5 month old growling over high value treats/chew - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
General Training & Obedience All training and obedience questions, tips, articles go here

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-20-2015, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
Lil Pup
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 12
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Dahws's Gallery
Thanks: 23
Thanked 22 Times in 7 Posts
   
5 month old growling over high value treats/chew

Hello everyone,

So I've read different posts and articles and such, but every situation is different and I figured I would get everyone's opinion here.

Some background:
-5 months old
-Just graduated beginner puppy classes and will take all the way through advanced and eventually CGC
-very friendly and sweet and mischievous ( which is expected with a toddler on four legs)
-constantly use NILF method for EVERYTHING
-~58lbs and growing. Cute little giant.

Sometimes when he eats he'll growl when my hand is in his bowl but that is on off and I am working on giving him food from my hand and trading it with other stuff, etc. That jazz is ok. What worries me is when I give him bully sticks which are high value for him. I can keep my hand on him by petting him and exchange for high value treats but the growling never stops. Or, today for instance, I ran out of his canidae food and I had to use his backup food until it comes in. When I agave him that he started acting like it was a bully stick.

I'm doing my best to keep everything positive and exchanging for high value etc but am wondering if there is anything else that I need to do and if this is worrisome. What should I be doing and what shouldn't I.

Just want to ensure this is stopped before he is growing any bigger and older than he is now.

Also want to mention that we brought in a 15 week old kitten who is cautious but warming up day by day. He just wants to play and she wants to take it slow.

P.S. We all like pictures, right? 5 month old growling over high value treats/chew-imageuploadedbytapatalk1448047283.619815.jpg
Dahws is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Dahws For This Useful Post:
Gretchen_Red (11-20-2015)
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-20-2015, 01:51 PM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,798
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 49,587
Thanked 63,830 Times in 17,073 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Jean Donaldson has a great book called, "Mine! A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs." I highly recommend it.

I'm also not really a fan of sticking my hands in dogs' food bowls...it's rather rude and can create resource guarding issue. Instead, I often walk by my dog's bowls and drop in extra tasty "additions" when they are eating, so they learn that when my hands approach their bowls something great is about to happen. Instead of creating a situation where my hands mean that I'm controlling their food or doing something weird, my hand is a predictor of yummy rewards. It's a method that works great around the food bowl. You can do something similar with higher value things - when he's chewing something high value, you approach and ADD something great, rather than trying to remove what he has. And when you play the "trading" game, you always teach it by trading him something better than what he has, and working up to trading equal value things, so you can eventually trade for a high value item, but only when you have to. You *don't* want to teach him that you'll always take away his great stuff, or he'll learn not to trust you when he has great stuff. It's the same concept as not using your recall word when you are doing something they won't like - don't call them and then end the fun, or call them when you are going to give a bath (if they hate baths), etc.

I would also use management, in this situation...when Richter has something high value, I let him enjoy it in peace and quiet in his crate, so he doesn't need to worry about guarding it.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT L1V L1E L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG DOG TKN WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is online now  
The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (11-20-2015), bigfootlives (11-20-2015), brw1982 (11-20-2015), Cressrb (11-20-2015), Dahws (11-21-2015), Dakotadobe (11-21-2015), dobebug (11-20-2015), Gretchen_Red (11-20-2015), LindaH (11-20-2015), melbrod (11-20-2015), Patches Mom (11-22-2015), Q734 (11-23-2015), rmagickd (11-20-2015), spocksdad (11-21-2015), triciakoontz (11-21-2015)
post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-20-2015, 01:58 PM
Alpha
 
Gretchen_Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,691
Location: Denver
Dogs Name: Maverick and Kya
Titles: GCH, BH, Dock Diving, Agility, Rally, and of course Supreme bed destroyer
Dogs Age: 4 years and 20mo
Gallery Pics: 14
Visit Gretchen_Red's Gallery
Thanks: 7,333
Thanked 6,173 Times in 2,366 Posts
Images: 14
                     
Handsome boy! Is he giving you a high five? Sure looks like it.

I have never put my hands in any of my dog's bowls, and I don't feel like it's necessary. I have also never taken a bone from their mouth for the purpose of training. Sure, at some point they will realize that you mean no harm but until then you could chance a nice bite. I have never done this and I've never owned a food possessive dog. I do teach "drop it" right away.

Even when we had 3 dogs, we just fed them in their own separate areas so that they were reassured the other dogs wouldn't take their food.

The only time we've ever had food aggressive dogs was on our farm. We would feed the stray dogs generic dog food and scraps in one bowl. They were all food aggressive because they had to be. They had to "fight" for that meal. None of our household dogs felt that way or reacted that way and I believe it's because they never had the need to be reactive because there was never a question of if someone was going to take their food.

I have no problem showing Gretchen's bite, I have pulled things straight out of her mouth, that were dangerous, and we haven't had any issues. I think that is also due to when they're puppies I mess with their ears, their feet, tail, face and mouth so they are always comfortable with me and the vet.

When Gretchen was a young puppy she would sometimes make a weird growling sound when she was chewing on things. It wasn't a mean growl almost like a purring growl she would make, that was in the same timing as her chewing. It almost sounded like she was saying "num, num, num, num". Maybe that's the case for your boy sometimes too?

Best of luck!
Gretchen_Red is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Gretchen_Red For This Useful Post:
Dahws (11-21-2015)
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-20-2015, 03:27 PM
Big Lil pup
 
4x4bike ped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,032
Location: Portland, OR
Dogs Name: Foxfire's The Real McCoy (McCoy)
Titles: Pet of the Year
Dogs Age: DOB 9/12/14
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit 4x4bike ped's Gallery
Thanks: 16,331
Thanked 14,729 Times in 4,966 Posts
Images: 9
                     
I have heard (actually read) that bully sticks are the one treat that dogs have a tendency to be very protective about. We don't feed bully sticks, rawhides, pigs ears and the like very often, because I feel they boys need constant supervision while eating these things. They can be demolished in a matter of minutes, leaving a piece small enough to swallow yet large enough to possibly get stuck in the intestines.

That being said. When I do give them each a pigs ear, for example, They fall all over each other trying to get each others. In a cute funny way. One will drop his, hoping to distract the other boy long enough to snag his chew. Or, try and play, to the same result.

If it's bully sticks, forget it. They go to separate corners. If McCoy gets too close to Sheriff, the teeth come out. They also tend to mess with their stomachs. My solution: No more bully sticks.

BTW, I have heard more than once, not to give a dog a bully stick with small kids around.

Edit: Although, My boys would not object, I would never put my hand in my boys' food bowl. Hey... eating is a very focused event, as it should be. Plus, I would hate for them to put their paws in my food. LOL

Last edited by 4x4bike ped; 11-20-2015 at 03:33 PM.
4x4bike ped is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 4x4bike ped For This Useful Post:
Dahws (11-21-2015), dobebug (11-20-2015), Q734 (11-23-2015)
post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-20-2015, 05:20 PM
Alpha
 
LindaH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,038
Dogs Name: Sunburg's Indian River Park "Parker"
Dogs Age: Born May 24, 2007
Gallery Pics: 25
Visit LindaH's Gallery
Thanks: 24,910
Thanked 24,138 Times in 9,829 Posts
Images: 25
                     
Using NILIF training on a puppy constantly bothers me. One can overtrain imo. I've done it years ago when I was about 15 or so and ended up with a dog that began to ignore my commands. Keep a balance and make sure this puppy has fun.

If you want to give him bully sticks, give them to him and leave him alone or don't give them at all. Same with food, keep your hands out of the food bowl. Let him eat in peace.

Get that book Meadowcat suggested and The Power of Positive Dog Training by Pat Miller.

All dogs deserve a good home

Subscribe to this newsletter first:
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/

How to select a good dog kibble
https://boxerworld.com/forums/pages/...-dry-dog-food/

Dog food information:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main

Diet additives and Raw diet information
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/index.html
LindaH is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to LindaH For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (11-20-2015), bigfootlives (11-20-2015), brw1982 (11-20-2015), Dahws (11-21-2015), dobebug (11-20-2015), GingerGunlock (11-23-2015), spocksdad (11-21-2015)
post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-21-2015, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
Lil Pup
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 12
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Dahws's Gallery
Thanks: 23
Thanked 22 Times in 7 Posts
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaH View Post
Using NILIF training on a puppy constantly bothers me. One can overtrain imo. I've done it years ago when I was about 15 or so and ended up with a dog that began to ignore my commands. Keep a balance and make sure this puppy has fun.

If you want to give him bully sticks, give them to him and leave him alone or don't give them at all. Same with food, keep your hands out of the food bowl. Let him eat in peace.

Get that book Meadowcat suggested and The Power of Positive Dog Training by Pat Miller.

So are you saying not to make him sit for his food all the time, and etc? What if a child comes around the dog when he's eating or chewing something and he bites him or her. That is the POV I've always thought of it from. Would you mind explaining a bit more?

I personally don't believe a puppy should be misbehaving. I think there's a place and time to have fun. I have a fenced in yard and he has a blast just being a dog.

Please let me know. Thanks everyone for the replies and advice!
Dahws is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Dahws For This Useful Post:
LindaH (11-21-2015)
post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-21-2015, 03:50 PM
Big Lil pup
 
4x4bike ped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,032
Location: Portland, OR
Dogs Name: Foxfire's The Real McCoy (McCoy)
Titles: Pet of the Year
Dogs Age: DOB 9/12/14
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit 4x4bike ped's Gallery
Thanks: 16,331
Thanked 14,729 Times in 4,966 Posts
Images: 9
                     
Personally, What I interpreted Linda's comment to mean was the need for balance. And I agree whole heartedly.

My youngest is just 14 months old and still very much a puppy. He is well trained, consistent in about 12 voice commands and about 6 hands only commands. But I don't use them to the extent that a hard core NILIF enthusiast might. Yes...In certain situations, in order to get their "reward" they must "pay the piper"

A good example would be feeding. It is a routine. When I am filling bowls, there is no whining, barking or running around. If there is I walk away. When I bring the bowls to where they are fed, they must sit and then I will put the food down. They must stay in a sit until given their release (either verbal or by hand signal). This streamlines the entire feeding procedure and... They LIKE it.

Conversely, I will often let McCoy just be a puppy. For example. I will be sitting in a chair on my lap top and mcCoy will want to play indoor ball/fetch. He will bring the ball up to me and continually drop it in my lap. I will push him away a few times, but usually give in and toss the ball for him in between key strokes.

There are some who would say that I am making a big mistake, that my puppy is "training" me. I say... I don't care in this instance. I pick my battles. and this does not happen to be one of them. So... Balance. JMO
4x4bike ped is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to 4x4bike ped For This Useful Post:
bigfootlives (11-21-2015), dobebug (11-21-2015), GingerGunlock (11-23-2015), LindaH (11-21-2015), MeadowCat (11-21-2015), vonBingen (11-21-2015)
post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-21-2015, 04:41 PM
Alpha
 
vonBingen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 531
Location: Tulsa, OK
Dogs Name: Hildegard, RIP 27JUN20
Dogs Age: Almost 8
Gallery Pics: 5
Visit vonBingen's Gallery
Thanks: 2,181
Thanked 1,549 Times in 426 Posts
Images: 5
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4bike ped View Post
Personally, What I interpreted Linda's comment to mean was the need for balance. And I agree whole heartedly.

My youngest is just 14 months old and still very much a puppy. He is well trained, consistent in about 12 voice commands and about 6 hands only commands. But I don't use them to the extent that a hard core NILIF enthusiast might. Yes...In certain situations, in order to get their "reward" they must "pay the piper"

A good example would be feeding. It is a routine. When I am filling bowls, there is no whining, barking or running around. If there is I walk away. When I bring the bowls to where they are fed, they must sit and then I will put the food down. They must stay in a sit until given their release (either verbal or by hand signal). This streamlines the entire feeding procedure and... They LIKE it.

Conversely, I will often let McCoy just be a puppy. For example. I will be sitting in a chair on my lap top and mcCoy will want to play indoor ball/fetch. He will bring the ball up to me and continually drop it in my lap. I will push him away a few times, but usually give in and toss the ball for him in between key strokes.

There are some who would say that I am making a big mistake, that my puppy is "training" me. I say... I don't care in this instance. I pick my battles. and this does not happen to be one of them. So... Balance. JMO
It's kind of like a child. You want them to be able to behave at key moments, but sometimes they just want to be silly. So you train the kids not to put their hands in a dog bowl but let them put a doll bonnet on the dog, if they dog will let them. Likewise, you train your dog to accept someone putting their hands in their bowls, but also let them hide in the corner with their favorite bone.
vonBingen is offline  
post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-21-2015, 04:42 PM
Alpha
 
vonBingen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 531
Location: Tulsa, OK
Dogs Name: Hildegard, RIP 27JUN20
Dogs Age: Almost 8
Gallery Pics: 5
Visit vonBingen's Gallery
Thanks: 2,181
Thanked 1,549 Times in 426 Posts
Images: 5
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by vonBingen View Post
It's kind of like a child. You want them to be able to behave at key moments, but sometimes they just want to be silly. So you train the kids not to put their hands in a dog bowl but let them put a doll bonnet on the dog, if they dog will let them. Likewise, you train your dog to accept someone putting their hands in their bowls, but also let them hide in the corner with their favorite bone.
Sorry, "teach" your children. Or whatever. I'm a military child who went into the military.
vonBingen is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to vonBingen For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (11-21-2015), GingerGunlock (11-23-2015), Gretchen_Red (11-21-2015)
post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-21-2015, 09:16 PM
Alpha
 
LindaH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,038
Dogs Name: Sunburg's Indian River Park "Parker"
Dogs Age: Born May 24, 2007
Gallery Pics: 25
Visit LindaH's Gallery
Thanks: 24,910
Thanked 24,138 Times in 9,829 Posts
Images: 25
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahws View Post
So are you saying not to make him sit for his food all the time, and etc? What if a child comes around the dog when he's eating or chewing something and he bites him or her. That is the POV I've always thought of it from. Would you mind explaining a bit more?

I personally don't believe a puppy should be misbehaving. I think there's a place and time to have fun. I have a fenced in yard and he has a blast just being a dog.

Please let me know. Thanks everyone for the replies and advice!

Your words, "constantly use NILF method for EVERYTHING*..." had me imagining a very regimented, strict routine with your puppy such as sitting before petting, before food, before coming in or going out the door, before receiving a toy, eating, before getting on furniture,(I don't see this being allowed) breathing, etc. Perhaps your not as strict as the wording sounded and I imagined. I mean you must have a balance of training and just being a carefree, relaxed, fun, I'm a puppy, I'm a puppy.

I'm more of a -puppies are going to misbehave because...well, they are puppies. Also, there is a place and time for obedience. I'm thinking if you're too struck for too long it's going to backfire with disobedience and a lot of it.

How long have you been doing NILIF training?

Also, the suggestions of how to change his perception of you being around the food bowl are great. He needs that much more than the hand in the bowl testing him. By the way, if he's growling over food, I would not be giving him high value chews that you know are going to cause a reaction until you get the food possessiveness sorted as you don't want to promote that "mine" feeling. If you want to let him have one, then give the chew to him in his crate where he can feel safe with it.

Trying to figure out how to word this without causing offense, but are you as strict with your children as you are with the puppy?

All dogs deserve a good home

Subscribe to this newsletter first:
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/

How to select a good dog kibble
https://boxerworld.com/forums/pages/...-dry-dog-food/

Dog food information:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main

Diet additives and Raw diet information
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/index.html

Last edited by LindaH; 11-21-2015 at 09:32 PM.
LindaH is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to LindaH For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (11-21-2015), bigfootlives (11-21-2015), MeadowCat (11-22-2015)
post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-21-2015, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
Lil Pup
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 12
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Dahws's Gallery
Thanks: 23
Thanked 22 Times in 7 Posts
   
5 month old growling over high value treats/chew

I'm worse with my kids. They aren't allowed to speak without my permission. They have to sit before anything and they only have 1 hour of television time per day.

As far the dog goes, I am not as intense as you thought I was. Haha. I think both of us would go crazy. He just graduated from beginner puppy classes and has started intermediate. #1 in his class. I don't have kids and the first paragraph was pure sarcasm. I hope you're not offended.
Dahws is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dahws For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (11-21-2015), LindaH (11-22-2015)
post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2015, 12:47 AM
Alpha
 
LindaH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,038
Dogs Name: Sunburg's Indian River Park "Parker"
Dogs Age: Born May 24, 2007
Gallery Pics: 25
Visit LindaH's Gallery
Thanks: 24,910
Thanked 24,138 Times in 9,829 Posts
Images: 25
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahws View Post
I'm worse with my kids. They aren't allowed to speak without my permission. They have to sit before anything and they only have 1 hour of television time per day.

As far the dog goes, I am not as intense as you thought I was. Haha. I think both of us would go crazy. He just graduated from beginner puppy classes and has started intermediate. #1 in his class. I don't have kids and the first paragraph was pure sarcasm. I hope you're not offended.

It was all John's fault!!! He said, " BTW, I have heard more than once, not to give a dog a bully stick with small kids around." And I thought, "Oh, I missed she had kids." Under the bus you go John! Then children were mentioned more, so I decided there were kids in the mix. Sorry, I should have double-checked.

That first paragraph I thought, "well, made her mad." LOL

It's just they are adult dogs for so long and puppies for just that short time period.

All dogs deserve a good home

Subscribe to this newsletter first:
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/

How to select a good dog kibble
https://boxerworld.com/forums/pages/...-dry-dog-food/

Dog food information:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main

Diet additives and Raw diet information
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/index.html

Last edited by LindaH; 11-22-2015 at 12:50 AM.
LindaH is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to LindaH For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (11-23-2015)
post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2015, 01:06 AM
Alpha
 
Patches Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,031
Dogs Name: Buddy & (Patches the Doxie RIP 2016)
Titles: Buddy CGC
Dogs Age: Buddy Doberman 10 years Old
Gallery Pics: 10
Visit Patches Mom's Gallery
Thanks: 2,496
Thanked 6,763 Times in 3,897 Posts
Images: 10
                     
Click here to find out how Patches Mom became a supporter
I feel like your problem may be going over board "constantly use NILF method for EVERYTHING " Back up sit down and really think about how you are doing it I use it the NILF maybe once a day or depending on what is going on twice a day some time s not at all. Another person said their dog did not even get a bite of food with out sitting or doing something for it over board. Imagine how the poor dog must feel, puppies are meant to be puppies I think if you back off a little your dog's attitude will get better.As far as a child coming up is this your child the children in the home must be taught to leave animals alone when they are eating they also need to have manners around dogs. I also agreed add a good treat to the bowl so the dog will not think you are taking his food away. Give them peace while they eat. Good Luck
Patches Mom is offline  
post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2015, 09:09 AM
Alpha
 
LindaH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,038
Dogs Name: Sunburg's Indian River Park "Parker"
Dogs Age: Born May 24, 2007
Gallery Pics: 25
Visit LindaH's Gallery
Thanks: 24,910
Thanked 24,138 Times in 9,829 Posts
Images: 25
                     
John...look what you've done!!!

All dogs deserve a good home

Subscribe to this newsletter first:
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/

How to select a good dog kibble
https://boxerworld.com/forums/pages/...-dry-dog-food/

Dog food information:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main

Diet additives and Raw diet information
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/index.html
LindaH is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to LindaH For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (11-23-2015)
post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2015, 11:40 PM
Alpha
 
Beaumont67's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 11,757
Location: St. Thomas, Ontario
Dogs Name: Kelly
Titles: CD Obedience & Therapy
Dogs Age: puppy
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Beaumont67's Gallery
Thanks: 62,037
Thanked 27,208 Times in 9,749 Posts
                     
I don't tolerate any form of early aggressive dobe growling, at a family member / unless its play growling, while we are occupied with a tug toy.
- if called for, a swift correction will be forth coming...under no if and's or butts
- the shock factor, is very powerful with low force / but takes confidence & good timing

I've seen large breed pups, that growled in the house, and one lady thought it was cute.
When the mastiff matured, she was jealous of the kids and wanted mom all to herself.
- once I bent over to pet its big head & it lunged up and clocked me in the side of the cheek, with its boney head
- it just missed breaking my nose & left me with the headache of a life time
Two months later, I was visiting & slightly bent over to bait it...Mastiff tried to hurt me again, and I clocked it in the rib cage, with a firm knee.
- 15 minutes later, lady said that her and I was the only 2 people in the world, that the dog would listen too
- but the dog was already drawing blood on the kids ankles, when they came home from elementary school
A month later, the expensive dog was euthanized, as Vet said it was the only safe option.
^^ I saw that Mastiff puppy first growl at my therapy dog Amy, during early socialization.
The mastiff was 4 months old and never corrected / age and maturity, only compounded the problem.

