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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
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Pretty much heartbroken :(

Hi guys
I'm sorry for the long post in advance,but I'm completely heartbroken,sad and just came her to rant.So as a lot of you know my girl came to me pretty traumatized and completely unsocialized at the age of 4 months.We made a ton of progress,but still battle with many problems.I contacted behaviourist and we worked and she gave me some wonderful advice.I thought things were getting better,she became better with people and has 5-6 doggy friends with whom she romps around every weekend.We do NILF,she has to act nice and calm before she gets anything she wants,throughout a day she gets one good fetch session and a good basic obedience session so I really do about 3hrs with her everyday both mental and physical stimulation.About a month ago my girl was attacked by a bigger dog,my girl was leashed and just stood there and cried while this dog attampted to maul her.After that incident my girl is even more tense with dogs while leashed than before,she reacts out of fear and lunges and goes crazy for the other dog,I usually take her out of the situation,but today the other dog was not leashed and did not respond to its owner so my girl went crazy for the other dog and when she couldn't reach him she first chewed her leash and then bit me on my thigh and left bruising,it was redirected aggression.I don't know what to do anymore,she never ever showed aggression towards me prior this,I can take anything from her mouth,do whatever I want.To get bitten by her is one thing I never saw coming,does she think she is the dominant one? I read that somewhere in connection with redirected aggression.I will contact my behaviourist tomorrow,I really have a ton of patience and will to work through her issues but this just depressed me.She's great with dogs off leash,she reacts on leash (probably out of fear).
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:11 PM
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Im sorry you are going through this How old is she now? Most dogs go through a second fear period around 10-14 months old. Where were you when this off leash dog came in?

Im glad you have a behaviourist, they are the nest resource for these sensitive behaviours. Just remember, youre going to have ups and downs when it comes to fear related problems. This may even be a 'quirk' that you are going to have to work with for the rest of her life.

With Dog-dog aggression/fear it should be your uttermost priority to protect your dog.
1. Carry a stick, treats, or repellent spray to deter off leash dogs (I actually had to connect with a bullmastiff in the chest to avoid it from mauling my 14 year old lab)
2. Avoid areas that are known to have off leash dogs
3. She sounds young, pick her up if a dog approaches her that you are unfamiliar with to avoid possible fights.
4. Work within her threshold to help her overcome or learn to handle this fear.

The re directed bite was not dominance. She had no idea who or what she connected with.
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Im sorry you are going through this How old is she now? Most dogs go through a second fear period around 10-14 months old. Where were you when this off leash dog came in?

Im glad you have a behaviourist, they are the nest resource for these sensitive behaviours. Just remember, youre going to have ups and downs when it comes to fear related problems. This may even be a 'quirk' that you are going to have to work with for the rest of her life.

With Dog-dog aggression/fear it should be your uttermost priority to protect your dog.
1. Carry a stick, treats, or repellent spray to deter off leash dogs (I actually had to connect with a bullmastiff in the chest to avoid it from mauling my 14 year old lab)
2. Avoid areas that are known to have off leash dogs
3. She sounds young, pick her up if a dog approaches her that you are unfamiliar with to avoid possible fights.
4. Work within her threshold to help her overcome or learn to handle this fear.

The re directed bite was not dominance. She had no idea who or what she connected with.
Thank you so much for your response and for even reading the whole post.
She will be 18 months in a week.
We were strolling around neighbourhood when the incident occured.People here don't really have good manners regarding walking their dogs so unfortunately there are many dogs walking off leash when they really should be leashed.
Working with her was always hard,that's for sure,but redirected aggression worries me the most,this is the second time she did it and that's probably worst thing in my eyes because it was directed at me (probably not intentionally but still is discouraging).
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 06:26 PM
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I got a redirected bite/scratch twice, and I can assure you she had no idea. When they are under attack they are basically blindly fighting for their life - they will go after anything that moves or is in biting range. If they figure out that it is you they are biting in mid-bite they are crushed, they feel terrible. Usually though they are so out of their mind with fear that they have no idea what is going on until well after it is all over.
Unfortunately once they have these fears it seems like they almost give off these adversarial vibes that attract more issues. Carrying something to defend her is strongly recommended. I've heard of antidog spray, but a bat is not unreasonable if someone's dog is loose and attacking your dog. That person should not have been calling their dog and surprised it didn't respond, they should have come at a full run to get their dog dog. They deserve the potential bite they might get when they bodily remove their dog from the situation.
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 03:05 AM Thread Starter
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I got a redirected bite/scratch twice, and I can assure you she had no idea. When they are under attack they are basically blindly fighting for their life - they will go after anything that moves or is in biting range. If they figure out that it is you they are biting in mid-bite they are crushed, they feel terrible. Usually though they are so out of their mind with fear that they have no idea what is going on until well after it is all over.
Unfortunately once they have these fears it seems like they almost give off these adversarial vibes that attract more issues. Carrying something to defend her is strongly recommended. I've heard of antidog spray, but a bat is not unreasonable if someone's dog is loose and attacking your dog. That person should not have been calling their dog and surprised it didn't respond, they should have come at a full run to get their dog dog. They deserve the potential bite they might get when they bodily remove their dog from the situation.
Thank you for your answer. The only logical thought for me is that she wasn't aware she bit me, because I really don't believe she would ever do that in normal circumstances or on puropose. Though she didn't seem that much out of her mind, but that's probably just me overthinking and overreacting.
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 11:08 AM
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Redirected aggression in highly reactive and anxious dogs isn't totally uncommon. Your dog's fight or flight mechanism was activated; she wasn't able to direct her "fight" response to the appropriate target and so she turned to the nearest target she could reach: you.

I think you are now seeing that you are in a position of owning a dog that needs a LOT of special care. I've said this before - you MUST step up your game with her. She's bitten, she's been in several bad situations, and she's just hitting maturity. If you want to continue keeping her and you safe, you absolutely MUST set her up to succeed! Train her to happily wear a basket muzzle out in public! That will prevent her from biting. If she's stressed when out in public, consider buying a treadmill and training her to use that for exercise instead. Or, if you want to continue walking her, start carrying some kind of spray deterrent. If you can get the citronella spray that is not harmful (it's called Spray Shield), that usually works to defer a charging off leash dog) I would recommend that, but if you can't, pepper spray is a good idea, or a walking stick, or something you can use to stop a dog that is charging you. You MUST prevent other dogs from getting at her, because every single incident is going to escalate her reactivity.

I don't mean to be harsh or make you feel bad, but I've owned a dog like this. I know what it's like. But I also see that you want to continue treating her like she doesn't have these issues, and things are going to get worse for her (and for you) if you don't make serious changes for her.
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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Redirected aggression in highly reactive and anxious dogs isn't totally uncommon. Your dog's fight or flight mechanism was activated; she wasn't able to direct her "fight" response to the appropriate target and so she turned to the nearest target she could reach: you.

I think you are now seeing that you are in a position of owning a dog that needs a LOT of special care. I've said this before - you MUST step up your game with her. She's bitten, she's been in several bad situations, and she's just hitting maturity. If you want to continue keeping her and you safe, you absolutely MUST set her up to succeed! Train her to happily wear a basket muzzle out in public! That will prevent her from biting. If she's stressed when out in public, consider buying a treadmill and training her to use that for exercise instead. Or, if you want to continue walking her, start carrying some kind of spray deterrent. If you can get the citronella spray that is not harmful (it's called Spray Shield), that usually works to defer a charging off leash dog) I would recommend that, but if you can't, pepper spray is a good idea, or a walking stick, or something you can use to stop a dog that is charging you. You MUST prevent other dogs from getting at her, because every single incident is going to escalate her reactivity.

I don't mean to be harsh or make you feel bad, but I've owned a dog like this. I know what it's like. But I also see that you want to continue treating her like she doesn't have these issues, and things are going to get worse for her (and for you) if you don't make serious changes for her.
Thank you for your response and I completely agree with you, she does require a lot of special care and I definitely will have to step up my game in order for her to succeed. I'm pretty determined to make it work. I'm starting to work with my behaviourist again so hopefully she will have some guidance for us when seeing situations from the first hand.You didn't sound harsh at all, not all dogs are social butterflies and a lot of them just don't turn out the way we expected, but that's fine.I see a lot of work ahead of us, but I also see a great opportunity for me to learn and be a better owner in the future. After all every dog is a lesson.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 07:26 PM
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I get so PO'd at threads like this.

How is it that, it always seems, the owner of the unleashed dog doesn't get held accountable?

I have to back off. I am mad for you, Kira.
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 09:16 PM
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I get so PO'd at threads like this.

How is it that, it always seems, the owner of the unleashed dog doesn't get held accountable?

I have to back off. I am mad for you, Kira.
Leash laws just aren't enforced, ever. Possibly even less so where the OP lives, which is not in the US. Between random unleashed dogs walking in parks, dogs loose in front yards, dogs blowing through invisible fences...I've come to accept this is just the way it is. To be fair, many of those dogs are not aggressive, though many are, or are at least unfriendly. I think everyone should be prepared for off-leash dogs everywhere you are - it's just a fact of life. My two dogs are very social; Richter, in fact, is not only very social, but really good with even dogs that dislike a lot of dogs - he has a knack for getting along with dogs who are picky about who they like. Even so, I don't let them interact with dogs charging at us off leash in those situations (naturally) and I don't hesitate to step in and spray a charging dog who is either alone, or ignoring their owner. I have sprayed a Yorkie right in front of their owner when it ignored repeated commands to "come" and was continuing to charge at Richter. I didn't care that it was tiny - I absolutely will NOT take the chance of a rude or aggressive dog ruining my dogs' lovely temperaments. I carry Spray Shield when I walk, I step in front of my dogs - I am my dogs' advocate. It's MY job to make sure they aren't in a situation if at all possible, and I will do everything in my power to prevent it.
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 09:33 PM
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i had to vent. Thanks.
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 09:38 PM
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i had to vent. Thanks.
TOTALLY get it. One of my biggest pet peeves. I understand that sometimes mistakes happen, but for the most part people just don't care and they don't try.
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 03:17 AM Thread Starter
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I get so PO'd at threads like this.

How is it that, it always seems, the owner of the unleashed dog doesn't get held accountable?

I have to back off. I am mad for you, Kira.


Yeah, it's so frustrating having to deal with it every single day and it makes me so mad at times. People here are downright ignorant and let their dogs off leash eventhough they are aware their dogs have aggressive tendencies and to make it even worse they have little to none control. Leash laws here (I live in Croatia) are not enforced and that's the biggest issue. I "love" it when people think their dog should just romp around loose because hey, he just wants to play with everyone.:tired_face:
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 03:24 AM Thread Starter
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Not to make it all so negative, here's today pics of my girl, she thinks she's a lap dog
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 07:44 PM
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AWWW!

redrum!

What's your longitude and latitude?



I am being ornery.

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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 08:47 AM
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My female was very similar -- would attack other dogs, but sweet as a peach to any human (even little kids coming up and "petting" (hitting) her). She would NEVER hurt a human ... until the time she went after our other dog, and I stepped forward to tell them to knock it off and she bit through my jeans. I was bruised for weeks. The point is that she had a dominant (anxious) personality, but she was always responsive to me, and that didn't change after she bit me. Like others have said, the redirection is instinct, not intention. You should definitely muzzle train her and work on burning her energy before taking her out. If a treadmill doesn't work (my girl LOVED her treadmill time!) you could do scent work inside your home to burn off some energy before taking her on her walks. There are some good videos on-line that show you have to start. Good luck!
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 11:16 AM
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Hello. First, im sorry you are going through all that. Its always hard with traumatized dogs. I wouldn't worry about the biting, assuming that she isn't normally aggressive towards you. Dogs have a survival instinct that causes them to bite at things when they feel threatened, its likely she had no idea what she was doing. Don't give up! this might have been a small step backwards, but its important to keep moving forwards (which it sounds like you are doing). Hope this helps!
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 06:46 AM Thread Starter
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My female was very similar -- would attack other dogs, but sweet as a peach to any human (even little kids coming up and "petting" (hitting) her). She would NEVER hurt a human ... until the time she went after our other dog, and I stepped forward to tell them to knock it off and she bit through my jeans. I was bruised for weeks. The point is that she had a dominant (anxious) personality, but she was always responsive to me, and that didn't change after she bit me. Like others have said, the redirection is instinct, not intention. You should definitely muzzle train her and work on burning her energy before taking her out. If a treadmill doesn't work (my girl LOVED her treadmill time!) you could do scent work inside your home to burn off some energy before taking her on her walks. There are some good videos on-line that show you have to start. Good luck!
Thank you so much for your answer,that pretty much describes my girl,except for the fact that she is fearful of strangers.She was always and still is responsive to me and everyone in my family.I understand that redirection is not intention and that she is not aware of who she is bitting,she often redirects to her leash or a tree or anything near without even thinking.While we wait our behaviourist,I manage situations and supervise to intervene before it escalates.Thank you once again:blush:
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 06:56 AM Thread Starter
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Hello. First, im sorry you are going through all that. Its always hard with traumatized dogs. I wouldn't worry about the biting, assuming that she isn't normally aggressive towards you. Dogs have a survival instinct that causes them to bite at things when they feel threatened, its likely she had no idea what she was doing. Don't give up! this might have been a small step backwards, but its important to keep moving forwards (which it sounds like you are doing). Hope this helps!

Thank your for you response. Yes other than redirection she is never aggressive with me, I understand that she probably didn't realize what she was doing. I constantly manage and supervise her interaction with other dogs and work hard with her every day. I'm definitely not giving up, I also hope our behaviourist will help improve the situation. She was never an easy dog, but because of it I learn how to be a better owner. Thanks for encouragement:blush:
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Wow! I had a similar situation happen in 2012 when I went to Colorado for the UDC Nationals. I was staying with my Son and his family and the night before the show my grandson and I took Helio for a walk around town. Kian wanted to walk him and Helio was 18 months old. We walked all around town, people everywhere and Kian who was 12 at the time handled him with ease- in shops and out got less than a block from home and we're at the corner getting ready to cross the street to my son's house when out of no where a darn golden retriever came out of no where and jumped Helio. I screamed at Kian to drop the leash as Helio could not defend himself and I was afraid Kian would get bit. While all this was happening the owner appears and grabbed her dog and started to apologize. I was so mad I told her to drop dead that she was irresponsible and that her dog was dangerous. Apology was not good enough.

The hardest part was trying to calm down when I wanted to kill the other dog, but I had to think of Helio so we went on home and I checked him out and thank goodness nothing serious. But I was concerned about the next day with a lot of dogs around at the show. He did fine but I had done a lot of training with him and he is a pretty solid dog.

I would never walk a dog on a leash with a muzzle because if attacked they could not defend themselves. I would find people who have other dogs and start off slow. Have her on leash and just let her see the other dog at a distance. Have her sit and if she is calm then I would have the other dog (who is also on leash) come a little closer. If she starts to react have the other dog stop and just wait til she calms down and listens to you. Praise and treat her for sitting and focusing on you. Keep up the progression til she can tolerate the other dog 3 feet from her. You will probably have to work with several dogs over a period of time. If you can't protect her then don't take her to places where other dogs might be loose. It is sad when responsible folks can't walk their own dog because of the irresponsible idiots.

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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Dobs4ever View Post
Wow! I had a similar situation happen in 2012 when I went to Colorado for the UDC Nationals. I was staying with my Son and his family and the night before the show my grandson and I took Helio for a walk around town. Kian wanted to walk him and Helio was 18 months old. We walked all around town, people everywhere and Kian who was 12 at the time handled him with ease- in shops and out got less than a block from home and we're at the corner getting ready to cross the street to my son's house when out of no where a darn golden retriever came out of no where and jumped Helio. I screamed at Kian to drop the leash as Helio could not defend himself and I was afraid Kian would get bit. While all this was happening the owner appears and grabbed her dog and started to apologize. I was so mad I told her to drop dead that she was irresponsible and that her dog was dangerous. Apology was not good enough.

The hardest part was trying to calm down when I wanted to kill the other dog, but I had to think of Helio so we went on home and I checked him out and thank goodness nothing serious. But I was concerned about the next day with a lot of dogs around at the show. He did fine but I had done a lot of training with him and he is a pretty solid dog.

I would never walk a dog on a leash with a muzzle because if attacked they could not defend themselves. I would find people who have other dogs and start off slow. Have her on leash and just let her see the other dog at a distance. Have her sit and if she is calm then I would have the other dog (who is also on leash) come a little closer. If she starts to react have the other dog stop and just wait til she calms down and listens to you. Praise and treat her for sitting and focusing on you. Keep up the progression til she can tolerate the other dog 3 feet from her. You will probably have to work with several dogs over a period of time. If you can't protect her then don't take her to places where other dogs might be loose. It is sad when responsible folks can't walk their own dog because of the irresponsible idiots.
Bold mine. This dog has a history of biting people unprovoked, which is why I recommend walking her in a muzzle. This situation isn't the only one she's ever had with biting.


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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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Wow! I had a similar situation happen in 2012 when I went to Colorado for the UDC Nationals. I was staying with my Son and his family and the night before the show my grandson and I took Helio for a walk around town. Kian wanted to walk him and Helio was 18 months old. We walked all around town, people everywhere and Kian who was 12 at the time handled him with ease- in shops and out got less than a block from home and we're at the corner getting ready to cross the street to my son's house when out of no where a darn golden retriever came out of no where and jumped Helio. I screamed at Kian to drop the leash as Helio could not defend himself and I was afraid Kian would get bit. While all this was happening the owner appears and grabbed her dog and started to apologize. I was so mad I told her to drop dead that she was irresponsible and that her dog was dangerous. Apology was not good enough.

The hardest part was trying to calm down when I wanted to kill the other dog, but I had to think of Helio so we went on home and I checked him out and thank goodness nothing serious. But I was concerned about the next day with a lot of dogs around at the show. He did fine but I had done a lot of training with him and he is a pretty solid dog.

I would never walk a dog on a leash with a muzzle because if attacked they could not defend themselves. I would find people who have other dogs and start off slow. Have her on leash and just let her see the other dog at a distance. Have her sit and if she is calm then I would have the other dog (who is also on leash) come a little closer. If she starts to react have the other dog stop and just wait til she calms down and listens to you. Praise and treat her for sitting and focusing on you. Keep up the progression til she can tolerate the other dog 3 feet from her. You will probably have to work with several dogs over a period of time. If you can't protect her then don't take her to places where other dogs might be loose. It is sad when responsible folks can't walk their own dog because of the irresponsible idiots.
Bold mine. This dog has a history of biting people unprovoked, which is why I recommend walking her in a muzzle. This situation isn't the only one she's ever had with biting.
She only ever redirected to me, three times in total. Other than that she is with people every day without any issues. She is fear reactive to kids when leashed and we're working on it. But with all other dog owners here in neighbourhood whom she sees every weekend is great.
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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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Wow! I had a similar situation happen in 2012 when I went to Colorado for the UDC Nationals. I was staying with my Son and his family and the night before the show my grandson and I took Helio for a walk around town. Kian wanted to walk him and Helio was 18 months old. We walked all around town, people everywhere and Kian who was 12 at the time handled him with ease- in shops and out got less than a block from home and we're at the corner getting ready to cross the street to my son's house when out of no where a darn golden retriever came out of no where and jumped Helio. I screamed at Kian to drop the leash as Helio could not defend himself and I was afraid Kian would get bit. While all this was happening the owner appears and grabbed her dog and started to apologize. I was so mad I told her to drop dead that she was irresponsible and that her dog was dangerous. Apology was not good enough.

The hardest part was trying to calm down when I wanted to kill the other dog, but I had to think of Helio so we went on home and I checked him out and thank goodness nothing serious. But I was concerned about the next day with a lot of dogs around at the show. He did fine but I had done a lot of training with him and he is a pretty solid dog.

I would never walk a dog on a leash with a muzzle because if attacked they could not defend themselves. I would find people who have other dogs and start off slow. Have her on leash and just let her see the other dog at a distance. Have her sit and if she is calm then I would have the other dog (who is also on leash) come a little closer. If she starts to react have the other dog stop and just wait til she calms down and listens to you. Praise and treat her for sitting and focusing on you. Keep up the progression til she can tolerate the other dog 3 feet from her. You will probably have to work with several dogs over a period of time. If you can't protect her then don't take her to places where other dogs might be loose. It is sad when responsible folks can't walk their own dog because of the irresponsible idiots.
Thank you for your response, incidents like this are horrifying really,it can traumatise the dog for the rest of its life. Well my girl has 6-7 dogs with whom she plays every weekend and has no problem, on leash she is great with dogs that she knows. The biggest problem are dogs she doesn't know and they start running towards us,the owner usually says "my dog is friendly" but that still doesn't change the fact that my girl reacts out of fear. She also just has some dogs that she doesn't like. I'm very curious as to what the behaviourist will say, I'm guessing it's fear mixed with her anxious personality. Since the day we took her she was fearful,anxious and stressed with everything (probably due to no socialisation in the critical period). We managed to minimise it, but it still makes life a bit harder.
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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 10:23 AM
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(quote)Bold mine. This dog has a history of biting people unprovoked, which is why I recommend walking her in a muzzle. This situation isn't the only one she's ever had with biting. (Quote)

I understand MC and it sounds reasonable, but a dog on a leash and a dog off the leash makes the leashed dog a target. Now she is over reactive and with good reason. It is just a bum deal all the way around and there are no easy answers, but I am pretty sure if she was attacked again while muzzled it could end in death or serious injury to all concerned. If she has bite without provocation then I have not read those but my response would be the same as far as walking her in public where other dogs might be loose. You won't fix one problem by creating another. If children come to the house then yes I would muzzle her to protect the children but that is a different situation all together. I would never put a child at risk. I recommend finding a good Schutzhund trainer and have her evaluated by someone who actually knows these dogs. I do not think this can be fixed without some serious training help. Just too much at risk

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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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(quote)Bold mine. This dog has a history of biting people unprovoked, which is why I recommend walking her in a muzzle. This situation isn't the only one she's ever had with biting. (Quote)

I understand MC and it sounds reasonable, but a dog on a leash and a dog off the leash makes the leashed dog a target. Now she is over reactive and with good reason. It is just a bum deal all the way around and there are no easy answers, but I am pretty sure if she was attacked again while muzzled it could end in death or serious injury to all concerned. If she has bite without provocation then I have not read those but my response would be the same as far as walking her in public where other dogs might be loose. You won't fix one problem by creating another. If children come to the house then yes I would muzzle her to protect the children but that is a different situation all together. I would never put a child at risk. I recommend finding a good Schutzhund trainer and have her evaluated by someone who actually knows these dogs. I do not think this can be fixed without some serious training help. Just too much at risk
I agree with you,I'm not sure what MC meant when she said that Kira has bite without provocation, if she meant for redirected aggression then yes. Other than that we had a resource guarding issue with neighbour kid but she didn't bite and as I said when we are out on our walk she either ignores people or sniffs them and looks for food. She never bit anyone and she is around a lot of strangers often. With kids it's the different story, she usually tries to run away, but yes she was reactive a couple of times. In all situations kids were around 6-9 years old (my evaluation). And when looking at pics from her breeder he has a son about that age. Since she came to us terrified of absolutely everything she could have bad experience there, I'm not saying that kid hurt her or something, but since she was there for 4 months I'd definitely expect her not to be that scared of children.
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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 12:37 PM
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I agree with you,I'm not sure what MC meant when she said that Kira has bite without provocation, if she meant for redirected aggression then yes. Other than that we had a resource guarding issue with neighbour kid but she didn't bite and as I said when we are out on our walk she either ignores people or sniffs them and looks for food. She never bit anyone and she is around a lot of strangers often. With kids it's the different story, she usually tries to run away, but yes she was reactive a couple of times. In all situations kids were around 6-9 years old (my evaluation). And when looking at pics from her breeder he has a son about that age. Since she came to us terrified of absolutely everything she could have bad experience there, I'm not saying that kid hurt her or something, but since she was there for 4 months I'd definitely expect her not to be that scared of children.
Ok hopefully I am figuring out this quote thing.... What exactly does the breeder say??? Did you ask her if something happened??? It would have to be something pretty terrible to have a puppy behave that way at 4 months unless there is a serious character flaw which I suspect. What breeder would place a puppy with serious issues? They should fix the issue first before letting the puppy go. I would talk to the breeder for sure unless of course now they don't respond which is common with these fly by night breeders. Very sorry for both you and they dog.

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