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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-30-2019, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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OB training Question

I have had this problem with Mr. B. Since day one in his training , the problem is when I put him in a sit - stay and then walk off , turn around , maybe 20 feet from him and give him the command to come - with a sit right in front of me . He will pick up the lead first , then come to me and sit . I have tried to just add leads together and then when I give him the command , I keep the leads tight , so he will not grab it , that worked great till I try it again with just dropping the lead and walking off . He has to pick it up and then , really it's more like he's handing it to me . We worked on this yesterday and still the same thing .

So my Dober Pro's out there , How do I break him of having to pick it up first before he comes .

We are working on the Beginner Rally , So if he did that in the ring , would they take points off ? Really , it's sort of cute as here he comes with lead in mouth and then hands it off

Thanks
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-30-2019, 12:03 PM
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Nothing helpful to add but that is adorable.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-30-2019, 02:15 PM
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Cute.

It's not something you would have to worry about in a trial, though, since there aren't any recalls in the Novice level of Rally, although there are some signs where you have him sit while you walk around him. You won't encounter a recall or send to jump exercise until you get to the top level classes in AKC, ASCA, and WCRL, and those are off lead, anyway.

In Obedience, all recalls are done off lead, even in Beginner Novice, so again not an issue in a trial.

Does he have to be on a line for training recalls? Can you use a short tab handle?
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-30-2019, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Rosemary for your reply - I have been working on all aspects of the OB - Your right about beginner - I forgot that - yet it's just something I have been working on to fix - We had a training session a little bite ago - same thing on recall but this time ????? The little stinker took off running with it like it was his prize - I can see lots more work to be done here .
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-30-2019, 02:41 PM
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Its hard to fix a problem, 20 feet away...they see Dads distance, putting you at a
screw-U disadvantage.
- like when I'm driving wife's RAV4 through city, & Kelly gives someone in a vehicle or
a pedestrian on the side walk a quick stink eye...that turns into all out barking from the back seat

My suggestion, you need to start training off-leash more, and finish up the secession...with Mr. Business carrying the leash, with his mouth.
- he gets the prize, at the end
- did this with Amy, on our street walking...a block from home, she carried the leather
- so with a leash on, a quick NO to disrupt...the head move to the leash
- voice correction, a millisecond voice correction
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------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-30-2019, 03:08 PM
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I've been told only to vary one thing at a time when training a stay...length of stay, how far away you go from the dog and where you are training (in-house, backyard, at the zoo) Not that breaking stays is the specific problem you're working with, but there might be a little factor here?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ECIN View Post
We had a training session a little bite ago....I can see lots more work to be done here .
Well, yeah, if he's biting you, even if they are tiny nips, you probably do need to work with him some more



And don't set him up to fail by training from too far away or even off leash before he's ready. His recall needs to be practically automatic, so that he's coming to you without even thinking about it when you call him. If he finds out he can run away because he's off leash, and starts making that a habit, you'll have a lot harder time fixing it.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-30-2019, 03:22 PM
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I too, think that is just too adorable!

"Lots of people talk to animals...Not very many listen, though...That's the problem. " ~ The Tao of Pooh
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-30-2019, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECIN View Post
, I keep the leads tight , so he will not grab it , that worked great till I try it again with just dropping the lead and walking off . He has to pick it up and then , really it's more like he's handing it to me . We worked on this yesterday and still the same thing .
About keeping the leash tight when they are on a sit or down stay--I was actually taught that as a way of hardening a dog's stay. Once they have a good idea what they are supposed to be doing, you tell them to stay, stand out in front of them (say at about 6 feet at first), and start a gentle steady tug (no jerking on the leash). Chances are your dog will actually lean back a bit against the leash pressure. You can increase the force and change the tug direction a little as they figure out that they are still supposed to sit there until you actually release them.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-30-2019, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
About keeping the leash tight when they are on a sit or down stay--I was actually taught that as a way of hardening a dog's stay. Once they have a good idea what they are supposed to be doing, you tell them to stay, stand out in front of them (say at about 6 feet at first), and start a gentle steady tug (no jerking on the leash). Chances are your dog will actually lean back a bit against the leash pressure. You can increase the force and change the tug direction a little as they figure out that they are still supposed to sit there until you actually release them.

KEN - I was taught one summer in 1978 (via a master OB trainer, top confirmation Judge and show breeder), with our first Tanya...proofing the STAY is critical, for a solid Foundation.
And I have modified this to my liking, injecting Beaumont signs&tricks to test reliability.

- command dog to SIT, on your LEFT SIDE
- remember KEN, giving the STAY command...you lead off with your RIGHT FOOT
- because if you walk away with your LEFT FOOT, that's the foot closest to Mr. B. eyes & it indicates he should HEAL with you...in silent training, I also test with

- before I walk from my dog, in a STAY command / I have given my dog a 2 finger flick, in front of dogs eyes-brows...I taught Amy this sing language, in voice training...works wanders
- now when you step away, do 3-4 walks around dog...holding your 2 fingers sideways, in front of your chest
- this sends a clear visual message, Dog must stay seated
- now return to heal position

- HEAL a few feet forward & repeat above
- after many repetitions, start expanding your 360 degree walk...around dog
- soon you can be 10 feet away, and occasionally STOP in your tracks...with silent fingers, still giving the STAY command
- also a STAY of 3 minutes, goes to 5 minutes, to 10, to 15 to 20 minutes

I use the silent fingers, when Kelly follows me to the busy HWY...taking out garbage bags.
- they watch those 2 index fingers with Hawk Eyes...and the message, is gained for Life

- now your ready for the COME routine, as outlined by MEL...using a Leash.

