @ best...very unpredictable

And I don't go to dog parks ever, never did with any of my dogs.
- socialization is 100x more about introducing many people & places...and only a handful of friendly dogs, is enough

People use to ask me, how long would it take to train my dog...as good as Amy.
- I would joke with them...besides telling them, their dog would have to live with me LOL
- "hard to say, but easier to train the dog
...now the owner, that's the hard part
...if I knew how to do that part easily, I'd be rich"
LadyDi likes this.

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

Last edited by Beaumont67; 02-16-2020 at 03:41 PM.
Beaumont67 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Beaumont67 For This Useful Post:
dobebug (02-17-2020), ECIN (02-17-2020), LadyDi (02-16-2020)
post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 03:41 PM
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 23,288
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Ori AKA Harold DogDog (Hairy Dog), RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Titles: DogDog Mouthe Extraordinaire; Kip Mr. Behavior; Capri Mis-Behavior
Dogs Age: DogDog 2 yrs?; RIP Kip 11 yrs; Capri 7 yrs; Katana 9 yrs; Caesar 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 74,625
Thanked 62,410 Times in 19,051 Posts
Images: 6
                     
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
Well, no, B67.

Or at least, yes, yes...give them as much exposure as you can and under as many situations as you can...but far enough away that your dog doesn't react. Do attention training so you can get your dog to focus on you when you ask him to, and work your way closer to other dogs.

But purposely going into a situation with a reactive dog, where you know there WILL be unruly dogs and badly behaved (stupid) owners, and where you don't have many alternatives to get to a better distance with your dog, no....
dobebug and ECIN like this.

Last edited by melbrod; 02-16-2020 at 04:13 PM.
melbrod is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (02-16-2020), dobebug (02-17-2020), ECIN (02-16-2020), LadyDi (02-16-2020), MeadowCat (02-16-2020), TNfisher (02-16-2020)
post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 05:53 PM
Alpha
 
TNfisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,865
Location: Middle TN
Dogs Name: Mocha
Titles: CGC
Dogs Age: DOB 3/21/2014
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit TNfisher's Gallery
Thanks: 16,135
Thanked 12,546 Times in 2,643 Posts
Images: 2
                     
Click here to find out how TNfisher became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
Well, no, B67.

Or at least, yes, yes...give them as much exposure as you can and under as many situations as you can...but far enough away that your dog doesn't react. Do attention training so you can get your dog to focus on you when you ask him to, and work your way closer to other dogs.

But purposely going into a situation with a reactive dog, where you know there WILL be unruly dogs and badly behaved (stupid) owners, and where you don't have many alternatives to get to a better distance with your dog, no....
I usually don't comment on any of the behavioral threads because I have almost 0 experience, especially compared to some of the folks here, who've had this breed for 50+ years.

I worked with my girl for about 2 years, to get her from a totally reactive dog (barking and lunging whenever she saw a stranger or another dog, basically going ballistic) to where we are now, which is still far from perfect, but at least I can take her to the park, and we can both get a nice walk in, without any stress. I wish we had a trained, certified, behaviorist close by, because I would have paid whatever they charged, to get better results.

I did get some great advice from folks here on the forum...and one of the first things I learned to do was to keep Mocha as far away from any situation that could possibly set her off. So we started out at a huge park down by the river, where people go to walk, jog, walk their dogs etc...and I sat on a bench, far away from everything and everyone, and just let Mocha watch from a distance. And over time, we moved to a closer bench. And then a closer bench till we got to the point where Mocha was ok with seeing people and dogs at a *relatively* close distance. Whenever she started acting even the slightest bit agitated, we moved back to a bench farther away again. Baby steps. Then after what seemed like ages, I started walking her on some of the side paths which ran close to the main path most people use. Then, I started taking her on weekdays, when I knew there wouldn't be too many people, and started walking her on the main path...and again, if she started showing the slighted bit of agitation or stress, we would back off, go off trail, distract, and praise when she sat there looking at me vs. paying attention to whatever or whoever was passing by.

At that point I started taking her to the park where we hike now, but only very early in the morning or on weekdays, and with a prong collar (which truly did help...I never used corrections and she learned real fast that lunging would feel uncomfortable). And over time, we got to where we are now. She's off the prong collar now, and she does still go off on select dogs and some people, but only if they get too close or start talking to us, and in the dog's cases, if they stare at her, or bark first. Knowing how she is or can be, I would never take her into any situation where I'd be setting her up to fail and that includes crowded places, dog parks (you couldn't pay me a billion bucks), or anyplace where she could possibly be surprised by someone or a dog suddenly coming around a corner. It's not worth it to me to possibly undo all we've accomplished and it wouldn't prove anything to me or anyone else. Like it was said above, some dogs are just the way they are...they don't like everyone and every dog they see and if that's the way she is, then that's fine with me and I accept that. And, I have to say she doesn't have a mean bone in her body. When I take her to the vet, she is the sweetest girl you'll ever meet, and that also goes for strangers coming to the house. She raises hell when they come to the door but the second she sees we're ok with the person, it's all about the snuggles and head rubs.
dobebug and ECIN like this.



She is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are her life, her love, her leader.
She will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of her heart. You owe it to her to be worthy of such devotion.
- Author Unknown
TNfisher is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to TNfisher For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (02-16-2020), ECIN (02-17-2020), LadyDi (02-16-2020), MeadowCat (02-16-2020), melbrod (02-16-2020), spocksdad (02-19-2020)
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome