Dobie stealing and shredding everything can get her mouth on - Page 3 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #51 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostika View Post
I guess I misread your post.
I really love my dogs, I spend as much time I can with them etc. but I cannot tolerate clinging not from my kids my hubby or my dogs. I feel we ALL need our personal space. I love the fact my dogs are all crate trained. They actually love their crate and like I said even the door wide open they sleep in it. After the crazy couch incident I stopped feeling bad locking his little rear end in the crate. ( I got unused to having such a fragile puppy after my newfs who at 6 month weigh more than an adult dobie) but, I don’t regret it at all.. it’s pretty amazing to know I can leave the house and not come back to a torn couch or remote and don’t have to do a 24/7 watch to make sure he didn’t swallow some stuff.
Aside the crate he has a spot for his bed and usually sleeps there during the day. He now asks out if he has to go potty which I’m very please with. Opposed to my Newfs he is a sponge when it comes to learning.

As for the digging on the yard. It’s channeling energy in my opinion and it is harmless, in the past +20 years of owning dogs all my dogs were diggers and non draw blood or became aggressive. Perhaps if you love your garden and have flower or crops.... it’s a different story. We bought a house with a bigger yard for the dogs only. I cut grass and that’s it for me being outside.
So I’m consistent that my dogs can dig and run or collect leaves or branches on my yard, or my dobie dragging the water lilies out the creek. It’s their place and their place for a little freedom.


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Crates are great! I would (and do!) crate. My point, I suppose, was simply - supervision (and management). Puppies can't destroy what they can't access

For diggers - I'm a fan of creating a digging area especially for your dog. Mine aren't diggers, but I have a lot of friends with terriers who like to dig. Quite a few have created sandboxes especially for their dogs and simply trained them to dig only in "their" sandbox. They often hide toys or treats in their dogs sandbox for them, to encourage their digging. The dogs love it! Digging is natural for dogs and giving them an outlet is great. There are some good Facebook groups on Canine Enrichment you can join if you want to see some really creative ideas on that (and other really great ideas). If mine were diggers I'd absolutely give them a place to do it - the more you can give them an outlet for their activities, the better.
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post #52 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Crates are great! I would (and do!) crate. My point, I suppose, was simply - supervision (and management). Puppies can't destroy what they can't access



For diggers - I'm a fan of creating a digging area especially for your dog. Mine aren't diggers, but I have a lot of friends with terriers who like to dig. Quite a few have created sandboxes especially for their dogs and simply trained them to dig only in "their" sandbox. They often hide toys or treats in their dogs sandbox for them, to encourage their digging. The dogs love it! Digging is natural for dogs and giving them an outlet is great. There are some good Facebook groups on Canine Enrichment you can join if you want to see some really creative ideas on that (and other really great ideas). If mine were diggers I'd absolutely give them a place to do it - the more you can give them an outlet for their activities, the better.


I don’t think my dogs could tell the difference between a sandbox or the yard. I live in Florida my entire yard is a sandbox
I think this is one of the reason they love to dig here. In Cali it was harder with the clay and didn’t dig as much, I’d say it was mostly the girls right before coming into season.

But love the idea of hiding treats and encourage them to dig in certain spots.

Thank you


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post #53 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Ok this is all great input.

This girl looks very much like a large adult looking thing now she is no little pup, and I do know a lot of these basics... She is crate-trained, housetrained, she is not allowed to be rude or demanding, she is used to being alone, she has a good recall which I attribute mainly to being a clingy Doberman vs my great training skills lol lol.... so a lot of things are coming together.. and yet!

I think that you guys calling attention to the fact that anything she gets away with now such as chewing my stuff which is of course very unwanted and also dangerous for her gut, might become an irreversible habit if I don’t micromanage even more than I was before. Anything she gets away with because I am not 100% aware. That sunk in. So it sucks for her she is doing more crate time unless I am able to focus on her at least 95% in the house which was already the case because she has to have her mouth on EVERYTHING, and just makes actual circles and laps looking for stuff to put in her mouth, my stuff, even she has toys around... it’s getting better but still the behavior is there.. And outside the house which of course I was watching her constantly to make sure she didn’t eat things etc. but not full on micromanaging to really TEACH her. NOt just reprimand when she does a naughty thing. That is what you guys instilled that is making the bulb over my head light up. I am doing some tethering and just really fully with her more, even before we were in the same room and I was not as “with” her as I am now after your guidance. I don’t want irreversible bad habits to set in esp pica...

And yes I am ordering that book When Pigs Fly!

I love how she is trainable. My last one was not so much outside of a few basic commands, we loved him insanely but he was just so intense, so dog aggressive, so willful... He wasn’t stupid because when you think about it he got his way and we didn’t, as Charlie Sheen would say: “winning” (him not us).

It’s very inspiring to have a receptive sharp mind to work with and some degree of really naturally wanting to please me already there. My last Dobe ran us around like there was no tomorrow we were his little slaves lol. He was affectionate but kind of a monster. We spoiled him way too much but it’s not like we weren’t also trying really hard to crack the puzzle. But maybe in the hands of a truly good trainer who understands this kind of dog, a high drive Dobe, things would have been different with him. We dealt with it until he died at 9 yo.

Last edited by Critter’s mom; 07-02-2019 at 12:19 PM.
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post #54 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 01:27 PM
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In addition to telling her NO for stuff she gets ahold of you don't want her to, you should also (specifically) give her an alternative toy/activity at the same time. "NO, don't chew on that sock; here is something you CAN chew on!"

I haven't looked back over this thread, but if no one has recommended it yet, do teach her a "drop it" or "leave it" command. Basically you start to teach that as a trading transaction with a more desirable reward than the forbidden thing she's after. That sorta ties in with the above "here's something you can have instead."
https://www.petexpertise.com/teachin...-and-leave-it/

It sounds like you're on the right track...some dobes are just more exasperating to live with than others.
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post #55 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 01:51 PM
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Yeah CM

What Mel said : "Drop it" and "Leave it" are very necessary commands for a dog like you, mel and I have owned. Dogs that have no ability to refrain from ingesting detritus on their own.

In fact both... As they are used in different situations. Drop it, when the pup already has something in its mouth that it shouldn't have. Leave it, when you anticipate the pup is about to dive bomb something that it shouldn't.

Without exaggeration, I use both these commands dozen's of time a day on McCoys many daily walks. the are invaluable.

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post #56 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Ok thanks guys, a quick how to on the drop it command? I have been replacing the forbidden items with an acceptable one like a chewy or toy but not all the time, so I will up the consistency on that. She is totally getting it though she is so smart!!!!

My GSD came to me at 3 with that command drop it already instilled, she knows “out” and she will reluctantly drop the item. She is the kind of dog who always has to have something she is carrying in her mouth like a trophy, a toy or a branch etc. It had to do with the way she was trained, they use toys to bring up the drive for competition. She only got out of her crate like one or two hours a day for training back when she was with her original owner/breeder/ trainer. It has caused an obsession with toys and always having one in her mouth, but at least she knows “out”.

I’m so happy the two girls are getting along nicely, I was worried Onyx would kill Layla over toy possessiveness but in actuality she is just so happy to have a canine friend. I don’t let them be around toys loose at the same time in the house tho, in tight quarters it could lead to a real fight after awhile. Outside they use the toys to play tug of war and chase, which Onyx loves and Layla does get bored with after awhile. Onyx loves it because Onyx always wins. Lol. Kind of like the little kid you played with when you were a kid and they always got to decide what you played and they always got the best doll or truck or...

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post #57 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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Oh Ok I see Melbrod already left a link for the drop it and leave it training, thankyou Melbrod!
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post #58 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 02:19 PM
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I highly, highly recommend a good class with a good trainer! Even when you already "know" how to train, it's so helpful to have someone watching to help brush up on skills, see where you might be needing help with timing, brainstorm when you need a different approach...

My trainer are SOOOO valuable to me! They are fabulous resources and I couldn't do without them. I'd start here to look at trainers/training classes: https://www.ccpdt.org/dog-owners/cer...ner-directory/
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post #59 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
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I highly, highly recommend a good class with a good trainer! Even when you already "know" how to train, it's so helpful to have someone watching to help brush up on skills, see where you might be needing help with timing, brainstorm when you need a different approach...

My trainer are SOOOO valuable to me! They are fabulous resources and I couldn't do without them. I'd start here to look at trainers/training classes: https://www.ccpdt.org/dog-owners/cer...ner-directory/
Ok that is really helpful. I had a couple of trainers in mind who have some kind of name in my town but i didn’t really know how great they really are (or aren’t). They are just more high profile in that people know about them and it’s easy to see their cards and advertisements

I was able to find one person on your certified trainer directory, close by, who I did not know about so I will check her out!
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post #60 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Hey Dobe advisors, I’m back

So remember one of you guys advised to be careful of toys with the new now 8 month old Dobe girl and my older GSD girl. I replied that outdoors the older dog’s favorite game is tug of war with another dog, so I will leave toys for that, and indoors I don’t allow any toys out if both girls are out of their crates, which they seldom are for long because the Dobe is still such a big baby pest at 8 months old she wants to climb over the GSD on the couch and wrestle and play fight so to save the GSD from the annoyance I let them take turns with limited time out together indoors.

The GSD has been INCREDIBLY tolerant of the Dobe, for months now. If anything it almost looks like she is letting herself be subordinated to big baby PIA Layla, but in my heart of hearts I have known that Onyx could kick the ____ out of Layla and probably always will be able to— she’s huge and very dense weight. She has inadvertently pinned me snuggling on the couch and she is so heavy I would not be able to get up if she didn’t want me to. I push her back and make sure she stays off me. Fortunately with humans she was taught by her original owner/breeder/trainer to know her place and lives in DREAD of displeasing me, seriously she is hyper vigilant/worried about upsetting her person round the clock.. lucky for me she has no clue that if she were to turn on me I’d be mince meat. I make sure to enforce my alpha-ness daily but it’s so instilled in her from before I got her, it’s not a worry. But she has always been an alpha bitch and a pretty edgy one with some dogs, so she has been being very VERY patient w Layla, saint-like patience for Onyx.

Onyx’s Achilles heel is that she was left crated 22 to 24 hours a day except for training, w previous breeder/owner/trainer and when she would get out, a toy was used to bring up her drive for the training. So she has a true obsession with having something in her mouth most of the time: ball, toy, stick.. something.. and with toys in general. Still she has been sharing toys and playing games with them with Layla for months now, no problem.. As I said tug of war and chase for toy is Onyx’s favorite game and they will do it for hours.

So I got this more fancy deluxe toy specifically for them to play tug of war. I guess it had more bling than usual because it was the first thing Onyx ever challenged Layla on. She didn’t want to share it. An unexpected very brief show of force from Onyx and some yelping from Layla, and I took it away immediately. After some days had passed I left it out so it would lose it’s novelty and become boring. SO now the thing has been laying around the house, and sometimes in Onyx’s crate. Trying to think if it was even laying around the yard for days.. I think it was, so it’s been out there for them both. I suppose in hindsight Onyx was actually still guarding it..

So they went out at night to potty (they are usually indoors by then unless a bathroom break), I am on the porch, when suddenly all hell breaks loose. They start seriously fighting. Onyx had taken the toy out of her crate earlier and I suspect it was that. She would not listen to me to stop fighting so I started heading to the hose, but eventually I was able to let Layla in who was very traumatized but essentially unhurt, a tiny speck of blood on her ear and leg, little bit faint scratches. After a bit I let Onyx in— she had the toy and brought to her crate. This morning I took it away, I should have taken it away right away.

Onyx was still making eyes at her, not acting herself, from her crate. Layla was nearly inconsolable and just very forlorn and droopy, so I left Onyx crated and comforted Layla. Today they are slowly snapping out of it, but I will not let them out at the same time until they look 200% normalized.

I know this post is getting long, but I wanted you to know they are best friends, Onyx really loves having Layla in her life, Layla is so into Onyx the first thing she does is go to her crate when she is let out in the morning so I will let Onyx out next.

I know dogs need to establish the pecking order and Onyx has been real patient to the point of putting up with a lot of annoyance form the giant baby in a big body (there is only so much I can do to buffer that if they are to adjust to eachother and “work it out”).

How would you now proceed with these two? They play in the yard for hours every day. We go on a hike together twice a day and they love it.. but I feel I should keep them separate until their body language with eachother is 100 % normal. I do hear stories of some dogs never making up after a serious fight ( Layla didn’t fight she just yelped and wanted to get away I think). I know both being girls is not a plus, but I just didn’t want another potentially super dog aggressive male Dobe like my last one (who Onyx was afraid of for awhile)— the males can be more like that.

The fact that Layla was almost unscathed after what seemed a horrifying eternity of serious fighting in the dark that I was trying to break up, seems to indicate that Onyx did not want to really hurt her. She could have really hurt her if she wanted to

I think these guys like eachother enough they will snap back from it just wondering how you guys would proceed.

Btw I do manage these guys constantly, trying to be skillful in helping them adjust to eachother. I don’t just leave them do whatever unsupervised, the dynamic between them is fairly micro-managed to some degree since Layla is still the new kid on the block.. just was not expecting that. I may not let them out to potty in the dark together anymore based on this experience, even with the porch light on I couldn’t see very well what the heck was going on. If it had been day time I may have seen something subtle leading up to it and avoided the whole thing

PS I guess this could be a new thread but it’s nice to hear from the same group who have been advising me about Layla from the get go

Last edited by Critter’s mom; 07-17-2019 at 02:37 PM.
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post #61 of 61 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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