PS - once a dog gets the general STAY command, on a Leash...I swiftly go Off-Leash...and proof with fingers, and circle walks around dog.
- a dogs training, ramps up much quicker...given more responsibility, to follow

Just like in the competitive Golf swing, you fix or correct....one problem at a time / until the memory muscle makes the positive change, the new habit = New Success.
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------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-31-2019, 05:43 PM
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Too funny! You need to get a video of that!

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-03-2020, 07:51 PM
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Kenny,

I keep forgetting this question of yours.

First of all re-read Rosemary's post about not being required to leave the leash on the dog while calling or sending him. And re-read Mel's stuff about training dogs not to break sits or downs by using the leash to put pressure on them until they know that if sit or down is followed by STAY the don't move even for a direct pull.

I teach my dogs at first to learn to continue to sit or down while I have them on leash (or and to stand and stay the same way)--I give them the command plus STAY and walk around them. I do this until I can take the leash off and carry it draped around my neck until they are rock solid with me walking around them while they sit, down of stand.

When they can do that I start to add distance--I don't recall until I can walk at least 20 feet away--stand they for a a minute and walk back to them and and walk around them into heel position.

Then I go back to having them do a sit stay (or down or stand stay) where I walk away for two or three feet and call them to me and giving the sit command when they are directly in from of me. Wash and repeat until you can get 20 feet away and get a perfect recall with a sit in front of you.

At that point I train left and right side return to heel (and I use two different command for that. For a return to heel to the left the command is "HEEL" for a return to heel to the right I use the command AROUND).

After that I usually can put it all together and get perfect recall. And when starting the recall at every point I keep the dog on a six foot leash until I never have to even twitch the leash to get them to come--then I very slowly increase the distance when they are off leash.

I have to go feed the animals--I have a cat picking at my pant leg.

Do you think this will help--basically it just means that while you are training you are never leaving him with a dragging leash for him to pick up--it'll either be in your hand or around your neck.

But it is cute, you should get some pictures of him picking it up to bring himself and the leash to you.

ABTLH
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-04-2020, 07:10 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks everybody - I have been watching training for Rally OB , Someway - I got mixed up on the sit , stay , come with lead on = DUH !

Will try and do a video today - I think he does pretty good over all . We have worked together for a few years now and if he does wrong - then that is the trainers fault = me We have worked on most of the moves like a 270 - left , right . Sit & down with a walk around , 180's both directions , figure 8's . I just have to figure out to set up the camera to do it , nothing fancy here like the equipment that some has on here

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-05-2020, 04:56 PM
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His dad's a jokester sooo, I mean, what do you expect?
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-08-2020, 08:32 PM
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Should not be training for distance yet. Learn "leave it" Gradually increase your distance away. But if it can't be done short, it sure isn't going to happen long. Everyone gets in a hurry for long and that is where the problems start. Don't reinforce bad behavior where you have absolutely no control.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Sandy - Good to see you on here . Check out the tread I started - Fitz and Cressrb - No jokes about my knee I hurt the other day lol
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-10-2020, 12:35 AM
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Been busy. Kids went to Phoenix for the Arizona National. I ended up going down to Bennett because Jodie was sick with flu and I helped her with chores. That was pretty much holiday vacation. Got home on the 1st and went to work on the 2nd. Getting ready for the National Western next week. Then a break until they buy animals for next season. I think some of their ewes are starting to lamb next week also. Been quiet on show season. SE has a severe pulled groin muscle and she is rehabbing. These dogs are so stoic. Have had issues with her for a long time but she was never lame. But she was just shutting down on me. After my reg vet and the chiropractor, I decided to take her to CSU and they found it under ultrasound. She has been on leash activity only and she and I are both going crazy. Follow up appointment is end of January IF we make til then. LOL
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-10-2020, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy2233 View Post
Been busy. Kids went to Phoenix for the Arizona National. I ended up going down to Bennett because Jodie was sick with flu and I helped her with chores. That was pretty much holiday vacation. Got home on the 1st and went to work on the 2nd. Getting ready for the National Western next week. Then a break until they buy animals for next season. I think some of their ewes are starting to lamb next week also. Been quiet on show season. SE has a severe pulled groin muscle and she is rehabbing. These dogs are so stoic. Have had issues with her for a long time but she was never lame. But she was just shutting down on me. After my reg vet and the chiropractor, I decided to take her to CSU and they found it under ultrasound. She has been on leash activity only and she and I are both going crazy. Follow up appointment is end of January IF we make til then. LOL
Sorry admins. This should have been a quote to ECIN instead of a quick reply.

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