Out of 3 dobe puppies, our current girl Kelly would growl over her sucky blanket...her high value treat, and she was corrected for it.
At 5 months old, she once tried to harm our sons YorkiePoo Trevor / now they periodically nap together, can share food and toys.
I practice my own method of soft bite/muzzle control, starting from week1 home, with new puppy.
- Kelly has amazing & gentle control of her K9's teeth now / we can take anything away, if need be and pry her mouth open, at any time
- all my dogs, can even take half a peanut off my lips, with ease / and could care less, if I pet them while eating kibble or they have a marrow bone

+25 years ago, we had a lady babysitting our grade1 son after school.
Everything was going fine, until first week ended, I went to pickup our boy and heard her son cursing his mom:
- 6 year old boy, calling his Mom "a F###In B####" in the kitchen, in a yelling tone
Lady says, "Johnny - don't say that, you try and be nice".
I fired the adult baby sitter that night / and the little brat, also needed some form of corrective persuasion.

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

Last edited by Beaumont67; 11-23-2015 at 12:10 AM.
Beaumont67 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Beaumont67 For This Useful Post:
millerdobes (11-23-2015), ShelianDobe (11-25-2015)
post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-23-2015, 08:14 AM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,798
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C NW2 L2V ACT1 RATI WAC; Sypha: NW1 NW2 L1C L1V L1E RATI SOG WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 49,587
Thanked 63,830 Times in 17,073 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
I *strongly* disagree with correcting growling. What you do is take away the dog's communication that they are uncomfortable and may escalate to more serious actions, i.e. a bite. I would not ever punish a growl. Instead, I'd rather work on the issues causing growling.


DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA ORT L1E L1C NW2 L2V L2I ACT1 RATI SOG WAC
& Sirai's Golden Masquerade ORT L1V L1E L2C L2I NW2 RATI SOG DOG TKN WAC
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is online now  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
bigfootlives (11-23-2015), Bluedobie (11-23-2015), DoodleDobe (03-04-2019), GingerGunlock (11-23-2015), sgourle (11-23-2015), triciakoontz (11-23-2015)
post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-23-2015, 09:40 AM
Alpha
 
millerdobes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,198
Location: Tulsa, OK
Dogs Name: Madi
Titles: AKC CH, CGC, Utility, Obedience, Agility participates in Therapy.

Gallery Pics: 21
Visit millerdobes's Gallery
Thanks: 3,222
Thanked 1,834 Times in 742 Posts
Images: 21
                     
I think you have good advice but if it were my dog, first I wouldn't put my hand in the bowl everyday but when I did and he growled- I would take the bowl and do it again. If he attemped to bite, I would boob him on the nose lightly. I have had dogs for over 50 years and have never had a dog bite me. I've had a few do this and this is what I did. Not advising you to do it but it worked for me. My dogs just are not allowed to growl at me or tell me what I can't touch. I am the leader.

And the above post is right, it could cause aggression in some dogs so am not suggesting you do what I do but I can tell you we don't allow dogs to growl at us. If there is something we need to correct, we do that but still no growling. Growling allowed in my view can also lead to domance or aggression.

Last edited by millerdobes; 11-23-2015 at 09:43 AM.
millerdobes is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to millerdobes For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (11-23-2015)
post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-23-2015, 10:26 AM
Alpha
 
Gretchen_Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,691
Location: Denver
Dogs Name: Maverick and Kya
Titles: GCH, BH, Dock Diving, Agility, Rally, and of course Supreme bed destroyer
Dogs Age: 4 years and 20mo
Gallery Pics: 14
Visit Gretchen_Red's Gallery
Thanks: 7,333
Thanked 6,173 Times in 2,366 Posts
Images: 14
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerdobes View Post
I think you have good advice but if it were my dog, first I wouldn't put my hand in the bowl everyday but when I did and he growled- I would take the bowl and do it again. If he attemped to bite, I would boob him on the nose lightly. I have had dogs for over 50 years and have never had a dog bite me. I've had a few do this and this is what I did. Not advising you to do it but it worked for me. My dogs just are not allowed to growl at me or tell me what I can't touch. I am the leader.

And the above post is right, it could cause aggression in some dogs so am not suggesting you do what I do but I can tell you we don't allow dogs to growl at us. If there is something we need to correct, we do that but still no growling. Growling allowed in my view can also lead to domance or aggression.
I'm just not sure what putting your boob on his nose would do
Gretchen_Red is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Gretchen_Red For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (11-23-2015), Beaumont67 (11-23-2015), RMcIntyre (11-23-2015), ShelianDobe (11-25-2015), vonBingen (11-23-2015)
post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-23-2015, 12:00 PM
Alpha
 
RMcIntyre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 529
Location: Havana Florida
Dogs Name: CH Merrimac's Reflection v Brachmar GCH Merrimac's Mirage For Mi Casa (Mikki)

Gallery Pics: 6
Visit RMcIntyre's Gallery
Thanks: 608
Thanked 1,125 Times in 377 Posts
Images: 6
                     
as you can tell everyone has differing opinions on this. I do not allow growling, "it is the precursor to being bit". watch the body language. I do stick my hands in their food bowl. I do not allow food aggression. Feeding them in different areas is just avoidance. Do you avoid areas where there are loud noises because it might scare your dog? Or do you get your dog progressively accustomed to loud noises so that they don't scare them? Its all a matter of training. I just received dog that was supposedly food aggressive. about two weeks after getting him, he was eating out of the same bowl as one of the Shepherds. I feed them with separate bowls in the same room but not right next to each other. I pet them while they are eating, scratch their chest and neck. They relax because they like the attention and get used to hands near their food. I will take food out of their bowl and hand feed them. They love it. And I don't have to give negative correction. You want a hand shy dog? smack them in the face. If you have to do a negative correction you come under the chin. They never see the hand. Most of my dogs I have never had to do any negative correction. Mainly because they have such a high desire to please.


Reggie
RMcIntyre is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to RMcIntyre For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (11-23-2015)
post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-23-2015, 12:00 PM
Alpha
 
RMcIntyre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 529
Location: Havana Florida
Dogs Name: CH Merrimac's Reflection v Brachmar GCH Merrimac's Mirage For Mi Casa (Mikki)

Gallery Pics: 6
Visit RMcIntyre's Gallery
Thanks: 608
Thanked 1,125 Times in 377 Posts
Images: 6
                     
GR your too funny
RMcIntyre is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to RMcIntyre For This Useful Post:
4x4bike ped (11-23-2015)
post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-23-2015, 11:10 PM
Big Lil pup
 
4x4bike ped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,032
Location: Portland, OR
Dogs Name: Foxfire's The Real McCoy (McCoy)
Titles: Pet of the Year
Dogs Age: DOB 9/12/14
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit 4x4bike ped's Gallery
Thanks: 16,331
Thanked 14,729 Times in 4,966 Posts
Images: 9
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMcIntyre View Post
as you can tell everyone has differing opinions on this. I do not allow growling, "it is the precursor to being bit". watch the body language. I do stick my hands in their food bowl. I do not allow food aggression. Feeding them in different areas is just avoidance. Do you avoid areas where there are loud noises because it might scare your dog? Or do you get your dog progressively accustomed to loud noises so that they don't scare them? Its all a matter of training. I just received dog that was supposedly food aggressive. about two weeks after getting him, he was eating out of the same bowl as one of the Shepherds. I feed them with separate bowls in the same room but not right next to each other. I pet them while they are eating, scratch their chest and neck. They relax because they like the attention and get used to hands near their food. I will take food out of their bowl and hand feed them. They love it. And I don't have to give negative correction. You want a hand shy dog? smack them in the face. If you have to do a negative correction you come under the chin. They never see the hand. Most of my dogs I have never had to do any negative correction. Mainly because they have such a high desire to please.


Reggie
Reggie... Love your comment. Food aggression has never existed in my home.

Over decades my POV is : It is my food, your are lucky to get it. It almost becomes a game. I will say, however, once eating commences, their food is theirs. Side by side. IMO... consistency is what is important. They respect me and I respect them.

Growing.... I am with you. NO GROWLING. Over the years, I have become pretty adept at reading my dogs' body language. Tail, ears, withers, stance. I do not tolerate growling. I will accept "teeth out" under certain circumstances.

My youngest has a very strong possessive instinct. And he loves to play "tug".
When we play, even face to face, he can be as rough and tumble as he wants to be. But he may not growl. Hey.. not everyone would agree. It works for me and has worked very well out in public.
4x4bike ped is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 4x4bike ped For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (11-24-2015), RMcIntyre (11-24-2015)
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome